What turned the South from ardently pro-union to ardently anti-Union?

[blueclown]

I mean, for goodness sakes, the South was the backbone of Roosevelt's New Deal Coalition. They were called the Solid South for a reason.

Now the South is full of union busters and people who are anti-worker. Why is that? What happened?

[LostinVA]

1. Preachers and sermons -- seriously

[liberal N proud]

2. I suspect so

[meow2u3]

31. CON ARTISTS posing as preachers using bait-and-switch tactics

The scammers better known as televangelists decided to poke their noses into politics and discovered that disguising their grand-scale theft amounting to millions of dollars as a religious message to con unsuspecting hard-working, God-fearing Everymen and Everywomen out of their hard-earned wages was not only effective, but also to gain raw political power for themselves and their preferred candidates. These scamvangelists, nearly all of them Dixiecons, use bait-and-switch tactics to trick (mostly white) Southerners into voting for Republicans who will pick their pockets and rob them of their basic Constitutional rights.

They use code words like pro-life, family values, and states' rights as weapons in their war on the working class. Vote pro-life and you'll get death from starvation. Vote family values and you'll get divorced because of laws giving big business a license to steal from workers by underpaying, overworking, and forcing both spouses to work two jobs to try to make ends meet, among other things. Vote pro-gun and you'll get anti-environmental policies that would strip hunters of their hunting grounds, where they couldn't even kill their own meat. All that will be left for people to shoot are each other. :(

[LostinVA]

37. Also local clergy who are hand-in-pocket with local mill owners

Or, should I say WERE, since most mills (espcially textiles) are long gone from those towns.

[VAliberal]

43. Yep

Textile mill towns de facto paid the minister's salaries - same with coal towns in WV, KY and western VA. Unions were connected with godless communism, desegregation, etc. From what I've read, the Honea Path massacre in the 30's of workers in SC during a textile strike was a nail in the coffin of unionism - at least in South Carolina - with reverberations throughout the deep south.

[Z_I_Peevey]

67. Preachers, without a doubt.

When the GOP and the religious right became one in the 80s, many lost their ever-loving minds.

The combination of greed and Jesus was just overwhelming.

[Kalyke]

40. And rightwing radio.

[ogneopasno]

3. My answer was too flippant and ill-thought-out.

I retract it.

[supernova]

4. The red scare

Anybody who was pro union or pro workers' rights got labeled with the communist/socialist label. And yeah, by preachers.

[lifesbeautifulmagic]

5. that and non-stop right wing hate fest

radio, with no alternative.

No liberal talk, and in some places you can find Rush on the air on 3 different stations, at the same time.

[Rebubula]

41. Again...

...more Southern bashing.

You do realize that in Southern California, you can find Rush on several stations? You do realize that these idiot attitudes exist outside of the south?

But, I know...it plays better with a Southern accent. Easier to just besmirch an area of the country and ignore the shit in your backyard.

[elleng]

70. He's on stations all over the country.

Are you aware of 'culture' and the effect culture has on politics in an area?

Are you aware of the history of the South? What kind of businesses grew in the South, after the Revolution? Of the nature of 'labor' in the South? and the relationship between labor and management? And the interest of that 'management' in providing education for 'labor?'

[jwirr]

6. I think there was a difference between being pro-Roosevelt and pro-

union in the south.

[Stinky The Clown]

7. Right Wing Radio

And Jesus

[lumberjack_jeff]

9. I think it happened before hate radio.

Hate radio simply perpetuates it.

[lumberjack_jeff]

8. Two things:

a) The civil rights act. Blue collar whites, when forced to choose between bigotry and economic self interest, chose the former. Sad but true.
b) Republicans co-opting and Democrats distancing ourselves from Christian fundamentalism. Same kind of choice, this time between dogma and economic self interest.

This election was the beginning of a realignment. About time.

[blueclown]

10. Re-alignment?

From whom?

To whom?

[lumberjack_jeff]

56. Black southern evangelicals are unequivocal Obama supporters

Mainstream Christians have seen the problems which came from lumping social conservatism with economic darwinism. Both groups are pulling populism to the left.

[doc03]

11. The south was once pro-union are you s-----g me or what? n/t

[supernova]

27. Nope, it's totally true

There were some really ugly factory riots in the 20s and 30s here. Complete with dead people. :yoiks:

[doc03]

33. I just assumed they were always (right to work for less) scabs n/t

[supernova]

39. It's a little advertised chapter

in Southern history, and the Repukes would totally like us to forget about it.

Forget, hell! ;-)

Here looks like a good textbook on the subject.

http://books.google.com/books?id=lVQwHAAACAAJ&dq=labor+movent+southern

[Hannah Bell]

60. That book is about the 30's & 40s. The South was Democratic since Lincoln, &

not because of any pro-labor stance.

In the 30s & 40s the union movement was running strikes, etc. nation-wide. Heck, a good chunk of the South's labor (white & black) was effectively disenfranchised.

[BlooInBloo]

72. I don't recall that being the case either.

[JVS]

12. The South wasn't Democratic because of FDR, they were still voting against Lincoln.

FDR's transformation of our party was the first step of the flip into the party structure the US has today. The Republican response was the Southern Strategy, which with the exception of Carter and Clinton (two Southerners who managed to peel off some of the South, whereas another Southerner, Gore, failed in this) we can see solidly holding until now. Obama was also able to disrupt the Southern strategy by peeling off states with high numbers of people new to the South and large numbers of black people.

[RoyGBiv]

13. You're mixing issues ...

The white South was a part of the New Deal coalition for almost entirely different reasons than members of labor unions.

And parts of the South gave Roosevelt his hardest time while President, referring to his labor programs as socialism in the derogatory sense. I mean, a lot of people in the Tennessee Vally opposed the TVA!

[Kalyke]

44. But they opposed it because they didn't want to move or have`

half their land flooded. It wasn't anti-union.

[RoyGBiv]

51. Not the point ...

The rhetoric used in opposition to the TVA was anti-union in tone overall, and the campaign against it *used* people who had genuine "don't want my land flooded" concerns to promote that agenda.

The TVA in and of itself wasn't an issue of organized labor. The point is that in the South, being supportive of FDR was not a labor issue.

[IndianaJones]

14. the civil rights movement. nt.

[patrice]

15. The Money Changers are in the Temple and no one has enough Courage to throw them out. nt

[LiberalArkie]

16. Nope, all the good jobs were in the North.

All we had in the South were low paying non-union jobs. When I was growing up, if you made federal minimum wages you had a good job. I am from south Arkansas.
The unions never pushed for any of big plants to be in the cheaper south. If in the 50's and 60's major plants had located here, I would bet it would be all the union now. But you have to remember that in the south, we had low population density then, so people would have had to drive quite a bit to go to work. We still do, I can not think of anyone who does not have to drive less than 15 miles to get to where I work.

[patrice]

28. I wonder how much of this could have been averted if the Reconstruction had not been aborted

by President Hayes.

[NNN0LHI]

30. Ford plants: Atlanta, Ga. - Kansas City Mo. - Kentucky Truck, Louisville Kentucky - Hazelwwod, Mo.

http://www.autointell.com/nao_companies/ford/ford-manufacturing/ford-mfg-nao-plants.htm

[lifesbeautifulmagic]

17. The media talking heads just generallly seem anti-uion

My brother, who has benefited immensely from unions, (Boeing), listens to a classic rock station day and night, and loves a disc shock jock by the name of BJ Shay (clever, right), subscribes to his podcasts and just generally idolizes the guy. The one time I listened to him, he went off on an anti-union rant, right during drive time.

Anti-union sentiments are all over the media.

[patrice]

34. My Libertarian (attorney) husband says we need to learn to differentiate between antipathy for

Union "CEOs" and neutrality toward Labor.

I'm thinking I need him to give me some specific historic examples of the differences.

[Donnachaidh]

18. republicans and the southern class system

There most definitely IS a class system here.

[WI_DEM]

19. the south was never pro-union, they were pro-FDR, but not unions.

[Captain Hilts]

58. Florence King said FDR was credited when he did thngs they liked and Eleanor blamed when he did ...

things they didn't like.

[Freddie Stubbs]

20. The South never was ardently pro-union

Just because it was solidly Democratic, does not mean that it was pro-union.

[snake in the grass]

21. The answer:

Jesus and racism.

[magellan]

22. 1934 Textile workers strike

Heard this on Rachel Maddow's show last night. Google it.

Also parochial interests (political connections to foreign, non-union automakers in the South) and last but not least, our government's successful campaign of painting anything pro-worker as Communist or Socialist.

[deaniac21]

23. This little thing of ours.

[LanternWaste]

24. I would imagine it was the Dixiecrats...

I would imagine it was the Dixiecrats...

[La Lioness Priyanka]

25. by electing people who redefined the issues in such a way that now poor white southerners

do not vote in their own best interest.

(not just poor, but middle and lower middle class too)

[bullwinkle428]

26. Silly goose...the South was pro-Union until they seceded in 1861...

:hide:

[LostinVA]

38. That made me chuckle

[DrRang]

29. It was anti-union before the Civil Rights Movement really got underway.

I'm 64, grew up in North Mississippi. As a kid, even before I knew what a union was, I knew they were communist inventions of the devil, and were designed to make people lose jobs and to extort money from them. Racism was probably a strong factor, but it was not the surface reason.

[pacalo]

32. Wha, ah just have to tell you, mah deah good sir

that you're bahkin' up the wrong magnolia tree when you try to make this a suthe'n vs. noahth type of thang.

[DBoon]

35. The South was never pro-union

It was Democratic in the 1930s as a remnant of the Civil War

Southern Democrats voted overwhelmingly to override Truman's veto of Taft-Hartley. Taft-Hartley contained multiple provisions that allowed the South to escape the union organizaing efforts of the 9130s and 1940s, principally the one allowing states were to pass "right-to-work laws" that outlawed union shops (and Southern states passed these laws subsequent to Taft Hartley):

Democrats voting to over-ride Truman's veto of Taft-Hartley: 24

Byrd Va
John Connally Tx
Eastland, Miss
Ellender La
Fulbright Ar
George Ga
Hatch NM
Hoey NC
Holland Fl
Maybank SC
McLellan AK
McKellar TN
O'Connor MD
O'Daniel TX
Overton LA
Robertson Va
Russell GA
Stewart TN
Tydings MD
Umstead NC

From : http://www.counterpunch.org/cockburn09062004.html

[Hubert Flottz]

36. The South started fighting the Union in 1861 and that war still goes

on today.

[TahitiNut]

42. Goodness! Don't you know there are BLACKS in that union keeping jobs from white men (scabs)???

:sarcasm:

I've been on this planet long enough, and spent enough time in the Deep South, to KNOW why unions failed in the South back in Jim Crow days.

[pacalo]

53. That's a good point, Tahiti.

I remember when I was a kid & my dad worked at one of the industries in the South, blacks weren't allowed to have the good-paying jobs. They were assigned custodial work. It was something that I noticed on my own whenever we had Bingo nights, bowling nights, & movie nights. It was when I was a teenager that things changed -- when LBJ was president.

But in a thread contrasting the attitudes of the South & the North, & as one who has worked in industry in the South, I'm compelled to point out that most of the rich, substantial industries in the South came from northern states -- if we're going to have a North/South debate.

[TahitiNut]

54. It'd only be a "North/South debate" if we were far too superficial.

The fact of the matter is that the South had a far larger minority workforce about 50-60 years ago. The race-based resistance to unions, therefore, was far greater there. In the North, minorities were periodically "scrubbed" from the factory workforce by cyclic boom/bust that decimated those with least seniority. It wasn't until the late 70s that, due to migration and tenacity in lower-paying jobs, the same bigotry impact began permeating the "Reagan Democrats" here in the north, for the very same reasons.

Racism (and other bigotries) has been used to DIVIDE and CONQUER the working class for nearly two centuries. I'm hopeful we're seeing the beginnings of the last of that. It's appallingly toxic.

[pacalo]

61. I say this with the utmost respect for one of the most brilliant DUers

(I always take note of your posts), but I didn't witness any race-based resistance to unions; the motivation of the company officials was strictly company interest, emanating from out-of-state home offices. I say that as a former human relations office assistant in the liaison division, where the anti-union sentiment was prevalent.

Believe me, the workers did want a union; it was talked about a lot. And if it weren't for the unions in surrounding industries, our salaries & benefits wouldn't have been so great, as industries in my area were committed to being competitive at that time. It's gone way downhill since then.

[JVS]

69. Other way around, historically speaking. Black workers felt little obligation to respect pickets...

of unions that excluded them. The organizing of River Rouge was especially marked by racial tensions because black workers distrusted the UAW, which had to make a point of pledging equal treatment of black workers to gain black support in the struggle.

[HamdenRice]

45. White Soutern Racist Males

That's basically Paul Krugman's answer. The turning point was Hubert Humphrey's convention speech in the early 1950s in which the Democrats embraced civil rights and the white southerners walked out to form the Dixiecrat party, which was pro segregation.

A number of posts in this thread point out that the Democratic south was not pro-union, which is true, but it's not entirely true that the Democratic south was conservative on economic issues. There was a strain of white populism, which was progressive on things like farm issues and public works.

But with the realignment of the south against civil rights, the right wing was able to use their anti civil rights stance to turn them against everything progressive.

[Captain Hilts]

62. Yes, that's true. White flight from the Dem party after '65. LBJ was right. nt

[QueenOfCalifornia]

46. It's the

fucked-up-bible-belt-runaway-evangelical-neocon-craptacular-shittyest-pile of shit ever. It is how the neocons roll. They are told that a god-fearing-jesus-loving person does certain things - and being against any kind of social program is one of those things - they equate a union with a social program - They hear all that anti unionistic shit about how Joe the Plumber had to work under the table because of the unions and that Joe the Plumber couldn't make a good wage because of the union...

Also, they are fucktardios down there and do not give a shit about their own best interests.

[librechik]

47. slavery

think about it--it's a cultural thing--Some of them just feel cheated that they
don't get to have slaves anymore, and just don't understand why the workers aren't happy living on nothing but the gracious generosity of their betters.

[boomerbust]

48. Getting a bitchslapping

From the "Union" army?

[McCamy Taylor]

49. Racism. The whites were told that the unions would integrate their workplaces.

This from the bosses who wanted to keep the unions out.

And I believe that the South has always been anti-union, because the whites there have always identified with the managers/overseers.

[Crunchy Frog]

50. The civil rights movement and the "Southern strategy"?

They hate blacks more than they care about their own well-being?

Just guessing. :shrug:

[ladjf]

52. Republicanism. nt

[specimenfred1984]

55. A fact that many seem to remain delusional about

Even today when the Southern (R)s voted against American workers.

[ladjf]

66. I agree. That same erroneous thinking pushed the South into the

Civil War with disastrous results.

As I define it, Republicanism is a Philosophy that began as a political strategy for obtaining and keeping power, all while enriching a few who were "running the show". Over the last 40 or so years, that political strategy "morphed" into as set of life values, i.e. beliefs that many, unfortunately, used as their guide for how one's life should be conducted.

If the majority of Americans fully understood the destructive results of following the philosophy of Republicanism, there would be statues, disallowing the existence of any political party that followed the principles of Republicanism. It is Party that has no qualms about committing treason, torture, theft or murder to advance their goals. It that sense, they are domestic terrorist.

[Captain Hilts]

57. Not because they were pro-union. Because of farm aid and price supports. nt

[Hannah Bell]

59. The South was Democratic because of Lincoln's Republican party, not because it

was EVER pro-union. It was the "State's Rights" stance that was the attraction.

The Democratic party didn't become "the labor party" UNTIL Roosevelt.

[mitchum]

63. "Do you want some yankee Jew communist telling you when you can and can't work?"

believe me, that was a very popular one

[Odin2005]

64. The South was ALWAYS anti-Union. It has to do with RACISM.

White Southerners became reflexively anti-Union because businesses threatened to fire them and hire black people if they tried to unionize.

[SoCalDem]

65. My guess.

Unions and democrats have always had an affinity.. In the 60's when the Dixiecrats refused to "accept" desegregation, and joined up with republicans, they also accepted the republicans' dislike for unions.. Until the Bible-thumpers & racists joined up with republicans, they were the party of management, vs the party of labor- Democrats..

As former-democrats, they were well-versed in job-attracting tactics, and then set out to BUST the unions they had once supported. ...and they did it with a vengeance...It was a two-fer for them.. They got to "get back" at the democrats who refused to let them discriminate and they got to "prove their loyalty" to their new home in the republican party..

Since they came from poor states, it was not hard to offer what they had an abundance of..cheap labor & cheap land to the large companies "up north"..These behemoths of industry were getting pretty creaky and eager to pull up stakes and move to a warmer, cheaper climate.. Throw in free land, free roads, tax holidays & the ability to pollute-at-will, and ...well that's how the northern companies ended up in Alabama, Tennessee, Kentucky, Mississippi, Georgia..

Brand new, state-of-the-art companies, with a YOUNG (and hungry) workforce invigorated the stagnant economies of those states, at the expense of the northern factories left behind....and of course the older workforce was left behind as well..

The newer (and now foreign) factories hit the ground, running..with NO legacy costs..

Add the monetized value given to the southern auto plants, to the bottom line of the "older" factories, and they would not be struggling..

[Thothmes]

68. While supporting the New Deal

they also supported Jim Crow law and segregation.

[KakistocracyHater]

71. the Right have been telling bed-time fables

for a few decades over there, by buying radio stations, publishing firms/houses, & yes, getting preachers to 'catapult the propaganda'; basically one may consider it brainwashing. With deafening silence from the "Left", until recently.