The Coming Evangelical Collapse

[cynatnite]

Oneida, Ky. - We are on the verge – within 10 years – of a major collapse of evangelical Christianity. This breakdown will follow the deterioration of the mainline Protestant world and it will fundamentally alter the religious and cultural environment in the West.

Within two generations, evangelicalism will be a house deserted of half its occupants. (Between 25 and 35 percent of Americans today are Evangelicals.) In the "Protestant" 20th century, Evangelicals flourished. But they will soon be living in a very secular and religiously antagonistic 21st century.

snip:
1. Evangelicals have identified their movement with the culture war and with political conservatism. This will prove to be a very costly mistake. Evangelicals will increasingly be seen as a threat to cultural progress. Public leaders will consider us bad for America, bad for education, bad for children, and bad for society.

The evangelical investment in moral, social, and political issues has depleted our resources and exposed our weaknesses. Being against gay marriage and being rhetorically pro-life will not make up for the fact that massive majorities of Evangelicals can't articulate the Gospel with any coherence. We fell for the trap of believing in a cause more than a faith.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0310/p09s01-coop.html

This is a fascinating read, folks. I highly rec this.

[dysfunctional press]

1. "Between 25 and 35 percent of Americans today are Evangelicals..."

i really don't think the number/percentage is anywhere near that high. perhaps 25-35% of american christians, but not a quarter to a third of the general population.

do they cite whose ass they pulled that figure from?

[JJ]

6. I believe it.

You must not live in a small-town/rural area. It's probably like 40% around here, though not all are in-your-face about it.

[BlooInBloo]

8. Aren't like 80-90% of Americans Christian?

If so, then their number isn't far off, if at all, by your hypothesis.

[NCDem60]

18. Latest survey shows drop from 86 to 75%.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/LIVING/wayoflife/03/09/us.religion.less.christian/index.html

[roguevalley]

43. its a high self identification number but attendance is much lower

[proud2BlibKansan]

11. No it's more like 2 - 3%

Between 25 and 35% of Christians in America are Evangelicals.

[Kablooie]

24. They must be that constant 20% that love Bush.

[muriel_volestrangler]

32. 2008 ARIS: 76% are Christian, and 44.8% of those are 'born again or evangelical'

See http://b27.cc.trincoll.edu/weblogs/AmericanReligionSurvey-ARIS/reports/p1a_belong.html and http://b27.cc.trincoll.edu/weblogs/AmericanReligionSurvey-ARIS/reports/p1b_belief.html

So that's .76 * .448 = 34.0% of (adult) Americans are 'born again or evangelical'. This is the survey referenced in reply #18, with about 50,000 respondents. From the highlights:

34% of American adults considered themselves "Born Again or Evangelical Christians" in 2008.

http://b27.cc.trincoll.edu/weblogs/AmericanReligionSurvey-ARIS/reports/highlights.html

[dysfunctional press]

39. abcnews came up with a much lower number- less than 12%.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=7041036&page=1

it may depend a lot on who's asking the question, how they phrase it, and who they're asking. as well as how one might define 'evangelical'...the church i grew up attending and being educated by was a missouri-synod lutheran 'evangelical' church, but their version/definition of 'evangelical' seems to be a LOT different, and a lot more low-key than the type of evangelicalism practiced by a lot of the even more whacked out baptists or jehovah's witnesses.

[muriel_volestrangler]

40. It's the same survey - they've pulled out 3 categories of description of church

as the press release did:

Most of the growth in the Christian population occurred among those who would identify only as "Christian," "Evangelical/Born Again," or "non-denominational Christian." The last of these, associated with the growth of megachurches, has increased from less than 200,000 in 1990 to 2.5 million in 2001 to over 8 million today. These groups grew from 5 percent of the population in 1990 to 8.5 percent in 2001 to 11.8 percent in 2008. Significantly, 38.6 percent of mainline Protestants now also identify themselves as evangelical or born again.

http://www.americanreligionsurvey-aris.org/

ABC reported that as:

While Americans may be leaving established denominations, the one major growth area in American Christianity is among evangelicals. Megachurches are booming, rising from 5 to 11.8 percent of the population.

Those figures are in the 'Christian Generic' category of the 'religious tradition' question. They've gone from 8% in 1990, adding those 3 subcategories specified in the ARIS press release, to 11.8%. But it's worth noting that the 4th subcategory , "Protestant Unspecified", has dropped in that time from 9.8% to 2.3% (though that drop all happened between 1990 and 2001). So the 'Christian Generic' is not much changed in size, from 1990.

But there are 2 questions in the survey: the identification of 'religious tradition', as above, where "Evangelical/Born Again" is one option ,and so are "United Church of Christ", "Methodist" etc. ; and the identification of the person themselves - the question was "Do you identify as a Born Again or Evangelical Christian?", and that's where the 34% result comes from.

[dysfunctional press]

41. if you watch the video segment, they word it differently...

they use that 11.8% number as the total number of evangelicals.

but like i said- there are also different definitions of evangelical to different groups. the 'evangelical' lutheran church that i was raised in in sub-urban chicago is a whole lot different than the kind of 'evangelical' baptist churches that you might find spread throughout the bible belt. the same can hold true even for the term 'born again', with some people taking a much more subdued approach to it than others.

[santamargarita]

2. My dog loves it when they ring the door bell

[Duer 157099]

3. The irony is that they'll believe it to be persecution

They'll never understand how they themselves contributed to this via their "culture wars" and political activism.

I just wish the Rapture were a real event so that they could all disappear. The sooner the better. Win-win, imho.

[Sequoia]

57. And they'll quote Bible verses to back themselves up.

When I was a kid I was raised in this sort of enviornment and we were told that this event would happen in our adult future and how good Christians would be hauled before the "evil ones" and we would be blamed for things so we'd better learn our Bible verses so we could quote them when being intergatoed by the evil liberals/hippies/communists/gays/infidels/heathens/pagans, etc.

Seriously.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

4. the author is falling into the trap of duality

"them versus us" as if there is no middle ground. Personally, I think religion, like all works of mankind, is evolving, ever changing--it will be interesting to see when and if these folks finally realize that.

[Tigermoose]

22. I agree. "The Secular" vs. "The Church" is a false dichotomy

When Christians setup this false framework it inevitably leads to fear and judgment of others rather than love and compassion.

[Demeter]

5. So, Trying to Whip Up the Troops?

Fill those quivers, indoctrinate those women and children?

ah, it's time to go back into the closet! Forget politics, stick to the Bible. That will keep us pure! If Reality doesn't do us in!

these folks sure are anti-darwin, even to the point of preferring extinction to letting go of their false gods.

[Lady Effingbroke]

7. Hurry it up, already!

[marmar]

9. I guess they'll get their Rapture after all.....

..... just not the one they envisioned.

[anonymous171]

10. This is why religion shouldn't attach itself to a political movement. nt

[DonCoquixote]

12. Be wary

Yes, the power of the Evangelicals is going to wane a bit, but keep in mind, back when we were an English colony, the King dumped a lot of these troublemakers onto what would be the United States. People ask why Australia or Canada do not show some of the same traits the US does, and it traces back to the fact that what would be the USA was a used as a valve to bleed off these Puritans, who had already proven they were capable of killing a King, While the Monarchy had regained power, folks like king George knew that if he tried to confront them directly, another Oliver Cromwell could rise up, so they gave them the USA.

So, the moral is that the Evangelicals were troublemakers long before they came to our shores. As much as they will wane in power, we cannot forget that they were at the core of this country's founding, and will never really be silent, because, truth be told, they tasted blood, and have been tasting blood ever since it started spurting from the neck of King Charles. As someone NOT of their number once put it "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance."

[eppur_se_muova]

50. If only we had been a penal colony, like Australia!

Then we could hold our heads high. :)

[varelse]

13. I think they're just lost, hopelessly so

And not because I'm an aethist who has little common ground with evangelical Christians, but because of the secular view that seems to have taken over the movement, and which seeps into so much of their discourse. From the linked op ed piece:

4. Despite some very successful developments in the past 25 years, Christian education has not produced a product that can withstand the rising tide of secularism. Evangelicalism has used its educational system primarily to staff its own needs and talk to itself.

7. The money will dry up.

It's like he's talking about friggin' Amway, rather than a spiritual or religious movement. :(

[roguevalley]

44. I think they are suffering what all movements suffer, hitting a peak

and needing a reevaluation of their progress. It won't happen and so like other periods of evangelical and religious fervor, they will fall back. Unless there is an intellectual foundation to something there can't be progress. Emotionalism and call/response and personal advancement hits a brick wall after a while. Ask the conservatives. Same thing. They are in their own way more secular than people who are professors but live in the world without tying their life up in what they self identify with.

[RollWithIt]

14. The most interesting paragraph, for me....

Will it shake lose the prosperity Gospel from its parasitical place on the evangelical body of Christ? Evidence from similar periods is not encouraging. American Christians seldom seem to be able to separate their theology from an overall idea of personal affluence and success.

Ok.... WHAT? REREAD THAT THREE TIMES PLEASE.

The author starts out by saying "Will it shake lose the prosperity Gospel from its parasitical place om the evangelical body of Christ." Prosperity Gospel. Parasitical Place. Body of Christ. The Gospel of Prosperity. Jesus didn't preach prosperity. So the prosperity gospel is false. So it is a parasite on the evangelical body of Christ.

[FatDave]

19. I follow you that far.

And I agree with your interpretation. He's saying that evangelicals are too concerned with gaining wealth, and that that isn't very Christian.

Where I get lost is the rest of the paragraph.

Evidence from similar periods is not encouraging.

I'm wondering about the evidence and the similar periods. Have there been other times when Christianity was in the hands of the greedy? Is it a reference to Catholocism and the treasures of The Vatican? It doesn't seem like a valid comparison, as it seems like he's comparing the greed of the shepherds (then) to the greed of the flock (now). Not that today's shepherds aren't greedy bastards, but he's talking specifically about "American Christians" not "American Christian leaders". Then again, maybe he is talking about the leaders, what with the references to parasites on the body of Christ.

American Christians seldom seem to be able to separate their theology from an overall idea of personal affluence and success.

Is he suggesting that they believe wealth comes from a belief in Christ? Really? I know the message has been perverted, but has it really been that perverted? 180 degrees perverted?

I suppose he could just be saying that Christianity and wealth-seeking are mutually exclusive, but the need to "separate their theology" implies that the two have become intertwined.

Was he purposely obfuscating his message? Trying to sneak it under the radar of those whom it would most offend? Or am I just a moron who's having trouble with reading comprehension?

[LBJDemocrat]

31. No.

The prosperity gospel refers to a specific mindset about the acquisition of wealth: the one preached by scum like this guy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creflo_Dollar.

[Fumesucker]

37. Is he suggesting that they believe wealth comes from a belief in Christ?

I know a few "Christians" who believe exactly that.

So the answer to your question is; yes..

[Kolesar]

48. If you are wealthy, then you are blessed

and it must have come from your morality. I think of it as the "Protestant work ethic" and predestination.

[bigmonkey]

54. And the unfortunate corollary is that...

for someone who believes this delusion, they may actually see having been appointed to a job that they are unqualified for as a gift from God. I think of "Heck-of-a-job Brownie" in this context, although I have no idea about his religious beliefs. He's just an egregious example of the powerful unqualified.

I had often wondered how such folks could combine obvious inability with selfish arrogance, but if they believe that their salary comes from God, then they really count as the anointed in their own minds, don't they?

[Terran]

52. I'm not sure what your point is...?

That's not meant to be rude, seriously; it seems like a straightforward statement to me and you're just agreeing with the author. It's hard to believe, maybe, if you're not familiar with this idea, but Evangelicals have been getting the prosperity gospel from their preachers since the 1910's or earlier. It's been around a long time. Try reading Elmer Gantry for a 1920's take on evangelism and prosperity.

[UTUSN]

15. K&R big #5 for, Can it happen SOON?!1 n/t

[ohheckyeah]

16. I think the article had many valid points -

it has always been my contention that mixing the church into politics is bad for the government, the country and the church.

[tabbycat31]

17. good article

K&R

[upi402]

20. Jesus, save me from your followers

-my fave bumper sticker!

[johnlucas]

21. If they want more members, practice what you preach

The reason religion is in decline is because of too much hypocrisy. It may very well be impossible for any human being not to be a hypocrite but these people boastfully put themselves out there as the keepers of virtue, as beholden to The Word. But when you look at the fruits of the labor you see a lot of hate not a lot of love. Who wants to be around hateful people?

The way I remember it is that only God will make the judgments here, not them. They're too caught up in trying to control other people's lives than just living the life they promote. If you do good things & are sincere, people will join you. Nobody's perfect but if you are a good person overall, you will most likely be treated as such. As foul as human beings are, there IS still respect for people who live good loving lives not trying to hurt anybody. Might be sappy but many people frown on those who hurt good-natured people.

They got too caught up in the conversion aspect & not on the core philosophy behind their religion. And true, they might not have as many members but what they lose in quantity, they make up for in quality.
John Lucas

[Kablooie]

23. They should keep to themselves and not try to force their views on everyone else.

They have a right to believe any nonsense they want, and I have no problem with that,
but if they try to force others to follow them, they will die.

[sakabatou]

25. This is what a religion gets when they hold back progressive ideas

[leftofthedial]

26. "Public leaders will consider us bad..."

Shouldn't that read: "Anyone with two brain cells to rub together will consider us bad..." ?

[Hekate]

27. This article is a very incisive critique of the socio-political movement...

I'm impressed. Pardon my pun, but this critique is Good News.

As someone who fears theocracy and its fanatical and ignorant foot soldiers, I hope the author is right about the retreat of this movement. However, as someone who actually likes the principles of Christianity (President Carter, Reverend Jim Wallis), I hope what happens is that believers go back to core beliefs as articulated by the Sermon on the Mount and so on, and get their religion out of politics. There's an awful lot of horseshit being peddled as "Christian" that has nothing to do with Jesus.

Christianity will endure, but as our Founding Fathers noted, both religion and government are purer when they are not commingled.

Hekate

[Hekate]

28. I particularly like the closing paragraphs, which are very hopeful for the movement...

... and for society, for that matter.

> The loss of their political clout may impel many Evangelicals to reconsider the wisdom of trying to create a "godly society." That doesn't mean they'll focus solely on saving souls, but the increasing concern will be how to keep secularism out of church, not stop it altogether. The integrity of the church as a countercultural movement with a message of "empire subversion" will increasingly replace a message of cultural and political entitlement.
>
> Despite all of these challenges, it is impossible not to be hopeful. As one commenter has already said, "Christianity loves a crumbling empire."
>
> We can rejoice that in the ruins, new forms of Christian vitality and ministry will be born. I expect to see a vital and growing house church movement. This cannot help but be good for an evangelicalism that has made buildings, numbers, and paid staff its drugs for half a century.
>
> We need new evangelicalism that learns from the past and listens more carefully to what God says about being His people in the midst of a powerful, idolatrous culture.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0310/p09s01-coop.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My own belief is that this would not only be good for Christianity but for our culture at large, because I am in favor of such counterculture threads in society.

Hekate

[orleans]

29. "a major collapse of evangelical Christianity?" can't happen soon enough! n/t

[Raine]

30. I wish we didn't have to wait 10 years

their collapse is long overdue. :yoiks:

[cpompilo]

33. I say Amen and Hallelujah

Those brainwashed fanatics are dangerous as they want to bring on the end of the world so that Jesus can come back...

[ksilvas]

34. It's the Rapture\Apocalypse

I've believed this for a while,
The Apocalypse is coming but it means the end of Christianity as we know it,
not the end of the world.

[Odin2005]

35. My Millenial Generation is abandoning the insane religiosity of our Boomer parents.

And not a moment too soon. We are a secular and rational generation, much like the WW2 Generation.

[Mari333]

38. gee and I thought, as a boomer, I was abandoning the ultra self righteous

religions of my parents.
oddly enough, my little brother, who is only 40, is an evangelical ...and I dumped religion decades ago, and I am a boomer.
I think you find them all over the place in many generational groups.

[rvablue]

58. You might be abdoning the religiousity, but not the hubris of your boomer parents

Ah, the baby boomers and their offspring, the millenials.

What would have happened to society without you, oh saviors???

Ridiculous.

[Joanne98]

36. This is what happens when you become a HERETIC!

They worship WALL STREET!

[Ilsa]

42. Good. Evangelicals are terrorist extremists. nt

[Arugula Latte]

45. Sounds too good to be true.

Sadly, ignorance and stupidity are one thing this country is not running out of.

[Lucian]

46. Thank the gods.

This country is moving forward in its thinking, and I love it. :)

[AntiFascist]

47. This is an excellent opportunity...

for left-wing, progressive Protestantism and Evangelicalism to fill the void.

[LeftyMom]

59. NO.

Replacing one kind of irrationality with a different flavor of irrationality is not a step up, it's a lateral move.

The left needs to stand up for rational thought as a keystone of social progress.

[AntiFascist]

61. Rationality and spirituality do not have to be mutually exclusive...

many of the basic tenets of Christianity (as well as many other religions) tend to be more liberal than conservative, and you don't have to dwell on virgin births or 'life after death' in order to follow them. The Religious right wing ideologues have owned all religions for so long that people automatically assume it is a right-wing creation. Progressive and liberation theologians have rarely been given a chance to make their case.

[LeftyMom]

62. Until there's some sort of evidence for any sort of "spiritual" notions, they are.

And once there's evidence then those notions would fall under rationality.

[AntiFascist]

64. What about the Christian notions of...

loving your enemy, turning the other cheek, not being judgemental, or caring for the poor? You don't have to be Christian to follow these, I'm just pointing out that there are 'notions' that aren't necessarilly supernatural.

[RiverStone]

49. I pray it comes sooner than later

:)

[Hubert Flottz]

51. major collapse of evangelical Christianity...

what else can they do but collapse, when the flockkkers have gotten so hungry that they have eaten all the sunday school snakes.

During the "Great Depression" people hadn't watched enough survival shows on TV to have known that Rattlesnakes taste just like the preacher's favorite food...CHICKEN! During the up-coming fundie blessed GOP induced "Great Depression Vol.II" the snakes are the other white meat.

[nadinbrzezinski]

53. Ah the end of the Second American Revival...

[defendandprotect]

55. Supposedly the Vatican is moving the church to Evangelicalism . . .

Meanwhile, I agree with you for the most simple of reasons ... i.e., that organized

patriarchal religion in any form cannot exist without violence. It was introduced

with violence, with the violent overthrow of females -- and in every nation it entered

"the cross was introduced with the sword." What is left of that violence and violent

teachings of a violent "god" is in patriarchal writings - the Bible -- Muslim writings -

Hewbrew writings -- and unless the Vatican begins to build an army again I think it is

going to fall like a house of cards.

[sofa king]

56. Never gonna happen.

Evangelical movements, like political parties, wax and wane, but religion in general loves poverty and the educational disadvantages that come along with it.

We'll have no shortage of those things in ten years.

[indepat]

60. Godly riddance!

:P

[New Dawn]

63. K&R