In my lifetime, I never thought I'd see US Senators, on the floor of the US Capitol

[BR_Parkway]

requiring US manufacturers to lower US wages to match those paid by foreign owned companies.

it seems positively unAmerican somehow.

Will they be back next week trying to legislate other US firms to lower the wages to match those of the migrant workers?

Any claim that they have ever made of representing the citizens of the US is totally throw out the window.

To think that the last hurdle that couldn't be overcome was not IF US workers would take further pay cuts, but how damn quickly it had to happen.

[IADEMO2004]

1. Guardians Of Privilege says it all

[bjobotts]

106. Agreed .Being a dem I hate to to face that it was the dems who scutlled the auto bill

"Major news flash:
Democrats scuttle Auto bail out and blame Republicans. The vote failed 52-35 with 8 Democrats (the number needed to pass exactly) voting no or not voting. Lincoln, Biden, Kennedy, Kerry, Baucus, Tester, Reid and Wyden should be the ones y'all are pissed at...not us. Put down your rocks and take a good look at your own glass house!"
Posted by SFCWallace in reply to a comment from acamus at TPM election central morning roundup 12/13/08

WTF??????????????? How did this happen. What is wrong with these people...are they just not paying attention

[bjobotts]

108. vote was 52-35 with 8 dems voting no or not voting (which would have made it 60 and passed it)

[bjobotts]

109. Lincoln, Biden, Kennedy, Kerry, Baucus, Tester, Reid, Wyden =the guilty 8

[bjobotts]

110. Can somebody please explain why...why these dems kept auto bailout from passing

[droidamus2]

116. Oh really!!!

Funny I just did a search on the auto bailout 'vote' and every reference I saw said that the vote was canceled because they knew that not enough Republicans would vote for it. Where did you get your numbers? Oh maybe your just being sarcastic but not doing it very well.

[droidamus2]

143. Ooops!!!

Okay on further research I have to admit I was wrong about the vote 'count'. Just looking at the count doesn't tell the whole story. Congress, in this case the Senate, has votes on whether a particular piece of legislation should be considered by the whole chamber. These votes are commonly used to test to see if the votes for final passage are there. If the party supporting the legislation does not have the votes but wishes to bring the legislation up later at least one of them has to vote no which then gives that person the right to revisit the bill. When this particular procedural 'roll call' vote was called on the auto bailout bill the Democratic leaders already knew they didn't have the votes to pass the bill in the full chamber. At this point you can get a lot of ass covering votes i.e Republicans voting yes on the procedural vote because of the composition of their constituency knowing full well that if the legislation ever came up for a final vote they would vote no. Same with Democrats voting no on the roll call even though they would vote yes on final passage. Yes all this procedural rig-a-ma-roll is confusing and most of the public probably doesn't understand it, but the original post I reacted to trying to claim that the Democrats killed the bill is simplistic at best and in actuality just wrong.

Another point that I read on another thread that is salient is that apparently the Bush administration had already indicated to the Republicans in the Senate that they would not let the big 3 fail. Meaning that Bush, as he has already stated, would find the funds somewhere else (banking bailout money). This allowed the Republican Senators to claim a victory over the unions without actually having to suffer the consequences of millions of auto workers losing their jobs. Typical Republicans more interested in playing ideological games than really being concerned with the welfare of American workers or the country as a whole.

[dixiegrrrrl]

126. Our vice-President elect voted NO?

[INdemo]

131. Where did you get this info?I believe you are wrong

I know its early and perhaps I'm not quite awake yet but is this a joke?
This list is wrong.

[KakistocracyHater]

165. yet they don't want us to be 'active' grassroots

they would prefer that we just sit on our hands & hold our tongues & not truly participate in American politics. But they are NOT representing us, especially ALL THOSE TIMES "DEMS" FOLDED, we HAVE to be active & DEMAND our 'reps' heed us.

[malaise]

2. You nailed it

K & R

[madokie]

3. Thats what the migrant workers is all about

dropping our wages.

[ellie]

4. Your point would

make a good letter to the editor.

[Starks]

5. If the wages are grossly exorbitant, legislating a wage cut is not the answer!

But then again, what is?

[The Magistrate]

6. What Wages Would Those Be, Sir?

[newtothegame]

50. Good point, Sir. Thanks for asking the question, Sir.

[ozymandius]

67. Just as Nixon instituted wage and price controls

those did not work toward the greater good of Americans. Then as now, the union busting Republicans wanted to anoint a select panel of citizens to pass judgment on wage and price increases. This practice led to subsidies of imported resources such as oil and gas in order to keep the wholesale and retail prices down.

[Grinchie]

77. Don't forget Reagan and the Air Traffic Controllers...

Thats was a milestone in Government Union Busting, and nobody lifted a finger to stop it, due to "National Security".

Now thay are saying that losing the Automobile Industry is a threat to National Security. I say B.S. to all of this manipulation of public sentiment against keeping people working with fair wages.

If the Union were smart, they'd point out that they would accept a wage reduction as long as they got Universal healthcare for everyone. But if that happened, then they would be on par with Japanese auto workers since they don't waste so much money on a shoddy, expensive helthcare system.

[Virginian]

88. That was why I thought it took irony to rename an airport after him. n/t

[liberation]

103. My family took insult...

none of my DC relatives refer to the airport as Reagan, they use the old moniker.

[demodonkey]

105. I always say NATIONAL, not Ray-gun.... nt

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

117. Reagan fired them all simultaneously -- now their replacements are retiring

simultaneously.

Another legacy of Saint Ronnie.

[HillWilliam]

127. Alternatively, they'll accept a pay and benefits cut

AFTER Congress. Congress hasn't missed a raise or increase in benefits in decades.

And for what? It hasn't been for serving the people, heaven forbid. :grr:

[Turbineguy]

138. Nixon did this

as a measure to control inflation. Nixon was actually quite friendly to Unions.

As a measure to contol inflation it did not work, but there is a difference.

Nixon (in spite of his other many faults) was actually more progressive than Clinton.

[Jim Sagle]

91. Any wages above those needed for living in a cardboard box, Your Honor.

[The Magistrate]

97. The Clarification is Appreciated, My Friend

And there can be no doubt about your psychic talents here, either....

[Telly Savalas]

96. Perhaps that of the United States Senate.

Their high salary, rich health care benefits, and robust pensions put a strain on the U.S. taxpayer. The quality of their governance is uncompetitive with the Japanese diet and various European parliaments. Since the poor financial state of the government is largely their responsibility, Senators should take a pay cut.

[sandyd921]

100. I'll second that!

Good call! There is an ample rationale for a pay cut for US senators, in fact far greater than the rationale they gave for a wage cut for unionized US auto workers!

[CitizenPatriot]

136. and they drove this economy over the cliff

by not insisting on oversight (only those voting yes on deregulations should have their salary "market managed" ), so they are clearly not competitive. Not doing their jobs.

I am still so curious - who knew that "small government" meant being in charge of what companies pay workers? I thought the market would decide that.

What about the bloated CEO salaries? What about the bloated boards stocked with political appointees who are NOT doing their jobs and are guilty of willfully abandoning their fiscal responsibility to the shareholders of a publicly traded company???? They did approve the 20 million dollar bonuses to CEOS when the company was not doing well. Will someone do the math and tell me how much it costs them to provide health insurance to the union so we can figure out how that compares to what the CEOS are stealing?

Why isn't the CEO bonus tied to the performance of the stock, as it should be? Why pay people for failing? Who is in charge of these companies? that is who "they" should be going after -- not the workers.

I am so pissed at the utter lack of logic and Ministry of Truth BS going on here.

HOWEVER, I see a great opportunity to let the Pukes know that if they want US companies to be able to compete in a Free Trade situation, we'll be needing nationalized health care and a few other socialist programs, so they better just STFU.

Why don't we have any attack Dems making the rounds on TV accusing the Pukes of causing this with their insistence on NOT giving health care to every citizen???

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

8. Exorbitant?

Pick the exorbitant wage:

Avg. UAW worker $30/hr.

GM CEO $8,000/hr.

[trotsky]

13. ...

:thumbsup:

[Deja Q]

121. For ruining a company, $8000/hr is too expensive. I'll do it for $200/hr.

I can ruin the company and STILL keep it from going under! :party:

[BR_Parkway]

12. Well, with most car companies - foreign or domestic, posting some

average 30% drop in sales? I'm guessing it's the economy - fix that first. If you locked up GM workers in a labor camp and forced them to build the car for free, there still has to be a buyer willing to part with money (and possibly be able to get a loan) or GM will still go bust. Economics 101.

And yet these US Traitor Senators would try convince us of anything but that little fact. Mostly to bust up the unions for their foreign owned corporate masters, and partially to deflect us from thinking the economy is the problem - the Republican Fucked Up economy.

When has it ever been different for the Republicans to try to pin things on some boogeyman so the sheep don't notice, once again, how badly Republican ideas and policies always, always turn out.

So, it's either piss poor Republican policies that have crashed the economy so badly that every car maker is taking huge drop offs in sales or it's the fault of the UAW that Toyota and Nissan are in just as bad of a sales slump as our own Big 3.

Of course it has to be UAW's fault.

Welcome to DU btw!

[LostinVA]

19. God, I hate when they are home from college on break

It's like clockwork every year in Mid-December.

[Ikonoklast]

35. I take Econ 101.

I are smart now. I know money things.

Durr.

[LostinVA]

41. hehehehe

[hootinholler]

37. Our friend ordered a pizza

Seems to have chilled out a bit.

-Hoot

[sasquatch]

80. Hey I'm a college student/former autoworker

:hi:

[HughBeaumont]

86. Well, if they would just stop teachin' the Friedman/Feldstien brand of Corpronomics

in Econ 101's across the country like it's the Gospel, we wouldn't have an army of Reaganite Randian stooges oozing out of these classes like the indoctrinated idjits they are.

Proven a bad sideshow, yet we're still gonna keep on trying it until it works.

What did they say about "insanity"?

[Speciesamused]

161. Hear Hear!!!!!

Well said.

[bvar22]

60. I agree.

Whatever you are making at your job is grossly exorbitant.

[Hekate]

93. That was quick. Gone already, off to enjoy the pizza. nt

[Lint Head]

7. I think there turning Japanese

I think there turning Japanese
I really think so

I think there turning Japanese
I think there turning Japanese
I really think so

I think there turning Japanese
I think there turning Japanese
I really think so

I think there turning Japanese
I think there turning Japanese
I really think so

:dem:

[Rebubula]

11. Wow...

that post gave me the Vapors..


:headbang:

[ooglymoogly]

74. Well just don't swoon on my swooning couch. nt

[Obamanaut]

27. there? they're? nt

[TankLV]

146. ..."they're" not "there"...

"they're: a contraction - short for "they are"

"there": a place designation - "put that plate over there"...

[LiberalEsto]

9. They are traitors

As far as I am concerned they have betrayed every working American.

[TankLV]

148. I thought "there" traitors...?!?!

according to some here...

[screembloodymurder]

10. It's war!

We better wake up and realize it's us or them before it's too late.

[bdamomma]

21. it is really between us and them.

[Medusa]

14. it flies in the face of free enterprise now doesn't it?

:shrug:

[BR_Parkway]

17. Free enterprise meaning that their markets are just as open as ours?

that they would give us millions to open plants in their countries? And provide universal health care so that it wasn't a burden on corporations?

Yeah, I'm really sick of hearing them preach on about supposedly "free markets".

[Bjorn Against]

15. I always love to see the millionaires club complain that the rest of us make too much...

Of course if we say they make too much then it is class warfare.

[Blue_Tires]

163. +1

[Odin2005]

16. It's economic TREASON!!!

:grr:

[Raster]

18. I think it's high-time the US Congress has their pay decreased to bring their salaries in line.

And no further health benefits NOR retirement benefits until the same caliber benefits are available to ALL AMERICANS.

[Hubert Flottz]

23. I think that's a great idea!

A person who sits on his plump ass in an air conditioned office shouldn't earn what a person who digs a ditch out in the god damned rain and mud makes.

[undeterred]

39. Excellent suggestion.

[Cleita]

48. I'm all for that.

They can get their health care from the same HMO the rest of us do and when they retire they can get Social Security and Medicare like the rest of us.

[TankLV]

149. No - not Congress - all CEO's!!!

no more than $500,000/year would be a good start...

[bdamomma]

20. by any chance did anyone catch

what Toyota workers make who are based in the US they make more money than the UAW workers, it was reported on Keith last nite I think.

[TankLV]

150. Yep...so according to Shelby, Ensign et all, the UAW deservs an INCREASE in salary!

I want to see their faces when someone says THAT to them!!!

[ixion]

22. off-shoring is doing the same thing in the tech industry

that is: bringing wages down for IT professionals. It's not just auto workers.

[Greyhound]

42. Advertisements for experienced programmers offering $10 - $14 per hour,

and they are getting 100 - 400 resumes the first day.

Top .01% takes more money that the bottom 50% of Americans. We've let them do it for a long time now, will we fight them or take it?

[Deja Q]

122. $10/hr is awesome!

If you live in a country where $10/hr is manna from heaven.

In America, it's just a few crumbs.

Especially the responsibility programming entails.

[Greyhound]

159. Don't worry, all those companies in India that are in posession of our data

are our friends and would never do anything untoward with it. Does it really matter if your apps really work, as long as they look like they do something?

[Swamp Rat]

24. 'US Senators requiring US manufacturers to lower US wages to match those paid by foreign companies.'

REPUBLICAN Senators requiring AMERICAN manufacturers to lower U.S. wages to match those paid by FOREIGN-owned companies.

REPUBLICAN Senators requiring AMERICAN manufacturers to lower U.S. wages to match those paid by FOREIGN-owned companies.

REPUBLICAN Senators requiring AMERICAN manufacturers to lower U.S. wages to match those paid by FOREIGN-owned companies.

REPUBLICAN Senators requiring AMERICAN manufacturers to lower U.S. wages to match those paid by FOREIGN-owned companies.

REPUBLICAN Senators requiring AMERICAN manufacturers to lower U.S. wages to match those paid by FOREIGN-owned companies.

REPUBLICAN Senators requiring AMERICAN manufacturers to lower U.S. wages to match those paid by FOREIGN-owned companies.

REPUBLICAN Senators requiring AMERICAN manufacturers to lower U.S. wages to match those paid by FOREIGN-owned companies.

REPUBLICAN Senators requiring AMERICAN manufacturers to lower U.S. wages to match those paid by FOREIGN-owned companies.

REPUBLICAN Senators requiring AMERICAN manufacturers to lower U.S. wages to match those paid by FOREIGN-owned companies.

ad infinitum

[Kalyke]

29. Can the UAW request an arrest warrant for treason on those

Republican senators?

Anyone can go to the federal courthouse, take an oath and swear charges against someone.

If I were Ron Gettlefinger, I'd go down to the local US District Court, post haste, and file charges for treason.

[dickthegrouch]

33. Can we have some names?

[Fla Dem]

34. Names of senators with foreign auto factories in their states.

Shellby & Sessions(AL)
Vitter(LA)
McConnell & Bunning(Ky)
Cochran & Wicker (MS)
DeMint(SC)
Corker(TN)
Hutchison (TX)

You can't tell me having the foreign auto industries in their states didn't influence their votes. They are protecting the foreign business in their states.

[SharonAnn]

68. Sure, if the UAW is broken, then the foreign car companies can lower their wages

without fearing that their employees would unionize.

[FailureToCommunicate]

70. Wow! BEST. REPLY. EVER. Sure, we expect treason from Rebubs, but spineless

Democrats like Reed make it so much worse...

[Bozita]

85. Perfect. Flat-out perfect!

[rucognizant]

125. so lower the utilities......

to match the lower salaries!

[dysfunctional press]

25. why not have u.s. executives & CEO's match the pay structure of foriegn companies?

NOBODY in the world is as obscenely over-compensated as many u.s. ceo's.

[Captain Hilts]

26. Good point. Put them back at earning 'only' 75% of the salary of the lowest paid worker. nt

[INdemo]

133. This was actually mentioned in the hearing that US Auto companies

could lower their CEO's wages to the equivalent of foreign auto CEO's and the subject didn't get much discussion.GM's CEO gets about $25mln compared to the top Foreign auto CEO of $2mln..It was a Democratic Senator that raised this question.

[TankLV]

151. I noticed that it sank like a rock...

real quick like...

[ljm2002]

30. That is an excellent suggestion...

...and I wonder why it is never brought up when these things are discussed on TeeVee.

Well no, I really don't wonder. But I wish it was brought up! Maybe Keith or Rachel could broach the suggestion with one of their guests. It really is a strong point, and also shows that obscene compensation does not produce better executives. Also I'd like to know relative amounts of executive pay vs. worker pay as an overall part of the auto companies' budgets -- how do they compare? How would they compare if executive pay was brought into line with foreign companies? And, if one wanted to really explore the issue, it would of course be useful to see what effect universal health care would have on their expenditures.

Well it may be too late for those discussions anyway, unless the auto industry gets a surprise rescue somehow.

[WHAT]

44. That and lower wages of congress...

.

[Obamanaut]

46. No lower wages for congress, but an increase for fed judges

was tucked into the auto bailout bill. Add that to the scheduled $5,000 for themselves that congress probably will not reject at the end of December.

<snip>
The Senate passed the judicial pay measure as a separate bill in November, but the House never acted. A House Democratic leadership aide said that while House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., supports the pay raise, it was difficult for the House to hold a stand-alone vote in the midst of a recession to increase the pay for people making far more than most workers.

As a result, Reid has taken the unusual step of linking the obscure but important judicial pay issue to the unpopular auto bailout.
<snip>

More on both ends of the snip at link http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081210/ap_on_go_co/judicia...

[liberalhistorian]

69. "Important judicial pay issue?"

I'm in the legal field, have been for a long time, and that is not an "important" issue. Judges make far more than enough money, believe me, far more than most workers, even middle-class workers. They don't need any more. And if they're whining that they do, then let them off the bench so they can go make far more screwing people over in a corporate or collections firm. They sure as hell wouldn't be interested in actually doing some good by working in a legal aid office or small rural office where the need is desperate. Why the hell can't Reid and Pelosi be as concerned for the wages of us average workers for once? Oh, that's right. We can't pad their pockets as well. Silly me.

[L0oniX]

28. Revolution anyone? Let me know when it starts.

[struggle4progress]

31. They're counting on the usual Republican "politics of resentment," hoping

that their lies about union wages will produce working-class anger against unions

[jasmeel]

32. Isn't that socialism (or close to it)?

[SoCalDem]

53. you prefer anti-social?

:evilgrin:

[Jackpine Radical]

82. WTF is wrong with socialism?

Do you even know what it means?

[OneBlueSky]

36. it's all about who Congress represents . . .

at one time, Congress represented the people . . . in the 21st century, represents the corporations . . . the change came about primarily due to campaign financing that allows corporations to contribute to political candidates . . .

what we need to do is restore citizen authority over corporations . . .

http://www.reclaimdemocracy.org

[PVnRT]

40. When have they totally represented the people?

I think you need a history lesson, kiddo. Those in Congress answerable to the people have always been outnumbered by those owned by the wealthy.

[FiveGoodMen]

56. What's changed is that we used to EXPECT them to represent us

Or at least get angry when they didn't.

Several decades of corporate PR have most Americans sympathizing with the rich bastards rather than the common people. We admire those who've taken the most for themselves and decided that the have-nots deserve to be have-nots (never once considering that it could happen to us!)

So we actually think that Congress should look out for the CEO first.

Maybe that's going to change a little, now. (I hope)

[BR_Parkway]

45. Next time someone wants to amend the Constitution, hopefully it'll

be to state that corporations don't have personhood and equal rights. It's been way more damaging to this country than if Adam and Steve want to get married

[undeterred]

38. I would like to legislate lower wages for all the Senators who voted NO.

[rpannier]

113. And those who chose not to vote

[cascadiance]

43. The only wages that are "grossly exorbitant" are those of CEOs and execs!

THOSE salaries should be hacked. And trimming those would be far more efficient in bringing back profitability to these corporations. And these also don't currently match those of foreign owned companies too (at least those not based in fascist states).

[Cleita]

47. It is unAmerican. What they should have been doing was protecting those

manufacturers and jobs created by them by raising the tariffs on imports like all those same countries do to our exports.

[Joe Chi Minh]

49. How about Haiti, the country they liberated? Their wages must be fine....

How is it the Germans and Scandinavians get paid so well, pay high taxes (though doubtless much more proportionate to income) and have enviable welfare states? All very puzzling.

[nichomachus]

51. You can add this to the list of thing I never though I'd see

1. The theft of an election by the Supreme Court
2. A war of aggression based on lies that most sentient people knew were lies
3. A president ignoring a credible warning of an imminent attack on the country
4. The looting of the US treasury in broad daylight -- while the looters laughed in our faces
5. Torture as an official policy of the US
6. Spying on US citizens by the government
7. Secret prisons and people being held incommunicado

need I go on?

The sad thing is: If I had predicted these things on this board (had it existed) in 1999, I would have been howled at and ridiculed and there would have been at least 100 posts telling me to "adjust your tinfoil hat."

[rhett o rick]

52. I don't get your point. "If I had predicted these things", but you didn't. I don't think it is

possible to accurately predict the future. Those that try are often ridiculed.

[nichomachus]

54. My point -- and I do have one

is that people who do try to sound warnings -- here and on other boards -- are usually ridiculed by the "cooler heads." Very often, those warnings are correct. So, we shouldn't be too quick to laugh at those who are trying to alert us to what's going on.

[rhett o rick]

58. Yeah, I understand. However, I have made warnings and ended up laughing at myself. nm

[BR_Parkway]

59. True enough - all things to add to the list - maybe I'm numb with wondering

what else could possibly happen - and then to see something like this.

[HillWilliam]

130. In the mountains we have a saying

"Don't call trouble; it always answers."

Sigh. We didn't. It came on its own, on little raygun feets.

Even Ray Charles could have seen what was going to follow. Nobody liked Cassandra, either.

Edit: Dangit, spellcheck, James.

[BR_Parkway]

134. Didn't realize we were nearly neighbors, hiya

[HillWilliam]

135. Well Hiya!

Indeed we are! Beautiful country up by you. Haven't been up that way in ages, since my mom's first cousin played basketball for App State. It's not a really long ride. We oughtta ride up and visit your shop some time. Looks yummy!

[Deja Q]

123. On the flip-side, elections 2004, 2006, and 2008 were all canceled...

In short, predictions are based on inference and speculation and not fact.

[nichomachus]

156. Well, not every prediction is sound -- and you're foolish if you lump them all together

The Jehovah's Witnesses have been predicting the end of the world for a long time. But a lot of predictions were based on fact and analysis of those facts.

There was a post here just the other day of a speech by a congressmen in 1999 in which he predicted the current economic mess as the result of relaxing banking rules. He was absolutely dead-on right and I don't believe it was the luck of the draw.

In 2004, I looked at the housing market and from talking to a lot of people determined that the bubble had just about reached its peak. My house was grossly overpriced. So, I sold it in January 2005. I was extremely lucky because in early 2005 was when things started to go the other way -- although a lot of people didn't realize it. Condos in the complex where I lived are now going for 30 percent less than what I sold for.

I tried to warn friends and acquaintances and they treated me like some school kid who didn't know what he was talking about -- one actually patted my arm while he told me that it was just a "minor necessary correction, and that's a good thing." Right now, his house is worth about 60 percent of what it was worth in January 2005. He wants to sell, but can't.

The moral of the story is that not every warning or prediction is sound and you need to look at the reasoning behind them. If you accept them all unquestioningly -- or reject them all unquestioningly -- then you are a fool.

[Mari333]

55. Reagan's dream has finally been fulfilled n/t

[leftofthedial]

57. they are traitors

and need to be shunned.

[Waiting For Everyman]

61. K&R Sickening, isn't it?

They're not even done after losing the election. They have do as much damage as they can till the last minute.

I severely wish that everything they've done to others would happen to THEM PERSONALLY times 100.

[debunkthelies]

62. Pay Cuts?

Yeah, if it's to cut the pay of bloated CEO's and Politicians.

[sasquatch]

63. ¡Muerte al Sur!

:patriot:

[Swamp Rat]

78. ¡Bésamelo!

[sasquatch]

79. I will after Southern senators stop trying to torpedo the North and our country for their benefit

[Swamp Rat]

81. Re-igniting Civil War era hatred and attacking the South in general will get you this far:

[sasquatch]

83. Hey, they started it

[TankLV]

152. a "small" but salient point that is too easily ignored or overlooked by too many here...

...too "inconvenient" and "uncomfortable" TRUTH for some...

[TK421]

89. "That's bad-ass mo-fo to you"!

[xxqqqzme]

64. AND then turn around and blame the failure of the

negotiations on the WORKERS!!!!

[liberation]

104. It takes a special kind of sick bastard, eh?

But of course I wasn't expecting anything less from the party of "personal responsibility," than to turn around and blame the victims with a straight face.

[MadMaddie]

65. What's pathetic is that these bastards really have NO clue

of the impending disaster they may have ushered in. Just like 9/11, Katrina and all of their other disasters starting with Reaganomics they only see the immediate result of their actions, not the long term impacts.

It's absolutely Anit-American citizen.

Let's make sure that we put that NeoHoovereske label on the Republicans and the 2nd great depression happened because they were too greedy and just plain too stupid to understand the results of their actions.

[MH1]

66. Doesn't it really seem that the campaign ads write themselves?

That's something that has me puzzled about this whole business...

[Sadie5]

72. Did these Repub Senators

get reelected or are they out the door. McConnell won I know but what about the others who love the Japanese way of life so much? I think I will boycott anything Japanese until they are charged tariffs the same as the US.

[JNelson6563]

71. You know what your problem is?

You, my friend, are simply not nearly cynical enough.

Julie

[Individualist]

73. Say hello to the neocon/DLC allied government

Something tells me this won't be the only time you'll be surprised.

[W_HAMILTON]

75. It's shameful.

Why does no one on our side have the courage to call them out? I mean, GET ANGRY. Not this cowardly crap. Get so angry that they want to censure you. That's what this situation demands.

And why does our side let the Republican minority trample all over us? As someone suggested, make them filibuster. Keep their asses there through Christmas. Stop playing the nice guy. This is our fucking country, for God's sake. Stop letting these assholes run it into the ground.

[TankLV]

153. Harry and Nancy have GOT TO GO!!!

Put someone in there who knows how to FIGHT!!!

[femrap]

76. And no mentions that management

take a pay cut...!! Pisses me off.

[Lorien]

84. How many worker's salaries does it take to equal ONE CEO's salary?

They should set an example, imho.

[femrap]

140. Plus all of the 'yes boyz' with

vice prez titles or senior manager or executive vice prez titles. All of them need to take a big cut.

I believe I read that Ford's CEO said he'd work for $1/year. Of course he has already made millions and still has a bit of guilt/shame left. So I give him a tad of credit.

It's funny how no one is looking at the differential of the boyz and girls salaries. MSM won't look into that...don't want the 'libbers' to get uppity again. Nor do we want to see how few women there are at the top with titles like 'Asst. VP' or 'Junior VP.' That's about as high as the 'girls' are allowed.

[baldguy]

87. For the GOP, the only thing wrong with the US economy is that YOU make too much money.

Stop whining for god's sake!

[Neecy]

90. they want us all to be serfs

The morning news a couple of days ago had a feature that advised people how to survive the winter if their utilities had been cut off.

Their advice? Tape up cheap shower curtains over your windows and have everyone in the household sleep in the same bed. Not ONE WORD on local agencies that can help you get your utilities reinstated.

This is a CEO's wet dream - to have us all poor and desperate, taking pay cut after pay cut while the fat cats rake in the cash. How anyone other than a war profiteer can vote Republican just astounds me.

[NBachers]

92. What Happened to This Guy?

or should it be:

What Happened to This Guy!

[TankLV]

154. THAT should be bunkerboy's future!!!

Not a comfortable retirement...

[Hekate]

94. Megacorps & their lackeys have striven for years to have us competing with Third World wages

This is simply more naked and more public than usual, stripped of most of its high-falutin' language.

Corker... is that his name? Must remember that one.

Hekate

[OwnedByFerrets]

95. Can you just imagine the names that democrats would be called

if the roles were reversed. UN-AMERICAN UN-PATRIOTIC ANTI-AMERICAN TRAITOR

[sandyd921]

98. K & R! A shameful day for the US! n/t

[uppityperson]

99. k&r

[Robbie88]

101. They have declared war on us, and we must fight back. The Republicans' vigorous opposition to the

auto bailout has been so ridiculously transparent that there can no longer be any doubt as to who and what their party represents. This is unacceptable. :mad:

[jmondine]

102. Hmm... wasn't it not too long ago that John McCain said...

That the American worker was the best, hardest working, most innovative and most well trained in the world? So therefore they deserve a pay cut, they don't deserve to be paid better than all those lazier, less innovative and undertrained workers in the rest of the world!?

He also called the American worker, albeit retroactively, the "fundamentals of our economy". With that logic, the Senate rethugs, MCAIN AMONG THEM, are threatening, by his very definition, to cripple the fundamentals of the American economy!

Pardon my French, but what a bunch of dickless fuckwads.

[AntiFascist]

107. This is what happens when know-nothing senators take over management...

instead of bailing out GM they should spinoff one of the more innovative divisions like Saturn, install new and competent upper management (although I wouldn't trust the government to do this), then let them work with the unions. What we are dealing with is failed management, and a failure of the corrupt government which answers to that failed management.

[pinto]

111. And the rhetoric used was blatantly inflammatory. No finesse from the (R).

It was a clear bash on unions, in general, and the UAW specifically.

What got me, is there seemed to be no negotiation in good faith, from what I could see from the news reports. The Repubs, save for a few, came out with a "down the line" reiteration that the union was the problem. It was disheartening to say the least.

If the Repubs really wanted to help fix this, and not stand on some ideological ground, they could have advocated for management interests, negotiated with the Dems for labor interests and come to some compromise. It's called transparent representation.

[Usrename]

112. They all hail from Southern deadbeat states, too.

For example, Kentucky (home of Toyota and Sen. Mitch McConnell, the leader of the assault on labor) gets back about one-and-a-half dollars ($1.51) for every federal tax dollar that they send to Washington.

Meanwhile, Michigan (home of Detriot, the center of the American auto industry and the UAW) only gets back nine-tenths of a dollar ($.92) for every dollar they send to Washington.

In other words, through REDISTRIBUTION OF WEALTH, the union workers are actually giving financial aid to the foreign companies that are screwing them.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/22685.html

[The Wizard]

119. Isn't it time

Reconstruction of the Confederacy ended?

[backscatter712]

114. The Southroners are thinking back to the good ol' days.

OK, they're thinking way back, they'd like to become yet more ambitious. They're thinking back to say 1850 or so, when the prevailing wage for a laborer was $0.00, and the laborer worked with the promised reward of not being horsewhipped.

Seriously, you know that people like Chambliss and Corker would own slaves if it was legal...

[LaPera]

115. Republican corporate filth!

[MJJP21]

118. Why didn't those

senators ask the leaders of the banking industry that we just bailed out to cut their salaries? Why don't they ask the senators to cut their salaries as well? I mean for a starting salary around $180,000 plus a terrific benefit plan all that is required is be age 30 and not convicted of a crime that is pretty good. By the way did anyone go to the link in the post and read the responses? You can see these people in the south are just brain dead (yea I know there are exceptions) and still don't see the difference.

[passy]

120. It's already happening !

http://internationalpress.blogspot.com/2006/04/american-workers-accepting_114439054615594576.html

[DrDan]

124. and you have that tool hannity carrying on about how he

supports the worker - and in the same sentence blames the union for not agreeing to cut their wages.

He continues his rant about how unfair their claim to healthcare is taking the industry down.

[gleeindc]

128. U.S. pay

Perhaps they should expand their efforts and legislate that U.S. company CEOs wages and benefits should reflect what other nation's CEOs earn (and some of their perks might be questioned, like the one reported by Directorship.com about one-fifth of the CEOs heading publicly traded U.S. companies are reimbursed by their companies for their personal income taxes, according to a new The Corporate Library. Or, maybe they believe that company execs will address the situation by acting like the CEO of Japan Airlines, who, according to recent posts I have read, cut his pay to lower than pilots for that corporation (and he takes the bus to work).

[LeftishBrit]

129. They could take their own advice

A quick check reveals that American senators get a salary of $169,300.

British MPs get a salary of a bit over £61,000, converting to $92,000. (Still arguably too much!)

Members of the House of Lords don't get a salary at all. They can claim a reasonably generous attendance allowance for the days when they show up and vote - but they have to show up first!

I am sure that some other countries pay their legislators even less, if one shops around. So these Republican senators could cut their own salaries in line with other countries!

[INdemo]

132. What those Republican Senators are not telling us when

they are comparing wages with the foreign auto makers..Is that the foreign auto employees that earn less per hour than UAW workers but the foreign assembly line workers get a quarterly bonus which brings them in line with WAW workers. Now if one would consider the two tier UAW contract,where the the new hires or lower seniority workers earn much less than the older UAW workers than foreign auto workers actually earn more when their bonuses are factored in.

[jeff30997]

137. What's next?

Child labor? :grr:

[dugaresa]

139. those who forget history are doomed to repeat it...

Upton Sinclair would not be suprised by this bullshit

[shireen]

141. Thom explained it very clearly to a national audience on Countdown

Awesome interview:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x249525

[DutchLiberal]

142. I can't help but think about this Carlin bit:

I'm sure it has been posted in this thread already:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMqJvhmD5Yg&feature=related

[liberal N proud]

144. It seems so Republican though

The results of the Reaganomics they have preached for 25 years.

[TankLV]

145. A "race to the bottom"...

It's disgusting...

If we're going to "match" and compare ourselves to the loft goal of the "foreign (cheap) worker, then I suggest we get ALL of what the foreign workers get - starting with FREE GOVERNMENT-PAID-FOR HEALTHCARE FOR ALL without any insurance companies involved!

Woncer how much that "value" boosts the average foreign worker's salary...

Then we can add in their THREE MONTHS ANNUAL VACATION TIME PER YEAR...

[yardwork]

147. I hope that a lot of other people take notice.

[antimatter98]

155. Canada to loan $4bn to auto companies, but the US?

http://current.com/items/89617431/canada_to_loan_3_3_to_6_billion_to_us_automakers_if_us_won_t_source_cbc.htm

We have to see the entire financial crisis, including the auto company issue
in the context of our government along with corporate and banking interests, looting
and destroying American workers.

If Americans do not rise up and reclaim their power, it will be lost forever,
and we will have fascism for sure; we're 90% there already.

Obama cannot (and maybe will not) be the complete solution--we have Congress, which
is completely corrupted by outside money---acting against the public and its been
going on for 20+ years now, only today its reaching a head, and its totally obvious.

Do we just sit by and slide down the wall together?

[pmdsyr32]

157. us senators are

so corrupt it is pitiful. all the republicans care about are the foreign manufactures they should be taking care of america not japan, korea germany and the rest. REMEMBER PEARL HARBOR. it's happening again just in a different way.

[Po_d Mainiac]

158. Why didn't the republikturds

require that white collar wages fall in line with the X multiple about the average salary of the blue collar workers, as the foreign auto makers do also? It's been a major issue for years. (over-paid executives)Where was this concern for protecting the taxpayer during the Wall Street giveaway?

[JDPriestly]

160. Back in the 1950s, we used to brag about the fact that the Russians

had to work far more hours to earn enough to buy a pair of shoes than we did.

[whistle]

162. Anti union, anti labor congress

[stahbrett]

164. That's a great example of why government bailouts are a bad idea

When you go to the government for a bailout, there usually will be conditions attached. (Unless it's a bailout to your banking buddies.)

[lavndrblue]

166. Reid's vote was procedural

so that they can bring the bill to the floor again. He really didn't vote against it. Kennedy is ill, get a grip and the others look to be Blue Dogs. That's what we get for electing Republican's in blue coats.