Cascade Natural Gas shut off my gas today... a month after they increased their rates 25%

[merwin]

I was like 45 days late due to my own mistake when switching from Microsoft Money to Quicken... missed the bill completely. We sent them a check through our online e-pay system that i use at my bank, check was delivered yesterday according to the E-Pay system.

I get home today and i have a notice hanging on my door saying that our gas has been shut off for non-payment of account.

They have a number to call, but they close at 5pm, and I got home at 6.

Right now my house is at 67 degrees. It's a really drafty house, especially in my 2 year old son's room. His room is usually a few degrees colder. It's supposed to be in 20's with wind chill tonight (40mph gusts). Should I call their emergency line and demand they come turn the damn thing back on?

(edit)
Here's the link to the post about the 25% increase
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=184x15536

[Skittles]

1. YES DEMAND THEY TURN IT BACK ON

NOW!!!!!!!!

[Kaleko]

2. Yes. You are in an emergency situation with a baby.

Raise hell until you get help.

We're here, rooting for you, mmmkay?

[shraby]

3. Many places are not allowed to shut

off the heat when small children are in the house. Call the authorities about this and demand your heat be restored.

[merwin]

5. I called and it wasn't because we were late on our gas payment.

It is because we filed bankruptcy in late October, and they created a brand new account and charged us a $118 deposit that we had missed as it was along with the bill.

So basically, they charged me an arbitrary amount because they think i'm a risk (although I have always paid my bills with them), assess a fee, and use that to turn off my service? I mean, my wife fucking called them and told them that we sent the check and when it would arrive.

They charge $60 to come out and turn it back on after hours, or wait until the morning.

[aquart]

11. Call every representative of any kind you have tomorrow.

City, county, state, federal. Then call your local TV news and tell them. It relates to the bankruptcies of common people. It relates to the extortionate rate raise. You might get some interest. Because it looks like they're sneaking in extra fees.

The CEO of your gas company get a bonus this year?

[midnight]

15. Call your mayor......

[mnhtnbb]

25. To keep pipes from freezing, leave water running. You only need a trickle.

I'm with others, you should call your local TV station--especially if they have a consumer advocate
person.

Capitalist pig$.

[yardwork]

32. That is so awful. I'm so sorry that this is happening to you.

[SeattleGirl]

34. Definitely start calling people. Power company threatened to shut

me off years ago. I had lost my job, and was waiting for my first unemployment check, 4 fucking days from when they threatened me. And, it was over a $35 bill! I called the state's energy commissioner and talked to him directly (yeah, no kidding!), and told him what was going on. I gave him the name of the twit at the power company AND the twit's twittier supervisor's name. He called them right away, then called me back and said my power would not be shut off. I was shocked that it was taken care of so quickly, but very very grateful. And yes, I did pay my bill the day I got my unemployment check.

[merwin]

35. The problem with us was that they sent us two different bills.

One with the deposit on it that we were never told about, and one with the actual bill. My wife called and was told to pay the actual service bill. We accidentally missed that month during the transition from her handling finances and bills to me, which is completely my fault, but once we received the most recent bill we sent out an E-Pay and then called them to tell them that we made a mistake and the check will be there in 5 days. Incidentally, this bill did not include the charge for the deposit on it, so we never knew about it.

The first thing we heard about it was when they put the sign on our door saying that we were turned off.

[Missy Vixen]

4. Call them NOW

The power company here has rules about not shutting off the gas during winter months, period, and we're in a fairly temperate area.

You need your gas, and the baby needs to be warm!
Julie

[lildreamer316]

6. Do you have space heaters??

We had to do that in our young son's room when we couldn't afford the oil bill.

Raise holy mufukin hell and call them first thing. Remind them you have a two year old. If that does not work, call the tv stations.

[merwin]

9. Good idea about the TV station. Also the local newspaper.

Media might catch on....

Lower-middle class family who just filed bankruptcy because both parents were laid off this year gets their heat shut off in the middle of winter for missing a deposit that is generally uncalled for, since we have had clean payment history with them since the beginning of the year when we moved here. We made arrangements to pay, followed through, and they still shut us off? My bank has records of when I sent the check, as they take the money out immediately when you use their E-Pay system.

[Hekate]

7. That was mighty quick of the bastards. #1 Call the emergency line #2 Sleep next to the baby

#3 I hope you can tell us soon that they hustled out there to restore service.

Jesus how can people be so heartless? :cry:

Hekate

edited to add: What lildreamer said: Call the local TV station's news info line and give them the story.

[merwin]

8. Cascade Natural Gas is a bunch of fuckers.

I just checked WA state law and it's perfectly legal for them to shut you off for non-payment of a deposit (that was required only after filing bankruptcy, had a clean payment record before that) after 20 days. The only way you can avoid getting shut off is if you're low income and have gone through other steps.

The thing that pisses me off the most is that when they called my wife, she then told her that we missed the bill, got how much it was and said we would immediately send the check, and I sent out an E-Check that was scheduled to arrive yesterday.

They're going to demand a reconnect fee of $25, which I am going to bitch and moan about until they waive it. Not stop calling them.

[orleans]

36. is it legal for them to charge a deposit just because you filed bankruptcy?

i understand it's legal for them to shut you off if they don't get the deposit but is it legal to require the deposit for the reason stated when you've had a good record with them?

never mind. i just read your post #18.

sorry. stay warm and safe as best you can.

[blogslut]

10. They charged you an arbitrary fee because you filed for bankruptycy?

Take that messed up shit to The Consumerist and make sure you let the gas company know that you've done it, as well as that you're contacting the local press:

http://consumerist.com/
[e-mail]

[liberalpress]

21. I tried to resist considering the topic's seriousness

but I couldn't.

It was hekate saying "how can people be so heartless"

then Hfojvt said it wasn't a "three dog night"

I'm sorry

Inappropriate song humor

[hfojvt]

12. I would rough it

but I have lots of blankets, two space heaters and two dogs. If it's only in the 20s, then it's not a three dog night.

[merwin]

13. I'm fine with the cold, it's my son that I'm worried about.

He's in the 10th percentile for weight, pretty much skin and bones.

I didn't even notice that it had gone down from 72 (where my wife likes it) down to 67 (when I started this thread). And now it's at 65. So my son's room is probably about 62 degrees.

I'm going to head out into the crap rainy freezing cold windy weather we're having and try to find a space heater in the garage. Just how I wanted to spend my evening :)

[Berry Cool]

16. Call your TV news FIRST.

Especially if any of your local stations has one of those "on your side" consumer advocacy reporters. Tell him or her your story. Within a few minutes of that person being on the phone to the gas company about you, they should be headed over to your place to turn the gas back on. If not, you can be sure they will make the gas company look very, very bad until they do.

Edited to add: Call your state attorney general too. Bet you anything what the company did was illegal in several ways.

[merwin]

18. I checked the law, and technically it's legal, but

unfortunately after bankruptcy they are allowed to impose a deposit and turn you off if not paid within 20 days of receipt. However, the spirit of the law was for customers who required utilities but owed lots of money to the utility company. Hell, even after Chapter 7, our credit score is still 650. We don't miss payments. We just couldn't afford our current debt because my wife and i both got laid off this year. Rent and utilities and such have been paid on time all the time.

[Undercurrent]

17. Tuck your little kiddo in bed between you, and your wife.

He'll stay toasty there.

Keep raising hell!

The best of luck to you.

[merwin]

19. This is the week that we're weaning him from that.

He's getting a real bed for Christmas (comes a couple weeks late for this present), and is learning that he can't just sleep with mommy and daddy when he wakes up in the middle of the night, as I usually end up on the couch because I already have sleeping difficulties as it is (hence, the post at 5am).

We put our only space heater in his room, and i set my electric oven to clean mode, and we're up to 66 degrees in at least parts of the house. My son's room is probably nice and toasty again.

[ljm2002]

23. Well you might consider adapting your plans...

...to accommodate this unexpected turn of events.

Maybe you could complete the weaning process next week, when his room will be warm again. Seems a bit harsh to insist on him sleeping alone in his room right when the temperature is so cold that you are concerned for his health, especially when he's not used to it in the first place.

[merwin]

26. He got the only space heater that we have, so his room was toasty.

I put that in about 3am, and it was nice and warm in about 30 minutes.

[midnight]

14. This makes me so sad to read. Why is this situation not as

important as budgeting for a bankers bailout, more money for bullets, prisons.......Please call your mayor, or your senator. Please let them know your have a small child in your house.

[radfringe]

20. call local newspaper/tv station

ask them if there are any agencies/groups/organizations that could help you.

this will usually prompt them to ask more about your situation, and I'm sure you are not the only one having these problems.

we did this a couple of years ago when we were trying to get records for our pets. The place we went to was shut down for health/animal code violations. The vet they had on staff went elsewhere, and the records were locked up tight.

We wanted the records so when we found a new vet, we wouldn't have to go through a rigamarole of figureing out which critter had/needed what shots.

My partner called local newspaper, asked them if they knew where we could go to get help - they suggested the State Attorney General's office and Animal Control.

ennywho- in relation to your situation - the local paper wrote a story about how people couldn't get their pet records, and suggested that people file a complaint with State Attorney General's office. local TV station later picked it up too.

so call paper, and ask where you can get some help/action to get the gas back on - your story might just make the papers.

[Vinca]

22. Some states have laws that prohibit shutoffs during winter weather

when it's life threatening. If your state doesn't have such a law, it would be a good thing to promote. In the meantime, I'd definitely call the emergency number. 20 degrees can kill you. Fucking price gougers.

[LynneSin]

24. First this sucks but here's my 2 cents

My biggest concern are two things your child and your water pipes. Cleary the health of the child comes first but you do not want an additional repair bill if your water pipes freeze because they are not heated.

If you have 2 heaters I might suggest putting one in the basement to keep the pipes warm and the other in your master bedroom. And although you are trying to wean off the child from sleeping with the parents - tell him that's his resolution for 2009. His health comes first.

If you only have one heater I think you mentioned that you used your stove to help keep the house warm - I would continue doing that. But I'd still keep a heater in the basement to keep the pipes from freezing. With 3 of you sharing a bed and plenty of blankets, hats & scarves you should be fine for 1 or 2 nights.

I wish you were nearby - I have a nice electric heater I'd be happy to share with you - but I'm in Delaware.

[merwin]

27. It's a tiny old 2 bedroom, one story house that leaks heat everywhere.

We only have one space heater and that went in my son's room.

There literally would have to be a space heater in the kitchen, both bedrooms, and the living room to accomplish anything useful.

[merwin]

28. UPDATE (and slight rant), my gas is back on for now.

I called my bank today (credit union) and she called the gas company and verified that the check was sent and faxed the info. They didnt care. So i called back and demanded they turn it on and that i was not going to pay 60$ cash or check immediately to have them do it, which i wasnt about to do.

My wife called them a month or so ago when we got our bill and the deposit letter (almost at the same time) and asked how much we owed them because getting two bills was confusing and they neglected to mention the deposit amount that was owed or that my gas was about to get shut off. My guess is that they're handled by different billing systems. Our December bill had nothing related to a deposit on it, so we paid the full amount of the bill, and we called them to tell them we sent the check.

Apparently the deposit is on a separate bill from the regular one, which is handled by a different department (probably outsourced), so the rep never mentioned it. And on top of that, he told me that with gas payments, they are lenient on the cutoff date, but not with deposits, which is insane, since the whole reason of a deposit is to make sure the customer pays.

He also told me that their company policy is to assess a deposit when they are listed on the bankruptcy, even if you have a clean payment history and zero balance (which is a violation of the spirit of the law that allows them to request deposits after bankruptcy). The bankruptcy attorney tells you to list all of your bills, even if they are current.

The rep (who wanted to help but the gas company here is zero-tolerance on policy violations), so he put me on hold for a few minutes to talk it over with some other people and decided to put the $60 on my bill, and advised me to call on Friday when they open so there will be managers available at which point I can work up the food chain to someone who will waive the deposit and reconnection fee.

Luckily, i worked for T-Mobile customer care for a year and in engineering for another 6 years, so i know customer care inside and out... and to specifically ask for a manager and not an escalation rep (which is a normal rep trained to handle upset customers). Little things like that can get you up to someone who has the ability to bend policy more. Being a customer care rep also trains you on how to lead discussions in a manner that makes the rep want to help you. Unfortunately, there are some reps who are just assholes and nothing can be done, which is what happened yesterday.

I am going to see how this plays out on friday when i call them back and then call the news and/or attorney general.

I am not afraid of small claims court either, so if it comes to that then I will take them to court. The law is vague on the deposit or other security requirement after bankruptcy (specifically the reasons that deposits can be made, to protect utilities from customer who discharged debt from them). All of my debt was credit card and medical, with all utilities always paid on time. Only costs me $35 to file and if I win it sets a precedent for future people in my position. The RCW (Revised Code of WA) says that utilities are allowed to collect deposits if deemed necessary after a bankruptcy. The specific WAC (Washington Administrative Code) that I am arguing is 480-90-113. It states:

(1) Deposit criteria for residential customers. A gas utility may collect a deposit from its own customers for residential service only if:
(a) At any time during the prior twelve months, the utility has sent the customer three or more delinquency notices;
(b) The utility has disconnected the customer's residential service for nonpayment; or
(c) There is a prior customer living at the residence who owes a past-due bill to the utility for service at that address.
(2) Deposit criteria for residential applicants. A utility may collect a deposit from an applicant for residential service only if:
(a) The applicant has met any of the conditions described in subsection (1) of this section as a prior customer of the utility or as a customer of another natural gas utility;
(b) The applicant is not able to demonstrate continuous employment during the prior twelve consecutive months and neither is currently employed nor has a regular source of income;
(c) The applicant does not own or is not purchasing the premises to be served;
(d) There is a prior customer living at the residence who owes a past-due bill to the utility at that address; or
(e) The applicant has an unpaid, overdue balance owing to any electric or gas utility for residential service.

None of these apply to me, therefore there is no right for them to assess a deposit on my account. It is simply a policy that they instituted for everyone who declares bankruptcy.

This company specializes in getting as much money from you as possible. The representative I had today seemed as frustrated as me with the policies.

My son had the space heater so he was toasty. I ran the electric oven in clean mode for 6 hours overnight, which the cost will be included in the small claims charges if it comes to that... brought the temp up to toasty in the kitchen and a couple degrees up in part of the living room.

This has been a rough year for my family, with being diagnosed with Celiac's disease, me losing my job for 3 months and having to get one that pays half as much, insane medical bills, finding out that we arent going to be able to have another child (took 8 months of IUI to have our first one, and that is like 500 per try), my wife getting laid off, declaring bankruptcy, owing 20k to the IRS in self employment taxes because we had to use the money to live, and now being screwed over by the gas company to end the year.

I am completely writing off this year as a shitty, since the only good thing was Obama getting elected, but he doesn't get into office for another few weeks.

[firedupdem]

29. Glad the gas is back on. That entire situation sucked...I'm with

you on writing off 2008. Horrible year. Lost Jobs, lost our home, moved to another state that I hate, and the list could go on.

January 20th gives us something to look forward too...seeing the jerks that caused all this leaving office will be one step in the right direction.

Glad you guys are warm and toasty! Happy New Year!

[merwin]

30. My step-father-in-law showed me how to to turn it on myself next time.

So if it ever gets shut off and they say they're sending someone to turn it on I can just twist the valve myself.

[firedupdem]

31. Very good. We have to look out for ourselves more than ever. n/t

[merwin]

33. I really think I have legal grounds to get the deposit removed.

According to this site, which helps explain washington state law:
http://www.mrsc.org/askmrsc/pastinqsubject.aspx?sid=35

1. Must a city provide utility service to a person who has declared bankruptcy?
A city may not refuse to provide service or discontinue service based on the filing of a bankruptcy petition. However, a city should bill for services provided to the customer after the date of the bankruptcy filing. A city can also require a security deposit equal to the charges for two months of service. After the filing of a bankruptcy petition, a city cannot take further action to collect delinquent charges that were due prior to the filing of the petition.

This says that a public utility has the option of requiring a security deposit, which initially looks bad for me...

However, in the Washington Administrative Code, it describes requirements for residential service deposits:
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/WAC/default.aspx?cite=480-90-113

(1) Deposit criteria for residential customers. A gas utility may collect a deposit from its own customers for residential service only if:
(a) At any time during the prior twelve months, the utility has sent the customer three or more delinquency notices;
(b) The utility has disconnected the customer's residential service for nonpayment; or
(c) There is a prior customer living at the residence who owes a past-due bill to the utility for service at that address.

I don't fit into any of those categories, so while they may have the right to require a security deposit, I do not meet the criteria for a residential service deposit.

Another site that explains WA law that backs up my theory is:
http://www.mrsc.org/Subjects/PubWorks/utilbill/billing.aspx#deposits

With respect to utility service after commencement of a bankruptcy case, legal counsel should be consulted since specific procedures must be followed in bankruptcy proceedings. A utility may require a new or additional deposit, if chronic delinquencies occur, or if the customer's credit rating changes for the worse.

I just checked my credit rating and it's at 650. Not the 715 I had before bankruptcy, but still not worthy of a bad credit deposit, and I have had no chronic delinquencies.

[merwin]

38. I talked with my bankruptcy attorney and he said that charging the deposit is illegal.

I got a CNG supervisor to forward it up to corporate and have them call me in a few days, but I'm also going to have my attorney send them a nasty letter. They tend to take those more seriously.

My attorney needs some computer work done at his office (I alternate between network administration and software development, so it's right up my alley)... I told him I'd trade him services :)

[lonestarnot]

37. Oh geeze! Any electric blankets?