Are you man enough to take a walk in my shoes?

[Sub Atomic]

By 1992 I lost over 50 of my friends to HIV/AIDS.

I cannot even begin to tell you how losing your entire social network affects you.


For me, I put my rage into supporting the policies and actions of ACT UP!

You may or may not agree with that groups premise or actions or mindset. For me, I was fucking sick and tired of seeing my friends die.

Do any of you know what it's like to lose between 4 and 8 friends a month for over 2 years in a row? Do you know what it's like to cry at so many funerals/memorials that you just can't cry anymore?

Don't tell me you've walked a mile in my shoes until you've actually had to walk a mile in my shoes. The past 10 years will be a nice walk through the park; do you have the balls to go beyond that?

Those of you that want to try to pooh-pooh away my experience: what would you do if you were in my shoes?

[Vanje]

1. K&R

I'm happy to see that you're still here posting

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

2. I would be driven to find a purpose

You have found yours through Act Up--more power to you.

[trickyguy]

3. I've walked that walk. Lost many, many friends to AIDS.

Started to keep track for some bizarre, anally-retentive reason and

ended up with three pages of lined note paper with a name on each line of a friend

or close acquaintance who had died of AIDS. I started to become immune to what was going

on in my community. But I knew it was bringing me down too far and so I moved from Chicago

to a rural Wisconsin community where none of the gay men were sick or dying.

But I have walked in your shoes and the collective sorrow I feel for both of us is immense.

[Sub Atomic]

8. Thanks Trickyguy. I am so very sorry for your loss.

The assholes on this board that think that we're 'just whining' about our experiences and loss can FUCK OFF!!

I am sick that this board continues to support homophobic bigotry and hate towards my community.

[TomInTib]

4. I couldn't say, for I have never been in your shoes, dweeb.

But I would sure as hell walk alongside of you.

And I would protect your/our right to do so, to the bitter end.

Tom

[racaulk]

5. K&R

My condolences for your many, many losses. Reagan's legacy on HIV and AIDS is shameful.

:pals:

[Deja Q]

6. Or me in mine

Look, we all have issues. We all get pooh-poohed.

I'm sorry your other thread got locked. I had nothing to do with it.

I will say this: Help educate people and tell them to use as much protection as possible. Don't cheat on their significant others. Choose significant others carefully. Abstain even, even though that A-word is pooh-poohed too damn often, and I will say that too. I am sick and tired of being told, because I openly speak up against cheaters and casual sex that I am devolved. By others in my so-called community. G-L-B-T. You cannot have it both ways. You can respect others and educate and prevent the spreading of disease. Or do nothing and then cry because more get it.

The fact somebody in another forum asked if they were in a relationship with me and would they cheat and a ton of people answered "yes", don't expect me to have too much sympathy anymore. At least top those who answered "yes", they're about as progressive as radioactive dirt.

People DO need to be more respectful and conscientious of each other. And that includes sexual issues too. I am not unsympathetic. For me NOT to respond would be genuine proof of that.

Flame all you want. HIV is still more preventable than diabetes or cancer. And by 2008, one has to make a conscious effort to AVOID getting information on the subject.

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

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[zeemike]

7. You know there probably a million stories out there

like yours and so many more that are at least equally tragic as yours.
Kids from broken homes, kids that have lost there parents and have no home...Whole families lousing there homes with no support from anyone...and they go one and one...and no one wants to walk in those shoes but some time we are chosen by fate to wear them.

This is not to minimize your situation but to point out that life is not fair and it is made less fair by not having a government that is working FOR us not them.
But a lot of us have tragic tails to tell and no one can walk in your shoes because they are on your feet, and only you can walk in them.

I am truly sorry that you lost your friends but I can't bring them back,only console you. If you have faith it would be easy because I would tell you that you will see them again...and if not just tell you to remember the good times...

[Sub Atomic]

10. Unfortunately, there are hundreds, if not thousands, of GLBT youth that are kicked out of their home

every year.

Yeah, my family disowned my back in the early 80s. That is what it is.


Making my life 'less fair' by a pair of bigoted parents just adds to the hilarity of it all.

Right?

[zeemike]

13. Hillarity?...what are you talking about?

There is noting funny in any of this.

But suddenly I feel the flames about to Begin so if you alert the Mods you can tell them they have my permission to delete my posts.
I do not want to offend or be offended.

[Sub Atomic]

15. I'm not going to flag your post to the Mods unless you try to minimize what I'm going through.

I made the comment 'Let the Hilarity Ensue' for all of the fucking assholes out there that think that a faggot living with AIDS is the penultimate of hilary.




Isn't that right, poster whose name shall not be repeated in this post? Aren't fags dying of AIDS the ultimate in righteous hilarity?

On edit: fixed for clarity regarding 'dying of' AIDS and 'living with' AIDS.

[HillbillyBob]

30. Dweeb, My family disowned me in 81, I have responded on glbt

We did not have civil contact until a few years ago. Its better now.
Don't have any friends left from the old days. all are dead.

[HillbillyBob]

31. Dweeb, My family disowned me in 81, I have responded on glbt

We did not have civil contact until a few years ago. Its better now.
Don't have many friends left from the old days, one is living , several are missing I presume have died , and the rest are gone. I attended so many funerals. I tried keeping a list, but could not bear to try to keep up. Deep depression and despair, I have been diagnosed for 25 years now and when the gene code test came out I was told that I had been likely pos 5-8 years before the pos. I was never an iv drug user, but did have my moments of sleazy, but a now ex and I split right after I found he was playing round all over on business trips, the timing is right...I have been a trial guinea pig for the drugs as they came out. I am doing ok pretty much.
My partner moved to a place in the woods I have to travel to get medical care as there is nothing local.
After 19 years in Fort Laud, we could not cope any more, with the death, dislocation and others drug use and we did not know anyone anymore.

[hobbit709]

12. I lost 20 of my classmates from 1968 in one year from that "dirty little war"

I've lost 6 friends in the past year to cancer. My little brother has been HIV+ since 1983-he's lucky I guess to still be alive and well. You have to go on living. I remember them all.

[zeemike]

16. I lost a few friends to Viet Nam also

And it does hurt. especially when you know if was a total waste.

[Greyhound]

46. ...and yet your whole reply does nothing but minimize his pain.

:eyes:

[LeftyMom]

11. I may be losing a friend right now.

She's pretty young, and last I heard her test results were still fairly good, but she's suffering organ failure and is in a nursing home with people twice her age. She keeps asking about her cats. I think she's more afraid of leaving them than she is of dying.

She's not the first. Not the fiftieth, but not the first either.

:hug:

[Warpy]

14. I loved ACT-UP

We started to invite them into the hospitals in 88 or so to educate people and to have brainstorming sessions on how we could help each other.

I especially remember their "Adventures of Bleach Man" comics aimed at not the gay community but the drug community on how to keep works cleaner and safer. They did the basic grass roots stuff with the disease that nobody in a prissy Republican government would touch and which undoubtedly saved lives.

Nobody who wasn't in the trenches one way or another in the 80s and early 90s has a clue how bad it was.

If anything, I admired their restraint.

[Sub Atomic]

17. Warpy, thank you for your support.

LOL. I remember 'Bleach Man' and how 'he' was going to rid the world of AIDS.

:cry:

[apocalypsehow]

18. Context, please. Thanks. n/t.

[Sub Atomic]

19. What the fuck kind of context do you need?

The GLBT Community has been dismisses as more "whining" and "pissing and moaning" regarding Obama's choice of Rick Warren combined with the passing or Proposition 8 in California.

Do I really need to spell it out further?

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

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[Sub Atomic]

21. So obviously you don't give a fuck about the concerns of the GLBT community.

Why did you bother to reply to this thread?

Are you trying to flame bait me?

[apocalypsehow]

22. Because that's EXACTLY what I said, right?

:eyes:

Go snivel and pout to someone else; you're boring me.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[emilyg]

32. I see your hobby is skydiving. Be careful.

Bad karma has a way of kicking ass.

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

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[dysfunctional press]

26. when exactly did GD become the expanded glbt forum?

:shrug:

[cliffordu]

39. When the real outrage turned into masturbatory fauxrage.

[dysfunctional press]

53. "real outrage" ?

"masturbatory fauxrage" ?

:shrug:

[cliffordu]

55. There are some here who are content to do nothing more than shit the nest.

There is genuine reason for outrage in this country at this time.

But 15 people showed up at the protest at Warrens' church. Where is the outrage in the streets?

Was it THAT difficult to get off of one's outraged ass and DO something??

I wonder how many of the fauxraged believe that the incessant attacks here actually inform or educate or do

ANYTHING to help right the wrongs.


Let the name calling begin.

[dysfunctional press]

57. i can't get outraged over the warren thing.

as a straight atheist from a bit north of the bible belt- he's never even been on my radar. until the brouhahahahahaha over his invocation at obama's party- i had never even heard of the guy.

if obama wants him there, that's good enough for me for the time being...anything else will have to wait unti i/we all hear what words he chooses when he steps up to the mic.

[hunter]

69. I question your atheist credentials...

Dropping God from the basic Christian Fundamentalist framework doesn't make one an atheist, it makes one a Fundamentalist who doesn't believe in God.

If you want to be an atheist you've got to rebuild a lot of your ethical system from the ground up.

Since you don't see any big problem with Rick Warren, I'm guessing you've got a lot of rebuilding to do.

[dysfunctional press]

72. so- now there's an ethical belief system required for atheism...?

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

ALL religious types are utterly insignifigant to me- i have NO concern/respect/OR problems with ANYTHING that comes out of ANY of their mouths- because they mean NOTHING to me.

(maybe you should stick to trying to get your head out of your ass- it seems like a much more urgent consideration on your part)

[hunter]

81. Damn straight there is.

Sophisticated ethical systems are a distinguishing feature of human societies.

I'm a biologist, and I'm absolutely certain human altruism arises from strictly evolutionary adaptations, and that the basic biology of altruism is little different than you might find in other social animals such as dogs or dolphins, but I also know ethical systems can be taught, even engineered and extended to include not only our own small biological networks of family and community, but humanity at large.

Symbols are important to human beings, they are the basis of our communication. The symbol of Rick Warren reading the invocation is offensive to many people, and rightfully so.

At our best we can force Warren to back out of this, and if we can't, well at least we can make this the windshield his greater political ambitions splattered against.

We don't need another Billy Graham. That position of political power needs to be closed permanently, and anyone who seeks it must be viewed with great suspicion.

You can take that back to your church.

[dysfunctional press]

86. "You can take that back to your church."

maybe you should invest in a remedial, large-type dictionary...and start with the word "atheism"

btw- where do i find info regarding the governing body that sets down the tenets for atheists...? :shrug:

-i never realized there was one...i guess that i've been going 'renegade' all this time.

[hunter]

88. The chasm between anti-intellectual Christianity and atheism is vast.

The leap is dangerous, and the anti-intellectualism weighs a person down.

Cast off the anti-intellectualism and try again...

[yardwork]

58. You're doing quite a bit of name-calling yourself.

[cliffordu]

59. Hmm.....

Tell the class what names those would be.

[cliffordu]

87. Crickets.

[baby_mouse]

68. I think it's time to establish thread quotas per subject.

Otherwise what we're dealing with is nothing more than your perception. As I type I can see 2 threads pertaining to gay issues on the GD front page.

If you don't like gay threads, you don't actually have to look at them.

[dysfunctional press]

71. other topics that have dungeons..er..forums get sent there directly.

israel/palestine, religion, etc...

glbt issues don't seem to get the same treatment AT ALL.

where's the fairness in that? :shrug:

[baby_mouse]

74. Historically, gay issue threads aren't usually as flammable.

But over the past few years, a hardcore of fools have started targetting gay threads for reasons known only to themselves with things like: "Get over it" and "stop whining", which are obviously inflammatory. I'm not sure what they expect to happen, really.

If you feel sufficiently strongly about the subject, you could, of course, contact the admins and ask them if they would consider sending everything related to homosexuality to the GLBT forum. Or you could start a thread on the subject in GD. I'd be very interested in the result.

I can't help but observe the irony in marginalising one sub-community of DU in order to promote "reaching out" and creating more "unity" - not that I'm accusing you of that, I don't know what your position is with regards to Obama's "unity" drive.

[Greyhound]

40. Please, just ignore this piece of flotsam.

Just another long-time baiter that exists only to stir up shit.

[baby_mouse]

75. Quite so. NT

[HillbillyBob]

28. Could it be the context of watching everyone you know die from aids?

nt

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

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[baby_mouse]

65. None necessary.

The OP is entirely clear.

[uppityperson]

85. "Context, please."? Context? what the heck?

Either you didn't read the OP or you are clueless.

Edited to add, on searching I don't think either of those applies to you.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[Lugnut]

33. I'm so sorry.

I lost two friends to HIV/AIDS but that was two too many. :hug:

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

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[aikoaiko]

36. Wow, this thread turned to pooh.

The mods must all be out drinking sleeping. ;)

[cliffordu]

38. I lost 12 friends to AIDS.

Some gay, some not.

It is not strictly a GLBT disease.


After reading your assaults on other posters I think if you were telling the truth, you'd know that.


Who among us HASN'T lost friends to disease or violence or Suicide before their time??

Oh, yeah, IBTL.

[Name removed]

44. Deleted message

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[cliffordu]

45. I have no idea why you needed to ask me these questions, Ask the OP

(original poster)

[Name removed]

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[undeterred]

49. OP is the Original Post

or Original Poster

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

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[cliffordu]

51. No sweat. Welcome to DU!!

[cliffordu]

52. Or, in my case at times, original pinhead.

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

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[cliffordu]

56. You'll notice as you weather the incessant barrage of stuff being flung that your

skin will get thicker.

It's a tragedy, really. I thought we would all get more genteel and understanding after the election.

Good luck.

[baby_mouse]

67. Patsyanne, there are current 2, count them, *2* threads on the GD front page pertaining to HIV.

Is that too many for you?

[polmaven]

82. IBTL is

"In Before The Lock"....obviously referring to the poster's intention that the thread should be locked by the mods.

K & R means "Kick and Recommend". Look at the OP - Original Post - and at the bottom left of the post is the "Recommend" button. To "Kick" is to reply to a thread, or post in the thread, pushing it back to the top of the list in the Forum on which it was written.

[Greyhound]

41. In 1980 all but one of my male friends was gay, by 1990 they were all dead.

Ron
Steve
Paul
Mario
Curt
Terry
Glen
Mike
Mike
Michael
Don
Clint
John
Pat
Ray
The two Toms
Berni
Dominick
Stevie
Richard
Scott
Eli
Manny
Steven
Ronnie

You are missed.:cry:

FUCK RAYGUN!! You were a worthless piece of shit and I wish I could believe in Hell so at least I could know you were getting what you deserve.

[cliffordu]

42. Yep. Fucking Reagan couldn't even bring himself to say the word.

I wish he'd been forced to live with the same health care the rest of us got.

[MazeRat7]

43. Nobody has the market on death - it strikes with a vengence across all walks of life.

Constant death is not unique, there are many that have walked several miles in your virgin shoes.

Peace,
MZr7

[Name removed]

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[bunnies]

60. Inasmuch as I have no "balls"...

I am clearly not "man enough". But maybe if I'm lucky, some big strong balls-haver will hold my hand and keep me safe. :eyes: For now though, I'll just go back to cowering in the corner.

[cali]

61. All I can say

is that you have my deepest sympathies. No, I can't imagine what you went through.

[Name removed]

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[alfredo]

63. Most of my social circle has died from drugs and gun violence. It hurts.

I can't imagine what it was like for you, the gnawing fear that you will die alone, that all those you love will not be with you in those final years.


I remember in the early eighties, a neighbor had a boyfriend staying with him. He'd been sick for a long time and had to depend on the kindness of friends to keep him fed. I remember going into the room and seeing his friend was covered with purple splotches. At that time there was no name for AIDS, but I did find out that he had Kaposi's sarcoma.

[shrike]

64. I am so, so sorry

When I was in college in the late 70s, early 80s, many young men were just coming out, exploring their newly-acknowledged sexuality.

Twenty-five years later I've lost touch, but wonder how many of them are still alive. I'm sorry. No other words.

[slackmaster]

66. Your story reminds me of that of a former coworker

He lived in New York City, and lost all of his friends to AIDS during the '80s.

He moved to California to start over.

[cbc5g]

70. Is this a pity post or are you trying to challenge someone to show how they have it worse than you?

I know you are sad, but your post sounds pretty accusatory and arrogant.

[baby_mouse]

78. I've been involved in relationships with folk from ACT UP some time after it all faded.

And I have some idea what they went through. I think a lot of people who weren't involved at the time and don't know what happened have an unfortunate tendency to treat that era of the history of gay rights as if it's like any other argument about teh gays.

Take it from me, this:

"Is this a pity post or are you trying to challenge someone to show how they have it worse than you?

I know you are sad, but your post sounds pretty accusatory and arrogant."

... reveals something in you that you don't know is there. But we can see it.

[hunter]

73. Too many people can't or won't imagine the horror.

I was working in a medical field, and I had gay friends and family.

:cry:

Some people, for example ROT IN HELL _{ronald reagan}, just shut the horror out, which is incredible to me since reagan had former friends and colleagues who were dying. That, maybe more than anything else, says to me reagan was an empty fearful man.

After horrors like the AIDS epidemic or the war in Viet Nam, how is it possible for people to minimize these things? How is it possible to look upon organizations such as ACT UP! or Veterans for Peace as political troublemakers?

I don't know.

[CTyankee]

76. My guess is that Holocaust survivors would be able to speak with you about this.

I don't know how I would be able to ever live a "normal" life if I were in their shoes. It's no wonder that many of them committed suicide...

[HillbillyBob]

90. Actually I have spoke to Holocaust survivors who compared

What was happening as being very similar. That gays and Jews were vilified,
made to feel less than human.
I had an uncle who had survived Buchenwald, his mother was shot in their front door as she tried to hold it against the nazis trying to get in to take the rest of the family his father was killed out of hand as they stormed through, his brother and sisters died in the camp. I had several cousins die in Viet Nam and some who came back less than whole.
All of this represents the cruelty humans visit on each other and for what?
More power over others, greed, simple cruel shits and grins?
I don't profess to know. What I do know is that when the time comes and others stand idly by they might as well have joined in. That is a bit simple. Some feel powerless to do anything or are afraid that they will be next and some snicker with glee, or speak righteous bullshit like the victim deserves what happens rather than the fact that the perpetrators are WRONG!

[CTyankee]

92. It is true. The gays died just as the Jews and gypsies died.

However, my point was to the OPs idea of how to react. His was anger and I had hoped that the reaction could be more reflective than that, after, of course, a release of anger and emotion which is totally appropriate when such an offense is given.

That is all understood. What isimportant going forward is how we deal with it, what we choose to do with our time and our energy and our money. I have seen this scenario in the past, with the Vietnam War. The antiwar movement didn't know which way to go and confusion and chaos ensued. What happened: the Republicans won!

Let's not go down that path again, please!

[Name removed]

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[treestar]

79. I don't even know anyone who has AIDS

I've never had a social circle large enough to have that many to lose.

What do I owe you in return for the fact I won't ever suffer that badly?

I do support gay marriage and equal rights and do not agree with discrimination against gays for anything or any job. Is that enough? Because I don't really give a crap who gives the invocation. Is that not enough and makes me a homophobe?

[Name removed]

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[TWiley]

83. wow, my response got deleted .... let me try again.

I only knew 3 people who died from HIV / AIDS. I am very sorry for your loss. I believe it is a basic human right for people to be able to organize into social and legal partnerships that form a community of support. To prohibit these is criminal. At least it is in my mind.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

84. I feel for you

truly. I lost friends too, long ago.

I am also reminded of how many of us have suffered in life....there are so many forms, and so many of us have not only suffered, but been stomped into the ground for our pain. Charity organizations ask for pity and sympathy for a limited few agonies, but there are those that get no PR which are far worse....(my personal sufferings? various hate actions and victimizations that women often experience. Abusive mentally ill parenting. And chronic life threatening bowel disease during childhood, teenhood and early adulthood--I can't even describe what happens to people with that, and the cruelty it brings out in people.)

I've experienced the sorrow, the loneliness, the anger that wants to lash out....

I think in the end, we ALL want our pain to be known, we ALL want to be acknowledged for what we've survived, we ALL want to know that others realize our special beauty, and we ALL want to know that others have made it through what we have, and that we can too.

so we are all here to share our pain together, and hopefully find some catharsis and some comfort and some strength.

[CraftyGal]

89. I have felt your pain....

I lost a wonderful friend to AIDS before there was a name put to it. I remember the collective gasp in my community centre, when I let this wonderful man hold my baby girl for the first time. It was a huge risk for me to do that and yet I did. We were still under all the myths of how this disease was transmitted. I had listened to Dobson say the it was a "punishment from God" and that it was spread through breathing on someone to sneezing. What a goof! Wouldn't listen to the scientists who had figured out how the disease was passed on. Others had the same beliefs as well. Someone even went up to my daughter's father and complained about it. He just looked at them and said "So what do you want me do about it?" The person didn't know that her father was friends with the person.

I have lost more friends to alcohol and drugs than anything else. I have attended to many funerals for people that had troubles kicking their addictions. One was my fiance, many, many years ago. I saw women who worked the streets, who tried to quit and end up dead, because their "John" was a bad trick. I lost 2 friends to a serial killer in BC. I lost another friend here to the Edmonton Serial Killer. One women was a lesbian, except for her male tricks.

Why is that people that are marginalized are treated as second class citizens? We are all human beings who have had to struggle in the life that we have here on earth. I am tired of the bigotry, the homophobia, the whining, "poor me" all the while not changing what has led to the circumstances that were find ourselves in. It is what it is and we can't change what has happened in the past. I hope with Obama in the White House that some of the mistakes and errors will be corrected. WE need to give him time to do his job!

We need to look forward and to counted among the solution. We need to stand up and be counted, however in order to that we need to be accountable for out actions. Are we not doing the same things as the fundies, when we are intolerant to them? Do we not paint all fundies with the same brush as Dobson, as Warren, as Bob Larson? These guys are very dangerous, however not all Christians believe the way these guys do. I know many Christians who stand along side of us, so that we all have the rights and freedoms afforded everyone.

Sorry for the long rant, off my soap box, now. :rant:

CraftyGal

[HillbillyBob]

91. I do know the difference between Christian and Kreestian

The fundys that are the problem will not even listen to reason.
They have already made up their minds or let the pastors that they hear make up their minds for them.
Have you ever had a bunch of them in front of your house?
I have.
This group started with knocking on my door every weekend at 7 am and quoting Leviticus at me and trying to come in uninvited to 'Bring Gawd to me' that went on for months.
I worked on weekend nights, some times until 3 am, they knew this. after about 5 months it started to escalate to rocks against the house, taunts. I was unfailing in not reacting other than to ask if that is what Jesus would have them do.
Finally a culmination, them all gathering in my yard, when I had rented a part of the house that was an apartment to an young African American woman with her baby to help her get away from and abusive husband.
"Its bad enough that you goddamn queers have dirtied our nighborhood, and now you bring in dirty N....!" You and the N.... are gonna go!" someone outside yelled
When I looked out side a bunch of them had white sheets and some 2x4s trying to make a cross, which to burn If they had gotten it lighted, it would have set the old house on fire.
I went out and told them to go mind their own business.
If you paid my bills maybe you could tell me owhat to do, but you don't and you are trespassing.
More insults
I had started keeping a 12 gauge pump shotgun with salt loads, painful but not lethal behind the front door. I was getting to be afraid of them.
I used it, shot one in the air the next 3 4 in their asses as they ran away.
The police ticketed ME for letting off a fire arm in the city.
I was told I couldn't prove they were gonna burn a cross. what is that charred wood then on the yard?
The elderly lady next door said she knew who they were and they were her sons, whom she said she raised better and others were neighbors. I recognized voices. That had happened in Alabama.
I too have lost a lot of people to drugs and alcohol too, I think I said up thread that I had.
We left Fla when the last of our living sane friends had moved away. The rest either dead or taken to using meth, including a house guest from hell we had tried to help. Instead he stole from us and then my partners job got outsourced, after having several yard sales, only two people showed up to help us at the sale and pack and one of them died not long after, the other lives 2 states away now and comes to visit about once a year on vacation.
We feel a little isolated, but have gotten passed the bitterness and know we are lucky to have been able to rebuild our lives. We would love to have some friends nearby to share with.
We have Christian neighbors who were a little wary when we moved in, but they are not narrow and we share food from our garden and get eggs from their chickens and honey from her dad who is a beekeeper.