Are some fat people too thin skinned?

[Philosoraptor]

I am overweight myself first of all. And I have met overweight people who seem to be on a crusade to stop all fat related humor. I was talking to a lady friend about the fat ballet I saw on t.v. in San Francisco, and before I could get too far into the conversation she attacked me for attacking the fat, as if they were some minority that is being treated unfairly in America, which I find silly.

I don't hate fat people, I am a fat person, I don't hate skinny people, or short people, or tall people, or cigarette smoking people, or beautiful people or ugly people. I don't hate anyone, unless they give me a good reason to.

I find it sort of silly, pardon me for saying so, that some fat people seem to think they are an oppressed minority.

Oh, and rush limbaugh is a fat, disgusting pig, if he was skinny, I'd say he was a skinny disgusting pig.

[rcrush]

1. Get in mah bellay!

[hlthe2b]

2. Given that seems to be all some "fat people" ever hear....

I'd say, no. Our society has a real issue with obesity and the cruel comments that are no longer tolerated towards race, ethnicity, gender, religion--- they all seem to be "saved up" to heap on the obese.


There are lots of reasons for being overweight or obese--from simple lack of self control that I certainly admit to, to far more serious physicial or emotional issues. In fact morbid obesity is one of those strong correlations seen in children who were victims of incest. Why would anyone want to heap more pain and shame on these people, whose attempts to "self-medicate" away their deep seated psychological injuries with food, have led to their obesity? Depression is also linked to increased body weight and intermediate obesity. Again, why kick those already emotionally suffering? Is your need for a quick laugh at other's expense, THAT IMPORTANT to you?

So, NO. I don't know how to make you more sensitive to the issue, PhilosoR... but you really ought to be. To tell you the truth, your attitudes are, well, those of a bully. :shrug:

[KittyWampus]

30. I'd say our society has a mean streak, period. It starts in childhood and is encouraged

at least tacitly.

That whole flap about cheese sandwiches... the underlying issue no one seemed willing to tackle are kids who ostracize, taunt and bully those who are different.

As a young girl, I was on the receiving end. Yes, it made me learn to be independent, thick-skinned, tolerant towards others and helped me develop a sense of humor.

That said, children should be taught in school that cutting remarks and crappy behavior is not tolerated. It is possible.

Most kids are born with an innate sense of "fairness". Pecking order behavior- why is it allowed?

[hobbit709]

3. The PC crowd have absolutely no sense of humor.

Say anything about anyone and they get offended. A friend of mine once described himself as a Po-Wop and someone got offended by that. His response was "I'm Polish AND Italian"-which was true. His father was an Italian immigrant and his mother was a Polish immigrant.

[Philosoraptor]

5. Its not that I'm a totally insensitive jerk

Though I sometimes am, its that some large folks see their weight as some sort of a civil rights issue, or a cross to bear, pun intended.

[hobbit709]

10. At any given time, we all can be a jerk.

And I'm way overweight myself. My attitude to people is, if you don't like me the way I am, then fuck you.

[Philosoraptor]

12. Hoy hoy, I'm the boy, I got 300 pounds of heavenly joy...Howlin' Wolf

[Missy Vixen]

47. And you are concerned about this WHY?

If you think that the fat deserve the abuse heaped on them every day of their lives, why do you even start this thread in the first place? "Some sort of civil rights issue"? If you made that comment about any other group that finds themselves marginalized by bigots in our society, you'd be shouted off this site. The fat, though, are open season. After all, they should just go to a "concentration camp" (as I've seen advocated ON THIS SITE within the past week) to lose the weight.

I don't treat others differently because of their appearance. Why do others think it's appropriate to treat me (and many others,) that way? Why is bullying and shaming protected behavior in this society?

[hlthe2b]

26. There is a word for those

who hurt, berate and ridicule others for their own amusement, despite knowing the pain it causes. They are called bullies.


Sorry, if that is "too PC for you." Your amusement, after all, is all that matters. :eyes:

[hobbit709]

27. I rest my case.

[hlthe2b]

31. As do I

[barbtries]

4. fat is unattractive.

fat is unhealthy.
fat reflects lack of self control.
etcetera.

i do think that fat is kind of the last "pc" way to slam people. no more racist jokes, enough with the dumb blondes, polacks, etc. but fat is a handy target, and still acceptable to most people.

i am also fat, in fact fatter now than ever, and i've been wrestling with my weight for over 40 years. i don't fly off the handle like the woman you mention, but i probably don't laugh as hard as skinny people at fat jokes either. in conversation i tend to bring my weight up before other people so they know that it bothers me, because it does.

i agree with you about rush. and for a skinny disgusting pig, there's coulter. and for a tall well proportioned pig, you got o'reilly. no shortage of pigs no matter what shape they may be.

[Philosoraptor]

8. I don't look down my nose at large folks.

I really don't, and I have never called anyone a dirty name, as a kid or adult, other than rush.

[barbtries]

18. really?

i've called practically every prominent republican for the past 30+ years a dirty name. still do. :yoiks:

[Carni]

46. Rove and Ari Fleisher also resemble pigs

Look at the photos of Limbaugh, Rove and Fleisher....they actually look similar and Rove and Fleisher are not the size of Rush.

Size in this case does not matter! lol

[Smith_3]

6. With two thirds overweight, "minority" is probably not the correct word. nt

[Roon]

7. I have been fat

and I have been skinny. People treat you differently..I know this for a fact..

[datasuspect]

14. yep

it's easier to get laid by other attractive people when you're in shape.

[Roon]

15. Not only that

but in general...people are nicer to you..they smile more...you get better service..etc.

[Dorian Gray]

51. I think that's true...

but I also think that if you are in better shape, you feel better about yourself and put yourself out there more. I say that because I've lost 60 lbs., and I find myself friendlier for two reasons. 1) I feel better in general and 2) I am more confident. The lack of confidence held me back a few years ago. I wouldn't be as friendly because I was afraid I would be rejected for not being attractive enough. Now I have less fear about that.

[distantearlywarning]

29. Interestingly, that hasn't been my issue.

I'm still a pretty attractive woman at size 14, with a nice rack and a pretty face. I'm happily married to a husband who...um...likes a little more cushion for the pushin', and have actually been propositioned by others I personally found attractive, within the last few years. I admit that don't really get that dynamic myself, but it has happened. I think maybe "sexy" isn't quite as clear-cut as Hollywood would have us think.

But anyway, the treatment by strangers having to do with non-sexual stuff is where I've actually experienced the most discrimination. And it's the thing I care about the most, too. I don't need to have attractive people propositioning me (except for hubby, and that's an issue that nobody else gets a vote on anyway). I just need to be treated like a human being.

I don't think every man on the street is attractive, for various reasons. And that's ok. Some of them don't think I'm attractive, for various reasons. And that's ok too. That dynamic was in place when I was skinny, fat, and in-between. Nobody is going to think every single other person in the world is sexy. But what's not ok is people assuming that I'm lazy, stupid, a bad person, of a lower social class, or whatever because of my weight, and treating me accordingly.

[Lost in CT]

41. Well thats discrimination

Attractive people should sleep with unattractive people... We need some sort of affirmative action for the ugly.

[Scout]

48. yeah, cuz that's always been my main goal in life ... fuck as many pretty people as possible

:eyes:

[Idir]

9. It depends.

There's a kind of people that wanna help seriously obese people, which is obviously better for that person's health and for society in general, and there's Size Zero Hollywood shiksas that wanna f**k up the body images of young girls, even though most are healthy, leading them to anorexia and depression.

But well, there's the First Amendment, it's technically there to prevent people from shutting you up, so while I'm not advocating for sizeism, I'm even less tolerant of PC, actually.

And yes. The fat are actually an oppressed <i>majority</i>. There's many studies showing that more attractive (I'm not saying that big isn't beautiful) have higher success in their professional lifes.

It's not like white people whining about "reverse discrimination" or the Christian Right (which is neither Christian nor right) nagging about Jews, Atheists, or Gays taking away their religious freedoms.
Fat people are actually oppressed. It's like in apartheid South Africa, just less extreme, at least IMHO.

[Philosoraptor]

11. The beautiful & symmetric always get promoted first, I agree.

But we all know people come in all shapes and sizes and colors, and we all know that the beautiful get all the breaks.

"I may not be a rich man, but I WILL be a fat man".
......Louis Armstrong

[Philosoraptor]

13. "I may not be a rich man, but I WILL be a fat man"....Louis Armstrong

[quickesst]

16. "Oh, and rush limbaugh is a fat, disgusting pig,"

Agreed, and someone who may carry the same weight as Limpballs, but is not the syphilitic fever ravaged, lowdown dirty piece of shit he embodies is not. I don't understand people who can't see, or understand the difference. Thanks.
quickesst

[ejpoeta]

17. i don't know. you get kind of sensitive when people stare at you.

and give you dirty looks. I feel that way. I wasn't always overweight. After my first daughter, I didn't really know how to fix it. I never had had that problem before. and then after ashley, my second.... it was even worse. and i have been depressed and just have NO energy. i try to exercise and stuff, but kids start crawling all over me. It isn't like people like me want to be fat. It just feels like fat people are an easy target. I must say, i never realized how hard it was when I was younger. Before I gained weight.

as far as labeling someone as fat... or ugly... I think ugly behavior just enhances the other things. And rush is one ugly son of a b.

[Buzz Clik]

19. Ha. Another self-loathing pudge bucket.

;)

[Philosoraptor]

20. Good one.

[ogneopasno]

21. It's good that YOU don't hate people -- but if other people say they're being discriminated against,

wouldn't it also be a good thing to listen to them?

[Philosoraptor]

22. Discrimination against anyone is wrong.

And it does happen, for all sorts of reasons.

[Subdivisions]

23. I'm overweight. Some would say I'm fat. Fat jokes

don't bother me in the least. But, for some, it's a very sensitive issue.

[madinmaryland]

24. This toon was in the thread right below yours..

Just thought it sequed perfectly into yours.

[distantearlywarning]

25. I used to be skinny. Then I developed hypothyroidism.

Trust me as someone who's been on both sides of the fence - there's a huge difference in how other people treat you.

Fat is extremely stigmatized in this culture right now, and that's what makes it "not funny".

For instance, I'm a natural blonde. Blonde jokes don't bother me in the slightest, because in a lot of ways blondes are a valuable commodity. Or at least a neutral commodity. I know that there's a mild stereotype about blondes being dumb, and that's where the jokes come from, but in the real world people don't actually assume I'm stupid because of the color of my hair. At least not that I can tell. So hearing a blonde joke doesn't make me feel bad - it doesn't remind me of all the contempt strangers have for me because of something natural about me, because they don't actually have contempt for me, or they don't express it. And I think it's a good analogy to weight, because although I am biologically predisposed to being blonde, I could change my hair color if I wanted to work at it and spend money every month getting touch-ups, special color shampoo and so forth. In fact, it would be less work and money to become a brunette than it would to get skinny again.

If I were simply "thin-skinned", wouldn't I get furiously upset about blonde jokes too? But I don't. Blonde jokes make me laugh. They have little emotional meaning for me because I don't think they represent real sentiment on the part of my culture, even if they are insulting with regard to something inherent to me as a person.

For the same reason, I don't think the "Pole-Wop" joke above is a good analogy either. Maybe it would have been 80 years ago, when European immigrants were still highly stigmatized. But times have changed, and nobody under the age of 80 really viscerally understands the original negative connotations of the word "wop". It just doesn't have an emotional punch in the gut anymore like it did many years ago. I'm part Polish, too, by the way. Jokes about Pollocks affect me even less than blonde jokes. Like, eh, who cares. Nobody *really* thinks Poles are ignorant anymore except for maybe some of the hard-core racists. Certainly it's not a marker of stigmatization across the culture as a whole.

But trust me, words like "fatty", or "lard-ass" or "lazy fat pig", or constantly using someone's weight as a measure of their character (as though Rush Limbaugh's problems are so inextricably tied to his weight that it isn't even possible to talk about them without bringing up the size of his ass) ARE hurtful. They make me feel sad, ashamed, and alienated from other people around me. When people say stuff like that out loud it makes me wonder if everyone else is thinking them inside their heads. I wonder if I am getting passed over for employment opportunities because of my weight, because that's what employers believe. I wonder if the bus driver or the clerk or the waiter is just having a bad day or if he's brusque and unfriendly because he thinks I am not quite a human being. It makes it hard to connect with other people and to trust them. And it makes me not like them much, because I remember how different things were when I was skinny - so I think "God, what a bunch of shallow asshats!" And that's not nice or healthy either. And nothing about this dynamic encourages good-will and progress between human beings in this culture, you know what I mean? Especially since 2/3 of the population is overweight or obese.

Just some food for thought: if we were talking about me being black and being offended by the "N" word, or upset because people treat white people better in the workplace, or the fact that people couldn't talk about the failings of Michael Steele without discussing his race in extremely contemptous terms, would your first reaction be to ask all the black people on DU why they were "too thin-skinned"? If someone cited research showing that white people get jobs more easily than black people and make more money at those jobs, would an acceptable response be something along the lines of "oh well, that's the way the world has always been, people just like light skinned people more...the darkies just have to work harder, that's all!"

ON EDIT: I also wanted to say that the fat stuff is the only stuff I've ever read in my 5 years on DU that really, truly hurts my feelings and makes me feel like shit as a person and makes me feel alienated from my fellow progressives. And if you've been here any length of time you know that you need a pretty fireproof skin to engage in discussions about pretty much anything here. Having survived 1000 flamewars in my time here with my emotional center intact, I have to assume that my feelings about the fat jokes are not simply a matter of being generally "thin-skinned".

[Bunny]

35. Thanks for your post. I totally agree with everything you wrote.

Especially when people who should be your allies are so purposely, gleefully, cruel. For some reason, fat people seem to really irritate certain folks. I assume it relates to some deep insecurity, and the need to feel superior to someone, anyone. Maybe it's the grown-up version of picking on the fat kid, or the retarded kid, or whatever.

[distantearlywarning]

37. It's definitely the grown-up version of picking on the fat kid

Fat is one of the last acceptable personal traits to denigrate or feel superior to someone about. That and homosexuality. And I think, as a completely straight person myself, that DU also has way too much homophobic bullshit too for a so-called progressive site. I've seen threads about gay people just like this one - like the responsibility for bias against homosexuals in our culture should be on the "thin-skinned" and "overly sensitive" gay people - they should just get over it, or not be so gay in public or wait in the back of the bus a while longer or whatever.

It's all ego-inflating BS on the part of the people who've never experienced stigma. Discrimination is never right, even with regard to so-called "lifestyle choices".

[KittyWampus]

52. It's Pecking Order Behavior. Find the weak individual and peck it to death.

[laundry_queen]

42. I wish I could recommend a single post.

This would be it. I was once 'normal' too and now am fat. World of difference. I agree with everything you wrote. Thank you.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

53. Did you

crawl inside my head and write my story?

Wow.

I too am blonde, used to be very thin and I developed a inoperable tumor on my pituitary gland. I am now quite overweight. I do not eat more than I ever did but I can not keep weight off -

I am treated quite differently now than when I wore a size 6. I am not happy about this.

No matter how I have worded my feelings here on this site about how painful it is to read things like "big fat piece of shit" I am told it isn't any big deal because it is a description - It is a description which is nasty and mean and fat is equated with being evil and stupid.

If I were to write an OP about a gay person and use the words "stupid f----t" or "dumb-assed flaming-f---y" to describe the person I would be TOMBSTONED - and rightfully so. But here it is acceptable to equate being fat with being stupid and evil. I do not allow my children to talk meanly about people because of their body type or sexual orientation or the color of their skin. It just isn't the kind thing to do.

I was flamed like crazy when I wrote an op a couple of days ago saying it isn't okay to call Rush a fat __________(fill in the blank) - Some people were nice but a lot of people were, as I expected, totally vicious. The crowd of "But he is a big fat piece of shit" tripped over themselves to tell me all about how I should just learn to accept this as a normal way of describing the loathsome ass. They just do not get it at all. For some reason it is a character flaw to be fat and character flaws are in need of being pointed out. Well, it is not a character flaw all of the time. Sometimes it is unavoidable.

[hlthe2b]

54. re:

You tell 'em. I thank you for speaking out. :toast:

[datasuspect]

28. thin-skinned, but thick layers of subcutaneous fat.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

36. DAMN! I'm owing you material to add to such layers, ain't I?

I completely forgot.

[Stevenmarc]

32. If Rush was skinny he wouldn't be a disgusting pig

he would be a disgusting weasel, you really do have to maintain proper animal imagery to make an insult work.

[pipi_k]

33. I've been skinny and I've been blonde and I've been young, and

now I'm old(er), not blonde, and a bit overweight.

I don't know if I could be called "fat" exactly, but I do know that I often feel fat. Except when I'm around someone who weighs more than I do.

Anyway, I see some overweight women who are perfectly comfortable with themselves and their bodies and I envy them. I really do. Queen Latifah, for example...can you get any more gorgeous than that? Her confidence shows through.

Me...I feel like Mrs Moby Dick.

Yet when I was skinny, I still didn't feel all that good about myself. "Fat people" get called names....skinny people do, too.

Women with blonde hair do. As a thin blonde, I was often perceived as being, well, stupid. Or, at the very least, a bit of an airhead. I don't know...maybe I acted like one because I thought it was expected of me? Whatever. I'll never be thin and blonde (and 25) again.

anyway, I wanted to say something in response to someone who said that thin people are often treated better. Maybe they are, but here's something strange I started to notice as I got older and started putting on weight.

Almost as soon as I got to the point where people started calling me "Ma'am" instead of "Miss", I got treated better. By the women, anyway.

I don't know if anyone else has ever experienced the nastiness that can come from other women when you are (I'm presuming) young and attractive. It's almost like....resentment or something.

Now I'm older and the women are nicer to me. Don't get me wrong...I'm 56 but people have told me I could still pass for 36 (extremely good skin genes and no excess sun exposure means fewer wrinkles!). But women, in general, are nicer, even though I have a few extra pounds on my frame.

Maybe there's a "boundary line" on how much goodwill people are willing to extend toward the overweight?

Anyway, even though I'm not, like, morbidly obese or anything, I do still feel sort of awkward when I go out to eat...Like maybe people are judging each and every mouthful of food or looking at my plate to see what the hell I'm shoving down my gullet. The funny part (if you can call it funny) is that Mr Pip usually finishes all his plate and is still not overweight. I end up not being able to finish and take mine home and get one or two more meals out of the leftovers the next day. And I'm overweight.

sigh...

go figure...

:shrug:

[MineralMan]

34. My mother taught me that jokes about people's

visible personal attributes are never proper.

[cherokeeprogressive]

38. "I find it sort of silly... that some ___ people seem to think they are an oppressed minority"

Insert your favorite racial, ethnic, or gender epithet here.

You didn't really use all those words just to justify saying mush limpballs is fat, did you?

[distantearlywarning]

40. Yeah, I don't get that either.

Rush Limpballs IS fat.

But what does that have to do with all the things that make him a moron and an asshole???? :shrug:

Michael Steele is African-American. Why didn't we have entire threads about his actions entitled, "Michael Steele is a darkie N***** coon idiot"?

I think it's because it's "ok" to talk about people's weight in a negative way, and imply that that's somehow relevant to character defects, but not "ok" to talk about race anymore.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

39. Sure...

it's fine to be the schoolyard bully and make the fat kid feel like shit. Oy vey. :eyes:

[tonysam]

43. No, It's Just That Many Think It Is Okay

to be a bigot just because somebody is a certain body size.

I can't stand Rush, and it's his ideas that are ugly. His body size has nothing to do with the ugliness that's within. Same with Ann Coulter, regardless of her appearance.

There is something fundamentally sick about a society which determines worth by how one looks. This bigotry marginalizes the so-called "obese," the old, the "ugly," and the just plain "average" people.

I hate, hate, hate the anorexic mentality in all its forms.

[Carni]

44. I agree

Limbaugh is a fat, sweaty foul little man.

When Limbaugh thinned down he was a fat headed, sweaty, foul little man who had lost weight.

He is repugnant and thin OR hefty he physically resembles a pig IMO.

[Lex]

45. Yes! And black people and gay people too! Why can't they just take a joke?

nt

[Missy Vixen]

50. Lex, thank you

:hug: :hug: :hug:

[LanternWaste]

49. I don't think people are too thin skinned...

I don't think people are too thin skinned, merely that too many other people are simply vulgar.

And the vulgar have few, if any boundaries.