If obesity is so simple

[SmileyRose]

We did a family test with 2 women. One sits behind a desk all day, tends to lay around and snack pretty much non stop and the other has a job requiring walking and lift most of the day, does 2 aerobics classes per week does every charity walk she can get her hands on and rides her bike just about everywhere. They are both of child bearing age, in similar health and within 4 years in age.

We thought we were going to prove something to the fat one. Both of these women were painfully honest keeping track of what they ate and when. The result really surprised us.

The one who is quite sedentary and snacks quite a lot is the thinner one. She's actually a little underweight but is one of those nervous type A personalities. It also turns out she's a junk food junkie. Cheeseburgers and fries almost every day for lunch, eat out a lot for dinner, normally skips breakfast, and snacks on regular pop, chips, pretzels, nuts etc pretty much non-stop between dinner and bedtime. After 3 months we estimated her average daily calorie intake at about 3500, and the carbs and fat where really through the roof. She was averaging about 1300 or more calories a day in the last few hours before she went to bed.


The fatter one is quite frankly obese. But she is VERY active, has good muscles, can pick up a 100# bag of seed by herself no problem. But she does have a good 50# of fat on her also, which she's gained over the last 10 years a little at a time. And she has always been this active. After 3 months we found out she is so busy during the day she tends to skip all meals until she's done for the day. They she tends to eat a whole days worth of food in the 3 or 4 hours before she goes to bed. However, her diet is astonishingly healthy, whole grain breads, fruit, veggies, salads, fish, leaner meats. Her idea of sweets is fruit or oatmeal with a little honey. We estimated her average daily calories to be around 1500. But these calories were pretty much all at once. This test was a real eye opener for her and she has since started making herself eat a little throughout the day. She's now eating 2200 calories a day, has not changed her lifestyle one bit, and has lost 14 pounds so far. That's right, she EATING MORE CALORIES but WEIGHS LESS.

When we did this test we thought we were going to say "gotcha" to the fatter one, instead we all learned that food in versus exercise out is not as simple as one might think. Our metabolisms are complicated and unique to us.

[BlooInBloo]

1. "Our metabolisms are complicated and unique to us. " - Very true, and never disputed.

[daninthemoon]

2. cool. it's not my fault.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

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[daninthemoon]

7. no, trolls are fatter.

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. No it is NOT your fault

[SmileyRose]

10. Why would blame need to be assigned to body weight?

How we eat, how we move, how we live our own lives with our own bodies is not a mistake that need to be assigned blame. (My fault, your fault, god's fault, mother nature's fault)

Blame is unnecessary.

Now, looking at how I can best care for the body I was given, with all it's assorted genetic quirks does require me to be honest about what I'm dealing with and how best to tailor my choices to what my particular body needs.

But "fault", or guilt, is not only unnecessary, but usually counterproductive.

[valerief]

3. Interesting. Thanks. nt

[elocs]

4. Obesity is not simple, but we do have the benefit of simple minds whose posts are tortured

by a stunted intellect and a limited vocabulary.

[AZBlue]

6. Metabolism seems like it could be it's own field of science.

There's so much that affects it and it can act so many different ways in different people. I really think some doctors should specialize in it - that way they can look at everything in a single person's life and figure out what will work for each individual.

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. Over the last ten years they started to

why we are still in diapers when it comes to all of this

I suspect some day a specialist will give you or me a tailored diet, that will work with your particular issues.. instead of the cookie cutter one diet fits all that we have today.

Oh and trust me, the diet industry will fight that

[Lex]

12. The hormones that flood our bodies in different ways after we eat

I guess effect metabolism too. It is an interesting science I would imagine.

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. Fascinating,

and I am sure that she's continue to loose

Now that the body is probably not going into famine mode every day

Did you guys also test for the usual culprits?

[SmileyRose]

15. She did get a good checkup

We were all so stunned at how much lower her calorie count was than the "skinny" one that we decided she either lied about her eating or else she was sick. Well, the woman may be a lot of things but a liar isn't one of them. She took this test really seriously and her husband (my brother) isn't one of those toxic assholes that she has to hide from. My family isn't into the whole guilt or shaming thing anyway.

When she took our little test to her doctor they did the bloodwork for various issues, all fine. They also did a glucose tolerance test that about made her faint. What a mess. She was pre-diabetic and was going to be in deep cheese if she didn't make a change.

She said her brains are working better now that she's eating throughout the day too and my brother told me his love life is even better, although he's not sure if it's that she's more confident with less poundage or that her energy level is more stable.

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. COOL good to hear

and yes you loose some poundage you get more energy

[whoneedstickets]

13. How long did you track them for? What about weekends?

Sorry this is a nice 'story' which you have offered as some incredible truth to explain how someone could live without losing weight on 1500 calories per day -- which is about that fatter woman's resting metabolic rate. I don't buy a word.

[Lex]

14. you don't have to "buy a word"

it makes not one whit of difference if you believe it or not

[SmileyRose]

17. Neither woman has a Mon-Fri type job

so "weekends" are often work days. And yes, we did days off too.

They tracked for 3 months. Every day. My sister in law comes from a family full of various degrees of overweight. She was always the thinnest and was determined not to be a 400 pounder, which is why she stayed so active. But as the pounds crept up 5 this year, 7 the next year etc, she kept cutting her calories and weeding more things out of her diet trying to lose what she gained.

She did most of the right things but clearly eating a day's worth of calories near bedtime was a problem for her.

[whoneedstickets]

22. I could see how you might train your body...

..if you ate only at the end of the day to store as much energy as possible for tomorrow. But it is hard to believe that she could eat nearly BMR level energy intake and not lose weight if her job was really as active as it sounds (though I've seen active laborers who really managed to avoid sustained activity -- sat as often as possible, sauntered everywhere-- they were all overweight)

[nadinbrzezinski]

From my experience, purely anecdotal, I loose best when I eat small

meals, it may have to do with sugar spikes and the body setting for a famine defense mechanism

[Quantess]

18. It is well known that most people underestimate how much they eat.

The women's self reports about how much they consumed are not necessarily reliable or accurate, no matter how honest you think they are. It's anecdotal.

[tonysam]

19. The Problem is Attitude, Not "Obesity."

We need to grow up and learn that a desired appearance is not equivalent to self-worth or virtue. I can't believe some of the things I read on DU.

[whoneedstickets]

21. Being a healthy weight is not all about appearance or vanity..

Obesity has huge life-limiting health impacts: diabetes, joint degeneration, heart-disease, cancer. If you're happy being fat, that's great! Think of all the retirement money you can spend today and that you won't need when you're not 75.

[Quantess]

35. Did you mean to reply to the OP?

It doesn't look like your post is a response to mine, going by content.

[Mojorabbit]

20. My doc told me the same thing

years ago. Spread it out over the day. Lots of small meals. I was eating one meal a day and he said it puts your body into a starvation mode and it will then convert calories to fat as a protection measure.
I still only eat one meal a day most of the time. I just have no appetite during the day. I have to make myself eat.

[Withywindle]

37. My doc told me that too.

I have a different problem: I'm scrawny (it's genetic; so are both my parents) AND hypoglycemic. My health is best maintained by lots of little snacks throughout the day that add up to the same as three balanced meals. I have to keep reminding myself to do it, because I don't naturally have much of an appetite at all, but when I do, I certainly do feel better.

[Baikonour]

23. Someone explain to me why obesity is the new meme to obsess over around here.

Did I not get the memo?

[nadinbrzezinski]

24. The attacks on Rush Limbaugh's WEIGHT.

Don;t get me wrong, there is plenty to attack him on, but weight should not be one of them

In fact, it became a way to attack fatties... to be brutally honest

[Baikonour]

25. It's kind of funny, really.

The same people who were attacking Limbaugh on his weight were some of the same people condemning those whom called Bobby Jindal "Piyush."

:crazy:

[nadinbrzezinski]

26. Could it be that we are seeing this as adults? Serious

bobby is bobby, he's called himself that way since he was four, I'm not one to judge him, (on that issue) and Rush may be overweight, but he's joined by plenty of Muricans. There's plenty so skewer both just in their ideology

Now obesity is not a minor problem. And if we get national health. something like NHS, it will have to become a national priority... and finding out why people get fat is critical... as well as how and how to help them loose and chiefly keep it off

At a policy level it is critical... see diabetes, see CAD, see Strokes, see high blood pressure

To whit those food additives may have a lot to do with this as well, which leads to food policy and food safety

See far more complex than just a few fatties this is what worked for me, or why things are not that simple

[Baikonour]

27. Leave the debating about obesity to the real doctors.

Not the armchair ones around here. Like I said, there's much more politically pressing issues at hand that we as a collective can actually do something about. Posting inflammatory nonsense about obese people isn't going to suddenly make them skinny.

Is "fatties" the proper nomenclature these days? I guess I need to purchase a newer medical dictionary.

Edit: On re-read, my post sounded confrontational. I'm not attacking you. Indeed, I agree with you. I'm just tired of the absurd memes around here lately.

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. to the real doctors...

thankfully my GP admits that she does not have full access to all info, and that her patients at times inform themselves better

She likes INFORMED patients, encourages informed patients and admits that the web has made her job both harder and easier

And fatties is the current lets make them feel bad nomenclatures among the puritan thinking brigade, plenty of that here

And as I said, this is not just for the specialists. if that was the case, I'd go see a bariatric specialists, the actual term of doctors who specialize in obesity.

Or to an endocrynologists, since a lot of it is tied to that

I could go on

And we want health care... obesity is part of the policy level discussion

[Baikonour]

30. Obese people should be informed about their affliction, I agree,

But a skinny person who has no idea what it's like to be overweight has no right in taking the moral high-ground. Or as you put it, be part in the puritan thinking brigade around here. But yes, obesity needs to be a policy level discussion.

[nadinbrzezinski]

32. Now I started the two major threads, trying to educate people on it

and I am overweight by any actuarial table, even though I have lost quite a bit

My personal travels including a lot of readying on it.

At a policy level, which is a point I tried to make to make thorugh some of this, is that it is not just an American problem, wish it was... it is considered a world wide epidemic

Now I could not prove it, but I have the sneaky suspicion that the green revolution might have something to do with this. Our current incredible yields of wheat for example, are not as nutrient rich as they were. Bodies demand them... we eat more mass, ergo more calories...

If my gut feeling, I'd better find a scientist to talk about this with, if correct, or even on the right tract, that will be a hell of a price to pay for the green revolution and industrial agriculture

[Baikonour]

34. I still put a lot of the blame on HFC syrup being in almost everything.

HFC syrup suppresses the feeling of being "full" so thus, people eat more.

But of course the CRA responded with those awful commercials claiming that HFC syrup is perfectly healthy for you.

[nadinbrzezinski]

39. I noticed those too

the reason... real research is on the way about that

From a blog, but this will call for more research on my own

Mercury in HFC

great

http://honuaina.blogspot.com/2009/01/add-your-name.html

Just a prelim cursory search...

[moez]

42. Fatties shouldn't be attacked for being fat and nasty....

But, it looks like they are harming the environment...

Obesity contributes to global warming, too
Friday, 16 May 2008 Michael Kahn
Reuters

Obese and overweight people require more fuel to transport them and the food they eat, and a literally swelling global population will make this source of greenhouse emissions worse, say UK researchers.

Dr Phil Edwards and Dr Ian Roberts from the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine argue their point in this week's issue of The Lancet.

...

The researchers found that obese people require 1,680 daily calories to sustain normal energy and another 1,280 calories to maintain daily activities, 18% more than someone with a stable BMI.

Because thinner people eat less and are more likely to walk than rely on cars, a slimmer population would lower demand for fuel for transportation and for agriculture, says Edwards.

This would take the pressure off food and energy supplies and reduce greenhouse gases from agriculture and transport, he says.

...

http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2008/05/16/2247103.htm

[smalll]

38. Because many have a psychological need to believe that they and so many of their fellow Americans...

are fat right now other than for the reasons than A) we eat a lot more than we used to, and B) that we get up off our butts and move a lot less than we used to.

[riderinthestorm]

29. Have you ever seen the "Clydesdales" at marathons?

These are enormous people, some of them fat actually, who RUN 26 mile marathons. They train daily, diet religiously, yet they are really big people. They term themselves "Clydesdales" so I'm not mocking them.

I work with sporthorses every single day, horses who are ridden HARD and methodically trained to perform. These are age old sports with centuries of history so it's not as if we are inventing the wheel on training and conditioning these animals (3 day eventing which is the old cavalry test - the sport that Christopher Reeve was injured doing, and dressage). Metabolism is a crazy thing: some horses require enormous calories to stay fit while others live on air doing virtually the same work - and we struggle to keep them from getting fat. It's a known factor in animal sport circles that metabolism is a wild variable. Why wouldn't humans be any different?

FWIW, I completely understand your informal study. Personally, I am dead cert that I am genetically programmed to survive famines. I live on "air" and struggle to stay within a normal weight range despite heavy, heavy farm labor 7 days/week. My husband eats @ 6000 calories/day and cannot keep weight on his frame (6'3", 160 lbs soaking weight).

Native American Eskimos are a classic example of a population that is genetically programmed to survive on fewer calories than other populations while maintaining a "chubby" frame. I can't remember the study that examined the stats on their nutrition and caloric intake but it's pretty shocking when you look at the weight/calorie stats. They are a hardy folk.

[nadinbrzezinski]

31. Now that you mention it, my three parrots,

we have a cockatiel, a nanday and a sun

When we feed them the Tiel easts very slowly, it takes him over twenty minutes

The sun eats a lot... next person that tells me that they eat like birds, I'll laugh.. seen her eat... and very fast, the nanday steals food but he eats the most, he's the largest bird, still is thin as a rail, just as the tiel

The cockatiel walks everywhere, and the sun is the least active, and have I mentioned she eats? She's a little chubby.

I am also convinced that some animals eat slower than others, and some are more active than others

We are an animal

:-)

[moez]

43. Wow!

the wedding pictures must look like the number "10"!

[BadgerKid]

33. From lurking in bodybuilding forums,

I tell you they would say that the active gal's body was undergoing a starvation response; because her body processed too few calories, her body's metabolism slowed. Sometimes obesity can be fought against with the drug bromocriptine that, IIRC, re-sensitizes certain receptors in the brain.

[flvegan]

36. What an idiotic test.

Dare I call it trash? Yeah, I do.

[riderinthestorm]

40. So call it trash. But you are an animal lover.

So you know (I assume) that metabolism plays a huge role in any dietary program for any individual animal. Some are neurotic "worryers" who eat up vast amts of feed while others are placid "easy keepers" doing the exact same thing.

You can trash anecdotal evidence all you want but I'm sure of the links based on my observations.

[flvegan]

41. Yes, I'm an animal lover, but I'm also a fitness professional.

What's your point?