...in which a teacher rant ensues...

[ulysses]

My "project child" (i.e. the one who demands most of my time and energy) this year is R, a ten-year-old boy with an emotional/behavior disorder. Child gave me a hell of a time first semester, but we made a *lot* of progress. He's very bright, and by early January he was the least of my worries.

End of that month, though, he moved from his dad's house, where he had (by comparison) a lot of structure, to his mom's, which is a circus of assorted teenaged cousins and siblings, some with fairly extensive police experience, none of whom can seem to get up in time to get him to school by 7:50. Things started going downhill, with not much response to my repeated requests for a conference.

Today he was late again. Went up to let him into our building and found him more sluggish than usual on a Monday morning. Asked what was wrong, he said he hit his head on a trampoline frame Saturday when he overrotated a backflip. A quick look revealed a three-inch-diameter knot on the backside of his head with a partially healed gash in the middle.

So, you went to the doctor, right? No, Dad put a napkin on it. (This is a direct quote.)

Did you throw up? Yeah. There was blood everywhere.

You never went to the doctor? No, Dad put me in the bed and told me to take a nap. I felt better when I woke up.

Oh.

The family is poor, like those of most of my kids, but this is the kind of poverty-of-sense that I worked with in Atlanta. When we finally got Mama on the phone, she stated that she wasn't going to call the doctor "because you know he'll just tell me to bring him in". You think? Do you fucking think so? He finally got picked up by a cousin, but I don't know if he ever saw a doctor today.

I'll say it again. If we want to do something about the future of *all* children - and I'm not at all sure that we, as a society, do - then we can't just engage with them while they're at school.

[Muttocracy]

1. ...

:cry:

[roguevalley]

51. its hell to be a teacher. I had a dad tell me that if his son -a first

grader- acted up not to just hit him, *beat* him. Another family lived in a trailer that had no floor, just dirt and the door was a board leaning over the doorway. Kids with no food, no clean clothes, running around in the cold unprepared and they are supposed to learn. What this country sows, so shall it reap. I feel for you, honey. Been there, done that.
Oh, and that didn't count for the family that raced sled dogs and who used to take their two idiot boys into the woods in winter and leave them to see if they could find their way back. :(

[Muttocracy]

56. I know I couldn't handle that sort of thing

One big reason I didn't go into teaching youngsters. :(

[cynatnite]

2. Proof that it does take a village....

Stories like these break my heart. I hope the child can somehow weather the problems with your help.

[ulysses]

5. I'd like to hope so.

Hard to be optimistic, though.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

3. So far, that's one lucky kid

Sounds like a concussion, and the worst thing to do with a concussion is to let the kid go to sleep.

The believers say angels watch over kids like R, but I think people are probably dying every day for lack of health care.

In America.

Our America.

[ulysses]

6. yup. n/t

[NCDem60]

24. Thinking has changed on sleep after a concussion.

Sleep is a natural result of a concussion and should be allowed. The person should be awakened every few hours to be sure symptoms are not worsening.

Concussion Treatment

Generally no medical treatment is prescribed to treat concussions. The more home-based treatment of concussion are as follows:

Rest

Plenty of sleep

Healthy food

Painkillers to relieve headaches

Admission to hospital for close monitoring is needed in severe cases

Antidepressants, if really needed

http://www.ayushveda.com/healthcare/concussion.htm

[Maru Kitteh]

45. True for adults. Children are not miniature adults. Their rules are different.

Their rules say: Get immediate medical attention NOW.

TBIs can kill a kid well after the event, and unexpectedly.

[NCDem60]

52. Yes and no.

I certainly agree any child should be seen by a doctor if a concussion is suspected. My response was about the necessity to deny sleep from a concussion victim whether child or adult.

The following is specific to a child.

# Rest

Encourage your child to lie down and rest until all symptoms have cleared (or at least 2 hours). Your child can be allowed to sleep. You do not need to try to keep your child awake continuously. Just have him sleep near by so you can periodically check on him.

http://www.med.umich.edu/1libr/pa/pa_headtrau_hhg.htm

[BlooInBloo]

4. Gah - I remember that kinda shit and worse when I was working with lil kids back in hick PA...

You're absolutely correct - not *just* while they're at school - as your example clearly demonstrates.

[baldguy]

7. Civilized nations have nationalized health care.

And then there's America.

[Laelth]

50. Hear, hear! n/t

:dem:

-Laelth

[proud2BlibKansan]

8. And you are hotlining it ASAP

Seriously.

[ulysses]

9. think anyone'd listen?

[proud2BlibKansan]

20. Doesn't matter

You know you have to call.

[vadawg]

21. not sure of were you are, but are you not required to call CPS

I know we have to, there is no discretion allowed if you have any belief in abuse.

[proud2BlibKansan]

23. It's a federal law

So yes, we all have to report it when we suspect abuse or neglect.

[ulysses]

26. I'm tired, completely misunderstood what you meant.

Oh hell yeah, I reported it, email and in person. To vadawg - yes, we're mandated reporters. As I said before, I don't think he's being abused, but it's out of my hands as far as my legal duties go. Admins, nurse, social worker.

[proud2BlibKansan]

31. I could have posted a hug or something

Just wanted to make sure you are covering your own ass. These situations can be career enders, you know.

Damn, this work just tugs at your heart some days. :hug:

[vadawg]

10. im gonna come at this differently, i understand people looking for abuse etc

but were do we draw the line, the kid may of said dad just put a napkin over it, but do we know if the father recognised a concussion, ascertained it was mild and actually knew what he was doing. I only say this as someone who when they were younger continually had well intentioned do gooders continually calling the authorities on my family, this caused a lot of crap and was a good enough reason to keep us always moving.

[ulysses]

11. not abuse.

A case could probably be made for neglect, but that isn't the point of the OP. The point is that "education reform" is doomed without at least an equal investment in dispelling the ignorance at home.

[vadawg]

12. Why neglect, did your parents rush you to a doctor everytime you got hurt

im saying we dont know the whole story, just because a doctor wasnt called, , dosent mean its neglect. Also theres a lot of classism to dispelling ignorance at home, you know parents can be pretty good at assessing their kids wounds. Hell my mother gave me more stitches than i can count.

edited to fix words

[ulysses]

14. 1. again, that's not even the point of the OP.

2. perhaps you don't understand that vomiting after a hard blow to the head is pretty much the first really big flag that signals a concussion. Did my parents rush me to the doctor every time I got hurt? Of course not. Would they have given that symptom after that kind of event? Bet your ass.

[vadawg]

16. read number ten, i said mayby his old man recognised a concussion

mayby toi you thats not the point of the OP, i see it differently as i said i was answering the other questions in the thread, as i said what some people see as abuse or neglect may not be. I am not saying dont look at it, report it etc, but remember that sometimes the end results are not what you wish for.

[ulysses]

17. I'd feel better about that if his dad was a physician.

And what do you think I wish for in this case?

[vadawg]

19. not sure what you wish for, why if he was a physician

mayby his old man like mine was a fighter, knows his way round the ring and knows what a concussion is. Mayby his old man served as a medic, nurse etc, you dont know. Just because someone is poor or seemingly uneducated this dosent mean they dont know stuff like this. My mother didnt learn to read until she was in her 20's but i have some of the best stitchwork on wounds you will ever see, even the doctors and medics ive seen since then have all commented on the good job she did.

[Maru Kitteh]

36. Your "old man" boxed ten-year-old children? Really? What an ass.

Because that would be the only experience relevant in that regard to this child's situation.

Children are NOT miniature adults.

If you want to make a coherent point, I highly suggest a different line of argument.

[vadawg]

38. no he didnt box 10 year olds, but he taught younger than that to fight

so yes my old man had a lot of experience with head blows in both adults and children, but i suspect you understood what i was saying and decided to be a bit of a plamf

[Maru Kitteh]

41. I tend to draw the line at the medically ignorant, attempting to spread medical ignorance.

Especially where children are involved.

Your "old man" was not and is not a medical expert unless he received extensive medical training you have heretofore not indicated. Doods in the gym are not medical experts, and NOT QUALIFIED to ascertain when a subject is in need of medical attention unless they have had extensive medical training.

"How many fingers am I holding up" and "Who is the President" and "Skip on one leg for me" DO NOT constitute a full neuropsychological exam.

Doods in the gym who THINK they know shit about TBIs are dangerous fools.

[Maru Kitteh]

46. How many of your brains did she stitch? Perhaps she crocheted?

Brain injury does not equal laceration.

[roguevalley]

53. Poverty at play I am sure. Also, from the sounds of the other kids

there isn't a lot of good adult supervision. You have to be licensed to drive a car but not to have kids. Too bad.

[proud2BlibKansan]

22. Teachers are mandated to report SUSPECTED abuse and neglect

This is a clear case of medical neglect. Ulysses has no choice but to hotline it. It's not up to him to speculate what the father may or may not have done. He has to report it, based on what the kid told him and the bump that was definitely on his head.

Maybe that's what happened to your family too. Not everyone is a do gooder. Any professional who works with kids has to hotline suspected abuse and neglect. It's a federal law and we can lose our professional certification if we don't hotline.

[vadawg]

25. I agreed with you above, i was just wondering how far this can go

does this mean that a parent must take their child to a doctor if theres any injury, no matter what just to protect themselves. I shudder to think how many visits to the doctor my parents would have had to make with 15 of us.

[ogneopasno]

28. "Protect themselves"? You'd think they'd maybe want to protect their children.

[vadawg]

29. you misunderstand my use of the word,

im talking about the parents no longer being able to treat their kids injuries but now feeling the need to traipse of to the doctors in fear of being reported and having to explain their actions to a social worker etc.

[Maru Kitteh]

44. GOOD. Parents who do not seek medical care for BRAIN INJURIES absolutely SHOULD be reported

Why do you think anyone misunderstands? You were responding in a thread in which you have demonstrated through your responses that you clearly understand to be about brain injury. You demonstrate WAY more concern for the trouble of parents who must be bothered by caring for their injured children by having to "traipse" to the doctor - in order to protect themselves - as opposed to concern for the potentially BRAIN INJURED CHILD/CHILDREN.

[Maru Kitteh]

42. Especially when that injury is a BRAIN INJURY, no less - right?

Oh hey! It's just a little itty bitty witty brain injury! CHILD SIZE even! What's the big deal? (according to the poster)

Nevermind that mild TBIs can kill a child.

[proud2BlibKansan]

32. If a kid vomits after a head injury it's a no brainer

Between that and the bump, yes, doctor ASAP.

[Posteritatis]

43. If their kid's got a brain injury? Yes, that's exactly what that means (nt)

[FLyellowdog]

27. 100% agree...n/t

[Maru Kitteh]

33. Unless his dad's a fucking doctor

or something DAMN close to it, that's pretty much crap.

"Mild" concussions can kill children.

[vadawg]

35. Wow and how do you know what level of training or experience the father has

i just pointed out we dont, its all beside the point as the OP has to contact the authorities anyway, i was giving a point of view from someone who lived the majority of their life without doctors etc but who invariably always had the authorities trying to take them away from their families.

[Maru Kitteh]

37. Yeah, I just read all about your "old man" that beat up ten-year-olds.

Being hit in the head repeatedly does not make one a medical expert.

[Prophet 451]

47. self-delete n/t

[specimenfred1984]

13. Woulda been a good time to throw 'em in the water, see if he can swim!

Yeehawl! Then, post a video of the head injury occurring on some funniest video TV show so everyone can laugh!

[EFerrari]

15. My mom wasn't stupid but when I had something

Mum used to try to find a doctor that would tell her I was fine because that beat the terror of not being able to pay for health care. We need health care for kids, at least. And meals.

:grouphug:

[pacalo]

40. I like your response.

:hi:

[Iwillnevergiveup]

18. The tale of 2 Americas shows markedly in our schools

I can totally relate to your sad story after teaching in south Chicago and south central L.A. Poverty runs headlong into classrooms and grabs us by the throats. It's survival mode for everyone.

Contrast: today I had to go to a Catholic girls' private high school to pick up some work for a student. It was so set back from the street, I drove by it a couple of times. I went in the entrance and was greeted warmly at a guard shack who gave me directions to the office. This was located in a converted mansion with a reception area outside. A beautifully dressed and coifed 70-ish woman was seated on a couch with a sleeping cat. She also greeted me warmly and led me into the office where the secretary was working. She immediately phoned the teacher who was to bring me the work. The teacher arrived within 10 minutes and apologized for keeping me waiting. When I left, school was just letting out and as I gazed over this country club campus, I watched a couple of hundred girls in their uniforms heading out. This was such a far cry from the public school campuses I've experienced, I just had to stand and watch for awhile. It was totally stress-free - the girls looked tired, but happy. No yelling, no fights, no throwing trash around, no problem.

By the way, you're probably the most important person in this young man's life.

[Maru Kitteh]

30. I know you probably didn't realize this, but you should have called the ambulance first, then the

mom.

I know, it seems like an exaggerated response for a bump on the head a day and a half ago, right?

Children can suffer a markedly delayed, often very sudden, and sometimes fatal response after a seemingly minor brain injury. What you describe is a child who took a serious blow to the head, reported vomiting and in whom you observed lethargy. All of this points heavily to concussion, a very serious medical emergency that absolutely requires immediate medical attention even if it happened a day and a half ago.

When it comes to concussion, children are a special case. They can walk around just fine, showing minimal signs of brain injury shortly after the event and for several hours to a couple days - all the while in their little heads, their poor brain is swelling - until they hit a critical point, then it gets bad.

I hope the little guy is O.K. I hope you convey to them in the strongest possible words that he MUST be taken to the doctor for this injury. If they don't, they should get a visit from CPS about it. If you are able to make the suggestion, it would be good to have him examined by a neurologist or neuropsychologist. You would be amazed at the amazing variety of ways in which brain injuries can manifest themselves, and it sounds like this poor little guy already has way too much against him as it is.

Best of luck to both of you. :hug:

[proud2BlibKansan]

34. A good friend of mine collapsed at school a week ago

Another teacher was with her and called 911 on her cell phone right away. The EMTs and the ER docs said that call saved her life. If the teacher had called the office or ran for help, my friend would have died. She had an aneurism.

And seriously, the worst place to be if you have a medical emergency is an elementary school. Many don't have full time nurses (ours leaves at 11 am) and no one knows CPR.

[Maru Kitteh]

39. Your friend is SO lucky - and I'm SO GLAD everything turned out well.

Depends on where the aneurysm is of course, but some are difficult to impossible to survive even if you have them in the ER of the best damn hospital in the world. Your friend (and you) must be so glad she was in the company of someone who didn't hesitate to make that call. THAT is the kind of thing that absolutely makes MY DAY. :hug:

You're right about the elementary schools, that's why, if there's a suspected emergency I advocate calling the ambulance right away. If the schools even have a nurse, he or she usually has a two-year-degree (or less) which is ABSOLUTELY FINE for 99% of what they will face and/or be asked to do, but anything outside of the normal scope of practice in that setting, absolutely needs to be passed up to the next level.

[tavalon]

48. I was a child like R, not exactly but close enough

Very smart but very abused and neglected at home. What you are able to do for R now will make some sort of a positive difference, even if you never get to see it and you may well never get to see it.

[Mnemosyne]

54. Same here.

:hug:

[Laelth]

49. Single-payer, universal health care might have solved this problem.

Sounds like the mother would have liked to take her child to the doctor. I wonder is she could afford it?

:dem:

-Laelth

[GeorgeGist]

55. capitalism is anti-social ...

and every day we bear witness to the consequences.