The Employee Free Choice Act Must Pass!

[babsbunny]

http://ufcwaction.org/campaign/act_in_congress

The Employee Free Choice Act Must Pass!


In this economy, middle class families struggle while CEOs continue to rake in lavish salaries and bonuses. The Employee Free Choice Act would help level the playing field for workers.



This important bill would give more workers the chance to form unions and negotiate for better pay, benefits, and job security. And that will make things better for all of us.



But corporate interests are working hard to protect the status quo. To defeat the greedy CEOs and anti-union front groups fighting this bill, we need to ratchet up our grassroots efforts. Send the letter below to ask your member of Congress to support the Employee Free Choice Act.

[bbinacan]

1. I'm not well informed on this.

Is this the act that would require giving up the secret ballot?

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. Right wing talking point

the way it is right now the companies can pressure people NOT to go there

This Act would allow people to actually organize, no pressure from management

Why it scares them

[vadawg]

4. so there will still be a secret ballot???? i dont like the idea of open ballots

[backscatter712]

6. Yes, if enough workers choose to do a secret ballot election.

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. Open ballots for union organizing is not that bad

talking point again... this is exactly how it was done in many other developed economies. for one simple reason

It short circuits management

And as labor leaders have repeatedly pointed out... secret ballot, smehter ballot, they find out who the organizers are and fire them

This way, you can literally get up and running before management can respond

It MUST pass

[bbinacan]

8. Don't give me this talking point bullshit.

I would want my vote secret. You say that management will pressure? What about pressure from a union supporter?

[vadawg]

9. what no union guy ever pressures the workers, its unheard of, sarcasm

[Touchdown]

56. Have you been pressured? Tell us your story.

I'm in a union, and know the rules for organizing, so if you have been intimidated, or pressured in any way, then there are steps you can take to hold the organizing offender accountable for his actions. Intimidation by organizers is VERY frowned upon by organized labor, as it can undermine the efforts to organize a shop.

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. Who is pushing that bullshit? Management.

by the way, you repeated the other one

The Labor Relations Board has become a Management Tool... time to do an end run

PERIOD

You want a middle class... YOU NEED A UNION MOVEMENT, a STRONG UNION MOVEMENT

[vadawg]

11. yep we need labour unions, i just want to be able to have my ballot counted and to vote in secret

lots of people have dealt with unions before and have great experiences, but a lot of people have seen the union guy who goes beyond what is the norm, so we dont need management telling us anything, we just need the chance to vote as we see fit without management, unions or anybody else being able to pressurize how we will vote.

[DireStrike]

12. Then when it comes up, don't participate in the card thing. Or, convince your organizers to do a

secret ballot. That is still an option in the bill and in fact the default if the organizers don't choose the card check method.

And management will take any window, and FAST, to pressure everyone in every way possible. Every time. With support from other businesses and consultants. That does NOT stack up to the occasional overzealous union organizer. It's apples to aircraft carriers.

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. Card check is not mandatory

get that through your head

IF YOUR UNION CHOOSES THIS, then you have that, if not secret ballot

Now I am done with the management spin on this

READ THE DAMN BILL

That is all

I hate it when people make up their minds based on spin...

And don't do their job as citizens

[vadawg]

15. theres the key statement "if your union chooses it" im sorry i think this is a bad idea in some way

its no worse or better to have someone from the union come up to you and ask you to put your name to something as it is to have management come up to you to put your name to the opposite.

[nadinbrzezinski]

17. RIGHT... tell me, use the google if needed

what is the current union organizing, and what was it in oh... 1950?

You do the math

[DireStrike]

18. How is it not better or worse?

Your union organizers cannot fire you. It is much better to have a union organizer "pressure" you to do something.

How can a union organizer "pressure" anyone, anyway? By whining and begging with a really, REALLY annoying nasal voice?

[vadawg]

20. yeah right, we all know that there has never been any corruption, coersion or illegal acts by unions

i dont trust my union president any more than i trust management,

[DireStrike]

21. Again

What can a union organizer legally do to pressure employees into joining a union?

What can an employer legally do to accomplish the opposite?

Compare the two.

This also is about the formation of a union. I think that's a different animal than a fully formed, entrenched union.

[nadinbrzezinski]

22. Let me ask you this again

what is the percentage of unionized worked in the US today?

What was the percentage in 1955?

Tell me why?

And all corruption by all labor presidents pales with what management has done

Tell you what... you are right... hope you like working eighty hours a week... no vacations, and no rights

That is what you will get

Happy now?

That is what management wants... that is what they are desperate to go back to

[Touchdown]

64. Name a few.

They don't have to even be nearly as egregious as Roger Stemple, Bernie Madoff, Joe Nacchio, Ken Lay, Thain, ... Kerkorian, ...Skilling, .....Cheney, ......Murdoch, ........Conrad Black, ...Skaife, ... ........................................Henry Ford, ..............................................................Rockefeller..........................................Mellon, .............................*drifting off with 1000 other names* ..................

[Touchdown]

61. Nadin misspoke. You have no union yet. so "your union" can't do anything.

... and can't until you vote it's representation in. YOU decide how you will vote. You and your co-workers. You tell the organizer how you want to vote, and he/she follows your shop's collective order.

Once you're in a union, it never decides then either. You always have a vote, on everything. Your local President (what management calls "bosses"), your stewards, secretary, treasurer, legislative chair, community outreach, etc. You even have a vote on whether or not your union will strike.

Unions are democracies, not Costa Nostra.

[Touchdown]

59. Sounds like you really have a bad experience with union organizers

Was he/she a jerk? Did they not explain the process, and how to unionize your shop within the confines of current labor law? They are employed by the union who approached your shop. You can, and should report them to that union.

I hope this person didn't put you off the whole labor movement. Bad apples is a cliche, but we have a few. They get weeded out very quickly when something as important as organizing a new shop is concerned.

[bbinacan]

14. No matter what you say,

I don't want my vote open to the public. Do you think that who you vote for in elections should be known by all? What if you vote for a gun control bill and work with/for a pro-gun person, or you have friends that are pro-gun, etc. Can you imagine?

[DireStrike]

16. Then when you organize a union...

Use secret ballot.

When a union is organizing, and they want the card check method used, refuse to participate. Ask them to use the secret ballot method instead.

[bbinacan]

23. So what is the point of the Card ChecK? n/t

[DireStrike]

26. I have to admit I'm not entirely sure.

It sure seems to have big business scared though, and I take that to be a good thing.

I guess it makes it easier to get a union set up in the face of overwhelming, or quick acting, management pressure. It seems a small thing to me. But if it's pointless, why would there be such a big fight?

[nadinbrzezinski]

19. YOU CAN USE A SECRET BALLOT IF YOU SO CHOOSE

clear enough?

[bbinacan]

24. So what is the point of the Card ChecK? n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

25. For union organizers that KNOW they cannot get around the Labor Relations Boards practices

which have become a game of how to suppress any and all labor organizing

This is also an end game around Taft Hatley and right to work states

[DireStrike]

27. Can you go into more detail or give links about the effects

on Taft Hartley and Right to Work?

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. Here is the wiki article on Tarf

passed in 1947 by a Republican controlled congress

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taft-Hartley_Act

As you can see, the act created the labor relations board that greatly limits the rights of labor to organize

It created a system that essentially demanded closed ballots and secret ballots

Bear in mind the union movement got its shot in the arm under Warner, which allowed for pretty much free organizing... and that was a creature of the Great Depression. This act will return the country to a pre Taft status, or as close as you can get these days.

In fact, this is why management fears EFCA... the last thing they need is a return to a better right to organize. They fear that labor gets this, the work of fifty years to destroy labor will be overturned in a night

For the record, I am not a labor organizer, nor have ever belonged to a union

Hubby does... and has had a mixed experience with them

But for the record, I'm not. Just chose to read the damn things when it first was formalized

[FLDCVADem]

33. I don't see how this

is an end game around right to work states. Unions will be able to organize, but they still won't be able to force people to join in right to work states.

[nadinbrzezinski]

35. They will be able to organize, which right now they can't

the AFL-CIO has even pointed this out... they will be able to finally organize in these states since oh 1947

[FLDCVADem]

36. Yes, they'll be able to organize

And they still won't be able to force people to join unions, which is the whole point of the right to work movement.

[nadinbrzezinski]

37. Free clue, the RTW movement is a right wing movement

a Republican movement

Who does it benefit

Connect dots

That is all

[FLDCVADem]

38. I'm not questioning that

Just stating the obvious - organizing a union won't eliminate or get around the laws of a right to work state.

[nadinbrzezinski]

39. And I am telling you, unions will spring up

especially now

[FLDCVADem]

40. Yes, they will spring up

And in right to work states, people still won't be forced to join unions. So how exactly will that get around the right to work laws?

[nadinbrzezinski]

42. They don't have to... in fact, in case you don't know this... people working for the

USPS service, for example, are part of unions, but... you are not forced to, ANYWHERE in the country

THe USPS unions thrive

Facts, I know

Right now they can't even try to organize... that will be over

[FLDCVADem]

44. There most certainly are

parts of the country where workers are forced to join unions if they want certain jobs. That's the whole idea of the union shop.

[nadinbrzezinski]

45. Here is a free clue that people who spew this bilge miss

you want to be an electrician, even in those horrible states

You can get that training through the union, even in those horrible states

Or you can get the same training thorough independent shops

I know, I live in one of those horrible states

Here is the other fact, those people who work at a NON union shop, get better pay and benefits since the UNION shops have them, and the non union shops want to compete for that labor

I know shocking

Hell I know one guy who is a refrigeration tech, he got all his cards and training in non union shops, and when he finally decided to join the union, his choice, he presented his cards, paid his fees and got his card

Bet that is gonna be what happens in RTW states, and why management is fighting this tooth and nail

[FLDCVADem]

46. No one

has said anything about "horrible states" except for you, and you seem to be intentionally obtuse on the issue of right to work laws vis a vis the EFCA.

If a cashier wants to work at Giant in Virginia, she doesn't have to join a union to do so - right to work state.

If that same cashier wants to work at a Giant in DC, she does have to join the union or pay union fees in order to work - not a right to work state.

So, if EFCA is passed, and unions are organized all through Virginia, are employees suddenly going to have to join the unions that spring up in order to continue to work? No - they'll certainly be free to if they choose, but they won't be forced to join any more than they are forced now.

[nadinbrzezinski]

49. If a cashier wants to work for Ralphs in San Diego

she can join the union or not

THAT IS THE POINT

And California is NOT a RTW state

Clear enough?

[vadawg]

47. cool if it happens, but i still want a secret ballot,

and though i am in the union probuably over 50% of the people i work with are not and they are happy not to be. Their choice.

[nadinbrzezinski]

50. and they are benefiting from the union

and the secret ballot, read the damn bill, you can have it

Bilge, pure bilge

[vadawg]

52. i still dont want to have anyone come up to me and having me have to sign or not sign a card,

i dont know how simply i can put it, how about we simply allow every workforce to have a secret ballot on unionizing and then be done with it. Yeah they benefit from the union but i agree with their right not to have to join and pay dues if they want.

[nadinbrzezinski]

53. Then you quit the union, after all you have bought all the bilge

have a good day

[vadawg]

57. lol why would i quit my union, im happy with it at the moment

if i get unhappy ill quit.

[nadinbrzezinski]

60. Because they will force you to use a card check

never mind that this happens only at formation

And only if 1\3 don't request a secret ballot

As I said, READ the damn legislation

If it was that bad, management would not be fighting it tooth and nail

[vadawg]

62. as i said if im unhappy then ill quit, we stil do secret ballots eveyones happy with that

the say they do open ballots is the day i quit.

[nadinbrzezinski]

63. What part of this only applies to new unions are you obtusely missing?

aka the ones being formed, and only for that critical baby step?

[vadawg]

68. i understand that, i am still dubious that it wont be abused.

[Enrique]

30. the point is that the secret ballot elections favor management

card check makes it easier for workers to form a union.

Look who is fighting tooth and nail for the elections. Do you think they are doing this for your benefit? You think they are saying any business person who doesn't become an anti-EFCA activist "should be shot" because they care about your right to privacy? No, it's because the secret ballot election has been a tool for them to kill organizing drives.

But you seem to want the secret ballot. Ok, under EFCA you just need to convince ONE-THIRD of the workers and you can have a secret ballot election. Fair enough?

[bbinacan]

74. No it's not fair.

I shouldn't have to convince anyone that I need a secret vote.

[Touchdown]

65. The whole point of a union is an organized front.

The company holds all the cards if you are an individual. If you are among 60% of his workforce, he has to listen. When all the cards have been turned in, and management sees it, then they take notice, because they cannot fire 60% of their workforce without seriously affecting the bottom line, especially if they work in high skilled work that they train for specifically to benefit the employer (like a phone company).

A union organizer administers a card check, usually over a couple of weeks. He keeps them under lock and key from management at the union's district office. If a manager sees them, then the card check is invalid and must be started again. Once everybody in the site has had an opportunity to sign a card, then the boom falls on management. NOT UNTIL THEN.

[Touchdown]

58. Then after this bill passes, tell all your co-workers to agree

... to use secret ballots when voting in a union.

Right now, demand secret ballots for a union vote to your company CEO, the only person in your business who can grant it to you. See how long you keep your job.

[backscatter712]

5. NO! That's the anti-union deceptive spin on EFCA!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Employee_Free_Choice_Act

It allows the workers to bypass the secret-ballot election process in favor of card-check IF THEY CHOOSE TO. They can also choose to do a secret ballot election if they want, but usually, workers will not want to do that, because that opens the door for union-busters to intimidate workers and reach into their bag of dirty tricks.

What EFCA does is enable workers to unionize more easily and bypass a lot of the red-tape and bullshit that unscrupulous employers use to block unionization and intimidate workers.

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. Sent my note

[Belial]

29. What is free choice again??

"This important bill would give more workers the chance to form unions and negotiate for better pay, benefits, and job security. And that will make things better for all of us."

I don't buy into this crap.. people are FREE to form unions now.. so what is REALLY the point of this? Yeah Yeah Yeah.. I know.. we get vacations.. non eighty hour weeks.. etc etc. We also used to have slavery.. no running water and people read by candles.. The ONLY thing that will be free about this is intimidation..

[DireStrike]

31. Exactly what the business leaders who oppose this so vigorously are saying!

They are so deeply concerned with the freedom of their workers that they banded together in solidarity with their workers, to protect them from intimidation by the big bad unions.

They've spent so much campaigning against this because it's just such a pointless thing that could never affect the workers except as an annoyance. NOBODY wants this to pass except union organizers who are looking forward to the opportunity to bully hapless workers.

[Belial]

34. This is nothing but political payback.. it sucks the big one

and MAYBE when we get through paying everyone off we can do something to actually help some folks.. what a concept..

[Pithlet]

43. Political payback?

??

[bread_and_roses]

54. are you serious? people get fired for trying to organize in at least 1/4 of campaigns

that's not intimidation? Please do some reading and educate yourself.

This is "freedom?"

Cornell University scholar Kate Bronfenbrenner studied hundreds of organizing campaigns and found that:

Ninety-two percent of private-sector employers, when faced with employees who want to join together in a union, force employees to attend closed-door meetings to hear anti-union propaganda; 80 percent require supervisors to attend training sessions on attacking unions; and 78 percent require that supervisors deliver anti-union messages to workers they oversee.
Seventy-five percent hire outside consultants to run anti-union campaigns, often based on mass psychology and distorting the law.
Half of employers threaten to shut down partially or totally if employees join together in a union.
In 25 percent of organizing campaigns, private-sector employers illegally fire workers because they want to form a union.
Even after workers successfully form a union, in one-third of the instances, employers do not negotiate a contract.

Just ask yourself, in what other arena have employers been so concerned about workers' rights? Did they give us the eight hour day? Workers' Compensation? Weekends? Overtime? Family leave? or anything else out of the goodness of their hearts or their "concern" for workers' rights?

[GiveMeFreedom]

70. Excellent post , great logic! n/t

[Touchdown]

55. And a second election, among other things...

You've been conditioned to ignore.

Under the new law... Employees can elect to have a card check or an election with private ballots. 50% plus 1 worker automatically makes the workplace a union shop. Nothing more democratic than that.

Right now. Employees that are being organized are "invited" to mandatory meetings where speakers, powerpoints and videos are shown about the evils of unions. Then, when everyone has been properly hannitized, a card check happens. 50%+1 means that... Wait for it... It's not over!!!!!
A second election must take place, because the business can challenge it with the NLRB. The NLRB sets up a special election, with the affected management providing oversight on the "secret ballot election", which they control who comes in to vote, and who has to work through their lunch break until 2pm, and voting ends at 1:30.It also happens up to 8 weeks after the card check, leaving plenty of time to repeat those anti-union videos until the hannitization sinks in.

Imagine if you just voted for Barack Obama on Nov. 4th. Are you SURE you want Barack Obama as President? Well let's make sure of that, shall we? 6 weeks later, in order for your vote to count, and elect him President, you had to go back in and vote for him again. No other election in this country require two elections to make the people's choice official.

Also, your 40 hour work week, min wage are just a congress vote from being repealed. Shouldn't you have another voice? Who's going to listen to just you? Now, who's going to listen to a thousand of you at your factory? Oh; and that 2 week vacation? There is no law guaranteeing it to you, and can be taken away whenever your employer sees fit... like say, when the unemployment rate reaches 12%. Where are you going to go? Nobody says you HAVE TO WORK HERE!

[Omaha Steve]

32. K&R!

Was so busy posting I almost missed this. :-)

[upi402]

41. Thanks for the post. I've written and emailed

and hope it passes - Rachel Maddow did a good spot on MSNBC about it. Actually, it was about the anti-union propaganda lies being spun by Republicants.

[bread_and_roses]

48. Employee Free Choice Act simply gives WORKERS the right to choose ballot or majority sign-up!

I put this in reply to OP only because there are too many upthread who don't get this to respond to each one.

The Employee Free Choice Act is simply an AMENDMENT to current labor law and the corrects a fatal flaw in current law, which gives employers the right to demand a "secret ballot" election even when the workers choose majority sign-up.

Majority sign-up is legal, has been legal, is used, is not revolutionary. The flaw is that somehow the EMPLOYER got the right to choose an election no matter if the WORKERS chose majority sign-up.

Anyone wondering about this should ask themselves, WHO SHOULD GET TO CHOOSE? THE EMPLOYERS OR THE WORKERS? Since when have employers been more concerned about workers' rights than the workers themselves? Since when? And about what other issue have they been so "protective" of their workers rights? What about the fact that they are so concerned about workers' rights and "secret" ballots that they spend hundreds of thousands finding out exactly who is doing what, saying what, organizing what so they can - surprise! - fire them if they support the union!

Support the Employee Free Choice Act if you care about workers' rights, about human rights, and about the welfare of our families and communities, which are not going to make it on cheap labor.

[nadinbrzezinski]

51. Thank you ... me still banging head

really

Union Supporter!

Not union member

[Triana]

66. Please urge your reps to support EFCA...

http://www.unionvoice.org/campaign/passefca

[Lost in CT]

67. I have to admit I think this one is a loser for Democrats.

I am pro-union have read through this entire thread and I STILL have no idea the objection against secret ballots.

I confess secret ballots seem so American to me I question what possible advantage putting up any barriers to them would solve.

Lets get rid of the right to work bullshit and focus on American jobs for Americans....

and dump the no secret ballot inside the beltway bullshit.

[MilesColtrane]

69. There is no barrier to a secret ballot decision, if that is the way the workers want to proceed.

EFCA makes the choice between an election and a card check theirs, not management's.

EFCA simply adds another, and quicker, choice for forming a union. (When a majority sign a card.)

This is important because only 20% of organizing elections succeed, even when a majority of workers have previously indicated that they want to form a union.

This low success rate is due to coercion by management, using such tactics as forced meetings with supervisors in which the workers are browbeaten, threats to close the workplace if unionization succeeds, and directly firing organizers and other pro-union workers.

[Lost in CT]

71. Thank you MilesColtrane that makes sense... you should work for congress

they could use your help explaining this.

[The2ndWheel]

72. Choice and must in the same sentence

Clever.

[ItNerd4life]

73. Question? What will stop businesses from moving overseas?

I know this is already happening, but won't this just push more businesses to do more off-shore labor?

Shouldn't this include some type of law that protects jobs from being moved overseas?

Maybe I should ask a different way. Is there a way to stop jobs from being moved off-shore?