School play canceled. Is there separation of church and state?

[eagertolearn]

Help! One parent got mad at the content of "Picasso at the Lapin Agile" and had her church signed a petition which then led to the superintendent canceling the play (principal supported it). The person who filed it, the lawyer for the school that looked at the policy and the people on the petition were all from the same church. The choice was to take(censor) everything the complainer wanted out of the play out or cancel this play and start a new one. She wanted over half the pages in the play censored literally! Now because of the far right pressure in town the college won't let us perform there (even though most of the professors are livid and wanted to help and financially support our students). Now we can't find a building in town that we can rent because the play is "too controversial". The kids are still practicing and want put it on. I can't figure out how to put an article on here but look under "La Grande,Oregon, Picasso"on the internet which will lead to the articles. The students are so disillusioned about education right now.:-(

[JitterbugPerfume]

1. how sad

this shit had got to be stopped

[billyoc]

2. This might be the only real truth those students learn about education in America.

I consider them quite lucky.

[Texasgal]

3. Wow!

Are you serious?

I would definitely raise a stink about this!

[eagertolearn]

9. We did. The director appealed the decision and all sides were heard.

Over 100 students were there supporting keeping the play and they sat there for almost 3 hours listening to the process. I got up and mentioned my observation about one "group" of people stoping this and that this could be any church or group of people and where will this lead? So many of the students came up to me afterwards and gave me a hug and said "thanks for supporting us". It brings tears to my eyes just thinking about all those great "young adults" who don't want to be in the same bubble that some of the parents want to put their children in. My daughter plays a lead part in it and this play does have language and sexual inuendos but I don't think it will corrupt her mind! Actually it is a great way to talk about the different type of people who are the characters in this play and the time period and so much more. It saddens me becasue I love so much about this town (small collge town in Eastern, Oregon). But my 3 teens are in high school and I now want to leave as soon as they are finished (they will never come back here). But then the far right wins so I am torn.

[Texasgal]

11. Oh how horrible.

I am so sorry for your daughter. Damn fundies ruin everything.

I remember in HS our drama dept. wanted to do Grease. We had 3 parents protest because of the MOONING scene which the director agreed to cut out to no avail. :mad:

What is it with ART that people get all uptight about??

[eagertolearn]

14. My daughter will survive if the play doesn't happen but

to me this is such a bigger issue than the play. We can't let the town get away with stopping this from being performed anywhere!

[Texasgal]

15. Oh, I agree that there is a larger issue.

This is why it is so important.

Your daughter is a very lucky girl to have such a caring, loving and free thinking mother.

[orleans]

56. here's a suggestion. put the play on in your backyard

seriously. if you can't find a location to perform it, the kids still want to do it--do a few backyard performances of it when the weather gets nice.

i know someone who began a little summer theater group with her daughter and the daughter's friends. it went on for years and years, possibly over 20 years--every summer--several plays, high school students were directing the younger ones, and she would do several plays across the summer. it got so popular that it had to be by invitation only and parents had to pay in order to have their kids involved. it was absolutely wonderful.

...or...rent a space in the next town over and have the parents agree to split the rental fee. charge admission to recoup some of the money.

i am not familiar with the play--but i have seen the hypocritical bullshit of some "holier than thou" people and they drive me INSANE! (best of luck dealing with their bullshit)

[eagertolearn]

57. We have thought about outside but our weather is unpredictable here.

I just had a thought maybe they can move from house to house to put it on and have tickets sold (or given away) for different houses (a few people are starting to offer their homes). I have a feeling that when the town figures out that the students can't rent a place that they will step up. I've talked to several people today who didn't think it should be performed at the high school but were shocked to find out that "some people" are making it so they can't perform it anywhere.

[annabanana]

4. This is the basest, baldest censorship I have seen in months..

Here's a link to an article:

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/401717_picasso28.html

LA GRANDE, Ore. -- What would happen if Albert Einstein and Pablo Picasso were to meet in a bar? Superintendent Larry Glaze and the La Grande School Board decided high school students are too young to find out.

Glaze last week halted a high school production of the Steve Martin play "Picasso at the Lapin Agile," following a parent's objection to its adult content. Her complaint was accompanied by a petition that included 137 signatures.

La Grande High Principal Doug Potter and teacher Kevin Cahill, the director, appealed the decision, but the board voted this week to back Glaze's decision. Those voting in favor said they trusted Glaze's judgment and community opinion seemed to favor cancellation.

(more at link)

[eagertolearn]

13. Thank-You for posting the article! There is also a great u-tube video

done about this by Richie Scott a student(plays Picasso in the play). Can you find that an post that too? He interviewed the person who filed the petition and at the end some of the guys in the play responded to how she described them. These are great young adults!

[kdpeters]

24. I think this is it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ez1dnZF9DOU

You should edit your OP and put it in there if you still can.

[eagertolearn]

52. Here is another video from the board meeting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VxIH4ComAc

[NYC_SKP]

43. It's an important story, but I want you to learn to post links.

I understand that many here aren't computer savvy, but it's not hard.

An easy way to include a link is to find the webpage, and highlight and copy the URL (part that starts with http://).

Then, in the area for your message, hit "edit, paste" from the top of your screen.

You should also be able to right click over a webpage link, then select, "copy" or "copy link location", and then paste it into your message, also a right click thing.

Posting images in a message works much the same way.

Again, thanks for the story!

[eagertolearn]

45. Thanks. I did it once someplace else but then couldn't remember how I did it!

[NYC_SKP]

54. You're welcome!

Practice a few times, it should become second nature.

:toast:

[Obamanaut]

46. This is an example of why I think most DUers are very nice people.

What a friendly, helpful post.

[NYC_SKP]

53. It's for our community!

I learn quite a bit here, always happy to pay it forward.

Thanks! :hi:

[pepperbear]

5. TO THE PRESS WITH THEE! n/t

[G_j]

6. Picasso at the Lapin Agile

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Picasso_at_the_Lapin_Agile


Picasso at the Lapin Agile is a play written by Steve Martin in 1993. It features the characters of Albert Einstein and Pablo Picasso, who meet at a bar called the Lapin Agile (Nimble Rabbit) in Montmartre, Paris. It is set on October 8, 1904, and both men are on the verge of an amazing idea (Einstein will publish his special theory of relativity in 1905 and Picasso will paint Les Demoiselles d'Avignon in 1907) when they find themselves at the Lapin Agile, where they have a lengthy debate about the value of genius and talent while interacting with a host of other characters.


This was the first full-length play written by Steve Martin. The first reading of the play took place in Beverly Hills at Steve Martin's home, with Tom Hanks reading the role of Pablo Picasso and Chris Sarandon reading the role of Albert Einstein. Martin then held a nine day professional workshop of the play in Melbourne, Australia, at Malthouse Theatre (in conjunction with Belvoir Street Theatre) which ended with two public staged readings of the play. Following this, the play opened at the Steppenwolf Theatre Co. in Chicago, on October 13, 1994<1>. The show then enjoyed a successful run at the Westwood Playhouse (now known as the Geffen Playhouse) in Los Angeles. Finally, the show made its way to New York City. The play also had successful runs in other American cities.
Martin made several attempts to create a film version of the play, but none came to fruition; and on November 27, 2006 Martin stated on his website that "there is no movie of Picasso at the Lapin Agile in the works." <2>
Analysis

Each character in Lapin Agile performs a specific function. For example, Schmendiman, an inventor, believes he is a genius but really knows very little, while, Gaston, an amicable old Frenchman with prostate problems, is hesitant to listen to or believe anything that does not revolve around sex or drinking.
There's much discussion of the shaping of the twentieth century. Picasso obviously represents art, Einstein represents science, and Schmendiman represents commercialism.
Picasso and Einstein eventually realize that their abilities are equally valuable.
Once the main characters have their moment of insight, "The Visitor," an unidentified man from the future, crashes the party. The Visitor is not identified directly, although there is little question he is Elvis Presley, easily identified by his blue suede shoes, among other things. Elvis adds a third dimension to Picasso and Einstein's debate, representing the idea that genius is not always the product of academic or philosophical understanding, or as Gaston refers to it, "Brains."

[orleans]

58. youtube has the play up (from the northside theater company)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwaq4oF5sMc&NR=1

[troubleinwinter]

78. Thanks, orleans, for the youtube link to the entire play.

I watched it! Wonderful.

[tosh]

7. I hope all cast, crew and supporters of the production will be boycotting

that church and all of it's fundraising activities as well as businesses owned by signers of the petition.

Just sayin'.:evilfrown:

Edit for sp. - oops.

[eagertolearn]

10. We are being stifled. Thank you all for responding.

I'm feeling better all ready. This didn't get very far in the news in Oregon.

[bertman]

8. Turn the tables on the bastards. File formal complaints along with signed petitions

for ANY MENTION WHATSOEVER OF ANYTHING RELIGIOUS. It should be very easy since our public schools seem to have become extensions of christian churches.


What's good for the goose should be good for La Granders. So to speak.

[eagertolearn]

12. We handed them signed petitions but "we" are out numbered here.

Our school district didn't gives much time and they would definitely like to sweep this under the rug right now. Here is the web site of the news paper where you can follow the fast process since Feb.19th. www.lagrandeobserver.com.

[mimitabby]

69. good grief while you're there

check out the poll they have on their front page! (the La Grande Observer)

[eagertolearn]

80. You can kind of understand our town a little better after looking at how the poll was answered!

You should have seen how hard it was to fight for Obama here!

[Bluenorthwest]

16. Such iditots!

Of all plays to get in an uproar over...this makes me so angry.

[katanalori]

17. Off to Greatest you go

I just gave you the 5th REC so this can go to GREATEST. This is about censorship by and for the fundies, no small matter.

[eagertolearn]

18. Thank-You!

[Lyric]

19. I've never understood the fundie mindset.

What is so hard about just not DOING the things you disagree with? If you disagree with the play, then don't go and don't let your kids go. Why the hell do you have to take it away from everyone ELSE'S kids, too?

It's kinda like TV. If you don't want to watch hardcore sex, don't buy a porn video. If you don't like country music, don't watch CMT. If you think golf and football are immoral, stay the hell away from ESPN. What is the brain disconnect that keeps fundies from making these simple connections?

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

21. Me thinks this is their response to complaining about nativity scenes....

...and Christmas plays.

Just a thought. Not saying it is right, but you can expect in deep red areas, this shit will be seen as a chance to strike back.

[rolltideroll]

26. I recall Jesus saying a lot about the need for vengance.

[Yukari Yakumo]

62. Their true ambition is theocracy. Censorship is only one step towards the dark side. {nt}

[Pacifist Patriot]

73. I'm with you.

I have never understood the need to be obnoxious and intrusive into other people's activities. It is not like they are proposing roasting a small child on a spit in the school yard. Sheesh!

[eagertolearn]

20. Here is the YouTube video of how the students feel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ez1dnZF9DOU

[rolltideroll]

22. School prayer

I am 27 and remember clearly praying before lunch, led by the teacher,until I was in 5th grade. I really hope these kids get to put on the play. Nothing is worse than turning kids off to education in the years before college.

[Tesha]

23. Contact Steve Martin? or

contact the local UU Church they might be willing to help
or
have all the people in favor contact the church that's trying to nix the play
or
get a newspaper, radio, or tv station involved
or
do all the above


and best of luck, This is important, especially for the kids involved.

[eagertolearn]

25. We don't have a Unitarian church and now probably all the churches are in support of the ban!

[Celebration]

27. Really?

All churches? Try Episcopalian. Is there a synagogue? How about Catholic?

[eagertolearn]

28. I don't think anyone wants to ruffle feathers around here.

We have 13,000 people with a greater area of 25,000.

[Tesha]

33. You do understand that, to win this, a lot of feathers will have to be ruffled, right?

And the Religious Right *NEVER* gives up. The way they win is to
wear down the opposition by coming back and coming back and
coming back, over and over again, until *WE* give up.

Back in the summer, Mr. Tesha was being recruited by Micron
in Boise (relatively near La Grande); we took a look at the
political reality of that area and decided we'd *NEVER* be
happy anywhere in that area for reasons that this thread
makes all too apparent. Many parts of our country are
completely in the thrall of religious nutcases.

Tesha

[eagertolearn]

48. Yes and there are a few people that are willing to ruffle feathers and can without a risk.

[Tesha]

29. cripes!

how many LDS churches do you have there???

aclu-or.org


I'll bet they might be interested...

[eagertolearn]

34. They have two big churches but I believe 4 wards but for the most part they are

great people that keep to themselves and contribute to the community. But I'm afraid that this woman is giving them a bad name and she is getting lots of support now from other churches (not the middle of the road ones like Presbyterian, Episcopal etc..). But each of those churches has its liberal component and conservative components. I don't have a problem with organized religion other then the fact that they seem the most intolerant people. If they can just follow their beliefs without affecting those who want to follow what they want to follow. What another speaker said at the board meeting was great "Just because we don't follow your values doesn't mean we don't have values". If they don't like the play then don't come.

[eagertolearn]

36. We've tried to contact Steve Martin but I don't know if that would

help put on the play here. We have all contacted the news press in Oregon and got only a little news on line. Our paper did a good job, after firing up the local churches who reacted after the first two articles. We are still trying to find a building but like I have said people are afraid. The production will go on even if we have to put on multiple performances in someone's house. We do have parks but I'm thinking the city would say no. We have a place that they can continue practicing so hopefully by the time they are ready we'll find something. Thanks for your ideas.

[Maraya1969]

30. What about a Unitarian Universalist church in the area? We put on

"The Vagina Monologues" at that church here and it is all about sex. It is also about empowering women and letting women feel good about their sexuality.

It is a great church by the way.

[prole_for_peace]

49. I was thinking along the same lines

Maybe call a local theater group and see if the students can use their space for one night. Maybe the city would let them use a local park.

[Pacifist Patriot]

72. I checked and the nearest one is 80 miles away in Washington.

Two of my UU churches have performed the monologues. In fact, I was 8 months pregnant when I participated the last time which means we're probably due for another run.

[MikeE]

31. Do you have a large park or a supporter with a large open place?

I'm thinking this is the same as "Hamlet 2", if you ever saw the movie. Put it on anywhere and get the message out to EVERYONE.

[eagertolearn]

41. My daughter said that movie is at blockbusteers. We'll go get it tonight. thanks.

[liskddksil]

61. excellent and timely movie on this exact subject

[Pacifist Patriot]

71. Coincidentally, I just checked that out of the library yesterday afternoon and..

will be watching it tonight.

[blueraven95]

32. first, I would talk to the aclu.

this sounds like a first amendment right issue, and I think they would be interested.


Next, find the publicly owned land in town - I'm sure there is a park or something (at least I assume). Get a permit to gather (or protest) - most places require them, I think. If there isn't a public space like a park, then in front of the town hall, or if not that, then I'm sure someone will donate a backyard for an evening. Perform the play there. I'm willing to bet people will donate costumes and set pieces (hell, I'd kick in a few bucks, if a fundraiser were put together). I don't know the play, so I don't know much about the technical necessities, but I would restage it to have be as minimalist as possible. At this point, performing the play as written is now an act of protest. Treat it as such, and perform it.

I would even write letters to Steve Martin about it. There is a (slight) chance he might want to get involved which would get more attention. Every little bit of noise you can make about it is a slap in the face of those people who are supporting censorship, which, you should remind them, is anti-American.

[westbound]

35. We tried to rent a space to perform it in

but as soon as they found out what we wanted to rent it for they refused. We have also tried to get in contact with Steve Martin and even talked to his agent, publicist, and assistant but haven't heard anything back from him personally. The play doesn't require an elaborate set or elaborate costumes we just need a place to perform it.

[saltpoint]

37. 'Haven't read or seen this play but it surely does feel like an infestation

of fundamentalists in the public school.

Is this a public school?

[westbound]

38. Yes it is a public school

La Grande High School

[saltpoint]

39. Well, then, the fundies who shut the play down should be

taken out behind the barn and have their fannies whipped.

Shame on them.

I hope the young people at La Grande High School rally and mobilize a letter-writing campaign to local media.

It would also be interesting to find out what businesses are represented in the church's congregation and organize boycotts of those businesses until they apologize for their censorship.

The church sought to subvert the curriculum of a public high school. They should be ashamed of themselves.

Welcome to DU, by the way.

[RiverStone]

40. I wonder if the Supt. will cancel school if a teacher puts up Christmas lights?

Anything Christmasy in the schools offends me - so he/she sure as hell better cancel school!

Oh I see, that is not offensive but this kids play was.

Why are some fundies so afraid - so fucking afraid of real life?

[Pushed To The Left]

42. Has anybody contacted the ACLU or Americans United? If this is a public school, it seems like a

clear violation of church-state separation.

[eagertolearn]

44. Yes they have been e-mailed. Another parent is working on that.

[anonymous171]

75. There is? I don't see it.

[bbernardini]

47. I posted the YouTube link as my Facebook profile, and my right-wing nutjob "friend" replied thusly:

"Oh good grief. There are so many better plays they could do. Who cares they can't do that one."

I bet she'd have a fit if a performance of The Passion was shut down...

[prole_for_peace]

50. We ought to start that rumor and see what happens. n/t

[eagertolearn]

51. Thats funny. She is right ,there are a lot of plays but this is the one

the director picked. I think because of how difficult it is to perform right. He knew it was performed in West Linn (on the west side of Oregon near Portland) and they didn't have any problems. Though their budget allows 5 plays(they always perform a kid one too) and ours only two plays.

[Wednesdays]

55. K&R

:kick:

[Cid_B]

59. Did they object to specific scenes or the whole thing?

nt

[eagertolearn]

60. From what I understood she wanted to censor parts of more than half the pages.

She wanted every cuss word, every reference to God or Hell, all sexual innuendos and anything to do with alcohol (a little hard because the setting is in the bar). The superintendent gave the director a choice take out all of that or cancel this play (and choose another play).

[jazz78]

63. A couple of location suggestions . . .

I know you may have already talked to people at these places, but just in case:

Have you tried EOU? Specifically, their theatre department (assuming they have one), their music department, their library (librarians are usually very anti-censorship, and sometimes have space that you could use), and/or whomever does space rentals for the campus?

Have you tried your local library? I know the library in my town has a policy that says that anyone can use the space, as long as the whole community is invited.

Looking a little farther afield, have you tried the Lodge at Anthony Lakes Ski area? Given the financial troubles everyone's having at the moment, hosting this might be worth it to them to get people up the mountain.

If your student performers are able to travel, have you considered contacting other, more distant colleges and/or theaters to see if they would be willing to host? People in the arts community will usually pull together against something like this . . .


All of this being said - you're right, this is rotten, and it shouldn't have happened. I hope you and all the other parents, students and community members will be able to bring something good out of all of this.

[eagertolearn]

66. Most of the EOU professors support freedom of speech and believe

in staying away from censorship. On the side, some are also worried about the separation of church and state. But the interim president said no (from what I have heard because of pressure from people in the community). We'd like to put it on in town somewhere so those who have been helping us fight for this can go (300 high school students signed a petition to support the play). The library is a great idea but I wonder if they can say no because of a profanity rule or something from their policy. Thanks for your idea's.

[1]

64. about the people who did sign this petition, are they all parents of those in the local high school?

are they all taxpayers? or just busybodies?

that would be an interesting question to know...

[eagertolearn]

67. There is a combination of both. Most of the people who spoke

on the side against the play at the board meeting did not have kids in school anymore but they are all tax payers and used that as a threat (not wanting any of their taxes going towards something like this). Another problem is that we have been trying to pass a school bond for several years without luck so they were holding that over everyone's heads too.

[discount moralist]

76. Cave

Nothing like caving in to uneducated mob rule...

[uberllama42]

65. My school did Picasso at the Lapin Agile last year

I didn't see it, but I don't remember it being censored. This year they did a play about 9/11 called Recent Tragic Events, and the dean of students insisted that the f-word be taken out. It definitely wouldn't have been the first time the word 'fuck' was uttered on our stage.

The guy just left, and I think it was all just a power trip on his way out the door. We ran an editorial ripping into him in the school paper, and he got pretty upset. Then he just dropped the issue the day before he left.

I don't understand these censorship people. I guess they think our minds are so fragile that we can't handle this sort of thing.

Best of luck to you.

[eagertolearn]

68. Thanks. That was the word the only word director took out.

If he changed a few other lines it may of helped but that wasn't the option. He had to changes a large portion of the play or cancel it.

[Pacifist Patriot]

70. I am sorry the nearest UU church is about 80 miles away from La Grande.

It is in Pasco, WA.

I can sympathize because of the power the Calvary Chapel wields in my community. Fortunately, they would not have the clout to pull off a complete and utter shut down, but they could make the situation very uncomfortable and messy.

I'd be tempted to perform it in a public park, but then I'm one for stirring things up.

I am so sorry you are having to deal with this. It is utterly preposterous and absolutely maddening!

[Pacifist Patriot]

74. There is a UCC church 40 miles away in Enterprise.

[aikoaiko]

77. This is a problem of superintendent duties and not one of separation of church and state.

An organization made a petition. Any organization may do so including a religious one.

The superintendent needs to grow a spine and/or improve his/her negotiation and persuasion skills. He has a duty. Yes, he works for the community, but he can't abdicate his responsibility to the students.

[Pacifist Patriot]

79. Close one and why it's usually not an easy call.

It is a problem of superintendent duties, but when he allows a church to influence his decision making and help set policy regarding this play, he is allowing his position as a representative of the government to promote a particular religion. Therefore it could very well be interpreted as being overlapping issues where both come into play.

[eagertolearn]

81. Thanks. Thats how I felt and many from the community have

called me to support what I said at the board meeting about this. I recognize that anyone can protest about something but it was my concern that so many from one church were influencing this one decision.

[eagertolearn]

82. Great news! I just went to a budget meeting at the college and it was standing room only

overflowing into the hallways. The college president said they could not sanction the play (I missed exactly why but I heard something about using college money which is tax payer money) but that the EOU student democrats have come forward and they will rent one of the theaters at the college so the show can still go on. The college students said they wouldn't charge but would take donations toward a scholarship to help a student from La Grande High School go to college at EOU in the drama department. The EOU democrats were protesting outside along with some high school students and parents who had joined. Wow I am so impressed with the youth now-a-days! I'm not sure how this will all pan out but I will keep you informed. Thanks for your support. Many students have been following your responses and I think i have them hooked on DU now!

[Pacifist Patriot]

83. Brilliant!

[condoleeza]

84. Steve Martin would love this

here is his contact information, I don't have IMDBPro, but my daughter does, so if this link isn't good to find his agent, then send me a message and I will have my daughter check his resume out and send you whatever it says.
http://famous-relationships.topsynergy.com/Steve_Martin/Contact.asp

This is just the kind of stuff he would jump on if you still need some help to put the pressure on. I'm from Oregon, you have my sympathies living in the red part.

[eagertolearn]

85. Thanks for the info. A few people have tried to contact him

and I guess he is on site making a movie somewhere. Two students had to drop out of the play ("Elvis" and a stage manager) because of pressure from their family, who were getting pressure from their churchs. So sad.

[condoleeza]

86. His Publicist would be the one to take this on

if Steve is on location. Any kind of publicity is good publicity in show biz. I'm sorry 2 kids dropped out, sad for them and their narrow minded parents. I have a feeling this show will have a larger audience because of this. I'm an Oregonian, BTW.

[eagertolearn]

87. Update on play- college democrats step up to back play when college president said no.

I am so impressed with these students. They will sponsor the play and raise funds to pay for everything and will not charge to see the play, but will take donations so that a La Grande High School student can get a scholarship to go to the college to major in theater. Some in the community are still upset that the play will go on (read letters to the editor in the newspaper and you'll see what I mean). The play will run May 16,17 and 18 in the colleges big theater! Come see the play.
http://www.lagrandeobserver.com/News/Local-News/Play-banned-at-LHS-will-run-at-EOU