Not just a GLB issue. Warren's dominionist, i.e. he opposes the fundamental tenets of the US polity.

[Hannah Bell]

"Dominion Theology is a grouping of theological systems with the common belief that society should be governed exclusively by the law of God as codified in the Bible, to the exclusion of secular law. The two main streams of Dominion Theology are Christian Reconstructionism and Kingdom now theology. Though these two differ greatly in their general theological orientation (the first is strongly Reformed and Neo-Calvinistic, the second is Charismatic), they share a postmillenial vision in which the kingdom of God will be established on Earth through political and (in some cases) even military means."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominion_Theology


But hey, gotta "reach out" to everybody, even the fascist theocrats.

[nomorenomore08]

1. Yeah, reach out and lose a finger or two (or the Bill of Rights) is more like it.

:puke:

[Political Heretic]

2. It's. A. Fucking. Pointless. Prayer. For. Fucks. Sake.

My god, its a crazy world when I fucking hate my own side as much as I hate the other side sometimes.

Apparently, you feel that the best way to govern is to tell anyone who disagrees with you to go fuck themselves for four years, and tell half the country to fuck off four four years. And then you wonder why we never get anything done.

It really doesn't matter how "wrong" some people are - dialog and inclusiveness is the only way forward. That's the bottom line.

[Hannah Bell]

4. Invite the US Nazi Party, then.

You don't give a platform, or institutional respectability, to folks who are fundamentally opposed to the principles our government is based on - & working to overturn them. Let alone the principles of the democratic party.

How fricking hard is that to understand?

[FiveGoodMen]

6. Beat me to it by seconds!

:toast:

[Political Heretic]

16. Fine with me.

I really don't give a shit.

[FiveGoodMen]

5. Suppose we try that attitude in a different arena

If post-WWII Germans had attested that Hitler was right and his policies should be continued, should anyone have reached out to them?

Seriously, some things are just unacceptable and they have to be opposed, not incorporated.

(First one that mentions Godwin's Law dies!)

[glitch]

15. About Godwin. Can anyone just make up any law? Or does it have to enable fascism for it to really

catch on? And don't Laws have to be proven anyway, shouldn't it be Godwin's Yet To Be Evaluated Let Alone Proven Theory?

And that goes double for Occam's Razor.

[Sebastian Doyle]

7. That half of the country needs to "fuck off" for about 30 years.

So we can undo the damage they have done to all of us. Including their own ignorant fucking Bible Belt asses.

[Political Heretic]

17. That attitude pretty much sums up why we never fucking get anywhere in America.

[Sebastian Doyle]

20. No, the attitude of continuous "compromise" and "reaching across the aisle" (but only to the right)

explains why we never fucking get anywhere in America.

Chimpy outright steals one election, probably steals, or at best, barely wins the second and claims a mandate which allows him to enact the most extreme agenda in the history of this country, most of it enabled by the votes of spineless DLC pussies.

Barack Obama wins on a campaign of Change, funded by small donations from LIBERAL DEMOCRATS and wins an electoral landslide, and the largest popular vote margin in decades. And then installs a right wing cabinet????????? And has a homophobic dominionist piece of SHIT give the invocation speech?????

When do WE get anywhere in America?

[Political Heretic]

36. Wrong.

[DireStrike]

51. Nice counterargument.

[Political Heretic]

54. Few are offering any intelligent argument at all about this - so I feel no need to exert myself

[FiveGoodMen]

25. I disagree. Dems keep trying to accommodate pukes, moving further and further to the right

until what was once just basic fairness and decency is now considered 'loony left'.

They never retake the ground they give up.

Sorry to say, but I think it's precisely your approach that keeps us from getting anywhere.

[Political Heretic]

37. "My approach" hasn't been tried

Hopefully... Obama will.

[yardwork]

43. I agree. So why are you telling me and millions of others to fuck off?

By supporting the choice of Warren - out of the thousands of others who could have been chosen instead - you're rejecting everybody who cares about human rights.

[girl gone mad]

49. Lol. we've gotten somewhere.

It just isn't somewhere good.

28 years of Right Wing and DLC policy has gotten us here.

ENOUGH!

[kevinbgoode]

9. If it's so fucking pointless, then it wouldn't be considered a goddamn honor

and Rick Warren does not represent "half" the country. You don't invite someone who has dedicated a good portion of his time publicly campaigning for the removal of the rights of other Americans to present an official public ANYTHING. . .especially a PRAYER.

So let me remind you of one thing that the gay community, who mostly supported Obama - is painfully aware of in this new President. He supports heterosupremacist policies. He is for marriage segregation in the form of "civil unions." And he is a supporter of a "separate but equal" philosophy in terms of dealing with my community.

Pretty damned ironic, isn't it? The first half-African-American president elected to the Presidency, and his legacy with the GLBT community is as a promoter of separate-but-equal policies.

Simply astounding.

[LaydeeBug]

38. If it's so pointless, let him "include" a KKK member. This is pure bullshit. nt

[mondo joe]

11. This isn't dialog, dear, this is an honor.

When Obama gives similar honors to known racists let me know.

[Malikshah]

21. Self-hate much. To call it "just a prayer" is to miss the honor being

bestowed upon him.

Billy Graham. Remember him?
Rick Warren is to be the next Billy Graham in the media's eyes.


Pretty clear that you do not understand the big picture here. It is called standing up for what is right. Never wavering. Clear-minded and calmly.

There is nothing inclusive in Rick Warren's bigotry, misogyny, anti-semitic, dominionist thought.

It is the path to oblivion. He'll find that out on the Last Day.

Many of us already know this, and are calling him and those that wish to honor out on it.

It is time for folks to wake up and stand up for what is right.

[Malikshah]

22. ...

[yardwork]

42. Seems to me that the people being told to fuck off are human rights supporters.

Why did Obama elevate this bigoted preacher in this way? There are thousands of other preachers who could have been chosen. By choosing Warren, Obama elevates a dominionist who wants to rewrite the U.S. Constitution to match his idea of the Bible.

Sit down at a table with Rick Warren and other people of faith and have dialogue? Sure. But why choose Warren over every other preacher to symbolically connect the Obama presidency to God?

[girl gone mad]

48. Not everybody. Just extremist bigots.

I'm an atheist, but I would be fine with any number of clergy performing the invocation.

[leftstreet]

3. Christian Nationalism :large puke icon: n/t

[Sandrine for you]

8. At first, I really believed that the Warren's choice was a good

one, I was thinking that it will help to destroy the power of the religion on the politic:

Obama, by taking this choice, is doing what we call a marginalization of the religion's opinion. But your post really opens my eyes. Thanks.

[Hannah Bell]

23. Glad it made a difference to someone. It's not just about gay marriage.

It's literally about the fundamental principles of democracy.

[yardwork]

45. And here I thought that denying rights to an entire group of people

was about the fundamental principles of democracy.

[Hannah Bell]

50. the fundamentals of democracy aren't limited to that item, or the concept of

"groups" of people, no.

there's no reason for you to pick a fight.

[BeFree]

10. Duh!

I guess some folks are just now learning this, but it is fundamental to most religions.
Problem is: way too many of American citizens hold to that fundamental idea. We've got to
communicate with them and show them how wrong they are and get them to repent. Or we're screwed.

[Sandrine for you]

14. Yes but how ?

Fundamental idea seem to be at the core for a large portion of the american first immigration at the beginning.

[BeFree]

19. True

But evolution of societies is also true. We either evolve or we are screwed.

[Hannah Bell]

12. "the distinguishing mark of a dominionist...

is a commitment to defining and carrying out an approach to building society that is self-consciously defined as exclusively Christian, and dependent specifically on the work of Christians, rather than based on a broader consensus....

In 2005, Clarkson enumerated the following characteristics shared by all forms of dominionism:<19>

1. Dominionists celebrate Christian nationalism, in that they believe that the United States once was, and should once again be, a Christian nation. In this way, they deny the Enlightenment roots of American democracy.

2. Dominionists promote religious supremacy, insofar as they generally do not respect the equality of other religions, or even other versions of Christianity.

3. Dominionists endorse theocratic visions, insofar as they believe that the Ten Commandments, or "biblical law," should be the foundation of American law, and that the U.S. Constitution should be seen as a vehicle for implementing Biblical principles."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominionism

[anaxarchos]

31. Unfortunately, it goes far deeper than this...

The modern inventor of Dominionism ("Christian Reconstruction") was R. J. Rushdoony. Rushdoony created a foundation called Chalcedon (which is still around and still run by Rushdoony's son) which was the single most important source of funding for the religious right when it became politically involved in the 1970s. Where Rushdoony learned his "Foundation-craft" was at the Volker Fund, which he worked for before founding Chalcedon. The Volker Fund, in turn, almost single-handidly paid for and brought to light such neo-liberal economists as Hayek, von Mises, and Friedman, as well as Rushdoony. Thus, Christian Reconstruction has at its very core an economic doctrine, called "Christian Libertarianism". Someone on DU called it "Social Darwinism" yesterday but it is far worse than that. It is completely slavish to the rich, to the "free market" and violently anti-union (literally "violently"). Read a bit of Gary North ("Scary Gary" - the leading Christian Libertarian Economist and Rushdoony's son-in-law) and you come up on an ideology that often doesn't sound like a "religion" at all, but the sound of goose steps. This ain't a "conspiracy". It is a confluence of the most right-wing political and economic ideas in a "religious context". Warren is still considered by Chalcedon as one of their "centrists", commercially understandable since Rushdoony decided to take on the look and trappings of an old testament prophet before he died.

These are some of the nastiest people around and make Aryan Nations look like amateurs. Google "Rushdoony", or "Chalcedon", or "Gary North" and be prepared to be amazed.

People keep asking, "What if Nazis were invited to the inaugeration?"

Errr... I hate to break it to ya.

[Hannah Bell]

33. I invite you to elaborate on that here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4686944

[anaxarchos]

34. It's around here somewhere...

I wrote an extended piece on the Volker Fund and "neo-Liberalism" a while ago that someone posted to DU. It should be possible to simply search in GD under "William Volker" or "Volker Fund". I originally had intended to publish a sidebar on Rushdoony and "Christian Libertarian Economics" (which is how I know this shit) but it seemed like overkill after a point... a very bad B-movie script. In any case, I just wrote all that I can remember. I'll have to dig out my notes. Interesting, the focus of your thread, because the Volker piece was precisely about "following the money".

[Hannah Bell]

35. I remember reading it - but I'd prefer you post it (bad form to monopolize one's own threads, I do

if often enough as it is...)

[anaxarchos]

39. I can't find the DU thread on it...

Here is a blog entry on the Volker piece but the DU thread had other material on Rushdoony & company, which I just can't remember - A mind is a terrible thing to waste.

http://www.populistindependent.org/blogs/anaxarchos

[hootinholler]

55. Perhaps it's

This thread?

:shrug:

Lots of good stuff there though. There's also some good Rushdooney info on Theocracy Watch, which is where I first heard of Mr Rushdooney.

-Hoot

[anaxarchos]

57. Yep... thank you.

Now, if I could only find my glasses...

;-)

[Gwendolyn]

41. Thanks for posting that. Those people are truly frightening.

That's why it frustrates me at times that atheist groups focus on Christmas provocations, when it's so important to get this information out there. Americans just aren't aware how dangerous their ideology is, and the rest of the world would be incredulous that such a concept even exists in modern western civilization. They want to bring bring back slavery! It's doable too.


:cry:

[Hannah Bell]

46. Yep, they focus on trivia. The fight over xmas decorations in public places is a red herring,

just raw meat served up purposefully to tick even ordinary religious people off, to keep the culture wars going.

While the theocrats, with whom most ordinary religious people wouldn't agree with either, take more turf by stealth.

We ALL get a diet of trivia, while the things that really matter - & might unite us - are kept in the dark.

[Gwendolyn]

47. Exactly!!! So well said. Atheists should be aligning with moderate religious folks.

Before it's too late.

[glitch]

44. Crikey. I can't tell you how much I hate it when I find out things are actually worse than I thought

I tend to think things are pretty bad as it is.
Thanks for the information though. It is hard to believe Obama can't be aware of this background to Warren (not that he isn't bad enough at present), but this background is utterly horrifying.

[leftofthedial]

13. women, gays, lesbians, those who support stem cell research, anyone who is pro-choice...

I think the Barackster has pissed in the face of about 75% of Americans.

[glitch]

24. Most people aren't aware of the insult so he's probably safe on that aspect.

But inviting someone who is working actively to subvert the Constitution and our Democratic Republic to speak at his inauguration, well, I thought he was smarter than that.
Not just disappointed, sick about it.

[ColbertWatcher]

26. Not to mention scientists.

Dominionists hate stem cell research and the scientists who do the work.

[earth mom]

18. So we are getting Sarah Palins fucking bullshit shoved down our throats after all!

:grr:

:puke:

:mad:

[ColbertWatcher]

28. This is what I thought, too. n/t

[earth mom]

30. I've decided to not watch the inauguration. I was going to, but I don't think I will now.

I refuse to give those bible thumpers my ear. :grr:

[ColbertWatcher]

32. When I first found about Dominionism ...

... is when someone on DU posted the Daily Kos expose on Palin and her "faith."

I was shocked to find out that someone with such fringe beliefs could ascend to the office of governor without there being some national discussion. Then, I thought maybe I missed it.

But, when the campaign moved along, no one mentioned it.

None of the so-called news outlets (read: GOP-controlled mass media) mentioned it--even in an historical context.

I really feel more time should be spent discussing this fringe group and their designs on power in this country.

[kevinbgoode]

52. I won't be watching either. This is not my President.

And I am embarassed and humiliated that I ever let that campaign make me believe that MY community was part of that "hope."

[ColbertWatcher]

27. I guess Americans didn't get the same info about Dominionists as DU and DailyKos did.

Gee, I wonder why?

[Solly Mack]

29. K&R

[yardwork]

40. Been trying to make that point for days. Thank you.

k&r

[hootinholler]

56. Me too

It keeps getting drowned out by all the drama.

-Hoot

[Karenina]

53. Warren is the "new and improved" Jerry Falwell.

:puke:

[kath]

58. Check out this piece about him on Newsvine,

by dogemperor- the person who did a lot of research into Palin's Dominionist ties. Dogemperor is a survivor of a coercive dominionist group, and **extremely** knowledgeable about the movement and all its tentacles.

http://dogemperor.newsvine.com/_news/2008/12/18/2226748-rick-warrens-dirty-dominionist-secrets

[kath]

59. Here is an older article about Warren (2006) from Talk2Action, a site which does a very good

job of tracking the Dominionists:
http://www.talk2action.org/story/2006/6/1/112441/6431

[eppur_se_muova]

60. So he wants to sweep our Constitutional gov't aside? Is that treason or subversion?

Just the sort of "inspiration" we need as we kick the current crop of traitors out the door ...

[Karenina]

61. ...