Confessions of an abused woman...

[cynatnite]

I spent almost two years married to the bastard and on average of once a week I was hit, kicked, thrown and abused in other ways that I don't care to mention.

If you met me today, you wouldn't comprehend how a person like me could spend two years with someone like that. I'm a veteran and a college graduate. Today, you would see a strong independent woman who isn't afraid to go toe-to-toe with any man who dared put a hand on her.

But, the woman I was all those years ago no longer exists. Back then, I was afraid. I was afraid of him, afraid of being a failure and afraid of what people would think of me if they knew he beat me. I blamed myself and thought I deserved every bruise and bloody nose. Even throughout my pregnancy he continued to physically abuse me and I believed every word he told me.

Only one thing got me to leave him. After I had my baby, he spanked her at 4 months old.

I got the hell out then.

I don't blame any woman for staying with the one who abuses her. I just hope she can escape before the worst happens.

on edit: This is in response to this thread...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5198158&mesg_id=5198158

[Blue_In_AK]

1. I've been there, too, Cynatnite,

and I agree, it's never so simple as it looks to those on the outside.

I never blamed myself for what he was doing to me -- I always knew it was his self-esteem problem, not mine. If anything I understood too well why he was the way he was, and therefore I was able to forgive far more than I should have. I'm so glad I was able to leave that situation after almost 20 years.

[Captain Hilts]

2. Stunning ignorance in that thread. And these are 'progressives'. nt

[angstlessk]

3. you are quite brave to admit abuse..most women don't...I am one.

[Warpy]

4. Congratulations on getting out, but there's one other component

besides fear that keeps people in that kind of hell: hope. After each beating, the classical pattern is for the batterer to be all contrite and adopt courtship behavior as s/he tries to woo the partner's trust back.

I think that women, especially, develop an addictive process to the honeymoon part of the battering cycle. It explains her ambivalence when the cat is out of the bag and all her friends are telling her to get out NOW.

Women who don't have a partner who goes through that phase but who is a consistent bastard once she gets pregnant (when it usually starts, the guy is trapped, you see) often find it a little easier to leave.

Whatever that man's pattern was, I'm glad you and your child escaped alive and whole. It takes your gut a little time to catch up with your head so that you know with your whole being that none of it was your fault, but it does eventually happen.

If any man ever raises his hand to you, remind him he's got to sleep some time. That advice also goes for the guys who are stuck with batterers. They're fewer than we are, but they're certainly out there and suffering.

[cynatnite]

6. Yep, he played all nice and sweet afterwards...

promised to never do it again. Said he was sorry and all that.

I believed him every time, too.

[Blue_In_AK]

7. That was my ex's classic pattern absolutely.

And he never laid a finger on the kids.

[uppityperson]

62. Hope indeed. I don't see it as addicted to the honeymoon part, but as having great hope

being able to see the good in the batterer, when he is being nice.

And yes, I have been there also.

[musette_sf]

5. k&r

:hug:

[CoffeeCat]

8. As a child who grew up in an abusive home...

...I want to tell you that you are my hero.

You are amazing. What you did for that child is nothing short of saving her life.

I'm sorry that you endured what you did. That must have been so suffocating and painful. More
importantly--you rose up. You saved yourself and your child.

My mother didn't leave. I was abused until I left the house, and even after I left the emotional
and psychological damaged that was heaped on--was almost as bad as the initial abuse.

Please don't ever forget that you are an angel. You are a wonderful mother and a strong
person, and I am so proud of you--for being so brave and for saving the life of a child.

:hug;

[tnlefty]

67. !

:hug:

[rvablue]

9. Thanks for your beautiful and courageous post!

OH. MY. Spanking a 4-month-old???......words escape me....that is except to say that baby is very blessed to have a mom like you!

Sorry for all you went through. Kudos to you for the person you became. And thanks for opening up and sharing this story...some of the comment re:Rihanna are repulsive, indeed!

[Froward69]

10. I seriously do not understand

Why it takes a child, to convince women to leave their abusers. Why is it they cannot save themselves? Lastly why do women pass up nice guys like me to be with those abusers in the first place?

I would like to have a family (of my own) not an inherited one, where I have to deal with the Biologic father. That in itself erodes the love/respect I had for her Before she left me for him. now that she is coming around again. If she did not have that child and thus was able to be totally free from the abuser. It then makes it easier for our relationship to flourish.

(I have a similar current situation)

I guess abuse is like drug addiction or alcoholism. one has to reach rock bottom before one seeks a way out.

[ogneopasno]

11. "Nice guys like me." If you had listened to what people are telling you, you wouldn't have to

self-identify like that.

[Froward69]

14. really

I am at a loss to explain how I have NEVER struck any woman in anger... NEVER.

[ogneopasno]

17. Is that all it takes to be a nice guy? Huh.

[Froward69]

22. NO aparently

Bossing her around is sexy?

"Nice Guys" =
Love
Trust
complement
& encourage

my bra burning Mother would turn in her grave, if I acted otherwise.



:eyes:

[ogneopasno]

24. When I hear guys say "but I'm a nice guy!" I hear a five-year-old whining for a medal because he got

up in the morning and put his shoes on the right feet. The universe doesn't owe anyone a girlfriend.

I'm coming down hard on you because I've fought this battle in other places and old feelings are rising up. For that I apologize.

Did your mom actually burn her bra?

[dustbunnie]

36. It's no different than women self-identifying the same way -

there are "nice" guys and women populating the world along with the assholes. The word "nice" implies a whole package, including decency, kindness, loyalty, etc. These traits can be found in both sexes.

[Froward69]

84. yes she did burn her bra...

I realize no one is "Owed " a Girlfriend. it is just frustrating as to Now at 39 I have lots of exes calling, telling me they made a mistake with the guy they now are divorcing... (Abuser, he is out of money, never loved me like you did ETC.) All the reasons given simply deteriorate my willingness to renew each relationship, as my respect for them is gone.

raising another mans Kids does not appeal to me in the slightest. I am not Joseph and those kids are not Christ like.

[freeplessinseattle]

90. yes, what a catch you seem to be n/t

[Fleshdancer]

13. I think the best thing to do...

is to stop searching for logic in an illogical situation. Abusers tear their victims down in a way that's comparable to brain washing. I don't think anyone who has never experienced it can truly understand it, but reading up on the syndrome can help shed some light. Unfortunately reaching rock bottom doesn't always work and the victims pay with their life.

[Froward69]

16. Thats just it

it is saving a child that snaps the mindset. not self preservation. I just do not get it.

[Fleshdancer]

20. not always....

However, for the situations that you're talking about (and what the OP described), it's understandable. Sometimes the unconditional love of a child helps put the situation in perspective. A woman can think she's deserving of the abuse, but rarely will she think her 4 mos old baby is.

[Froward69]

23. of course

I guess I (as a male) cannot grasp how self preservation can take a back burner.

[Fleshdancer]

29. that's because you're searching for logic in an illogical situation

;)

The battered woman syndrome is extremely messy from a psychological perspective. Abusers lay the groundwork long before the actual hitting begins...it's predatory, aggressive, and extremely controlling due to the insane levels of minipulation and fear inflicted on the victim.

[Froward69]

31. I have never abused

and never will. so I cannot fathom how or why.

[Fleshdancer]

34. I'm very glad to hear this

I can't fathom why anyone would want to hurt people this way either.

[tnlefty]

61. While I'm familiar with battered women's syndrome, I also

understand your confusion.

Perhaps I should have seen warning signs, but I married a batterer. After we were married and moved to FL, I learned that his dad beat his mother and if he and/or his siblings objected then his dad would do things like take their toys and make a bonfire and burn their favorite toys. He was devoted to a young niece and everything seemed okay.

The first time that he hit me I thought that it was a fluke, and we had moved to TX by this time, and I thought it was going to be okay. Then it happened again, and again. I had just landed a job with an accountant, when I packed up and left. He left in the morning and I packed everything that I could fit into the car and my dog, went by the bank and left.

I freaked out the first time that I saw his mother with her face bruised. Self preservation kicked in for me and I was not going to spend my life being someone's punching bag.

I know that every woman's situation is unique, and I've known women whose batterers stated flat out that he would kill them if they ever tried to leave...I'm just trying to express the differences in situations and how you might be confused.

[mentalsolstice]

86. Actually, sometimes self-preservation is the reason for staying

However, since you're a male, I can't expect you to understand that. Often the first 72 hours after a woman leaves is the most dangerous time of all for her and her children.

Since you don't understand it and you seem to have personal issues with someone who is going through it, my advice is to stay away from her, and stay out of discussions like this. Simply sit back, read and learn.

[omega minimo]

25. one post mentioned brainwashing and another thing abusers do is isolate their victim, physically and

psychologically shut out others who would provide perspective and assistance.

If you ever find yourself near that situation, may you find simple ways to help and be the lifeline to someone drowning in intimidation.

[Karenina]

21. You express the attitude

that feeds less than "all there" women to abuse, or allow others to abuse their children. National Geographic has films about what lions do to cubs they have not fathered. Some humans seem to have not progressed beyond that. It's truly sad...

[Froward69]

26. I would like

to unconditionally Love my own children.

To think Humans are somehow superior to other species is naive.

Dolphins rape, sharks orgy and Lions eat their cubs.

[Karenina]

37. I should hope that ANY woman with children AVOIDS YOU

LIKE THE PLAGUE.

[musette_sf]

42. agreed

I would like to have a family (of my own) not an inherited one

translation: if i don't own them, i can't love them.

:puke:

did i happen to mention I Hate The Patriarchy?

[Maru Kitteh]

45. No shit, great additude for a guy who's labeled himself "nice" eh?

What a piece of work.

[musette_sf]

47. indeed

i notice RESPECT did not make the "nice guy" list of supposed characteristics:

"Nice Guys" =
Love
Trust
complement
& encourage

if RESPECT isn't #1 on a man's list on how to interact with women, RUN AWAY as fast as you can.

[Froward69]

85. Looky there you certainly do not

RESPECT my feelings on the matter...

respect to other Humans, regardless of relationship staus or gender is standard with me... Sad It is rarely returned.

[Scout]

113. then why didn't you list respect as your first "characteristic" ? n/t

[dustbunnie]

46. Lots of people aren't interested in coming into a ready made family.

I never understand this "us versus them" mentality and it must be terrible attempting to have decent relationships with men when you shove them all under the big hate tent.

The fact is, that many people are not equipped to handle the myriad of issues that arise when children from a previous relationship come into a new one. There are jealousies and resentments that require a lot of patience from both the biological parent as well as the newcomer. Did you not read the story of the boy who shot his pregnant step-mother in the head recently? Often, the continued presence of exes can cause strife and stress on a relationship, especially if the ex is vengeful, there is a financial interest, or there is sufficient animosity for him/her to find it worthwhile to create problems between two people. Exes often don't want their children anywhere near the new person so that can be a constant strain. Lots of people just aren't interested in complicated relationships and it has nothing to do with the :puke: patriarchy. Lots of women are underwhelmed by the idea as well.

[musette_sf]

50. i am one of them.

however, my reason is because i didn't, don't, and never want children at all.

if i ever thought i was the kind of person to have children, in my conscience i could not say "my own" were more potentially worthy of love than a partner's children, or adopted children, for that matter.

the whole point of raising children is the children, regardless of who was the sperm and/or egg donor.

personally i think people who spend tons of money and incur tons of heartbreak doing the fertility clinic bit, are somewhat narcissistic and miss the whole point of what parenthood is.

and as for the rest of your post, life isn't easy. your own biological kid can turn out like Damien and ensure just as much stress etc, if not more, than the nightmare non-bio-parent scenarios you describe.

on edit: and i do not agree that the patriarchy has nothing to do with all this. it's all about OWNERSHIP. OWNERSHIP is why bio-dad and bio-mom do crazy things that are ultimately injurious to the children.

[dustbunnie]

55. Well, that's another reason why some people avoid such relationships.

There are people who just don't want children. There's room for all of us in the world, and someone who will love us and be our match. :)

My observations are based only on what I've personally witnessed as it seems I know a lot of divorced-with-children types. Pretty much all of my clients are in that position and they all range in the late 30s to mid 40s age spectrum. I've witnessed some tear-filled ugliness, and have sat through many, many lunches listening to the stresses and tribulations that both the new and old spouses experience. I wear the sympathy hat for both sides, depending on which side of the relationship the lunch companion is on. :) A lot of it is about money, but also pretty base emotions. So I don't see ownership as always being the primary factor. Children can be quite manipulative as well if so inclined, and their impetus is not ownership. Many exes wouldn't want to spend five minutes under the same roof as their former spouse, but the hate and rage runs deep enough that they'll do anything to keep him/her from being with another.

[uppityperson]

93. But most of them don't equate that with being in an abusive relationship.

"willingness to accept abuse to maintain any relationship, because of low self esteem. Is the same as willingness to accept Other peoples children to have a relationship at all. As that in itself is the result of low self esteem."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5200307&mesg_id=5203759

[kiranon]

111. You're right and it is sad that people walk away from difficult situations

and the children lose no matter what. When I was a young widow with 2 children, all I saw was the dust in the distance when I mentioned to a potential date or date that I had children. Better off without them I said and I finally found someone who would love my children - complications and all. Most never did find someone. And, when my son was grown up he said that he wouldn't marry anyone or date anyone with children - it was too complicated. It broke my heart.

[uppityperson]

64. Could you unconditionally love children who did not bear your genes?

[cynatnite]

41. Well, my ex-husband was a nice guy...

I sure as hell wouldn't have married the guy if he had beaten me on our first date. The warning signs were there, but I was naive and my self-esteem was through the floor. There was an onslaught of verbal abuse that began not long after we married and it led to the first slap barely four months into the marriage.

Not only that, in those days there was little recourse for women unless they lived in a large enough city that had other alternatives. I never had that.

Please, don't stigmatize women like this.

Oh, and my current husband loved me enough to not care about the baggage I brought to our marriage. That was the daughter he adopted.

[Maru Kitteh]

44. So you don't hit women. Good for you. I don't rob banks.

"Nice Guys" don't give women the bullshit message "I WOULD love you if only you didn't have that damn kid." I can understand why you are lonely. Please don't fool yourself into believing you are "nice" just because you don't hit women.

[uppityperson]

66. That was well put. "I WOULD love you if only you didn't have that damn kid."

Doesn't sound very nice to me.

[Froward69]

88. well after growing up in a family

that was the result of multiple fathers, the resentment between parents, between siblings, as well as siblings and parents. caused strife that we as a family deal with still today. (40+ years on) I determined I do not want to relive that strife.

seems to me Women cannot fathom the desire to raise ones own children. As women inherently have their "own" children to begin with. (biologic fact)regardless of whom the father is. granted some familys consist of children that are the Husbands offspring and not the wife's. or the Wifes and not the Husbands kids.

Love is supposed to conquer all. Alas it does not. As of the relationships I have had with Mothers. Have always had the condition of loving her kids as much as she does. that is impossible. as no other loves kids as much as the child's own mother does.

willingness to accept abuse to maintain any relationship, because of low self esteem. Is the same as willingness to accept Other peoples children to have a relationship at all. As that in itself is the result of low self esteem.

I would rather be lonely. Than be in an abusive, codependent or conditional relationship.
been there done that.

[uppityperson]

91. Good grief. I very much pity you and yours. You are not a "nice guy".

Women are also step parents and adoptive parents. Biologic fact

"As women inherently have their "own" children to begin with. " No, many do not. Many raise children who they did not bear. Successfully.

It seems your issue growing up was strife in the family, not who had whose genes. I am sorry that you cannot seem to see that.

Yes, love does conquer all. But this does not mean that simply because you love someone that everything will be nice and easy and pleasant.

"Have always had the condition of loving her kids as much as she does. that is impossible. as no other loves kids as much as the child's own mother does. "

No again. Just because a woman had a child does not mean she loves them. Or that anyone else cannot love them as much.

"willingness to accept abuse to maintain any relationship, because of low self esteem. Is the same as willingness to accept Other peoples children to have a relationship at all. As that in itself is the result of low self esteem."

Good grief. Being willing to accept a child that does not carry your genes=being willing to accept abuse in any relationship?

"I would rather be lonely. Than be in an abusive, codependent or conditional relationship.
been there done that." If you equate being in a relationship with someone who has a child not bearing your genes with being in an abusive relationship, you are better off alone.

You are NOT any sort of nice person. I suggest you get some counseling as you seem like a very sad and lonely and confused person.

[Froward69]

107. Yes Dear

everything you say is true and correct. I am not a woman so I am not entitled to any opinion of my own. I could attempt to point out how egregiously you missed the point. yet I would only suffer more abuse for having my own opinion.

that said.

the point I was trying to make is Many many people remain in relationships because they do not have the self esteem to be alone. whether the relationship is healthy or not.
My Bra Burning Mother taught me to "Want" to be in a relationship. not "Have" to be in a relationship.
or
"I need her/him because I love her/him" NOT "I love her/him because I need her/him"

on edit/ your welcome for the icon... as I brought that cartoon to DU's attention the day after the election. (It was in the now gone Rocky Mountain News Nov 5 2008)

[uppityperson]

108. Strawman again and wtf about an icon?

"I am not a woman so I am not entitled to any opinion of my own." Wrong. It is really too bad you take things so totally wrong.

"on edit/ your welcome for the icon." Not sure whom you meant that towards as I didn't comment on your icon. Maybe you are confusing posters. It can be easy to do.

[JerseygirlCT]

110. Well put.

And frankly, any woman who would accept that message, and turn from her child for a man? I'd think far less of her. Her child is part of her - maybe the most important part of her. Separate them, and you're asking for half of her. That doesn't work.

And what kind of "nice guy" cannot love a child he hasn't biologically fathered? Really? You hand me a child right now, and I'll find a way to love him or her - right away. Being a father is about much more than being a sperm donor.

[omega minimo]

49. empathy

[Triana]

51. "abuse is like drug addiction or alcoholism. one has to reach rock bottom before one seeks a way out

There's a lot of truth to this. Often, it's referred to as "love addiction". I don't say that's THE cause - because it isn't - not by itself - there are other factors - but the symptoms are similar - as you say - things seemingly have to get really bad before the victim realizes (s)he has to give up the dream - the dreamy illusion of the wonderful person they *thought* they found - that charming person their abusive partner was in the very beginning. That charmer doesn't exist though - it's a facade. The real person is the abuser - and it takes a lot of abuse and a long time sometimes to realize that - to give up trying - to give up the dream and the hope - to finally hit 'bottom' and realize that it HAS to stop.

Sometimes, that's when the abuser targets a child or a pet, sometimes it's before that. Each victim of abuse has his/her own personal "bottom" they have to reach before they realize they must escape.

In that regard, it is very much like addiction.

[Best_man23]

52. Hey Nice Guy

"Lastly why do women pass up nice guys like me to be with those abusers in the first place? "

Got a book and a website for you.

http://www.nomoremrniceguy.com

Helped me a LOT. Don't mind that it been reviewed by Billo the Clown.

[Brooklyns_Finest]

57. Single Moms

You know what? When I was younger, I swore that I would never date a woman with kids. Now that I am 31, that really is not that big a deal to me anymore. I think as we age we think differently. I don't know if I want kids of my own, so it might kill two birds with one stone.

[uppityperson]

63. He was sweet, fun, very nice. We did a lot of things together. Gradually I turned away from my other

friends, doing more and more with just him. Gradually my other friends quit calling. Then, after becoming dependent upon him, the abuse started.

He WAS a nice guy, for quite a while. Then I was isolated, and the nastiness, the put downs began. My friends were dumb, stupid, ugly, and I was alone.

Telling my parents what was going on was my escape. After I told them, I could not go back to him. It was devastating for my folks, but a lifesaver for me. Thank you Mom and Dad, for being there. For listening. For helping me refind myself.

[defendandprotect]

68. Our society hasn't been open or instructive about this issue with females . . .

it should be taught in our schools -- especially with the interests of

females highlighted and ways to identify likely abusers and if you find

yourself married to one what you could be thinking and how to escape the

abuser. Even in matters of females being taken advantage of in "dating"...

which can lead to being pressured into sexual activity the female may not

want but where she doesn't the words don't come easily to her to explain how

she's feeling, or the courage, or the overview of the situation . . .

I think training and acting out like this in schools can be helpful for both

individuals in any relationship. GOP/right win protested this kind of education

in schools.

[crikkett]

82. please, please oh PLEASE don't use the word 'females.' We're women.

My GOD man, you use 'female' FOUR TIMES in as many sentences.

We're not dogs or cows. we're not of another species. We're women. Clue in, please.

Every time I see the use of 'females' I want to barf.

One way to attract a good woman: show respect.

[sweetpotato]

80. Some women come from abusive homes

To them, the abuse reminds them of the "love" they got as a child. Its familiar. You know how to respond to the familiar.

My XH was verbally and emotionally abusive. Just like my family was when I was a child.

It took me some time to figure out what love was supposed to feel like.

At least, that's how it was for me.

Sorry you don't get it.

[crikkett]

81. Honestly it doesn't sound like you should be in a relationship w/ her

seeing that you've written down the fact that you don't respect her.

Good luck to you and I hope you find someone to be healthy with.

[Scout]

112. I seriously do not understand

why men beat, batter and abuse women, and get away with it.

I seriously do not understand how people can be so dense not to see that an abused woman shouldn't have to move out of her home, quit her job, and run for her life ... when she has done nothing wrong.

:eyes:

[ogneopasno]

12. Thanks for your bravery with this post. No one can understand unless they've been there.

[Juche]

15. People can change

Ten years ago I was in the midst of severe mental illness with very hurtful delusions. Now the insecurity and self hatred that plagued me when I was sick are almost totally gone. I do relate to the experience of going from being full of fear (fear of others finding out) to being comfortable with yourself.

It is amazing to see how much a person can change in as little as a decade.

[lunatica]

18. I've been there too

At first I believed him when he groveled and swore he would never hurt me again, but when it continued he got mean and threatened my life and my familys' lives. He waved a gun around once, so there was just enough doubt in me that I couldn't take the chance. Like you I found the strength to leave when my son was less than two years old. He did try to hit him once and I pushed him hard enough that I think I scared him a little. Of course he beat me worse than ever right then, but he never touched my son again.

And like you no one would ever believe that I could have been in a situation like that because I'm strong. I never did take the blame though. Not even a little. I only stayed with him out of fear for my family.

[Tab]

19. Good for getting out, but this is more common than most people think

(the abuse part, I mean, not the getting out part)

The woman I was married to was psychologically unstable. There was no physical abuse (until the end when she threatened our child) but it was a psychological hell. I had a hard time figuring out how to get out and get custody and keep her from going berserk, because she was threatening a "scorched earth" policy. I pulled it off, but it was messy at the time.

Unfortunately, though, more often the man is the culprit. There are two things in play (aside from any medical issues the abuser might have - that's another story), but if they grew up in an abusive home, they're likely to be abusive themselves. That's what they learned.

On the corollary, I know a lot of women who got out of abusive situations, but often THEY grew up in an abusive home too. Now that doesn't mean they're abusive, not usually, but what happens is that abuse is FAMILIAR. And some actually end up pairing with abusers or staying with abusers because it's a familiar situation. I'm not justifying it, but I am saying that this seems to be the dynamic in play. And, although you seem to have escaped with your self-esteem intact, I've also heard from a lot of women who eventually find a nice guy but end up very insecure in THAT relationship because they're always waiting for the other shoe to drop, since it's happened their whole lives and in all their relationships and can't quite trust their new one is actually to someone genuinely nice, and it's not unusual for them to go back to their abusive partner. And, of course, you put drugs or alcohol in the mix and it's even worse.

Some women feel "safe" with strong and controlling men, but that's exact recipe for abuse, and it creeps up so slowly you don't really know it's happening until it's too late and, to make it worse, the controlling partner (control freak, I mean) also works on undermining the woman's self esteem "you'll never find anyone who will love you except for me" to where she believes it, and that perpetuates the cycle, and as resentments build, it gets worse over time, and it's easy to ignore red flags, particularly with someone you're attracted to, until it's too late. Or, they might feel bad for their partner's sad tale of growing up in an abusive home (or maybe for their parents, if the woman came from one) and want to try to "fix" their partner. "If I just love him more...". But that almost never happens.

And I've heard some crazy shit. There's one close (well, it's been years) friend of mine - her husband raped her constantly, beat her, watched her every moment - in the supermarket she had to walk behind him and/or with her eyes down so she couldn't look at other men, and much more than that. She, like you, found the courage to eventually get her daughter and get out, put herself through college and now runs a successful (I think) business of her own.

And I've heard from other women - they had terrible stories - boyfriends/husbands try to put their heads through the car window - one was even a quadraplegic that was abused and hit and all kinds of awful stuff I don't even want to try to remember she talked about.

And some women think they can't survive without their husband or boyfriend, and need him as a provider. It's really hard, particularly if you grew up not learning some marketable skill, to contemplate leaving a house, and sometimes the nicer houses have the worse abuse, but they'll be damned if they admit it to their neighbors or friends, because to everyone else they seem to have "the perfect life, the nice car, the beautiful house", yada yada yada, and the reality is often strikingly different.

So, great for you, and for talking about it. I don't know if anyone can ever stop abuse, but what you CAN do is what you're doing - tell others your story and let them know that you CAN get out, you CAN get away. It may not be easy pulling it off, but at some point you have to figure that even living in a homeless shelter has got to beat (not pun intended) the hell out of staying in the marriage. That's the point when you go. Unfortunately a lot of women don't think it's possible to move on, and that's sad.

Thank you for your post.

- Tab

p.s.: And after being acutely conscious of red flags, I chose very carefully my second time around and am now married to a wonderful women. If I learned anything from my first marriage, it was what I did NOT want in a partner. I am so much happier out of that first relationship. Granted, I had some resources to draw upon, so getting out wasn't scary from the point of view of "how will I survive", but I got to where I didn't care what she did in terms of "scorched earth policy" - at that point I just knew I needed out. I don't know if you remarried or whatever but if you are looking for someone I'm pretty sure you also know what red flags to look for too, and you should be happier your second time around too. Best.

[defendandprotect]

69. Like many other issues, female oppression has it's roots . . .

in organized patriarchal religion which underpins patriarchy ---

Religion continues to teach the "inferiority" of women -- and the need for males

to assert themselves over them.

Violence against women was long encouraged by religion ---

and we have too long tolerated male violence. Rarely do you hear anyone speak

of it or suggest that we study it!

[conscious evolution]

79. I tend to think

it is hieriarchal monotheism that that is a root in abuse.
It tends to promote a mindset that somone has to be the top dog and and anyone else is inferior if they are not at the top and therefore deserving of abuse due to their inferiority.

Rascism and bigotry also has roots in hierachal monotheism,also,IMO.

[defendandprotect]

103. Yes . . . agree --

[omega minimo]

27. very brave, cynatnite, these may seem trite but words won't do.....

:cry: :hug:

[Froward69]

28. 10th rec

Good for you for saving your child from the situation.

[cali]

30. I was the last person anyone who knew thought would ever be in an abusive relationship

He was the last person anyone thought would be abusive- well except for his mother. He spit on me. He hit me- though not as frequently as weekly. He flew into uncontrollable rages and said horrific things. He went to a prostitute when I was four months pregnant, and just released from the hospital for heavy spotting. He had unprotected sex and told me about it in the car on the way to visit my parents- who adored him.

I divorced him after 4 years.

Here's the strange part. He's now one of my best friends. And boy, the the divorce we went through was ugly. But one thing was a constant: We both loved our son to pieces. And for his sake we went through two years of family counseling after the divorce and mediation. It took time, but now some 18 years later, we've been good friends for close to 16 years.

[omega minimo]

48. thank you for sharing your story with us cali

:hi:

[democrank]

32. Been there.

Never again.

[tpsbmam]

33. I'm horrified by the other thread you linked to and very grateful for your

honest, courageous post. It's amazing to me that we have to begin with a very basic education about this issue with smart progressives, much less with the rest of the population. K&R

[sufrommich]

35. cynatnite, my heart goes out to you.

I hope you celebrate your courage every day.

[H2O Man]

38. I'm glad

that you left. I wish that no one had to go though that type of thing. And I thank you for posting this, especially in response to the toxic OP you provide a link to.

Your friend,
Pat

[yellerpup]

39. Thanks for your honesty.

Your daughter will have a much better life because her mother saved her from a life of either abuse or observing abuse and having it minimized. You could have easily set her up for heartbreak or tragedy. My heart goes out to you for your past pain and swells with admiration for your devotion to your child. Stay safe. :hug:

[readmoreoften]

40. I'm really sorry. I'm glad you were able to get out. I would NEVER blame you. AWFUL!

:hug: :hug: :hug:

[Number23]

43. "I just hope she can escape before the worst happens."

Nothing else needs to be said beyond this, really...

[leftyclimber]

53. Thank you for this, sister.

I have been there, too.

:hug:

- lefty "free for six years now" climber

[kath]

54. In memory of my sister-in-law, to whom "the worst" happened.

Shot to death by her abusive ex-spouse in front of their two young children.

[leftyclimber]

58. Oh, kath.

I wish I knew the right thing to say.

:hug:

[crikkett]

83. oh, no.

:cry:

[Brooklyns_Finest]

56. Tough on the families

I had this discussion with my female coworkers at lunch. I just don't understand why women stay with abusive guys. My sister is in the same boat. She is still with the fool. She actually drove me away from her because she keeps going back to this fool and "loves" him. Everytime he did something to her, she would call me up crying. When I reacted (against him), she got mad at me. Everytime I tried to help her out of the situation, she would back out. When I sent her money, I found out she gave it to him. I just got fed up with her shit and cut her off. I was not about to go to jail (because I was ready to do something real bad to him)for someone who did not want my help.

They are still together. When I talk to my family I refuse to get any updates about her situation. It will just make me mad, frustrated, and sad. What really surprised me is how quickly the fool (sisters husband)spiraled down to a complete bumb. He doesn't work, no education, and is totally useless. In the beginning I actually liked him. I think it was after she had her 3rd kid in 3 years that he totally fell off the deep end. His brother is in jail for grand larceny and other felony charges. Yeah, my sister really knows how to pick quality people. Then again, she has always been the most insecure person I have ever known in my life. I hate to blame the victim, but she has a family who loves her, and willing to help her, yet she continues to stay on the demonic side.

Her situation would occupy my mind constantly, but evenutally I realized that I could not convince her to do the right thing. I just decided to move on. The children situation is what still bothers me. They are nice kids. Unfortunately for them, they have TWO inept parents.

I am actually going home this week for a wedding. I am going to see my family for the first time in 3 years. I am probably going to see my sister. While I don't mind seeing her (well I really want to see the kids), I am afraid I might do something stupid and start a fight with her husband. Lord give me strengh........

[SharonAnn]

59. And I have the situation with a younger sister. Then I learned she was sexually abused

by our brother from the time she was eight. We're ten years apart and I was like a second mother to her when she was little. At eighteen, I went away to college. Our brother started sexually abusing her and she thought there was no longer anyone who would protect her. He told her all sorts of lies about how I knew about it and thought it was OK.

I was almost never around after that, except for short visits. And in a large family where there's lots going on and I'm out of the house with my friends most of the time, I didn't know. i truly had no idea and never saw any sign of it. Of course, I didn't know what to look for and was a young, self-centered teenager and then was working in another city and home even less often.

Powerful family secrets that will absolutely stun you when you find out about them in your 50's.

And, somehow, her long marriage (27 years) to this emotionally abusing jerk with screaming temper tantrums makes some amount of sense. From the time I met him I didn't like him. I was single for a long time and I said that I'd met guys like him in bars. Guys with a line a mile long and only one objective in mind.

And yet, the whole situation breaks my heart. That she never told any of us. That she believed she had to put up with the abuse. That there was something wrong with her! It still breaks my hear just writing about it.

Yes, she's made some bad decisions, but for heaven's sake! When she was a child, we didn't protect her. We didn't protect her.

[Brooklyns_Finest]

65. Yeah

I kind of feel like you. If I was around more, maybe my sister and my brother would hav turned out better. I went to college when I was 17 and also joined the Marine Corps reserves. I was out there living my life. Shortly after I left, both my brother and sister dropped out of school. My sister is in the abusive "relationship" and my brother was struck with depression and bipolar syndrome. He is now getting SSI disability and has to take hardcore meds just to function normally. I have already resigned to taking care of him as my parents get older. I work for SSA myself, and have seen a lot of mentally disabled people. Many of them are on the streets. I will not let that happen to my brother.

My sisters situation is much more complicated. This shit really sucks, but every family has thier issues.

[defendandprotect]

70. ...but too many of those issues have to do with male violence . . .

and our society fails to deal with that violence --

Indeed, male violence is pretty much encouraged.

The right wing especially objects to notions that so many women can have

been raped because they say that means that everyone's son is a rapist!

Consider how many rapes and how many acts of violence and intimidation against

women aren't even reported and how little we still know of it!!

These are sadly familiar stories.

[8 track mind]

60. I've been wanting to post the following for a long time

so please indulge me and let me babble for a bit:

After reading these personal stories on this thread tonight, i am speechless. It's beyond my comprehension to know what it was truly like.

I don't know any other way to say it, so here goes:

If you have just left an abusive relationship, i implore you to PLEASE enroll into a martial arts school, or some form of self defence training as soon as it is feasable.

I have personally seen it turn the lives of abused women completely around. Women who would not make eye contact with you, were transformed into confident vibrant people. Not only will it do wonders for your confidence, it will give you the tools to defend yourself if your abuser (or anyone else for that matter) decides to pay you an unanounced visit. This does happen, and it happens frequently.

I hate to see violence against women, people of color, or our GLBT brothers and sisters. It pains me to read the headlines sometimes and i often wonder if the victim had any self defense training, would the outcome have been different.


Some of you may not agree with me and that's fine. I am simply telling you what i have personally seen with my eyes. I have been in the martial arts for roughly 5 years now and it saved me from a deep dark depression and suicide.

And that's all i have to say.

[Lorien]

71. Good advice

I think that martial arts training helped my mom with her confidence. Her father abused her horribly.

Unfortunately, the one man I fear is a seasoned martial arts instructor. :-(

[omega minimo]

72. with all DU respect

"It pains me to read the headlines sometimes and i often wonder if the victim had any self defense training, would the outcome have been different."

Do you ever wonder about the outcome if the perps had had "Don't Be A Violent Fuckhead" training?

:thumbsup:

[8 track mind]

75. yeah i know, point very well taken n/t

[omega minimo]

76. thank you and i'll state the obvious "it would be a different world"

:toast:

[Karenina]

77. I worked on a hotline in L.A. for a few years...

and noticed a trend whenever sussing out if there was violence in the caller's relationship. The women who reacted violently THE FIRST TIME reported that they were NEVER attacked again. "He started punching me and I WENT OFF. When he got back from the hospital he knew better than to ever try that shit again." :shrug:

[PeaceNikki]

95. It sounds like you're shifting the responsibility of stopping the violence to the victim.

[Karenina]

96. NO, NO, NO! It was just an observation.

I wondered if these anecdotes were displaying the dynamics of "standing up to bullies."

Societies worldwide are permeated by a common patriarchal culture of bullying of which women and children bear the brunt. The level of violence it has now achieved is just staggering.

I so appreciate and support Cynatnite speaking out and inspiring the discussion that has ensued. Women need all the tools available to cope with the issue of violence, particularly since so many of our societies are unsupportive to downright hostile to our basic right to be secure in our persons.

[omega minimo]

98. your comment points to the different situations and reactions, the climates of intimidation

where some are psychologically bullied into being afraid to defend themselves or are physcially restricted from being able to do so.

Others will have the reaction you describe and make it clear.

[PeaceNikki]

92. Thank you for this.

[omega minimo]

97. .

:hug:

[MrsBrady]

102. I think they do need

the "don't be a fuckhead" training.

I think we should have that. I don't think 8-track was implying that it is only for the women to fix.

But clearly there is not much in the way of "don't be a fuckhead", so why not help yourself with training, if you can.
:shrug:

[sandnsea]

73. We should teach it in high school

Every student, especially girls, should be taught the right kind of martial arts course, with whatever that mental toughness is that allows you to know you would kill someone who was attacking you. I think that is perfect advise.

[PeaceNikki]

94. Violence Against Women Is a Men's Issue

http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/blog/2008/06/02/jackson-katz-violence-against-women-is-a-mens-issue

Kats said one underlying problem is that college campuses tend to focus on the prevention of rape and sexual violence. "But the term prevention in not really prevention; rather, it's risk reduction," Katz said. "These programs focus on how women can reduce their chances of being sexually assaulted. I agree that women benefit from these education programs, but let us not mistake this for prevention."

"If a woman has done everything in her power to reduce her risk, then a man who has the proclivity for abuse or need for power will just move on to another woman or target," Katz added. "It's about the guy and his need to assert his power. And it's not just individual men, it's a cultural problem. Our culture is producing violent men, and violence against women has become institutionalized. We need to take a step back and examine the institutionalized polices drafted by men that perpetuate the problem."

[sandnsea]

99. Being a strong woman

is a woman's issue.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

105. Well said.

It is exceedingly rare to see a strong, independent woman with good self esteem in an abusive relationship.

David

[Imagevision]

74. Then these pansy ass guyz try to come back under the guise of "I want to see my child" BS.!!! becaus

they find out they can't make it out in the real world so they need their mommies for a little while longer.
cynatnite> good for you kiddo!

[peacefreak]

78. I consider 3/03 my Independence Day.

16 years ago I walked out of a 22 year abusive marriage. I said "See ya" when he left for work. He had no idea what I had planned. Within minutes my friends came & helped my daughter & me move out.
What took me so long? As long as I thought he was only hurting me, I could take it. I didn't have a job, my family was 300 miles away, my self esteem was nonexistent. I started going to a group for battered women & started to make plans. Bit by bit I got strong enough to do what I had to do to get free.

[omega minimo]

100. Happy Anniversary

to Independence and you and your daughter (and the ex, hopefully he got help)

:toast:

[Generic Other]

87. Thanks for posting this

It is a very significant issue. And a harrowing personal narrative. I appreciate the courage it took you to speak up.

I think the other post was a deliberate attempt to bait rather than debate. Seeing the kind of attitude expressed toward the singer over there...is it any wonder women feel powerless and blame themselves when they find themselves in these situations?

Bottom line: Girls and women are suffering at the hands of their fathers, brothers, and husbands, and people keep making excuses for it.

[SammyWinstonJack]

89. Been there. I endured 8 yrs of physical and mental abuse by a rotten coward.

I won't ever again.

[derby378]

101. My wife was beaten by her first husband

It took a lot of work to get her to sever her lingering emotional ties to the man, even after she left him and the divorce was granted. It's probably best that I never met him face-to-face; I probably would have wiped the floor with him so he'd know what it felt like.

I feel for you. :hug:

[Skittles]

117. you answered the question I was going to ask you

correctly, I might add :)

[bridgit]

104. Agreed & Understood from the pit of my stomach, I didn't see the other thread...

Thanks for posting

[Skittles]

106. if a guy ever hit me

I'd get the nearest baseball bat and beat the crap out of him.....but I've always known this has much to do with how I grew up so I don't put down the gals that are in this situation - I just hope, like you, they find the strength to get of of it

[cali]

109. That's what I always said

I was 32 when I married my 2nd husband. I'd had several relationships before that and I was never in one where there was any abuse.

[tnlefty]

114. Heh, my grandmother told me a tale about 3 yrs. ago that I'll

never forget about her sister. My great aunt was always a pleasure to be around, mild-mannered, contributed to conversations in a very intelligent, civilized manner so I was surprised and dumbfounded to learn:

She had married a batterer who beat her regularly. She called the cops, who were of no help back then, they just told her that if he was in his house there was nothing they could do. :eyes:

He started smacking her around over dinner one night, then punched her in the face, and her 9 yr. old son tried to intervene and he threw him into a wall. My great aunt then picked up a dining room chair and broke it over his head, continued beating him with the chair parts until she couldn't hit him anymore. She drug him out of the house onto a rather busy road in front of their house, called the cops and stated that he wasn't in the house anymore. He had a concussion, cracked and broken ribs, a broken arm bone, and when the cops asked her if she knew how he got those injuries she stated that maybe they'd left him in the road too long and a car had run over him.

Oh well...

[bumblebee1]

115. Wow!!!

How much do you want to make a bet that great uncle NEVER did that again? That is one major league ass kicking. Great uncle deserved every bnit of it.

[Skittles]

116. your grandmother is my kind of gal!

:thumbsup: