Warren Buffet:: "It's class warfare"

[Phred42]

The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy;
that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.
John Kenneth Galbraith
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Just a recap. Buffet has been calling it for many years. Even Dobbs gets it.


"It's class warfare, my class is winning, but they shouldn't be."
- Warren Buffet CNN Interview, May 25 2005, in arguing the need to raise taxes on the rich.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/05/10/buffett/index.html



DOBBS: In point of fact, the Congressional Budget Office, which is considered to be the bipartisan objective standard of such things, has research that suggests that the deficit in Social Security would be only 0.4 percent of our GDP over 75 years as compared to the other large deficits percentages that associated with trade in the budget deficit. Do you have, we're talking about fixing the fixes we're in, a quick answer for Social Security?

BUFFETT: I personally would increase the taxable base above the present $90,000. I pay very little in the way of Social Security taxes because I make a lot more than $90,000. And the people in my office pay the full tax. We're already edging up the retirement age a bit. And I would means test ... I get a check for $1,700 or $1,900 or something every month. I'm 74. And I cash it. But I'll eat without it.

DOBBS: You will eat without it. So will literally more than a million other Americans, as well. Means testing, the idea of raising taxes, the payroll tax. In 1983, Alan Greenspan, the Fed chairman, he had a very simple idea: raise taxes. That's what you're saying here.

BUFFETT: Sure. But I wouldn't raise the 12-point and a fraction payroll tax, I would raise the taxable base to above $90,000.

DOBBS: That's a progressive idea. In other words, the rich people would pay more?

BUFFETT: Yeah. The rich people are doing so well in this country. I mean, we never had it so good.

DOBBS: What a radical idea.

BUFFETT: It's class warfare, my class is winning, but they shouldn't be.



more

[liberal N proud]

1. Buffet realizes that with out the middle class

His rich lifestyle will not last.

[JuniperLea]

15. I just don't get why the greedy bastards don't get this!

It's just amazing to me.

[CoffeeCat]

21. Oh. They get it...

...but they're "greedy bastards" as you said.

They get it. That's why they're fighting it.

They'd sell their own mothers for a quarter.

[rhett o rick]

30. Not sure why you don't get it. Makes perfect sense. If you let a group of children

into a candy shop and told them they could only take one piece of candy, what do you think would happen. Probably most of the kids would try to honor the rule. But when the first kid starts to fill his pockets, bingo/bango the rest will follow suit. Why don't they understand? Greed by it's very nature doesn't lend to understanding.

[tblue37]

37. People will always kill the goose that lays the golden egg. nt

[bertman]

25. Nice sentiment, liberal N proud, but the rich were able to do quite nicely without the middle

class for thousands of years. They were called nobles and they were a bloodthirsty, greedy bunch. Not unlike what we have today except, of course, today's nobles have a lot better PR.

[Lasher]

38. And without a middle class to bid up resources, the rich are actually richer.

A good example of this principle is the current price of gasoline. With the worldwide Bush recession, people can't afford to buy gas. The resultant decrease in demand has brought about gasoline prices that I thought we would never see again. Now it's goodbye peak oil, and hello again to the good ol' days.

If you've got plenty of money you've gotta love those prices when you fill up the Hummer. If you're living in a box you probably don't buy gas anymore so you don't care what the prices are.

[ProfessorGAC]

46. That's Not A Modern Economy

And, eventually revolutions changed a lot of fortunes in a very big hurry.

And, don't fool yourself, the rich people now are actually richer than the nobles to which you refer. That's because the availability of goods, services, comfort and luxury is hinged to a productive middle class.

Your example has little to do with the modern economies that those very same rich people fomented. If it wasn't better for them, they would never have pursused capitalism.
GAC

[rhett o rick]

31. I think Mr. Buffet is a rich man with a conscience. The rich do not need the middle class.

The middle class collectively has a tremendous amount of money. The rich want the money. The hell with the middle class. The only reason there ever was a middle class was because the rich needed the labor. Now they can get the labor much cheaper elsewhere. There is really nothing to stop the rich from stealing every penny from the middle class. Paulson is proving it right now. The middle class will never be able to replace the trillions being given to the rich by Bush and Paulson. Can you spell Banana Republic??

[Doremus]

36. The only reason there ever was a middle class

was because of unions.

[beltanefauve]

48. That, and,

the GI Bill. After WWII, it contributed greatly to middle-class homeownership and allowed veterans to get a college education.

[SeeHopeWin]

2. Good bless Mr. Buffet!

[GodlessBiker]

3. He sure can be a breath of fresh air.

[Orsino]

4. It was class warfare in Reagan's day...

...just as it was in the time of the Magna Carta and of the building of the pyramids.

It's sad that we see Buffett as some sort of prophet on this point, and that Dobbs had to feign surprise.

[tridim]

5. We could start by raising taxes on all rich southern senators.

80% would be a good rate to get them in parity with the people that vote for them.

[Phred42]

8. Buffet would agree with you

Warrren Buffett: The Rich Need to Pay More Taxes
Billionaire Tells Congress the Tax Code Is Unfair to Lower-Income Americans

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=3869458&page=1

[SlicerDicer-]

6. I think we are going to need to build a bigger stone head.

In reference to Easter Island. Keep building stone heads till obliterated.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

7. It's rather refreshing to hear the truth every once in a while

from those that strive to subdue us.

[Stuart G]

9. Next to the election and end of the war..this is the most important post this year.

Buffett admitting the truth about class warfare....amazing, but true, and he has more honesty in this one statement, than Bush has had in his entire life...

[Stuart G]

10. A truly great thread.. thanks Phred42, for posting this.

[Sherman A1]

49. Agreed

:toast:

[MichiganVote]

11. Ever heard of donating that check to charity Buffet? Some kids don't eat you know.

[Lasher]

39. He is donating almost his entire fortune to charity.

He is leaving his heirs very little. He is the richest person in the world, and yet his lifestyle is astonishingly frugal.

If you are making a charge of selfishness or hypocrisy you are barking up the wrong tree.

[sarcasmo]

12. Shut everything down, let's get the pitchforks and flaming torches and march to Washington.

[4 t 4]

13. I really respect Buffet, his son

has founded a company many years ago that turns waist into clean fuel AND water. He rock's IMHO. didn't he also pledge 38 million to the Gates Foundation? He said I have plenty and where am I going with it. That's a great attitude, really where are all these wealthy fuck's going with it, might as well help, no?

[ColbertWatcher]

14. "where am I going with it" Good point. n/t

[hay rick]

20. More like 38 BILLION. nt

[Maru Kitteh]

24. He's not leaving it to his kids becasue he wanted them to know they had to make their own way.

Very admirable, imo.

The world has enough Paris Hiltons.

[iconicgnom]

27. For people like Buffett and Gates, there's nothing more that money can buy.

They can heavily indulge in building a legacy of philanthropy. It must be nice.

I can't help comparing the legacies of the Bush family, and the family of Prince Bandar bin Sultan bin Abdul Aziz Al Saud. Whoa, quite a mouthful there. Quite a bite.

[tomreedtoon]

40. Pitchforks vs. assault rifles? YOU lead the way.

I'm going to wait until all those gun toters get mad and THEY start coming to Washington, strapped and pisssed off. They stand a better chance of survival than you and your rustic implements.

[bagrman]

16. Let's see if we can't feed ourselves, who do they think we will feed off of. mmm

[Hannah Bell]

17. buffett = frigging hypocrite.

[DainBramaged]

18. Why is he a hypocrite? I'd like to know why you think so.

[Still Sensible]

22. Me too!

What can you point to about Buffett that is hypocritical, or objectionable to Dems? He's a lifelong dem that just happens to have made himself and a lot of other people rich. I know most, but not all, that have had similar success are repubs.

[Hannah Bell]

26. AIG-Gen Re - + bailout for starters.

[iconicgnom]

28. This deserves more than what can be written in a n/t header!

Could you show, or describe, the hypocrisy?

In my own experience, I can abide a cynic, so long as the cynic isn't a hypocrite. I can't abide a hypocrite. As they say: "once burned..."

Buffett is rich beyond belief, and he's evidently aiming to play an increasingly political (general sense) role, so I'm naturally suspicious of him, of the power he brings to the table -- being native to this planet I'm naturally suspicious -- but I don't see hypocrisy.

[rhett o rick]

32. What???

[Hannah Bell]

34. Buffett lectures the "rich folk" (though he's about the richest person in the world)

on taxes - but he's got his sheltered in all sorts of ways - e.g. his Gates Foundation bequest, tied to the Gates being there to manage the money = major tax shelter & policy-manipulating arm.

Buffett rails on hedge funds, then starts one - in Bermuda (taxes)

It's on email that Buffett knew of the dirty AIG-Gen Re deal & knew of the 5 million $ "fee" for the deal; Buffett's subsequent AIG/Goldman moves = gov't $ & insider moves.

Buffett held majority stake in Moody's during the credit crisis build-up & purportedly used it to manipulate ratings of rivals.

Buffett & a few other firms (mainly Greenberg family ventures) controlled the majority of the WORLD's re-insurance business, & it's dirty.


Some folks on DU go goo-goo-eyed for folks like Buffett & Gates, some because of high-sounding public pronouncements & excellent PR; others because Buffett/Gates Inc. fund democrats. You don't get to be the richest person in the world on luck or by being a nice guy, bottom-line. You get there via connections & by being a shark.

[Lasher]

41. A powerful indictment indeed against Buffet.

If it came from an email it has to be true.

[Hannah Bell]

43. always plenty of people to defend the super-rich.

[Maru Kitteh]

23. Well, that's informative as hell. Just stopped by to throw bombs or do you plan to back that up?

?

[DainBramaged]

29. Very common. If it sticks and becomes a thread they've done their job.

[antimatter98]

19. Everybody get it: this is indeed a class war.

And Congress is in on it. Not just the banks, Wall Street, and corporations.

Our government has declared war upon working people in America.

This no drill.

[Hannah Bell]

35. also warren.

[jaundicedi]

45. It's isn't "War" if one side does all the fighting...

...and the other side does all the dying. A different noun is used.

[ashling]

33. I love that quote

I use to have it in my sig line and have used in in papers in grad school (with appropriate attribution, I might add LOL)

[Swamp Rat]

42. yep

[RandomThoughts]

44. Interesting post.

I really can't judge people, its just impossible to do, it requires deciding what is true, and false, and trying to divine what is in their thoughts behind their action.

But I do speak of some actions people take, that I hope I would not take. Or things I would hope I would do if I was in their position. So I can, and do, sometimes comment on things done. Of coarse I got my own issues I got to work on.

But when people ask about Buffet, (someone actually asked what I thought about him a couple days ago at the bar). I have a real hard time establishing him within my frame of reference as a bad guy just because he has money, or is on a presumed 'that' side of class warfare.

Could I say he is good? could I say he is bad? of coarse I couldn't we are all good and bad at times, but when you look at his actions, many of them I think are admirable.

There are many really good rich people, and their are many really good poor people. I guess it means money does not define the character of a man or a women.

[tbyg52]

47. I'd disagree with the means testing,

even if it means some super rich are getting a couple of thousand a month they don't need.

Means testing turns it into a welfare program, with all the attendant "morality" and red tape, instead of a social *security* program.

I'd link to my source for this thought, but it was a long time ago in a dead tree publication that I don't remember the title or author of. But they made a good point and it stuck in my head.