If Marijuana Is Legalized, Then Why Not Cocaine? Why Not Heroin?

[Yavin4]

What's the counter argument to that?

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

1. Marijuana is a naturally occuring plant

Cocaine and heroine are manufactured substances. That's one difference.

[Jackpine Radical]

50. Cocaine and heroin are made from plants.

Sorta like hash in the marijuana context.

Heroines are a different story. I think some are made and some are born. Well, actually, they are all born, and I suppose some are easier to make than others.

[damntexdem]

65. Well, bred for potency. As are coca and poppies.

But marijuana is not as dangerous, does not physically addict (although it can and does psychologically habituate).

But there is also the question of the effectiveness of criminalization of all of them.

[Zhade]

117. "But marijuana is not dangerous..."

Fixed your typo.

[TexasProgresive]

90. deleted reposted to op

[dbonds]

2. They are in no way comparable in effects, addiction, or bodily harm.

[movonne]

18. And I would rather have someone under the influence of weed than

alcohol when driving.. (not that I think you should be under any mind altering drug driving) but as far as danger I think alcohol is a lot more dangerous...

[Deja Q]

38. I disagree. People can say "I am not an addict!" and then say how they got caught having their weed

at a friend or relative's home.

Sounds like an addiction to me; no different than any other.

[dbonds]

40. Enjoying something and being addicted are different

The only reason the is the concept of getting caught is because it was declared illegal. The drug is not physically addictive in any way. There are some addictive type personalities that can get addicted to anything though, so it is a possible mental addiction along with many legal activities.

[endarkenment]

46. please research what 'addiction' actually means.

Some substances are medically addictive. Marijuana is not one of them. Heroin, cocaine, alcohol, and tobacco all are. Tobacco, oddly enough given its legal status, is one of the most addictive substances known.

[damntexdem]

68. Alcohol, opiates, and coca physically addict.

There are specific changes in metabolism that make the body crave the drug, react terribly when deprived of the drug once addicted.

Yes, marijuana can psychologically habituate, so that a person wants it and feels s/he can't give it up; but that is far short of physical addiction.

[Threedifferentones]

115. Absolutely weed can be "addictive"

The dispute arises of the meaning of that word. Sweet food, sex, TV, video games, and DU can all be addictive. Hell, as a kid my parents banned TV so I read books all day rather than living in the "real world." I was addicted to fantasy and sci-fi literature. But these are PSYCHOLOGICAL addictions, things we often do to avoid other feelings or responsibilities.

Many drugs such as tobacco are quite PHYSICALLY addictive. I am no doctor, but from what I understand something like heroine produces great changes in the workings of a body's cells. So, when the substance runs its course the body craves it desperately. I have known people physically addicted to various drugs, most commonly tobacco. Many have said that if they go a certain time without imbibing they hurt as though they had not eaten or slept in days. Not only their mood but their well being depends on a drug, and quitting produces one of life's most painful experiences. Weed never approaches that.

The difference between weed and chocolate is that you don't get "caught" eating sweets, though they do harm your body. Most of the harm of weed comes from its legal status. The difference between weed/chocolate and heroine is that if you go on a week long binge of the first two you'll feel a little fuzzy headed and silly afterwards. Abuse heroine for a week straight and the resulting addiction could ruin your life, regardless of whether heroine is legal or not.

So, "no different than any other addiction" is a foolish comment because addictions are not all the same. I'll bet you have one yourself, something you do everyday to feel better, even though in the long run it's just "wasting" time. The fact that my mom gets pissed if she misses Lost is much different than a junkie robbing someone for a fix. After years of daily use, I can tell you that weed is much closer to TV than heroine in that regard.

[Zhade]

118. Um, that's such utter bullshit. You've provided NO evidence that weed is addictive.

That's because you can't, because it isn't.

[joeunderdog]

122. In the case that one parent is/was an alcoholic, it can be physically addictive.

And this is from the typewriter of a man who loved to smoke the stuff in my day. I'm a big fan.

I still think it should be as legal as alcohol. Drugs which are addictive by their chemical nature rather than the genetics of the user, however, are the ones that IMO should still not be legal. Not until we can fund a serious drug education and treatment program for all Americans to have access to.

:hippie:

[Zhade]

144. No. That's still not evidence of it being physically addictive.

That's evidence of a person with an addictive personality (I know it well, I grew up with alcoholic parents) habituating themselves.

That's. Not. Physical. Addiction.

[Politicalboi]

127. I smoke everyday

And the past week I couldn't afford it so I went without it. Getting it tonight though. But it didn't bother me. I didn't have the shakes that you get from alcohol. Pot is more of a state of mind than body. I'm not saying I'm not addicted but the only thing that you might experience is a bad mood.

[tridim]

135. I get a slight bout of restless leg syndrome for one night

No big deal.

[annarbor]

59. Thank you!

Short and to the point-

Ann Arbor

[Schema Thing]

3. patience!

:D

[Xenotime]

150. Agreed. Soon we will have our freedom back.

[blogslut]

4. The counter agument is the level of intoxication

From personal experience, marijuana is far less of an additive drug than cocaine or heroin.

[tridim]

20. Although lots of people will tell you that coke isn't addictive..

and pure heroin is safe.

I always assume the people who say this are coke and/or heroin users. That's certainly their opinion, but it isn't true.

And BTW, cannabis isn't physically addictive at all. Calling something that isn't physically addictive, "less addictive" isn't a very good argument IMO.

[endarkenment]

48. The medical consequences of opiate addiction are not all that bad.

Once you take away the contaminate, dosage, and disease issues associated with the black market, the medical consequences are not all that awful. There are some long term chronic issues, but they are long term, and for the most part addicts could lead relatively normal and productive lives if they were simply treated as humans with a medical problem rather than as criminals.

[damntexdem]

71. Well, this is true of opiates.

Not of cocaine, nor of alcohol -- certainly not of nicotine.

But jailing addicts is clearly not the answer. Treating addicts as humans with a medical problem is far-more effective.

That's why I oppose the criminalization of tobacco. ;-)

[endarkenment]

102. lots of people are addicted to alcohol and lead long and productive

lives, and the same is true for cocaine users, and even tobacco users. Tobacco is the interesting case, as it is pretty clearly the most lethal and probably the most addictive abused drug, and yet it is legal and commonplace. Our policies are not rational. Legalize it, tax it, use some of the tax revenue to offset medical costs and treatment costs, and make treatment available for anyone who needs help living a substance abuse free life.

[Atman]

75. Coke is addictive as long as you have lots of money.

Once you run out, though, rarely do people break into homes and roll old ladies for coke money. More likely, you just buy some coke, do it constantly until it's gone, talk incessantly and believe you've solved all the problems of the world, then feel like shit for a day and get on with your life. One of the stupidest fucking drugs I've ever encountered. But not...since you don't get the nearly instant addiction of heroin or crack. As for pot being addictive...that's crazy talk. It's a lot of things, but it's not addictive. I mean, I've smoked nearly every day for thirty years, and I'm not addicted. And my part-time job as a bagger at the Piggly-Wiggly leaves me plenty of time to keep up with my Star Wars figurine collection.

.

[sniffa]

93. I hear ya'

I've been smoking every day for 17 years and my job as a land surveyor leaves me plenty of time to keep up with my wrestling doll collection and post grad classes.

[Richard D]

99. Lots of people?

I've never heard or seen anyone say cocaine or heroin isn't addictive or is safe. At least in recent history. Can you provide a source or two for your claim?

[tridim]

106. Lots of people I know (or knew) who used cocaine made the claim

Most of them claimed it wasn't addictive.. Usually as they were snorting line after line after line.

I probably should leave it there since I've never had a single grain of coke up my nose.

[Atman]

132. Tell Richard D I'm one of those "lots of people"

I just posted about it, although I was a bit to tongue-in-cheek. Fact is, I was quite serious. Coke isn't "addictive." The money is. If you have no money or your reg'lar source can't get you coke, oh well. You'll say "fuck, I can't score any blow." And you'll get on with your day-to-day. If you have enough money, you'll reach farther to score, but you'll still be okay if you can't.

While I've never done crack or heroin or meth or the like, that's not the way I hear it with those drugs; you're hooked almost as soon as you start. Of course, I may be wrong. I don't have that much experience with serious drugs. But in the eighties, yeah...I probably did my weight in blow. But I moved on. I got bored or I had other financial priorities. But I didn't require rehab, interventions, arrests, detox, anything. I just didn't buy any more coke.

.

[tridim]

134. What do you think about dirt cheap legal cocaine?

[Atman]

139. I think it's a terrible idea.

It should cost too much. It's the only thing that keeps people from doing it.

.

[Richard D]

149. Thanks for the clarification

I thought, wrongly, that you were making a statement based on some research studies.

[sohndrsmith]

78. but tabacco (legal) is one of the most addictive (and lethal) drugs

available... so how does that square with this argument?

[stuntcat]

94. for real

:headbang:

[Zhade]

119. It's not addictive, period.

NT!

[rcrush]

5. Also the government shouldnt be able to tell me what I can put in my body.

They should educate and regulate it.

[ieoeja]

6. I believe both are already legal.

I know that cocaine is used in certain prescriptions. I believe heroin is as well, but could be wrong.

But to answer the spirit of your question, cocaine and heroin are extremely dangerous drugs when used improperly. Marijuana is not.

[readmoreoften]

7. If Camomile Tea is legalized, then why not Cocaine and Heroin?

Camomile tea induces sleep. How is that different from heroin?

[Cleita]

8. They should all be legalized so they can be regulated like tobacco and alcohol.

It's foolish to believe that you can ban substances that people want. It only creates a criminal underground to meet the demand.

[MrSlayer]

9. All drugs should be regulated and controlled.

But let's get pot done first.

[ZombieHorde]

36. Well said Mr. Slayer. nt

[jmowreader]

96. I will disagree with you here

Crack and Meth really do need to be illegal. Marijuana does not.

[GiveMeFreedom]

105. True, end the era of prohibition

All prohibition does is foster the criminal element in our society, both government and private.

[sniffa]

10. And ecstasy

Especially, ecstasy.

I'm in favor.

[rcrush]

12. In combination with cuddle parties!

[sniffa]

35. With binkies and glow sticks

[WorseBeforeBetter]

114. And The Little Blue Pill. (n/t)

[sniffa]

130. Unless you're talking about candy-flipping, I don't agree

Don't need it.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

137. Enh, I guess the combination is *deadly* anyway...

Or so the "just say no" crowd sez.

[ret5hd]

11. So you subscribe to the "slippery slope" fallacy.

But yeah, really...why not? A certain percentage of people will destroy their lives with these substances and prohibition has proven to be worse than useless. Legalize, regulate, and offer help to those that wish to quit.

[pokerfan]

112. That slope isn't very slippery

as all the laws on some drugs are arbitrary. Alcohol and tobacco are ok while those over there are forbidden. Of course, drug laws have always been arbitrary. The first opium laws in this country applied only to smoking the stuff and were intended to harass immigrant laborers while leaving the white people to continue with drinking their opium as per their custom. In this respect, it's not unlike the differences between the penalties for rock vs. powder cocaine.

[killbotfactory]

13. Why not?

Legalize and regulate them according to their addictive properties, level of intoxication, and health risks, just like we do with all other legal drugs, some of which are just as bad as those two. By banning them we lose a large amount of control over how they are used, since the black market fills the demand and the people involved have no interest in following the law.

[GoesTo11]

14. Could treat addiction as an illness

Many coke and heroin addicts would like to get off the drugs, I think. I think most marijuana users who want off just quit without major withdrawal symptoms.

[sohndrsmith]

79. the problem is that a lot of addiction is treated as a crime, and not treated at all...nt

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

15. I support decriminalization for all.

But if you want a counter argument, fine:

Just because caffeine is legal it doesn't mean heroin is legal.

There's no reason you can have some legal drugs (coffee, beer, pot) and still keep others outlawed (heroin, coke.)

[Taverner]

16. Why not alcohol? Oh wait...

[Warpy]

WE'VE GOT TO SAVE OUR BAY BEES!!!

is what the argument generally boils down to. The cultural fiction is that anybody who tries heroin will be hooked on it immediately.

I'm proof that is false.

I never knew who'd try the stuff and have my reaction to it (ho hum) and who would fall in love with it. There was no rhyme or reason to it, no personality predictors. I suspected then and cutting edge research is starting to suggest now that people are predisposed to addiction--it's a matter of brain chemistry, not morality.

I would love to wait until we have a way of identifying people at risk for addictions in the hope of discouraging them from trying the drugs, but the cost of keeping Prohibition II going is just too great. An adequate warning system and/or treatment for addiction is years away.

In any case, one odd statistic I ran across several years ago was that the per capita number of hard core addicts hadn't changed between right now and the early years of the last century, when you could by it over the counter.

I would greatly prefer to see the billions thrown down the military rathole of Prohibition II turned into researching addiction and treating addicts who want to get clean. What we're doing now just isn't working.

It's time to try something else.

[Echo In Light]

17. Baby steps

[rcrush]

19. Prohibition lead to shit like meth and pcp

And mixing household cleaners together into a lightbulb and smoking it.

[liberalmuse]

21. Marijuana is not processed.

You can pluck it out of the ground, dry it and smoke it. It is a relatively mild hallucinogen. Although any activity can become habit-forming with enough repetition, marijuana itself does not have the physically and/or mentally addictive properties that cocaine or heroine does. I'd like to see it decriminalized. If it were legalized, the tobacco companies that hold the rights to sell it once that becomes the case would likely add formaldehyde, rat poison along with addictive substances to it like they do to cigarettes. They'd ruin it. If it were merely decriminalized, then anyone would be able to have a couple plants in their garden without fear of prison.

[Webster Green]

37. How about raw opium?

You can smoke it, make it into tea, or cook it up and shoot it if you prefer the big rush.

Actually, I think it's legal to grow opium poppies if you don't score the pods and harvest the latex. Just let the plants mature, and put everything except the root ball into boiling water and make a tea. Works great! :hippie:

[Political Heretic]

22. Are you fucking serious?

yes, cause all drugs are the same. :eyes:

[Viking12]

23. Different levels of lethal toxicity for one...

There are NO documented cases of a lethal overdose from marijuana.

[Toucano]

141. Lethal toxicity is a good point.

It is a quantifiable property.

Did you know that nutmeg is more lethal than cocaine?

[lob1]

24. You can't overdose on grass. No one has died from using grass.

In a post going around about a month ago, couch potatoes suffer a bigger chance of dying (due to no exercise) than a pot smoker.

[MrMickeysMom]

43. Come to think of it....

Nice dreams....

If you can't fathom what an overdose of heroin or crack, snort, running it in your veins would do... think... heart failure, death or some combination thereof.

Having said this, nothing is good when taken to extremes. There was a time back in the late 70's when I did a reach out free service, I think it was called, "store front" when people would call in and need to talk about stuff like this, much of it included people who indulged too much in drugs and alcohol. I think there were statistics then that revealed when people had lots of weed around, it did NOT gateway to hard drugs significantly.

So, consider that.

[sohndrsmith]

80. A lot of people have died from alcohol and tobacco... so what is the

relevance, then, from a legalization standpoint? Just curious...

I don't think the hypocrisy is yours, I think it belongs to the federal regulations/laws. They make no sense.

[pokerfan]

116. Further, you can OD on alcohol and even die from the withdrawal

Buddy of mine went through alcohol detox a few years ago and spent the first week in the hospital as a precautionary measure.

Yet we provide help for those people rather than putting them in a cage.

[gcomeau]

25. To be blunt...

...I don't care if there is a counterargument. Go ahead and legalize them as long as their use is appropriately regulated so only the fully informed adult morons are using it and suffering the consequences under some kind of controlled conditions.

There is a difference between protecting the public from negligence or outright hostile intent... and protecting individuals from their own willful stupidity. The government should most certainly be doing the former, and just as certainly NOT be wasting time and resources on the latter.

[rcrush]

27. Was your post title pun intended?

lol blunt get it?

[librechik]

26. nobody ever died from smoking too much pot--but, yes, let's legalize them all

You should be able to get subscriptions of coke and heroin if you are an addict, from a public health program. Pot belongs in the less dangerous category, no sales to minors, available over the counter in liquor stores etc.

[lib2DaBone]

28. Marijuana is not an opiate. It's not even in the same class as Cocaine or Heroin.

I could be wrong... but I don't think there ever was any medical proof that MJ was a "gateway" drug.. and leads to anything other than consuming mass quantities of Oreo Cookies.

Putting people in jail for the possesion of a simple weed is absurd.

[Politicalboi]

131. I think the only Gateway link

To Marijuana is that you buy it at a dealers house who could have coke to sell at the same time. If pot were legal we would have less people who did cocaine because they weren't exposed to it at a dealers house. How many times do you go into a liquor store and the man behind the counter whips out a mirror with coke on it and asks you do want to try it? Never happened to me. Keeping it illegal makes it a gateway drug.

[cynatnite]

29. So you think pot is the same has cocaine and heroin? They're equals? n/t

[Litespeed]

30. Umm why not?

The "War on drugs" has been a colossal failure. Why keep fighting a war we'll obviously never win?

[rcrush]

32. Nice first post.

Welcome to DU

[leftofthedial]

31. why not?

Are those rhetorical questions?

[booley]

33. What if Alcohol or cigarettes were Legalized?

I think what you have is a fallacious argument.

We already have certain drugs legalized without legalization across the board. Marijuana is NOT Heroin or Cocaine. We don't have to treat them l the same if we decide not too.

[tblue]

34. Slippery slopes can be used to argue anything. What if aspirin were made illegal?

Don't worry about playing those games with people who immediately jump to the extreme examples to make their fallacious arguments. Or at least be prepared to shoot back with your own, if only to show how ridiculous theirs are.

[JackRiddler]

39. If Marijuana is Illegal, Then Why Not Alcohol? Why Not Tobacco?

What's the counter argument to that?

[endarkenment]

41. Two points

If we had a rational drug prohibition policy based on harm, alcohol, tobacco, cocaine, and heroin would all be illegal as they are addictive substances that cause, to a varying degree, documented and serious medical harm to chronic users. Marijuana, on the other hand, is not addictive, nor does it cause any documented serious medical harm to chronic users.

If we had a rational drug policy, rather than a drug prohibition policy, it would not be based on criminalization of drug users, but on treatment of drug users. Consenting informed adult behavior that does not cause direct harm to others is not a criminal matter in a rational society. Allowing cocaine, tobacco, alcohol, and even heroin users to legally purchase and use their addictive drug of choice reduces the general level of harm to society by eliminating the black market in these drugs and in doing so crippling the primary source of revenue to the criminal gangs that control the black markets. Diverting addicts from prisons to voluntary treatment centers would drastically reduce the costs of our prison industrial complex, and allow those addicts seeking treatment to lead ordinary productive lives in spite of their addiction, rather than being reduced, as we do with heroin and some cocaine addicts, to lives of criminal squalor enforced on them by an unforgiving and relentlessly intolerant system.

On edit: what a shock, the OP seems to have posted and fled.

[RiverStone]

107. Question: If we had a "rational drug policy" would more folks use weed?

I don't disagree with you, but I'm wondering if such a policy would increase the likelihood of kids (for example) making unhealthy choices.

[endarkenment]

145. Probably - but kids already abuse

alcohol and tobacco - both clearly more harmful than marijuana - and we accept that social cost.

After the end of alcohol prohibition there was in fact a spike in alcohol use, which then tapered off and reached its natural base of 'people who will use or abuse alcohol on a regular basis'. Prohibition does deter some segment of the population from using a drug, but it does so while incurring just astounding negative costs in harm to those caught up in the criminal justice system, in the cost of enforcement of the prohibition laws, in the social effects of criminalization, and in the creation and sustenance of criminal gangs funded by the black market in controlled substances.

[Zen Democrat]

42. Can you grow cocaine and heroin in your yard? They call it "grass" for a reason.

[tkmorris]

44. Do people actually think this way?

Usually I only see arguments this poor posted as some sort of intellectual exercise, in order to show the ease of refuting them, or to illustrate how some go to any lengths, however illogical, to try to justify a bad position. I rarely meet anyone who actually THINKS this way.

Who tried to sell this to you Yavin?

[many a good man]

45. Why does one need a counter argument?

Ending prohibition would allow the delivery and expansion of public health services to the victims of addiction. Moreover, it would bring to an end the international drug wars ravaging this planet.

Even the stodgy old Economist magazine believes the War on Drugs is failure... see this thread in E&OA http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=103&topic_id=431794&mesg_id=431794

[whosinpower]

47. They should all be legalized

They should all be regulated, legalized, and TAXED.
And the billions of dollars wasted on criminal investigations/prosecutions/imprisonment costs should be spent on education, and health reform.

Take a big bite out of organized crime cartels monoploy over criminal activities by undercutting them, and forcing them to pay taxes - just like the rest of us.

The war on drugs is a failure on so many levels. The drug lords know something though - there is demand for their product. What would happen if the costs of those very drugs were cut in half, and offered in safe houses, where a person could enjoy their high safely, knowing that the product was not funky, and that there would be a much bigger investment on education on the dangers of drug use.

Regulate them, legalize them, and tax them. Drug use and abuse being a criminal activity has not infringed on the demand for the product. But, it has created other criminal activities and income streams for organized crime on so many levels from gun running, to prostitution, to robbery.....the list goes on and on - just to pay someones habit that got out of control.

[mike_c]

49. I support decriminalization of most drugs....

At the very least, they should be brought out of the criminal economy where they fund organized crime, human rights offenses, and the prison-industrial complex. We should have complete legalization of most that are no more harmful than, say, alcohol (or we should restrict the legal status of alcohol, conversely). That would permit marijuana, most hallucinates, and even dose controlled opiates. I don't have any problems with that at all.

[Uncle Joe]

51. Why not? I believe they should be.

Drug use/abuse/addiction should be educational, medical and or personal privacy issues, not a criminal issue.

I believe the War Against Drugs has in fact magnified any societal adverse conditions associated to drugs; overdoses, addiction, crime in general, family dysfunction, abuse and destruction, corruption in government and enrichment of organized crime just to name a few.

The rare occasions when I've watched COPs or some like program and they made arrests of people strung out on drugs, I view that as symptoms of the failures behind the so called War on Drugs policy, not so much the curse of the drugs them selves. When they bust in to a house rousting people out of their beds like Gestapo and kids are crying and screaming, that's the effects of The War on Drugs, not the drugs.

[Skip Intro]

52. What gives the state the right to regulate what free consenting adults do with their own bodies,

minds and money?

What is the basis for the right of the state to tell you you may or may not ingest anything in the privacy of your own home?

That seems to be the question to me.

I lean toward saying all drugs should be legal, but especially naturally occurring ones, even if processed. I lean toward a government that educates and regulates for quality and purity rather than one that says, "you may not." What right do they have to tell me I may not?

[CJCRANE]

53. All drugs should be rated for toxicity and addictiveness

including caffeine, alcohol and nicotine. I think people would be surprised at which ones are worse.

If narcotics were decriminalized there would be a lot less crime because they would be a tenth of the price and they would be safer (street drugs are usually mixed with all kinds of toxic crap). IMO they should be available on prescription.

[ixion]

54. I'm for legalizing and regulating all of them

that's the only way to pull money from gangs and organized crime.

[Gregorian]

55. Primairly because we have cannabis receptors.

Therefore cannabis is not lethal.

[notesdev]

56. If you're acting on principle

there is no difference. Either it is OK to have a police state monitor what people put into their bodies or it isn't.

Personally, I think we're better off without the police state. If anything in the federal budget is 100% pure waste, the DEA is it.

[Stephanie]

57. If marijuana is illegal, then why not tobacco?

[Political Tiger]

60. Or alcohol? n/t

[DireStrike]

85. Or caffeine? -nt-

[Political Tiger]

58. No one ever overdosed and died from smoking marijuana. n/t

[skepticscott]

61. Cocaine is legal

So are PCP, methamphetamine, oxycodone and a whole host of other drugs...under certain conditions. It's really wrongheaded to think of drugs as legal/illegal when it's usually more useful to think about them in terms of the level of regulation and control. When you talk about 'legalizing' marijuana, you have to be clear whether you mean making it available by prescription (whereas now it has no legally accepted medical use), or allowing anyone of any age to buy it like Tylenol, or something else.

[jedr]

62. If guns are legal. why not murder?...n/t

[sohndrsmith]

81. Actually - you make the best point (whether you mean to or not) : )

The danger/injury to others that occurs when something is misused or negligently, recklessly used... is the crime.

Alcohol is legal. But you can't do whatever you want with it because sometimes that can result in danger/risk/death to others. It's legal (though not advisable) to drink oneself to death, however.

Guns are legal. But you can't do whatever you want with them.

Pot is illegal. If you're carrying a certain amount, you're arrested - even if the only reason you have it is for personal use...

Other drugs are illegal. If you're caught with them, you're arrested - even if the only reason you have it is for personal use.

You can fill your car with vodka and even if you are stopped by the cops, there is nothing illegal about this (as long as the bottles aren't open).

The laws are clearly screwy.

[steelmania75]

63. There is no counter argument.

If cigarettes and booze are legal, then weed, crack, and heroin should be too.

[tangent90]

64. What is the rationale for making them ILlegal?

Prevention? We all know how wel -that- works. I don't object to being "my brother's keeper" up to a point but if he wants to snort coke or mainline turpentine I say it's none of my business. Obviously endangering others whilst imbibing should continue to be sanctioned...in much the same way as other non-drug-related behavior is.

[midnight]

66. WHO survey of 17 countries finds that we have the highest rates of marijuana and cocaine use.

Some of the most striking numbers are from the Netherlands, where adults are permitted to possess a small of marijuana and purchase it from regulated businesses. Some U.S. officials have claimed that these Dutch policies have created some sort of decadent cesspool of drug abuse, but the new study demolishes such assertions: In the Netherlands, only 19.8 percent have used marijuana, less than half the U.S. figure.

Funny, ONDCP ,Office of National Drug Control Policy, takes precisely the opposite line whenever a state considers liberalizing its marijuana laws. In a March press release, deputy Drug Czar Scott Burns railed against a New Hampshire proposal to decriminalize marijuana, saying such a move "sends the wrong message to New Hampshire's youth, students, parents, public health officials and the law enforcement community," and would lead to "more drugs, drug users and drug dealers on their streets and communities."

Now if we make cigarettes legal, a drug just as deadly and addictive as heroin, it does make you wonder why cocaine and heroin are illegal doesn't it? I guess if someone who is using Marijuana and has to confront the harassment of speaking for other drugs, I just might bring up other legal drugs. Another legal drug-alcohol. I would ask about why we legalized that addictive, destructive drug?

[Spike89]

67. What does "natural" have to do with this?

Seriously, I have no patience for the drug war and pot should be legalized BUT the argument that it is a natural plant is a total red herring. So what? Angel cap mushrooms are natural plants and they'll kill you in one use. Aspirin is fairly heavily "distilled" yet is pretty benign. I don't get natural vs. processed...that difference in itself is totally meaningless as an indicator of whether the substance is healthful or not.

[cboy4]

69. Because then it opens the door to doing away with

prescriptions for pain drugs.

If heroin is legal, should I be able to buy Oxycontin directly from the pharmaceutical or the drug store.

It's the same drug. It's an opioid.

You can't compare the addiction fallout from marijuana to the horrific stories of cocaine and heroin dependency.

I just don't see comparisons and I've never heard addicts or experts talk about the comparisons .. especially the heavy withdrawal symptoms. That's for sure.

I don't see evidence that marijuana is any more addictive than nicotine.

EDIT: Typos

[TroglodyteScholar]

70. Because it's impossible to overdose on marijuana

Whereas it's pretty easy to overdose on heroin or coke.

[Winterblues]

72. If jaywalking was made legal why not murder?

As long as we are talking oranges and apples.. :shrug:

[Liberal In Texas]

73. Legalize everything. The crime rate will plummet. n/t

[immoderate]

74. Non-sequiter. Why should marijuana be illegal?

--imm

[daleo]

76. If marijuana is prohibited, then why not alcohol? Why not tobacco? n/t

[sohndrsmith]

77. I think the legalization/criminalization focus is misdirected.

Alcohol is illegal if you use it in such a way that it harms others. I don't see why the regulations for other intoxicants/drugs are not geared towards these definitions (including sale/distribution - to minors or w/o a license).

It would make more sense if the laws were constructed to deal with the problem or dangerous behaviour, rather than the existence of a substance (or the personal use of it - if done by an adult who is not putting others at risk by doing so).

just a thought...

[ConcernedCanuk]

83. yup

.
.
.

:thumbsup:

[Nye Bevan]

82. Compelling article in this week's "Economist" arguing for legalization of *all* drugs

Next week ministers from around the world gather in Vienna to set international drug policy for the next decade. Like first-world-war generals, many will claim that all that is needed is more of the same. In fact the war on drugs has been a disaster, creating failed states in the developing world even as addiction has flourished in the rich world. By any sensible measure, this 100-year struggle has been illiberal, murderous and pointless. That is why The Economist continues to believe that the least bad policy is to legalise drugs.

http://www.economist.com/printedition/displayStory.cfm?Story_ID=13237193

[DireStrike]

84. Those substances are physically addictive

And have far more serious health consequences.

[sohndrsmith]

97. unlike alcohol and tobacco. Um... ok. n/t

[DireStrike]

138. Hey, I didn't make the laws.

Yep, they sure are crazy. Weed should be legal before cigs and alcohol.

[NashVegas]

86. Cause Me and My Frat Brothers Never Shot Up

:sarcasm:

[Forkboy]

87. This is like comparing and Uzi to a banana.

[Chemical Bill]

88. Legalize the all!

More people die from alcohol related causes anyway. Legal drugs are consistent in quality and potency, which will cut down on accidental overdoses. And frankly, I support legal suicide. BTW, yes, I've lost friends and loved ones to drugs and alcohol.

Bill

[ret5hd]

89. Why would Yavin4 leave this poor poor thread as an orphan in the wilderness?

[TexasProgresive]

91. Legalize it all

and allow the sale and use in specialized parks. All revenue from sale goes to maintenance of the areas and for treatment centers and cemeteries. Put the drug lords out of business.

[OwnedByFerrets]

92. Not that my opinion matters, but an adult human should

be able to injest ANYTHING into their bodies that they wish. Hell, its legal to smoke cigarettes and its a KNOWN killer. Why not ANY drug. Its my body. If I want to destroy it, I should have the legal option.

[zagging]

101. I agree, but against your will, we will save you from your stupidity

I have no idea why.

[fascisthunter]

95. death from addiction

as opposed to having the munchies, dry mouth and red eyes. :smoke:

[endarkenment]

98. addiction doesn't kill you. withdrawal might.

addiction in itself is not fatal. The substance you are addicted to, like for example tobacco, might have very serious medical issues associated with chronic use, but that is different than the addictive quality of the substance.

[fascisthunter]

148. not if you Overdose

[endarkenment]

153. Ah well yes indeed

that is a risk again, not directly of the addiction, but of the toxic properties of the substance one is addicted to, and to the irregularity and unavailability of dosage information, which in turn is directly related to the illegal status of the substance. Heroin overdose fatalities are almost always unintentional, that is to say the user was not trying to get particularly high, was not on an out of control binge, but simply got hit with an irregularly large dose. That is rarely the case with, for example, alcohol overdose fatalities, which are generally the result of an intention to get particularly inebriated. Of course there are always the intentional overdose cases, but I support an individual's right to terminate his own life. In either case (legal alcohol vs illegal heroin) the addiction itself does not cause the overdose. When was the last time you heard of a fatal tobacco overdose? (It is possible of course.)

[Dr Fate]

100. Or 180 proof liquor, for that matter.

It's my god-given right to get blotto, dammit- plus, I just like the taste.

[Lyric]

103. No counter argument from me.

In my Perfect World, all drugs would be legal to buy, sell, grow, possess, and ingest by legal, consenting adults. DUI, public intoxication, and other unsafe practices would remain illegal, of course. Vicodin is a legal drug, but even with a prescription, if you get caught driving while taking it, your ass is going to jail. It should be the same with all other drugs. I'm tired of the government telling people what they can and cannot do with their own bodies.

If we had a Constitutional Amendment stating that every person has full bodily autonomy over their own body, so long as they are not violating someone else's rights with their body, then a LOT of nanny-state, big-brother, invasive laws would be null and void, including those that limit/outlaw abortion and drug use.

[Baikonour]

104. There are plenty deaths related to cocaine or heroin. There are no deaths related to marijuana. n/t

[LeftyMom]

108. And if that happened people might use drugs!

:scared:

Gee, thanks for that novel argument Maude Flanders.

[rcrush]

109. Drugs r bad mmmkay?

But Towlie dont give a fuck!

[dana_b]

110. opiates have their medicinal uses

morphine has helped a hell of a lot of people. cocaine I'm not too sure about but I know that marijuana helps those with glaucoma, HIV or AIDS, cancer, and other chronic illnesses. legalize it at LEAST for those purposes.

[ContinentalOp]

111. All of them should be decriminalized and addiction should be treated as a health issue,

not a legal issue.

[Canuckistanian]

113. Because Cocaine and Heroin cause DEATH

NOBODY and I mean NOBODY ever died from an overdose of Marijuana.

[dysfunctional press]

121. that's pretty much where my thinking comes from too...

and yes- alcohol can be just a deadly as cocaine and/or heroin- but the chances of unintentional overdose seems to be much, MUCH more likely with the powders...especially if they were as widely available as alcohol tends to be, for those of legal age.

BUT- the continued illegal trade certainly means more and more violence and corruption on both sides of the border(mexico)...

:shrug:

[gollygee]

120. If alcohol is legalized, why not marijuana?

That argument is faulty. If handguns are legalized, why not hand grenades? If going 65 mph is legalized, why not going 105 mph?

[WillieW]

123. Marijuana is an herb, cocaine and heroin are hard core drugs

[defendandprotect]

124. Marijuana doesn't cause deaths -- cocaine, heroin, other stuff has and can . . .

[defendandprotect]

125. PLUS, marijuana would be enough, IMO, to overturn Drug War . . .

Cocaine, Heroin -- Crack -- wouldn't be the largest users ---

The most important thing is to get rid of the Drug War ---

and if we had to legalize cocaine, Heroin to do it --- controlled somewhat

differently, perhaps, then I'm for it!

[cliffordu]

126. Legalize, regulate, tax and spend the proceeds to treat addicts, which should

be a medical problem and NOT a legal one. Period.

[Politicalboi]

128. Cocaine Rich man's aspirin

Poor man's headache.

[unapatriciated]

129. Legalize It....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atMQzRFvCIY

[dorkulon]

133. Indeed, why not?

It would eliminate gangs and traffickers, assure quality of product, and would NOT lead to some epidemic of junkies and coke heads all over the place. People who want to do these drugs are already doing them.

[FudaFuda]

136. You can't OD on pot.

Nobody dies, nobody gets hurt. Well, mostly nobody.

[Toucano]

140. I first have to hear the argument against legalization of cocaine and heroin.

There are some differences between the substances, but I am not prepared to defend a social policy that makes the state my nanny and prohibits consumption of some substances and permits other equally dangerous substances to be consumed.

I think we need a SANE policy based on logic and reason. Not one based on fear and driving profits to big pharma.

[upi402]

142. if alcohol is legal - why NOT pot?

Folks do crazy shir on booze. And folks just do lazy shit on pot.

I don't smoke, or even drink... but to it does not follow to say, 'why not cocaine? why not herion?'...
It's like saying 'if guns are legal, why not rocket launchers, why not Sidewinders?'

[crimsonblue]

143. The fact remains that cocaine is LESS regulated than marijuana.

Cocaine is a Schedule II narcotic, according the FDA. This means that the drug is heavily regulated, but has intrinsic medical purposes. Marijuana, on the other hand, is a Schedule I narcotic, meaning that the FDA believes marijuana has no medical benefit.

[roody]

146. Absolutely! Decriminalize---take away the profit. Treat drug

addiction as the health problem it is.

[Joe Fields]

147. pot is not addictive.

period. next question?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

151. Nice Hit And Run.

Regardless of your lack of responses to people in this thread, I see that at least many have already answered the ridiculously simple and obvious question in the OP.

[krabigirl]

152. Marijuana is not physically addictive, and is pure. (well, it can not be, but most likely is)

However, while I disagree that hard drugs should be legal to just buy in a store, possession should NOT be a crime.

[benEzra]

154. Because cannabis is demonstrably LESS dangerous and LESS addictive than alcohol, which is legal.

The same cannot be said of opioids, cocaine, and methamphetamine. Most "club drugs" (MDMA and analogs) would likely fall into "equal to or less dangerous than alcohol" category from a pharmacological standpoint, I suspect.

And I believe that if cannabinoids were legal, there would be a lot fewer people using the hard drugs, because Prohibition drives the market toward the more potent and addictive form (just as it did in the 1920's when it drove the alcohol market away from beer and toward distilled beverages, which are more profitable and easier to smuggle on a per-dose basis).