Can Portland's Gay Mayor Survive a Scandal?

[eeyore]

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1874372,00.html

The cast of the scandal in Portland, Ore., has a certain ring to it: Sam Adams. Bob Ball. Beau Breedlove and his dog Lolita ... "Everyone has porn names!" says Mark Wiener with a laugh. "Until yesterday, it had never occurred to me that the worst offending name was mine." Wiener (pronounced Wee-ner) is one of Oregon's most influential political consultants and a former — and now disheartened — campaign adviser to the protagonist in this political soap opera. That would be Sam Adams, the new mayor of Portland and the first openly gay man to lead a major American city. Then there's Bob Ball, an openly gay local real estate developer who once had mayoral ambitions himself. In 2007, Ball hinted that Adams' mentoring relationship with a former legislative intern, Beau Breedlove (now 21), was, in fact, a sexual one that had begun when the young man was just 17. (See the top 10 scandals of 2008.)

dams, a city commissioner at the time, denied the charges vigorously, and his supporters, including Wiener, rallied to his support. Ball's charges were shouted down as "sleazy" and a "smear." Then Adams effectively won the mayor's office with a landslide victory in the primaries last May, making the liberal city of Portland even prouder of its liberalism. But just as it was about to celebrate change with the rest of the country, sending Adams to Washington to attend Barack Obama's Inauguration, sex reared its head again. On Jan. 11, Breedlove sent a text message to Willamette Week reporter Nigel Jaquiss, who had persisted in pressing the younger man to speak on the record. Wrote Breedlove: "I'm scared. If the story goes to print without me saying anything, I'm worried I will look like a scumbag. If I do say anything, then Sam's fate is in my hands." (Read a 1956 TIME story about another scandal in Portland.)

---snip---

Haven't really seen anyone talking about this here. Strange times here in Portland, indeed!

[xchrom]

1. he was 18 -- not seventeen. an adult

in a consensual relationship.

at some point we really need to learn to butt out.

[eeyore]

4. Beau claims they kissed when he was 17

At first they both claimed that the relationship was of a mentoring nature. Now they both say it was sexual, but that they waited until Beau was 18 to have sex. Sam was 42 at the time.

[xchrom]

7. an adult.

18 year olds serve in the military.

at what age do we start treating grown-ups as grown-ups -- 45?

[eeyore]

8. I agree about 18, but it's very tricky.

Sam denied the relationship was sexual during the election, then he was elected by big numbers. I don't give a shit who he sleeps with, but he obviously thought the voters couldn't handle the true nature of the relationship, and asked Beau to lie for him to make sure he got elected.

He was asked by a reporter last week if he lied to get into office, and Sam reluctantly replied yes.

It's about the lie to get into office. No one here cares that he's gay or cares who he sleeps with as long as he's sleeping with consenting adults.

[xchrom]

9. two things humans will always lie about --

drugs and sex.

and one of them is none of our business.

and that is the high ground people should be taking in adult relationships.

[eeyore]

10. He could have said that during the election.

When accused by his also gay opponent of having sex with a 17 year old, Sam could have said that Beau was 18 at the time when they had a brief relationship. No one's business, next questions.

Instead, Sam said that he and Beau had a mentoring relationship, that Beau was a teen struggling with coming out of the closet who came to Sam for advice as someone he admired. Sam claimed that he and Beau never had a sexual relationship. He lied, he got elected, the lie was revealed, and now Sam has to pay whatever consequences come his way.

I can tell you this, his allies no longer trust him. When the first accusations came out, many people came to Sam's defense, and he let them. Now they are pissed off, hurt, and disgusted that at the very least it's true that Sam and Beau kissed in the bathrooms at city hall when Beau was 17. Not really the kind of judgement you're looking for in your mayor.

[xchrom]

22. if you're a judgemental busy body pokin your nose where

it doesn't belong you're pissed off.

the young man was an adult -- at 18 he can serve in the military.

[alwysdrunk]

17. 42 and 18? NO politician is getting away with that

Gay has nothing to do with it. Most 42 year olds in the private sector would be in danger after it became know that they were sleeping with an 18 year old.

[SoCalDem]

44. 42 yr old NON-gay, male mayor with 18 year old female intern? nope

his sexual orientation is NOT the biggest issue here.. It;s the propriety of the whole issue.. powerful older pol, with young..very young subservient intern/co-worker/aide/assistant/whatever..

He "says" there was no kissing until the person was 18.. and we should believe it because he says it?

Even if there was "no kissing", it's the whole ICK ! factor..

How would a parent feel if their son/daughter went to "work" for a 42 year old person (at 17, a parent would have to sign a permission slip of some kind, wouldn't they?)..and then find out that the boss was drooling over their teenager, just chomping at the bit until that magical 18 yhr old birthday, to plant a wet sloppy one on him her?

[cali]

52. ding, ding, ding.

this is not about whether the Mayor is gay or not. Were he straight and screwing around with an eighteen year old female intern, it'd still be enough to get him in trouble. Particularly with the lying. It's the power imbalance and age difference plus the lying that endangers his political career.

[Behind the Aegis]

53. Actually, it is the stupidity and prudishness that is the real danger to his career.

[cali]

60. yeah, his stupidity. And I'm not a prude

but I slammed Clinton for his stupidity and I'm not going to adopt a double standard just because Adams is gay.

[Behind the Aegis]

61. Didn't say you were a prude.

What I said was it was stupidity and prudishness are the real danger to his career. The stupidity is those who think this is any of their fucking business and demonstrates how he could preform as mayor. The prudes, well, that should be self-explanatory, but if not, then explore your concept of double standards (and not on the gay/str8 level).

[cali]

64. Sorry, I think pols or professors or others in a position of power

who exploit young people under their authority, are louses and need to explore their own psyches. And if that makes me a prude, fine. Plus he's a liar.

[Behind the Aegis]

65. Perhaps you are a prude.

It appears you are under the assumption that all young people are idiots and don't (can't) be ambitious and devious, they are simply helpless victims. Oh, and he's a liar....and Beau isn't? We are to take his word over the ol' gay perv? Uh-huh. Again, explore your own assumptions and biases (and not I am not talking sexual orientation).

[cali]

67. Not at all. I'm pretty much aligned with my friend Judith Levine

on sexuality and young people And it didn't bother me a bit when my 15 year old kid had sex with someone 3 years older. And yeah, he's obviously a liar. There's plenty of evidence of that. And don't fucking even think of pulling that shit on me on how I'm really some homophobe- and yeah that's exactly what you were insinuating- even though you say you're not.

And if you don't know who Judith Levine is, wiki her.

[Behind the Aegis]

87. LOL!

"And don't fucking even think of pulling that shit on me on how I'm really some homophobe- and yeah that's exactly what you were insinuating- even though you say you're not." :rofl:

You suddenly know what I am saying better than me? Trust me, I wasn't saying, implying, or indicating you were a homophobe. Ageist? Look into it.

[snooper2]

79. Of course, a nobody's business when it's a liberal gay Mayor of Portland

But if it's a sleazy Republican we all hate- then no prob right-

in your own words :)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1332694

[sad sally]

16. yeah, and the kiss was in City Hall's bathroom...gimme a break

don't people have enough work to do at work without using restrooms for romance?

[Moloch]

19. So what? Kissing isn't sex.

People should mind their own business.. While its unethical for a 42 yo to have sexual relations with an 18 yo, its completely legal. I wonder if Adams were straight and had sex with an 18 year old girl, there would be a scandal.

[eeyore]

20. The issue is the dishonesty

He destroyed one of his opponents by lying about this during the election. Read the article. It has much less to do with sex than trust and integrity.

[cali]

54. Are you kidding? Think Bill Clinton.

Whether people should mind their own business or not, this is the kind of thing that damages the career of any pol- straight or gay.

[closeupready]

78. And personally, I'll say about this what I said about Clinton: his love life is nobody's business.

Period.

[MellowDem]

93. It is until it isn't...

if you know what I mean. Once these things become publicly known, and they often do, then it is everyone's business. After all, it wasn't anyone's business that Edwards had an affair with that woman right? If he had been nominated, we could have just said, "well, it's only his business" and everything would have been peachy, right? Not to mention, sex does NOT automatically equal "love", and has often been used in abusive or even corrupt relationships when mixed with powerful political figures. It is my business if my elected representatives are using the power I gave them to get sex from the young and naive. If they're using their position for something as stupid as sex, what the hell else are they using it for?

I'd love to see the CEO of the company I work for getting blowjobs from his intern and then not face any consequences whatsoever. It's called conflict of interest. Look it up.

[David Dunham]

2. The mayor should quit.

[eeyore]

3. Very little response....

Yeah, nobody really wants to talk about it much in Portland either.

We elected Sam with huge margins, and his sexual preference was never seen as a topic worthy of discussion during the election. He was the right guy for the job. When Bob Ball accused Sam of the affair with Beau, Sam came out and labeled it a smear being used to destroy him in the most vicious of ways. He said it disgusted him that the "gay male as pedophile" stereotype was being thrown at him by another gay man (Bob Ball) who was also his opponent. And then he had to cop to it after he got elected and sworn in.

It's really sad, more than anything, because he just ended up reinforcing that stereotype to all of the right wing, anti-gay psychos. He just gave them fuel, and now they are working on his recall. They want him declared a predatory sex offender and thrown from office in shame. But Sam wants to stay, and he legally can't be recalled until he's been in office for 6 months.

What a mess!

Even the local gay newspaper, Just Out, has called for his resignation.

[alwysdrunk]

18. That's terrible. He really should resign

That's is unbelievable hypocrisy if he called it a smear and a stereotype knowing the whole time it was true.

[Chovexani]

91. What is your deal, concern troll?

Just maybe no one wants to talk about it because it's a non-story. There isn't any "gay male as pedophile" stereotype being reinforced because there was no "pedophilia" involved. The man in question was 18, and didn't even work for the Mayor--hell he didn't even work in Portland most of the time. The only crime the Mayor engaged in is one hetero males commit every day, thinking with the little head and chasing after barely legal ass. Yet no one is calling for all the hetero men to lose their jobs are they? Politically it was a dumb move but he didn't break any laws, probably the worst thing he did was fucking someone much lower on the food chain. And lest we forget it takes two to tango. I know plenty of 18 year old of either gender that would jump at a hot older person. Shit, I was one of them (thank you Mrs. Robinson!).

Sorry if consensual gay sex bothers you to the point you feel people should lose jobs over it. You keep saying "they" in your posts when the only person I see clutching pearls is you and the other hetero concern trolls who hyperventilate over gay people having sex lives. Take a valium and calm the hell down, it's just sex.

[Still Sensible]

5. It's not about the orientation, it's the impropriety

but make no mistake, some will want him out of office out of prejudice no doubt.

[eeyore]

6. Oh, they want him out alright...

A guy falsely got an item on the agenda at the city commissioners meeting yesterday, then stood up at his turn and started yelling for Sam to step down. Sam had to tell him that he was not working within the agenda and that he needed to sit back down.

Oy!

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

11. I support the mayor.

This is entirely a non-issue.

[eeyore]

13. A non issue?

Tell that to the very liberal constituency of Portland that voted for him and now does not trust him to be honest. When asked for his response to a potentially damaging accusation during the election he lied, and in doing so he damaged the credibility of his opponent, Bob Ball, who brought the issue in question to light. He lied and destroyed his opponent in the process, abusing the good will and trust of his supporters and would-be supporters.

He may not have to leave office, but it is an issue. An issue of trust and political integrity. His political allies who all supported him during the elections are hurt, pissed off, and disillusioned with him.

It's an issue of whether or not he can still hold enough political clout to continue on effectively as the mayor of a city that needs a strong mayor right now.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

15. Alright.

I'll tell that to all the dopes in Portland complaining about this.

And anywhere else.

[Stevenmarc]

25. Maybe Bob Ball

deserved to be "destroyed" for inserting such a cheesy non-issue into the race to begin with. It's a tempest in a tea room.

[Occam Bandage]

12. If I am ever caught in a gay sex scandal, I hope the other guy's name is as awesome

as "Beau Breedlove." I would have to change my name to Rod Manly, Throb Hardthrust, or Beef Fuckstick just to keep up.

[eeyore]

14. Did you catch the name of Beau Breedlove's dog?

It's Lolita, and for some reason he insisted on being photographed with her for the Oregonian.

You can't make this shit up.

[timtom]

68. OMG! That's hilarious.

I believed that I never "LOL" but you've shown me to be quite wrong.

Thanks for the laugh.

[dsc]

21. This is what I can't get past

http://www.kgw.com/news-local/stories/kgw_011909_news_adams_letter_breedlove.e24b5cc.html

I have in the past, and I will in the future, respond to people who reach out to me for help and advice. This is especially true when it comes to young people.

Growing up in Newport and Eugene, Oregon I remember when I was a teenager and I had nobody who I felt I could talk to at a time I desperately needed someone to give me advice and perspective about coming to terms with being gay. I came through it. Not everyone does.

Gay youth suicide rates, homelessness and depression are still too high. And adequate services have been lacking: Reasons why I co-founded Portland's Q Center, served on the Boards of Cascade AIDS Project, Basic Right Oregon and lobbied the state legislature in support of statewide non-discrimination laws.

I didn't get into public life to allow my instinct to help others to be snuffed out by fear of sleazy misrepresentations or political manipulation. I understand the need for good judgment, and I keep within the bounds of propriety -- as I did in this case.

end of quote

He threw every kid who needs the help of adults under the bus and back up to run over them again, to save his ass. In the bargain he made his opponent, who was telling the truth, look like a lying sleezebag. It was a premeditated lie that hurt everyone to save himself from what he did. Oh, and why should I believe him on the age of Breedlove now when he lied to our faces then?

[eeyore]

23. Exactly.

Very sad, frustrating, angering, and bemusing. Sam has been for years one of the most eligible gay bachelors in Portland. He could get with anyone he wanted. Why did he feel the need to be with Beau?

Pure hubris.

[xchrom]

27. accusing him of helping in ANY way helping someone elses suicide

is horrifying on your part.

even connecting him with that is beyond ridiculous.

and beneath contempt.


:puke:

[dsc]

28. I would like the quote where I said that

Yes a direct quote or an apology. But he does make it that much harder for all kids to get help but nowhere do I say he facilitated suicide.

[xchrom]

29. what did i respond to? -- you saying that he threw troubled kids under the bus --

or support for troubled kids under the bus -- you associated him with pulling the rug out from troubled gay kids -- your post is -- broad enough -- i suppose for you to go all arms akimbo and take phony umbrage -- but that's what it is -- phony.

[dsc]

30. He hid behind stereotypes while living down to the worst possible one

At best, if you believe him, and at this point I wouldn't if his tongue came notorized, he had a sexual relationship with a person who sought his advice at a perilous time in that person's life, lied about it, instructed the person to lie about it, smeared the person who was telling the truth, and played the no one can council gay kids without being accused of having sex with them card. And again, this is if I believe him and the relationship didn't start until the young man was 18. I could take "it is none of your business". I could take "I had sex with him, so what". I could take "I won't discuss this." But lying and using the very real problem that gay adults can't mentor gay teens without being accused of lusting after them is downright disgusting. On top of that, I firmly believe the relationship started when the young man was 17 and thus illegal.

[xchrom]

31. dude -- everyone is going to lie about sex -- now -- if the story is accurate

beau was 18 -- and adult by law -- so do you want to follow around 45 year olds who are in public office -- or fully grown 18 year olds -- elegible to die in a war -- and make dure they aren't finger banging each other in dark corners?

i'll save ya the trouble and tell they already are.

you draw a heinous conclusion that says way more about you than it does about sam and beau.


seriously -- dude -- get a grip.

[dsc]

33. My conclusion is that liars lie

It started with, there was no sexual relationship at all. Then, after the evidence came out, well there was a sexual relationship but it didn't happen until he was 18. Now it is, according to Beau, we started kissing at 17 with Sam saying he doesn't remember and it might not have been a sexual kiss (in the city hall bathroom). Sorry, but at this point, lies add up and I just don't believe the man. The worst thing, is we could have still had a gay mayor out of this, the person who got smeared as a liar when he was telling the truth. Seriously, why on earth should we believe Sam, even under your theory that people lie about sex all the time?

[xchrom]

34. and harvey used to publicly berate an asian supervisor

with horrible racist rants.

18 is an adult -- old enough to die in a war.

at what point do we let grown ups be grown ups?

no one was abused here -- and your making up umbrage to support your own agenda.

[dsc]

48. So if we find out that Beau was 17 not 18

at the start of the affair, you would be in favor of his resignation? Or would you come up with a new rationalization? Again, why should I beleive he was 18 given the lies already told?

[xchrom]

95. ifs -- so far beau has said they didn't have sex until he was 18.

that's a grown up -- you gonna watch peoples panties until their 48?

[Arugula Latte]

24. Sam is my mayor. I hope he hangs in there.

[xchrom]

26. good for you -- and i hope he does too. nt

[eeyore]

35. He's my mayor too, I just want him to act like one

Sam damn well knew better, but hubris got in his way. I'd like to see him get beyond all of this, but it would be a pretty damn miraculous political feat. Anyone who thinks he did nothing wrong is being very disingenuous. You don't mess around with teenagers when you are a high ranking political figure, no matter your gender or orientation.

[swishyfeet]

32. The consensus from my friends in PDX is he needs to go

I was thrilled when he was elected, but the level of stupidity he's displayed is just too much. People here are just disappointed.

I really don't care about his relationships, but the Mayor of a city, gay or straight, does NOT get away with fooling around with a teenager. I'm sorry, he's a dumbfuck. He knew better.

[Liberal_in_LA]

36. seems like a royal mess. He's like Blago, trying to hang on.

[Meldread]

37. This is just sad.

He needs to just make a big public apology, take fully personal responsibility and try to wipe the slate clean. If the people don't want to forgive him, then he should resign.

I don't really care if the kid was 17 years old or 18 years old. It's pretty irrelevant in my book. Eighteen is not some magic number that makes you mature and an adult. Hell, there are seventy year olds who still aren't adults. So long as it was indeed consensual then I do not really care. Is it unethical? Yes, hugely so. Is it disgusting that a man that old tried to get with someone that young (regardless of gender or sexual orientation)? Yes. But, I don't view it as criminal.

What saddens me, though, is that he has reinforced tons of negative stereotypes about gay men. So that hurts more than anything.

If he can't make peace with the people, and re-earn their trust and respect he should step down. At least show he has some honor and take personal responsibility for his actions. It's the best way to save face, and still be respected even if people disagree with what he did.

[Behind the Aegis]

51. "Is it unethical? Yes, hugely so."

How so?

"What saddens me, though, is that he has reinforced tons of negative stereotypes about gay men. So that hurts more than anything." Sounds like you have some of your own.

"If he can't make peace with the people, and re-earn their trust and respect he should step down." That's just funny, along with "If the people don't want to forgive him, then he should resign."

[misanthrope]

38. This is so disappointing...

...I've only been to Portland a few times but loved the place. I was pretty proud of an already progressive American city for electing Adams last year.

But I can't get around a couple of things about this incident.

First, Adams has certainly compromised his integrity if not shattered it. His pattern of deception is damning and seems to bely a guilty conscience.

Secondly, I can't get past the impression that he betrayed Breedlove's trust. It reminds me of a situation in which a psychological therapist does this with a patient. The kid came to Adams at a vulnerable juncture in his life. Breedlove was seeking a mentor and Adams took advantage of that to a degree.

[Wiley50]

39. I listen to KPOJ morning show cause Thom joins an hour before his Nat. show

so I've been hearing about this for a while

I agree with Thom: Sex scandals are no ones business except those involved

None of mine

[BlooInBloo]

40. If it was *just* sex (i.e. straight sex), then he could. But it's teh ghey sex, so he won't make it.

People just aren't there yet.

[eeyore]

41. That's crap

The vast majority of people don't give a rat's ass that he's gay. We elected him with by a massive percentage, and aside from the blip that was the original accusation, no one ever mentioned him being gay during the elections. It just didn't matter. He won more than 50 percent of the votes in the primaries, thus making him mayor elect last May.

Still, to this day, his sexuality is not of import in any but the most rabid right wing stories. People just don't care here. I know it sounds nutty, but it's just not a factor at all.

We were all so happy to have Sam become our mayor, so this is a major disappointment, especially for those of us who were proud to be the largest city in the US to elect an openly gay mayor.

Even Just Out, the GLBT paper here, has called for Sam to step down. They feel betrayed by him and burned by his lies. They stood up for him when he was first accused, and now they feel embarrassed for having done so.

[BlooInBloo]

42. (shrug) I eagerly await explanation of why other pols' sexual pecadillos don't bring *them* down.

[eeyore]

43. I think people are really disappointed in him...

So many people were so happy to support Sam. It's just depressing to find out that someone lied to you so willingly. And not just lied, but when the affair was first accused he stood up there and called it a stereotypical homophobic smear.

It's not the sex, it's the self-righteous lying that seemed to come all too easy.

[dsc]

47. John Edwards

ring a bell?

[JVS]

49. Yup. This guy is toast.

The one exception to the sex scandal as career ender is Bill Clinton, and that was because he was boss of a whole party that had such a stake in his survival that the wagons circled around him. Like John Edwards the mayor isn't important enough to justify such a massive defensive action.

[Behind the Aegis]

50. Vitter? Ring a bell?

[dsc]

55. vitter hasn't faced the voters yet

I think he will lose.

[Behind the Aegis]

57. Might want to check how he is viewed in my state..

Hypocrisy.

[dsc]

58. vitter should have been forced out

but at least vitter did his nasty stuff with adults which frankly I don't think Adams did.

[Behind the Aegis]

59. Adams did.

18 is an adult.

[dsc]

62. why do you believe him now?

We know that he lied about the relationship from the get go. Then he swore nothing sexual at all happened before 18. Now we have Beau saying they kissed when he was 17 and Sam saying "I don't remember" and "It wasn't a sexual kiss" (on the lips in a bathroom). Sorry, but I don't believe the man.

[Behind the Aegis]

63. and how do you know?

Frankly, given the level of homophobia in life (and here), it is understandable he wouldn't "come clean" with all the details. Why do you believe Beau? Is kissing sexual to the point it is illegal? Sounds like you are in the "hang'em high" group. Obviously this ""ol' perv" was after some chicken."" Just because you don't believe the man, doesn't make you correct. I suggest you watch "To Kill a Mockingbird."

[dsc]

83. that evidently is an open question under Oregon law

sexual kissing appears to be covered by the statutory rape law of Oregon so he has a pretty big incentive to lie and has shown himself as willing to lie. I have read to kill a mockingbird and that defendant hadn't lied at all.

[Behind the Aegis]

88. And given the responses in this thread, I can see why he would lie.

As for the Oregon law, I can't respond to that because I don't know what the law is or what they term "sexual kissing."

[cali]

56. They do- all the time. Think Bill Clinton.

Whether it's fair or not, is another story. More recently, think Fosella.

[Behind the Aegis]

45. One only needs to read the messages from some of the prudes here to explain this:

"Leonard says, "I was troubled that he called Beau and asked him to lie ... Why would he ask to lie about a consensual relationship between adults?""

[Greyhound]

46. If he resigns, he's a feckless idiot.

He lied about something that nobody should have asked about, that was a mistake. It was perfectly legal and nobody is hurt. He has apologized, and should refuse any further comment on it.

The fact that is even an issue here demonstrates just how shallow Portland's "liberalism" is.

To quote another Portland DUer, "Welcome to the Missouri of the northwest".

[swishyfeet]

81. Perfectly legal... nobody was hurt...?

Do you really think that's the standard? No, here's the standard:

If you're a politician in your late 40's and get caught dating a person of high school age, you are expected to resign. Period. You may not like it, but you know it to be the truth. We all do.

I was once a juror in a rape trial. I had to remind my fellow jurors that she said NO, she meant NO. All men know what that means - it means if she calls the authorities you're going to jail. I wasn't crazy about convicting, but the law is the law.

[Greyhound]

85. So two horny people that have sex together is equivalent to rape?

So much for that whole freedom thing, huh?

[eeyore]

82. Shallow liberalism?

What a fucking joke! Not that I really care about standing up to your litmus test, but you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Nobody should ask about whether or not he was having sex with a 17 year old? Really?

Sam was elected on a platform of promoting sustainability, bettering our already stellar alternative transportation infrastructure, and whole slew of ideals that in most parts of the country would be tantamount to socialism. GHWB calls Portland "Little Beirut" in reference to the protests when he was here.

If this is such a demonstration of how shallow Portland's "liberalism" is, then I think you might want to check into Portland's GLBT newspaper, Just Out http://www.justout.com and find out their reasoning for calling for Sam's resignation.

Your knee jerk reaction probably just hit you in the face.

[Greyhound]

84. Yes shallow. The MAX is cool, below average by European standards, but one of the very best here.

There was no complaint, no charges, and no sex when he was 17, so when there was sex it was between two consenting adults. End of discussion.

41 hates us, wow! What an endorsement.

We have gays? Imagine that! Get back Holland, Portland's gonna show you how it's done.

We also have 20% of the residents here living below the poverty line, that's 1 out of 5, and that's those that are even counted. We have the great liberal businesses downtown hiring private thugs to beat and harass homeless people, with the blessing of the city (most of them are moonlighting cops). We have a state that gives up tens of millions dollars to huge corporations in tax breaks while mercilessly punishing small business. We have nearly non-existent building codes that allow landlords to extract rent while the building falls to pieces. We have some of the weakest tenant rights laws outside of the south. Ask the folks that have been pushed out of the homes they lived in for generations in north Portland how liberal we are.

There's much, much more, you still want to debate it?

Are we the worst? Not even close, but let's not break our arm trying to pat our own backs just yet, sucking less doesn't equal good. We are far from perfect.

Should he resign? certainly not. He did nothing wrong and owes nobody any explanation.

[eeyore]

86. I agree with many of your points...

Something I will debate, however, is that Portland fails some sort of liberal litmus test by being just a bit disturbed by the thought of an elected official having any sort of romantic involvement with a minor 25 years his younger, sex or not.

Illegal activity? That remains to be seen. Disturbing lack of foresight and judgement for a very ambitious politician? You bet!

I like Sam, and hope he weathers the storm somehow. I still think what he has admitted to thus far is disconcerting in the least. Just plain fucking stupid behavior if you ask me. His aides were disturbed by the relationship and tried to get him to behave in, at the very least, a more politically proactive way. They knew the stakes, and so did he. Sam chose to fool around with a young piece of ass when he could have had any man in the city. Pure hubris.

So, if being truly liberal means that it's cool for all of that to go on, no questions asked, then I guess in your eyes I've failed. Go ahead and call me a Lars Larson sympathizer or whatever it is you call people who don't meet your expectations of liberal.

I'm just a person who's happy to live in a very progressive and accepting city that I've called my home for 22 years. I was here for the mid-80s depression, Measure 9, and every fucking Bill Sizemore fiasco. By electing Sam I thought we were on the right path, and I still hope so. We'll see where this all goes.

[Greyhound]

89. and I with yours. My meaning is that our image is far more liberal than the reality.

I see people flocking here because of that image and finding that it is only an image. I see businesses here getting away with abusing employees far worse than is tolerated in many so-called conservative places and there is no recourse. The law dramatically favors money over proles. We're an exploitative, low wage, right-to-work state, hopefully working to change (though I heard just yesterday that, once again, they're trying to get rid of fairless square).

Anyway, the fact that it even matters who a single politician has consensual sex with is just not liberal.

We're weird, but maybe not weird enough.:shrug:

[democracy1st]

66. His butt needs to go!

[timtom]

69. I'm very proud of most of the posters on this thread

for understanding the real issue and not making sexual preference a part of the equation.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

70. "sexual preference?"

[timtom]

71. Hmmm

Kinda like being the grammar police, huh?

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

72. "Sexual preference" is the wrong term to use, because it connotes a choice

Why is it a "snipe shot" with "ugliness of intent" to point that out. You seem to know that it wasn't the proper term, but you posted it.

[timtom]

74. Jeez. You ARE armed for bear, aren't you?

I modified my response before you posted your response to it. It's a matter of tone. It was, on my part, a genuine mistake. "Sexual preference" is a term I have used and seen used for many years. But, back to the tone part. Had you merely pointed out my error, I would have corrected it and apologized. But the tone seemed to me a bit more adversarial, as "Aha! Now I've got you!"

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

75. In case you haven't noticed, this place has been extremely homophobic lately

A lot of gay posters have left, sorry if I don't ask nicely.

So basically, you know you posted the wrong term, but because I wasn't nice enough about it, you won't correct it? I just want to make sure I'm correct.

[timtom]

76. We were off to a fine start in this post.

But then:

"So basically, you know you posted the wrong term, but because I wasn't nice enough about it, you won't correct it? I just want to make sure I'm correct."

But, I DID correct it...

"It was, on my part, a genuine mistake. 'Sexual preference' is a term I have used and seen used for many years."

It's your undying willingness to believe I DID know that I was using the wrong term and that I was trying to slip something in cynically and with some agenda that I find disconcerting. You're keeping it adversarial.

[timtom]

77. Well, I was wrong.

Lots of folks want to make his SEXUAL ORIENTATION an issue.

Colossal FAIL.

[TwilightGardener]

73. If it were an affair with a 17 year old girl, he'd be out. He doesn't deserve

his position if he can't stay away from the interns, no matter what his orientation is.

[Chovexani]

92. Seventeen is not nor has it ever been eighteen.

One is legal the other is not. Basic arithmetic FTW.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

94. He had an affair with an 18-year-old man, who was not his intern

There's a big difference between 17 and 18.

And guess what? Just because someone is younger, doesn't mean they can't be the one pursuing the older person. I was 19 and dating a 45-year-old. Now I'm 26, and married to a 44 year old. I pursued both of them.

[Peacetrain]

80. It is not about sex, it is about abuse of power..

Gay, Straight, Bi, 41 and 17, holding hands is out of bounds, much less kissing and "waiting" to be legal.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

90. i think he will.