Is anyone here an expert on Senate procedure? Technically they don't need 60 votes...

[democrattotheend]

Someone help me out here:

I looked into Senate rules the other day, and it says that to break a filibuster they need 3/5 of senators present and voting to vote for it. It does not say 60 votes - it says 3/5 of Senators present and voting. The vote just now on cloture for the auto loan was 52-35, with 87 senators voting, and Reid changed his vote to no at the end so he could motion to reconsider at a later date (motions to reconsider a failed motion have to be made by someone who voted against the measure the first time). So it was actually 53-34, which is more than 35 of senators present and voting. So why did they say the motion failed?

[Edgewater_Joe]

1. You Need 60 Votes To Bust A Filibuster

And had the bill been brought to a vote, someone -- likely McToyota or Vitter (R-Diaper) would've then put the filibuster on, at which point the Democrats would've needed 60 votes to break it. And they were clearly 7 votes short of that.

[robinlynne]

2. 7 votes whihc they will have in 3 weeks.

[Edgewater_Joe]

7. IF The Companies Can Last That Long ...

Maybe they'll just shut down until January 5 or 12 and hope they get it then ... or maybe Buffet or some megarich investor can give the companies a three-week bridge loan?

I mean, if a depression hangs in the balance couldn't SOMEBODY front them the dough until the new Congress gets in???

[stillcool]

13. you would think they..

could pass the hat and come up with 14 billion. The Defense Department probably has that in their petty cash.

[democrattotheend]

3. Technically you don't need 60. You need 3/5 of all senators present and voting

[tritsofme]

16. This is not correct.

To invoke cloture, 60 votes is a hard number.

[Jennicut]

4. Thanks, I didn't get it either. Not one Rethug would work with the Dems

so f*ck them. The car companies will go bankrupt and maybe 2 million jobs or more will be added to the mess Obama has to clean up from Shrub and the Rethugs.

[democrattotheend]

8. That's not true

I know Bond and Voinovich voted for cloture...there may have been others as well, but I know those two voted the right way.

[Jennicut]

10. Well, that is good. I want to know what ones did not.

I guess I gotta go dig it up now and find out.

[democrattotheend]

11. Looks like Specter voted for cloture as well

[LynneSin]

20. Let's hope that affects Arlen's re-election. Usually he gets several union endorsements

including Steelworker. And Steelworkers are not going to be keen on Specter voting against the UAW

[democrattotheend]

26. No, Specter voted with the UAW

He cast the right vote in this case.

[SharonAnn]

6. Why not the GOP actually filibuster? What's the downside to that?

[Idealism]

5. From what I gather

This was a test vote to see reception of the measure, and if they didn't reach 60 votes (required to break a filibuster) the GOP will threaten to/initiate a filibuster that will stall the measure.

Another possibility is that this measure needs 60 votes to pass because its altering a previous passed bill (the $25 billion fund was supposed to be for green car incentives and research-- the $14 billion is coming from that).

[TheKentuckian]

9. Off with their heads!!!!! No more nice liberal peaceable, get along, BS

The Republiscum ought to be thinking of their lives and property instead of counting foreign payoffs.

[w4rma]

12. Won't matter in 23 days. (nt)

[Better Believe It]

14. Let the Republicans Filibuster, So What's The Fricken Problem With That?

So what's the fricken problem? Just stay in session until you've got the 60 votes .... be a a day, a week or right up until January 3rd!

I bet the filibuster would end long before than.

Why the hell do Reid and other Democratic Senators fear a filibuster so much?

[stillcool]

15. yeah really!

[tritsofme]

17. I've done some further research, it is 3/5 of the Senate membership, not present and voting.

The pertinent paragraph from Senate Rule XXII:

"Is it the sense of the Senate that the debate shall be brought to a close?" And if that question shall be decided in the affirmative by three-fifths of the Senators duly chosen and sworn -- except on a measure or motion to amend the Senate rules, in which case the necessary affirmative vote shall be two-thirds of the Senators present and voting -- then said measure, motion, or other matter pending before the Senate, or the unfinished business, shall be the unfinished business to the exclusion of all other business until disposed of. "

[LynneSin]

19. But not all 100 seats are filled so technically we need 59.4 senators

and I was always told that below .5 you round down. (Obama's seat is not filled)

[tritsofme]

21. But are there 59 votes for cloture?

It doesn't appear so.

Obama was a vote for cloture, now there is one less vote for cloture and one less required to invoke cloture, nets out to zero practically.

[democrattotheend]

23. If Reid waited for Kerry to get back from Poland they might have gotten to 59

Biden was in DC to vote if needed, Wyden was absent for an unknown reason but probably could have been called back from wherever he was, and I bet at least 2 of the 3 Dems who voted no might have voted yes if their votes would have made the difference. I don't know what kind of shape Kennedy is in right now but I bet he would have done everything he could to be there if his vote was going to make the difference. Reid obviously concluded that he did not have the votes and did not call everyone back, but I don't know how he came to that conclusion when he had 10 Republican votes to work with.

[tritsofme]

24. Its not really fair to play that game.

If there were more Democrats in town, less Republicans may have supported invoking cloture.

I have no reason to believe Reid sabotaged the vote.

[democrattotheend]

25. I don't think he sabotaged it by any means

I just wonder if he gave up too easily. But you could very well be right about the Republicans...or perhaps the three Democrats were unmovable.

[CreekDog]

27. that's a good point about the Republicans voting for cloture having "cover"

knowing that it was going to lose anyway.

[democrattotheend]

22. Got it, thanks So the magic number could be 59 right now

Because if a senator resigns they are no longer "duly chosen and sworn". Without Obama 3/5 of the Senate is 59.4...I don't know if that can be rounded down but it should, because it's closer to 59 than 60.

[LynneSin]

18. Wait it's 3/5 if all 100 seats are filled

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filibuster#United_States

3/5th of 99 is 59.4 so wouldn't that make it 59 Senators needed - Obama's seat isn't filled.