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Katha Pollitt: "Choice for invocation is a slap in the face to Obama's base"

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 12:38 AM
Original message
Katha Pollitt: "Choice for invocation is a slap in the face to Obama's base"
This is a column by her yesterday in the Merced Sun Times. Pollitt writes for The Nation, and was a guest last week on Rachel Maddow's show.

Choice for invocation is a slap in the face to Obama's base

To understand how angry and disappointed many Democrats are that Barack Obama has invited evangelical preacher Rick Warren to give the invocation at his inauguration, imagine if a President-elect John McCain had offered this unique honor to the Rev. Al Sharpton — or the Rev. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr. I know, it's hard to picture: John McCain would never do that in a million years. Republicans respect their base even when, as in McCain's case, it doesn't really return the favor.

Only Democrats, it seems, reward their most loyal supporters — feminists, gays, liberals, opponents of the war, members of the reality-based community — by elbowing them aside to embrace their opponents instead.


Actually I don't think the Democratic party has done this in the past, not to this extent. It is a fairly new phenomena brought on by conservative Democrats controlling the party's agenda and candidates.

...."Most Americans who've heard of Warren know him as the teddy-bearish, Hawaiian- shirted head of the Saddleback megachurch in Orange County and the author of "The Purpose Driven Life." Perhaps they also know he's the rare right-wing Christian pastor who sometimes talks about poverty and global warming and HIV. His concern for those issues has given him a reputation as a moderate and has made him the darling of Democratic Party think tanks, ever hoping to break the Republican lock on the white evangelical vote. But on the signal issues of the religious right he is, as he himself has said, as orthodox as James Dobson. And as inflammatory. Warren doesn't just oppose gay marriage, he's compared it to incest and pedophilia. He doesn't just want to ban abortion, he's compared women who terminate pregnancies to Nazis and the pro-choice position to Holocaust denial.


Of great concern is his preaching of wifely submission, which has become all too common a tenet in the Southern Baptist Churches. It demeans women, and it shows that those who believe that stuff consider women inferior to men.

Take abortion. Most Americans, whatever their personal feelings, are pro-choice. On Election Day, anti-choice initiatives went down to defeat in all three states where they were on the ballot. Most Americans do not think the one-third of American women who terminate a pregnancy are running a concentration camp in their wombs. Or take marriage. At his Saddleback Church, wifely submission is official doctrine: The church Web site tells women to defer to the husband's "leadership" even when he's wrong on important issues, such as finances Is elevating this male chauvinist how Obama thanks women, who gave him more than half his votes?


That makes two groups who are being talked about as inferior to others in the church. It is a view that says women are incapable of making their own choices about their bodies. Good grief, what would happen if men were treated that way? It also makes another whole group within our party sound like evildoers.

It is inexcusable for one group of people to talk about two other groups of people that way. Most of DU talks about being tired of the discussion. This is not going away. You do not get tired of discussing the discriminations being faced by women and gays in our party. You must not get tired of it.
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 12:44 AM
Response to Original message
1. K & R for the tireless. nt
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StreetKnowledge Donating Member (921 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 01:03 AM
Response to Original message
2. What else is new?
Obama is stuffing his cabinet with Clintonites, when Clinton was little more than a Republican in drag himself. We work our asses off to get him elected, we raise three quarters of a billion dollars to cement it and finally bury the Bush Administration, and look what Obama does.

He wants a homophobe and a chauvinist to deliver the invocation. He wants a guy who spearheaded NAFTA to lead US trade policy. He lets Bush's SecDef keep his job (especially when he shoulda fired Gates' ass and told Wesley Clark to move into the Pentagon). One "moderate" after another, which is dumb when those moderates were not the people who got him elected.

Who went out and fought for Obama against McCain's attack ads? Who did our damnedest to paint him as the logical choice to the flopping, pandering, soul-selling idiot the Republicans put up? US LIBERALS DID! But do we get respect? Not a bit.

Is anyone going to be surprised if Obama's administration is a failure and we have another Christian Rightie Republican in the White House in four years? Barack, forget about those middle-class white guys in the GOP. THEY DIDN'T VOTE FOR YOU. Rick Warren damn sure did not vote for you. The Republicans tried every nasty trick for a year to make you look bad, and we helped you brush it off. Remember the right-wing gasbags spending months talking about how you weren't an American at all? That you were a terrorist for knowing Bill Ayers? That you were screwing with birth certificates? That you were complicit with Rod Blagojevich (may that crooked piece of shit rot in prison) in selling your seat and that you were gonna fire Patrick Fitzgerald to cover Blagojevich's ass? Rush Limbaugh says your ideas caused this economic mess, and millions of his dittohead listeners actually believe him.

These clowns went so far as to say you killed your mother to get elected! (That was Coulter and Hannity, IIRC.)

And you reward our loyalty by pandering to these sons of bitches?

I am probably going to get in hot water for saying this, but I hope Pelosi shows off some balls and forces changes through Congress and to hell with the DLC traitors, and if Obama doesn't play ball then he can answer for it in 2012. America is being destroyed by rightous cocksuckers who hate homosexuals, minorities and women, and by the Dems who haven't got the memo and figured that America's direction is forward. We voted for Liberals, not the DLC jerkoffs, and they need to learn what time it is.

In 2010, let's vote those DLC traitors out. They wanna be red, let 'em. And let's make it clear to Pelosi and Reid that they have a job to do, and that is to lead the country, since Obama so far is just showing himself to be too accommodating for his own good. His GOP "friends" WILL stab him in the back.

This shouldn't be news to any of us, or the country tired of 14 years of the Gingrich/Bush/Cheney/Delay bible-thumpers, but somehow, it seems to be to the man elected, with the largest number of votes of any candidate EVER, needs to get that message.

Barack, please. Actually stand for the change you spoke of. You got four years as President, and two for sure with a friendly Congress and Senate. Don't waste it.
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Bette Noir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-27-08 12:17 AM
Response to Reply #2
33. That's some rant.
Too bad I can't "recommend" a response.
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 01:37 AM
Response to Original message
3. I'm not tired of it. K and R. nt
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RandomKoolzip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 01:40 AM
Response to Original message
4. Great editorial. Kicked.
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Vanje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 01:55 AM
Response to Original message
5. KiCk! nt
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silverojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 02:30 AM
Response to Original message
6. Yet everyone's tired of hearing about people in poverty
Check out the Poverty forum, if you want to hear some crickets.

The reason I'm tired of this is that nobody here seems to care about people who are in urgent need of help.

I'm a woman and a lesbian, and yes--I'm tired of this story. Warren's an asshole, but when push comes to shove, Obama's going to pass laws that will benefit women and gays...and people in need. Warren's 13th-century opinions won't change Obama's agenda or his actions.

January 20th isn't half as important as January 21st and onward. That's what everybody seems to be forgetting.

I've heard of sore losers, but sore winners?
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 02:52 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. I am not lesbian, but I am a woman.
I have seen what happens in churches and communities when the right wing is given free rein to set standards.

I resent the idea that I am not considered worthy to make my own decisions about health care. I won't be needing an abortion, and I don't need birth control at my age.....but I have a very religious doctor who frowns on HRT..hormone replacement therapy. She just thinks anything like that is wrong.

When two groups are seeing the Democratic party fail them, it causes problems. When women see the party is raising funding for abstinence only, denying women on military bases emergency contraception....and planning to reduce abortions by 95%....then there are serious problems.

I did not know there was a poverty forum. But I know hubby and I do our share locally. I know the faith based programs are not working as they should, and that some are deprived of aid unless they declare their salvation.

We supported Obama in every way, and there is nothing wrong with speaking out when we think things are not going just right.

He's a good man, I trust him. I am not blind, though, and the conservative Democrats have a firm hold on him already.

I am tired also, but I see danger looming if that many people are marginalized.
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Creideiki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 09:13 AM
Response to Reply #6
12. Hmmm.
"Obama's going to pass laws that will benefit women and gays...and people in need."

Got some proof on that? The easiest of gay civil rights issues, repealing DADT is now pushed back at least a year, most likely until 2010, which is--*gasp* AN ELECTION YEAR! CAN'T HELP GAY PEOPLE DURING AN ELECTION YEAR! IT WILL RALLY THE FAR RIGHT!!!!11!!! That doesn't even count the more contentious repeal of DOMA. Both of these will, surprise, surprise, help with issues of poverty in the gay community. And still, neither of those really competes with poverty, Two Americas, or the economy. There are a lot of committees in Congress, and signing a bill takes a little under 2 seconds. (My name is much longer and only takes 2 seconds.)

So you're presenting the logical fallacy of the False Dilemma. This isn't an either-or proposition. It's possible to do more than one thing at a time.
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racaulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #6
17. That's right! And people that are not active in the GLBT forum don't care about gay rights.
And those that are not active in the Choice forum don't care about women's rights or maintaining the legality of their reproductive choices.

And those that are not active in the Civil Liberties forum don't care about the PATRIOT Act.

And those that are not active in the Seniors forum don't care about the health care, wellbeing, and quality of life of our senior citizens.

And those that are not active in the Native Americans group don't care about the rights of Native Americans, their histories, or the preservation of their indigenous cultures.

And those that are not active in the Exercise and Fitness group don't lead active lifestyles and don't make personal commitments to fitness.

And those that are not active in the Books: Fiction group don't read fiction and don't care for literature.

And those that are not active in the Wisconsin state group don't care about keeping fine Democrats like Russ Feingold and Tammy Baldwin in office, and don't care about Wisconsin's state politics and local happenings.

:sarcasm: <---just in case it's needed for the above.

Bottom line, you don't know JACK about what the majority of people here do IRL in our personal lives to help with the issues of poverty and homelessness. And you cannot realistically measure our commitment to those issues based on our involvement in one single online forum in one single discussion board. Your REPEATED insistence to the contrary is not only highly inaccurate, but incredibly insulting.
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #6
27. Are you still reposting this crap? Why don't you answer our critiques of this silliness?
What makes you think that LGBT people aren't IN URGENT NEED OF HELP? After caring for post-Ike family and friends, fighting for labor, fighting for real substantive change in economic policy, you have some nerve always running around threads complaining that LGBT people don't give a damn about poverty.

How come the Zapatistas managed to resist the displacement and starvation of 28 million indigenous people in Mexico in the 90s AND deal with homophobia and sexism in their communities AND support LGBT people abroad, yet you think LGBT issues somehow are the ONLY STRUGGLE competing with the survival of the damn lumpenproletariat? Not to mention that 40% of urban homeless youth are LGBT kids. Not to mention that straight people EARN more than LGBT people per studies by the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force.

You know why no one gives a shit about poverty on DU? Not because of GAY PEOPLE. It's because more and more people on DU are "moderates" and "moderates" tend to think of the poor in similar ways as conservatives do: they're lazy or they're the detritus of a "broken system" that it'll take years to 'set right' or--here's a big one these days on DU--"the world's overpopulated, some will live and some will die."

Other people aren't concerned with poverty BECAUSE THEY LIVE IN POVERTY.

As a lesbian who LIVES UNDER THE POVERTY LINE, I wish you'd stop blaming the lack of interest in poverty on LGBT people. Do you really think these anti-marriage democrats choosing to argue the fine points of semantics about civil unions really give more of a shit about poor people than LGBT people do?
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. so many great points jammed into one post.
:yourock:
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donco6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. Yes.
I've read those same comments several times today as well. Others have questioned her posts, but no answers, just reposting, reposting. How cowardly.
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racaulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-27-08 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #27
36. I wish I could recommend this reply.
I also wish Silverojo would respond, just once, to the criticisms were are making. Apparently she's more interested in making baseless accusations without merit against a group of DUers. A simple search will show that she's not very active in the Poverty forum either, just sayin'...

Then again, it may be hard for her to type when she's determined to wield such a wide brush.
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 02:46 AM
Response to Original message
7. Rick frigging barefoot-and-pregnant Warren
and yet females here are still defending Obama's choice.

Truly amazing.
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 03:31 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. Because for some odd reason they don't see it as affecting them.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #11
19. It's an all-encompassing mindset...that some are not as equal as others.
You are right. It affects not just the gays, it affects the role of women in our society when churches refer to them as less important.

It's a mindset that does not embrace equality.

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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 03:04 AM
Response to Original message
9. K&R
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 03:31 AM
Response to Original message
10. Kick. This should NOT go away. This isn't a "fringe " issue.
This goes to the heart of civil rights.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 11:58 PM
Response to Reply #10
31. Yeah, folks here think women, Catholics and Jews are "fringe." nt
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 09:21 AM
Response to Original message
13. Well, I am tired of...
...being called a bigot, a gay basher, and a in lockstep follower.

All that damned hyperbole -- I'm tired of.

I'm tired of being blamed for not fixing the ills of this society.

And gawd damned tired of dems eating their own.

But will never be tired of fighting for the rights of all humans to be free of all that bullshit.
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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
14. Well, yes it is, but Obama's base seem generally willing to ignore it...
...as a "gay" thing.
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 10:18 AM
Response to Original message
15. I will not tire of it
and its not going to go away..this choice set a precedent..unfortunately, along with some of the other choices he is making..escalation of war, center right advisors..if this new admin. isnt called on the carpet for these things, they will keep doing them. why would anyone tire of healthy discourse? thats what its all about. challenge, discourse, disagreement, not just thinking like some sheep following its leader.
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Truth Teller Donating Member (479 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 11:06 AM
Response to Original message
16. Actually, it was a brilliant choice
He was doing gays a favor by promoting a homophobe. He's being clever and progressive in ways we can't understand.

:sarcasm:
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Hydra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
18. Anyone "tired" of this discussion is just using another trick to try and silence people
A goodly number of people here would be happy to see this issue go away by having the LBGTs, women and everyone else affected by Warren's agenda shut up and accept what's coming down the pike.

HELL NO.
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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 02:28 PM
Response to Original message
20. Obama appoints free traders and NAFTA lovers to his cabinet and all "progressives"
care is about is fucking Rick Warren giving a two minute invocation at Obama's inauguration? :eyes:

(NOTE: I despise the DLC and all "New" Democrats.)
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. When we protested
the appointments, we were told, "They won't make policy. OBAMA will make policy. Give him a chance. Wait."

In spite of the fact that his stated and written policy positions are a perfect match for his "new" administration.

There's always a reason to squelch dissent. I think Warren is getting more play because he's more concrete than protesting his appointments for what they will do in the future.

Meanwhile, for your enjoyment:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4716530
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Luminous Animal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. Despite rumors to the contrary....
"progressives" can walk and chew gum at the same time.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #20
32. He won the election, in part, on symbolism, and now he's giving Warren the chance to piss on it.
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-27-08 01:29 AM
Response to Reply #20
34. If people can't comprehend why Warren is a disaster, you think they get the ECONOMY?
Come on. It's not like the people fighting Warren are also DLCers. If people can't figure out why promoting a guy who is anti-choice, calls gay folks pedophiles, and calls Christians fighting for poverty initiatives 'Marxists'...chances are they aren't going to grasp the finer points of public vs private and NAFTA.

Rick Warren is a visible symbol of all these failures. Instead of fighting against other progressives, try fighting the gay-bashing DLCers on this board and joining together with the progressive gay folks.
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Le Taz Hot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 06:57 AM
Response to Reply #20
46. Um, noooooo.
Progressives were the FIRST to condemn Obama's "centrist" cabinet picks. We were the first to point out that Obama's cabinet picks were absolutely wrong on all major issues including the war and the Wall Street bailout. Rick Warren is just one of many alarm bells going off. You're pissin' on the wrong group there, bud.
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 07:51 AM
Response to Reply #46
47. Warren could be uninvited tomorrow. Summers, Geithner, and Kirk will remain. When are the protests
planned? :shrug:
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 03:42 PM
Response to Original message
22. recommend
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 05:24 PM
Response to Original message
24. I'm not tired.
:)

:kick:
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1776Forever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
25. Rick Warren = Power Grab for Faith Based Monies - While showing dangerous behavior on gay issues
Edited on Fri Dec-26-08 06:16 PM by 1776Forever
in Africa and the out-and-out abhorred way he professes to women to take abuse from their husbands!

Links to prove my statements:

The Global Ambition of Rick Warren
By David Van Biema
TIME Magazine

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1830147,00.html

And Untold Consequences: Rick Warren's AIDS Activism
Kathryn Joyce on December 19, 2008

http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/blog/2008/12/19/untold-consequences-rick-warrens-aids-activism

...........

Warren has gotten Hillary, Bono, W, Obama and many others on his side - read the Time article! He is out for the BIG Faith-Based Money! I will be damned if I am not going to try to do all I can to get this message out!

:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. from you 2nd article.
"But churches anxious to follow Warren's lead didn't want to provide comprehensive HIV prevention services, such as safer sex education or condoms, so they lobbied for PEPFAR funding policy to be interpreted narrowly, creating stand-alone abstinence-until-marriage programs out of the law's 30% abstinence-only earmark. The new faith-based arm of the AIDS movement Warren had energized asked for, and got, a number of obstacles to prevention services: a prohibition on needle exchange programs for drug users; a ban family planning services in Prevention of Mother to Child Transmission clinics; and the anti-prostitution loyalty oath, which required all groups receiving PEPFAR funding, including those that work with sex workers, to condemn prostitution. As with conscience clauses, Jacobson says, this ideological interpretation of PEPFAR became a source of U.S. funding that "allows groups or organizations to avoid having to provide prevention treatment or care according to evidence-based criteria." The Elizabeth Glaser Pediatric AIDS Foundation has stated that "PEPFAR has been successful not because of provisions such as the mandatory abstinence set-aside, but in spite of them."
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1776Forever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #26
30. Warren's iron fist rules ....
It all goes back to Warren's "dream". This must get out there before he sets himself up as the "it" man for this program in the Obama Administration and gets his way with the hatred programs he encourages on gays and the maligning of abused women! As the article states it was Warren who "sold" W on the HIV/AIDS program - PEPFAR.

Thank you madfloridian for your courage to speak up! It would be so much easier to ignore this.

:fistbump:
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-27-08 01:45 AM
Response to Original message
35. Organized patriarchal religion is dangerous to all but elite males ---
time to let it fall ---
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Cass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-27-08 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
37. Warren believes divorce should only be allowed for 2 reasons: abandonment or infidelity. No mention
of abuse at all. That is extremely disturbing. Katha Pollitt was on Rachel's show a few days ago and talked about this.

Choosing Rick Warren for the invocation honors him and implies a silent consent to his bigoted views about GLBT and women. I don't know what Obama was thinking when he picked him. It's one thing to invite Warren to join committee discussions or whatever but to honor him like this is just wrong.
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judesedit Donating Member (450 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-27-08 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
38. Obama's base includes many diverse believers
Who cares what Rick Warren said in the past. It is the present, after this awakening, that we have to concern ourselves with. He is only saying a prayer, which, I am sure, will include all peoples and ask for divine guidance in Obama's decision making. Divine guidance does NOT come from Rick Warren. It comes from GOD. NOT GOP. G O D. Warren will NOT be in any of Obama's cabinet positions and not be an advisor. Your behavior on this is overshadowing the injustice suffered with the passage of Prop 8. You should be directing your energies to raising money to hire a good group of lawyers to overturn the Prop 8 Amendment. You may be surprised at the support you get. Also, as was mentioned about abortion. No matter what is said, in the end there will be MANY people who believe abortion is sacrilegious and should be unlawful, and will use any and many ways of describing it. In this day and age, just about everyone is touched positively by the life of someone living the GLBT lifestyle. Have faith that these people will support you in your fight for equality. Do not let this Rick Warren throw you all into a tizzy. You are not going to like everything about every person chosen for Obama's team, either. Just hope that whoever is chosen will have whatever specific knowledge is required to correct the devastation this country is experiencing right now.

By the way, Joseph Lowery is offering the benediction. He includes GLBT in his flock. Why are you not commending him?

I respect Barack's choice to include both of these men in his inauguration ceremony. He is a uniter, not a divider. Obama knows that education is the key to knowledge and understanding and kindness is the way to win hearts and minds.
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rpannier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 05:43 AM
Response to Reply #38
43. Joseph Lowery is offering the benediction. He includes GLBT in his flock. Why are you not commending
him?

Simple, for the same reason you don't commend someone for sticking with his weight loss program by drinking diet cola with the box of Oreos he just ate...

Having a progressive does not negate having a neanderthal, homophobe up there as well.
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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 06:26 AM
Response to Reply #38
45. Will Warren's prayer include the non-religious?
We make up fifteen percent or more of the population, will Warren, or Obama for that matter, even mention those who are non religious?

If not then your claim that Warren's prayer will "include all peoples" is total bullshyte.

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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-27-08 12:31 PM
Response to Original message
39. Poverty is number one issue in the world. Warren forced evangelicals to face it in 2005. My face is
just fine.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-27-08 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. So happy for you.
Glad you are just fine while so many others are hurting.

Warren has good things on his side, but his fanatical issues of gays and womens' rights negate a lot of what else he does.

Someone just shared this link with me. Warren's words.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8036345&mesg_id=8037256
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-27-08 03:26 PM
Response to Original message
41. Give up? I have not yet begun to fight. no words
Edited on Sat Dec-27-08 03:26 PM by ooglymoogly
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Rudyabdul Donating Member (52 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-27-08 05:44 PM
Response to Original message
42. I went to Change.Gov website to see Obama's position on Gay Rights....
... and from what I've read, what Obama is letting Warren on Jan. 20 is NOTHING compared to http://change.gov/agenda/civil_rights_agenda/">his plans to restore the rights of GLBT community.

It's a good read. Perhaps you should go there.
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rpannier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-08 05:46 AM
Response to Reply #42
44. I have read it
And I'll say what I say about any politician...

When they do it then I'll believe it.

They say lots of things, but when they have to take the heat...they become less sure of their position.

Kind of like his position on FISA. Feb 2008 solidly opposed to it. Summer 2008, the solid support withered.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
48. Someone shared a link with me to a Daily Kos post about Joel's Army
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dana_b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #48
49. man... that makes me ill
1 billion foot soldiers? riiiight. that will work. In the meantime... send us your money!!!! :eyes:
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