Raise your hands. How many here want to see Osama bin Laden....

[Aviation Pro]

....captured or killed?

Ok, then if you want that, as I do, what is your problem with President-elect Obama's strategy to shift forces from Iraq to Afghanistan?

[EFerrari]

1. Well, for one thing, he's not in Afghanistan.

And I don't favor assassination, no.

[Aviation Pro]

3. Yer right, he's in Waziristan, but the staging area....

...would be Afghanistan.

[EFerrari]

9. Thousands of troops will not capture bin Laden.

Using Afghanistan as a "staging area" for one more fruitless show of force is wrong in so many ways, it's a whole new flavor of wrong.

Afghanistan has to be de-militarized immediately. It needs law enforcement, peace keepers and nation builders. It doesn't need GIs. That would be the same stupid mistake we've made since the 60s and I don't know about you, but I'd at least like to make a new mistake, just for the variety.

Bin Laden will be betrayed by an insider if he doesn't croak first. He will not be captured by a battalion and pretending that a battalion is the answer to this is as wrongheaded as invading Iraq was.

[Aviation Pro]

35. Thousands of troops, clear command guidance, and superior field tactics....

...including logistics will crush the Taliban and give us the opportunity to capture or kill bin Laden.

[EFerrari]

40. I think that's already been tried in Afghanistan and it didn't work.

[Aviation Pro]

47. It did work then the Iraq thingy happened and both....

...al-Q and the Taliban were able to reconstitute.

[EFerrari]

56. Well, we never controlled much more than Kabul, did we?

Or, am I getting that wrong?

[Aviation Pro]

57. We had much more control during the period between....

...2002 - 2004. Again, as so many have pointed out, had we focused on finishing the job we would not be in the mess we are in right now.

Iraq fucked that up, and we are paying for it dearly now with the rapid destabilization of not just Afghanistan, but also Pakistan and India. That's why I support President-elect Obama's decision to shift forces to this region.

[DutchLiberal]

60. You really think we can shoot our way out of this?

[Aviation Pro]

69. It's supposed to be a layered strategy....

...not just shooting. Unfortunately, fake fucking cowboys and shitstains have been in charge of the country for the past eight years so we only got the yee-haw solution. That's why I'm confident that smart mofo President Barack Obama is doing the right thing because he's surrounded himself with other smart mofos.

[DutchLiberal]

71. The smart thing is to get the fuck outta there. Terorism can't be fought by...

the conventional military approach.

[bluestateguy]

2. Ideally, bin Laden should swing from a rope in Ground Zero in NYC

after that whole fair trial formality has taken place, of course.

[Subdivisions]

4. Oh?

bin laden stated two times that 9/11 was not his doing but you're welcome anyway.

[bluestateguy]

8. and OJ Simpson said he was innocent too

so there you have it.

[wildbilln864]

25. what evidence do you have he did it....

when the FBI has admitted they have no solid evidence he had anything to do with it? :shrug:

[Qibing Zero]

21. And what a lovely sight - just like Saddam, right?

To think we call ourselves a civilized society...

[alfredo]

5. Should it be done with a large occupying force?

[EFerrari]

11. It would be like invading California to catch the Zodiac killer.

How is that a good idea.

[alfredo]

16. North or south California? Gotta know how to dress.

[EFerrari]

17. Khaki is the safer bet. Easier to accessorize.

You could pass for a tourist even in the urban centers and what invading force wouldn't enjoy such an advantage?

lol

[alfredo]

20. Khaki isn't right for all skin shades. Dockers would be perfect.

Sure they sell Khaki, but they have a wide range of neutral colors that will help any committed warrior fit into a suburban environment.

[gogoplata]

6. We don't need to occupy a country and send 30 thousand more

troops in to a country that isn't even where bin Laden is. Pakistan is the place to invade if you want to get him, you want troops in Pakistan too? All this for one old guy?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

7. We continue to fight a lost war to get one guy? Then what?

Go even more broke than we already are, kill more people, lose more troops, so we can show we're "tough". Or, merely stupid?

[liberalmuse]

10. It's a little late for that.

Granted, it would be nice to see that asshole brought to trial, IF indeed he is the asshole who murdered 3,000+ civilians in NYC and DC. I have my doubts. I can't stand terrorists, but believe they should be brought to a world court, rather than 'eliminated'. We need to shame these fuckers, by putting them on display at the Hague in order to show them that the world of semi-law abiding citizens has nothing but contempt for their ilk. Bombing them just makes them martyrs.

[EFerrari]

12. Imho, the very worst thing we could ever do to the people who did 9/11

is to treat them with dignity and give them a fair trial.

Because then they would have to own their shame.

[Gregorian]

13. Nope. I cringed the first time I heard him say that.

We cannot roam the planet killing people we don't like, no matter how bad they are. And I doubt we've been invited to do so.

That being said, there may very well be good reasons to be in Afghanistan. Our lack of presence may lead to a situation they would prefer not to have. Again, only if invited.

Justice isn't accomplished with the muzzles of guns.

[nevergiveup]

14. Osama is dead

IMHO

[backscatter712]

18. Yeah, I doubt he's alive too.

All we're hearing from him lately are audio tapes and very badly doctored videotapes - watching the latest message from Osama Bin Laden is like watching Weekend at Bernies!

I wouldn't mind hearing the news of Ayman Al Zawahiri being blown to hamburger though.

[Swamp Rat]

22. Don't worry, they are making a clone right now.

[Truth2Tell]

15. How about a question back at you?

How would shifting more troops to Afghanistan help capture or kill Osama? What will they be able to do differently or additionally that the existing troops can't do? Real question.

[Art_from_Ark]

19. I'm still waiting for General Pershing

to capture Pancho Villa

[EFerrari]

24. Omigod, did we win one?

lol

[RainDog]

23. k&r - but I think he's dead

so I guess I wish someone would produce the remains.

[JDPriestly]

26. I support Obama's policy on Afghanistan and Pakistan.

As for Bin Laden, if he is still alive, I want him caught. If not, I want to know where he was buried and how he died.

What I cannot understand is how the Bush administration could have been capturing and reviewing and categorizing all of the e-mails or let's say just all of the international financial transactions that transpire via electronic media, the internet, etc. and not know exactly where Bin Laden is.

What were they doing with all those international wiretaps. Something smells very strongly with regard to the FISA violations. At the very least, the Bin Laden organization had to have money. They had to move money, and lots of it. How could our intelligence have missed the movements of money that kept Bin Laden going all these years assuming he has kept going all these years. Something does not add up. They should have caught Bin Laden long ago. Otherwise, why are we spending so much on electronic surveillance.

After all, they caught Elliot Spitzer. And he made apparently made just a few and relatively small questionable transactions.

[ConsAreLiars]

27. I want to see him and his enablers and co-beneficiaries, Cheney and the Chimp, in the same courtoom.

Butchering more Afghans and mass murders of wedding parties really won't get there, no matter how much blood of innocents you want to spill.

[Pastiche423]

28. The dude has been dead since December 26, 2001

[cali]

29. He could be dead. He could be alive

but stating unequivocally that he's dead, is simply a fool's message. I prefer evidence for such claims. So do most thinking people.

[Ghost in the Machine]

63. Fox News: "Bin Laden Already Dead"

Fox News: "Bin Laden Already Dead"

Wednesday, December 26, 2001

Usama bin Laden has died a peaceful death due to an untreated lung complication, the Pakistan Observer reported, citing a Taliban leader who allegedly attended the funeral of the Al Qaeda leader.

"The Coalition troops are engaged in a mad search operation but they would never be able to fulfill their cherished goal of getting Usama alive or dead," the source said.

Bin Laden, according to the source, was suffering from a serious lung complication and succumbed to the disease in mid-December, in the vicinity of the Tora Bora mountains. The source claimed that bin Laden was laid to rest honorably in his last abode and his grave was made as per his Wahabi belief.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,41576,00.html

----------------------------------------------------------------------

The Death of bin Ladenism
By AMIR TAHERI
Published: July 11, 2002

Osama bin Laden is dead. The news first came from sources in Afghanistan and Pakistan almost six months ago: the fugitive died in December and was buried in the mountains of southeast Afghanistan. Pakistan's president, Pervez Musharraf, echoed the information. The remnants of Osama's gang, however, have mostly stayed silent, either to keep Osama's ghost alive or because they have no means of communication.

With an ego the size of Mount Everest, Osama bin Laden would not have, could not have, remained silent for so long if he were still alive. He always liked to take credit even for things he had nothing to do with. Would he remain silent for nine months and not trumpet his own survival?

Even if he is still in the world, bin Ladenism has left for good. Mr. bin Laden was the public face of a brand of politics that committed suicide in New York and Washington on Sept. 11, 2001, killing thousands of innocent people in the process.

What were the key elements of that politics?

The first was a cynical misinterpretation of Islam that began decades ago with such anti-Western ideologues as Maulana Maudoodi of Pakistan and Sayyid Qutb of Egypt. Although Mr. Maudoodi and Mr. Qutb were not serious thinkers, they could at least offer a coherent ideology based on a narrow reading of Islamic texts. Their ideas about Western barbarism and Muslim revival, distilled down to bin Ladenism, became mere slogans designed to incite zealots to murder.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9405EFDE1230F932A25754C0A9649C8B63

The story has never been disputed, refuted or retracted... just buried and forgotten....

:hi:

[Greyhound]

30. We can't afford it and it won't work. Terrorism is a strategy not a force

and it is stopped through intelligence and betrayal. Military force has only worked once against this type of conflict and a city was utterly destroyed in the process.

"Kill everyone, let God sort them out" is a t-shirt, not a strategy.

[NNN0LHI]

31. You want to keep invading countries until we find him?

What happens if he is already dead?

Don

[Junkdrawer]

32. Raise your hands. How many here want to find out who REALLY planned 9/11....

*Hand Raised*

[Odin2005]

34. Raise your hands. Who here are annoyed by "twoofer" crazies?

*raises hand*

[timtom]

73. Hand raised.

For finding out the perpetrators of 9/11, that is.

[Odin2005]

33. I want to see his head on the end of a pike. n/t

Many DUers want us out of Afganistan bcause they are either "twoofer" nuts or Pacifist-Isolationists that think everything is the US's fault.

[DutchLiberal]

36. You can't fight terrorism in the convential military way...

If that isn't clear, you haven't been paying attention for the last 7 years.

[Aviation Pro]

37. Uh, yeah, but you can suppress....

...a Level 3 insurgency group (such as the Taliban) with it and leave the capture or killing of bin Laden to the operators.

[DutchLiberal]

58. No, you can't. Ask the Russians how well that surpression worked out for them...

[GliderGuider]

38. I think the most fitting punishment for Bin Laden

Would be to force him to assume the presidency of the US.

[plcdude]

39. you know

he probably has been dead for quite some time now. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnychOXj9Tg

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

41. Raise your hand if you want to shift forces to Afghanistan...

and are willing to enlist yourself.

[Aviation Pro]

49. Uh, I served for 22 years....

...as below, I suggest you enlist.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

50. I'm not in favor of sending troops off to die in vain.

Therefore, it's not hypocritical of me to be unwilling to die in vain myself.

[Aviation Pro]

52. Your choice, that's why we have an all-volunteer Armed Forces....

...but refrain from suggesting to others that they enlist unless you're willing to do so yourself.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

53. Tell you what....

I'll refrain from doing that when you stop advocating senseless deaths of U.S. troops.

[Aviation Pro]

55. Routing out the Taliban and capturing or killing bin Laden....

...is not senseless, the way the war was conducted and managed by the Fuckstick/Shitstain administration is/was. With a clear objective, the services will accomplish the original goal of going into Afghanistan.

[DutchLiberal]

59. There's no 'routing out' the Taliban. The Soviets tried it for 10 years.

It can't be done. The occupation, the bombardments and the thousands of innocent bystanders who get killed only fuel the insurgency and leads to growth in support for the Taliban.

[Aviation Pro]

64. The Soviets were stupid....

...they sent tanks, BRDMs and BMPs into the mountains. That and our covert involvement of sending Stingers to the Mujahdeen caused the Soviet occupation to fail.

[DutchLiberal]

70. And the Americans are the smartest on earth, so they will succeed...

:eyes:

You can never 'rout out' an insurcengy. Ask the French, they tried it in Algeria. And I recall reading about Vietnam. Didn't work there either, now did it?

[Cerridwen]

42. I'd like to see him hanged around the "House of Saud's" collective,

royal neck.

[zorahopkins]

43. I *ant Peace

I *ant Peace.

Please sho* me ho* it is, exactly, that the capture or death of Osama Bin Laden *ill contribute to Peace.

Even if Bin Laden is killed or captured, there *ill be, thanks to the terrible policies of the Bush/Cheney regime of thugs and cronies, thousands more ready and *illing to lead people against the USA.

I *ould much rather see President Obama build bridges to people like Osama Bin Laden, and restore America's tattered image around the *orld.

THAT *ould create Peace.

Note: In protest of the continuing occupation of OUR *hite House by the illegal and totally corrupt Bush/Cheney regime of thugs and cronies, I REFUSE to use the letter bet*een "V" and "X", and I urge you to do the same.

[totodeinhere]

44. I oppose capital punishment under all circumstances. So I want him...

captured, then given a fair trial by an international tribunal. Then if he is convicted he should be given the punishment deemed appropriate by the court, but it absolutely should not be capital punishment.

[Mari333]

45. then i suggest you enlist

or demand that your children enlist, or support a draft.
because the soldiers are at the breaking point and have been deployed 3, 4, 5 times and cannot do this anymore.

[Aviation Pro]

48. Uh, I served for 22 years.....

...I suggest you enlist.

[Mari333]

51. then re enlist

or at least be willing to send your kids. you should know as well as anyone what being deployed 3, 4, 5 times is doing to the troops. i have already had my son in iraq.
or,at the very least, support a draft. thats one way the soldiers would be replenished, a draft. then obama can do his thing.

[Aviation Pro]

54. And I salute you and your son for having to bear that burden....

...as I did previously, but as I said above, refrain from suggesting that someone enlist because you disagree with them.

As for my children, they are too young, but my son wants to go to one of the academies.

[Marrah_G]

46. I have no problem with his plan

We never should have shifted focus to Iraq in the first place.

[johnfunk]

61. I want to see him captured and put on trial. In civilian court. In the US.

With an Islamic US special prosecuting attorney (preferable a Shi'ite or Sufi as added insult to that unclefucking murderous piece of shit Osama) -- and occasionally rubbing the defendent's nose in the Qu'ran exposing him as a criminal and heretic.

And hell yeah -- once he's sentenced to death, put the execution on Pay TV to raise money for a scholarship fund for kids of victims of Osama's attacks on the WTC and Pentagon.

[scarletwoman]

62. I don't really give a shit. He's most likely already dead, anyway.

This whole "bogeyman" nonsense is destructive and useless. He was a creation of the CIA, in concert with the Bushes and the House of Saud. If he's still alive, killing him is totally beside the point.

The way to combat terrorism is to help the ordinary people to have decent lives. When people feel like they are being shat upon, they get pissed and feel like hitting back. Stop shitting on them, open up opportunities for their lives to get better, and the result is fewer angry young men who want to blow up shit.

Osama bin Laden is an outdated symbol. If he's still alive, he's powerless and meaningless. If he's still alive, killing him will only give him more status than he has now.

We've been fed nothing but fictions for 8 years. It's time to stop giving any credence to those fictions and move on toward a more useful strategy for dealing with angry Muslim fundamentalists. Only Muslims themselves can effectively repudiate their wingnut fringe. The most we can do is to help open a space for that to happen.

sw

[leftofthedial]

65. he ought to shift forces to Washington DC and clean that place out first

it's infested!

[Manifestor_of_Light]

66. Osama Bin Laden is dead.

Pakistani President Benazir Bhutto said so, shortly before she was assassinated in December of 2007.

She was interviewed by David Frost. She mentioned some terrorist "who killed Osama bin Laden".

David Frost said nothing. She probably knew more about Pakistani politics than anyone else who spoke English.

Mike Malloy played the clip from the interview with David Frost several times, a few months ago.

[timtom]

67. I'd like to see him reanimated -- brought back to life.

And THEN to receive justice.

[malaise]

68. Benazit Bhutto told David Frost in an interview

that bin Laden is dead. That's good enough for me.

[DutchLiberal]

72. How would Benazir Bhutto know? And why should we take her word on it?