Why is socialism a dirty word?

[BooScout]

Increasingly I see conservatives tossing out the evils of socialism when criticising the liberal agenda. I want to know what is so bad about socialism. I'm now living in a country(The UK) that is in some areas heavily peppered with aspects of socialism. We have the National Health Service, there's a safety net for those who are poorer or out of work. If you have a close relative who needs caring for then you can receive a carer's benefit that allows you to stay home and care for them, if you cannot afford housing then the local council will place you in council housing or subsidize your rent. ............and as a result we don't see homelessness here.

I just read a news report that says 1 in 50 American children will be homeless this year......and I just saw a report on a foodbank on NBC. If a little bit of socialism prevents incidences such as this then what in the world is so wrong with it?

[wtbymark]

1. Quite simply, it doesn't involve profit n/t

[Oregone]

8. Thats not entirely true

Many public owned institutions generate profit, which is distributed to the shareholders (the state).

Here is a crown corporation I get my power from. It generated almost half a billion in profit last year: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BC_Hydro

(The state also owns the car insurance, health insurance, and a variety of other large business. Some operate at profit, and others at loss)

A socialized industry can run EXACTLY like a private industry. The ONLY difference is who owns it and where the profits are going (private coffers vs public)

[tangent90]

14. Can I defend the concept of profit (a reasonable amount) and still be a DUer?

Is there something intrinsically wrong with a system that allows someone to obtain a product, add some value to it through labor and recoup the effort through a higher price?

[B Whale]

21. No, however there is

something wrong with a system that views that (fanatically) as the only way anything can happen. And there is a problem when that process impacts negatively on peoples lives.

I think most socialists in Europe would class themselves as democratic socialists whereby they believe in the free market, but a state that negates the bad effects of that, and ensures that businesses that feed off society pay enough back in taxes etc so that national health services and council housing can help the most needy.

[readmoreoften]

32. "Some value" isn't added to it from labor. It's value originates from labor.

Obtaining a product and "adding some value to it" is not how capitalism works. That's how over-operated cottage industries work. Ex. I buy tiles and handpaint them. That is a worker making money for him or herself by adding value to the item and earning extra for his labor. That's a laborer with a direct relationship to his customer. That's not capitalism. Capitalism is the extraction of profit from labor.

Let's say we're in the industrial era. There is no "original product." Laborers mine the tin, design the factory, build the factory, run the factory, fix the machines, do the bookkeeping. What does the capitalist do? He funds the project. But where does he get that money? There are a few possibilities:

(1) He inherited it from his father, who was a capitalist? But this isn't an answer. That begs an infinite regression.
(2) He inherited it from his family, who were royalty. This means that capitalism is the perpetuation of social power by king/birthright.
(3) He has stolen the money or conned the money.
(4) He was very frugal and saved his salary as a laborer, pennies lead to dollars and eventually he had enough money to buy his first factory and his first mine.
(5) He was very frugal and saved his salary as a laborer, and eventually a bank (where do banks get their money?) gave him a loan.

The last two are the fantasies that Americans like best. But the idea that laborers can "save their wages" is as difficult now as it was 200 years ago. This is because capital makes its money through suppressing the wages of labor. Unless the capitalist intends to risk his business only buying materials when they are at their very lowest in comparison to other capitalists, profit must be made by driving wages down. The laborer will always take less, because he needs the labor to survive. Capitalists have an incentive to band together to keep wages as low as possible so they can make as much money as possible.

The existence of communism/socialism was a check in this system of driving wages down. The workers had a means of revolt. The decline of communism led Reagan and his predecessors to suppress labor--eventually leading to the crisis we're in now.

There are a few examples of people with talent and good ideas who "get rich": Actors. Musicians. Writers. Every now and then some scrappy mom invents something like AIRBORNE and gets a corporation to produce it (with suppressed wages). Oh wait. Airborne has been discovered as a complete scam and it's inventor a con artist.

I have no problem with a laborer profiting from his own hard work. Hell, neither did Marx. He said that was the dream. But wages have been pushed to the point of global slavery through capitalist's access to state military apparatuses, death squads, and police. Heck, the drug trade is a major source of income to modern capitalism. But we're close to the end game. Maybe we won't reach it for another 50 years, but we're close. Average people lost the entire earth, and capitalists own it almost entirely. The problem now is that they've taken so much and they've consolidated their ranks to such a low number, that no one can afford to buy the products that they themselves make.

It's an unsustainable system.

[Baikonour]

34. There is a problem when...

the process in which you receive said profit (capitalism) ultimately leads to corporatism (fascism).

[maxsolomon]

2. ask Eugene Debs

the word has been demonized by wealth & power for 100 years in Murka.

[Oregone]

3. There isn't a damn thing wrong with a mixed economy

And the state can make a fortune off of certain socialized industries. Its just negatively connotated in America, after years of the investor class slandering the term (to ensure all industry remains privately owned).

[Delphinus]

23. That reminds me of something

I've heard over and over lately - which explains why I can't remember it! But it's something about public losses but private profits.

[Oregone]

25. Thats called "lemon socialism"

Its what they do in the states. Socialize the losses, privatize the profits. They use socialism as a model to absorb private industries losses, yet they never ask for a share of the profits. The problem is that Americans cannot conceive that the government could have an ownership stake in a business, and generate profit from it. Instead, we pour a ton of money helping out struggling businesses, and ask for nothing substantial in return.

[KG]

4. coz everybody would have to drive the same kind of car.

i read it right here on DU. :eyes:

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

5. That'd be the clown car to end all clown cars. -nt

[ReliantJ]

6. and two channel TV's.

But yeah it's dirty

[muntrv]

7. Because it doesn't give corporations total control.

[PM7nj]

9. Because most Americans think of socialism as gulags and bread lines. nt

[marauding liberal]

10. Because the corporate media tells us it is.

[billyoc]

11. Because you're one of the few and far between Americans that has ever read a book.

[tanngrisnir3]

12. There are no dirty words.

[marmar]

13. A century-old corporatist brainwashing campaign.....

n/t

[Celtic_88]

15. Why is socialism a dirty word

Socialism is Not working in the UK. I grew up there . NHS was
great until the 80', no more it's now a mess.  Private insured
get taking first same Hospital same doctor Months earlier than
a NHS patient I know I was the PATIENT. 
Council housing is getting like the Projects here, filthy  no
repairs  done, yards never taken care of,  I grew up in
council housing I loved it, but then people cared. They dont
now.
And who pays for all this. NHS is taken out of every Paycheck
so everybody pays Accept the tossers on the dole, who Don't
want to work Like wise here. 
Asylum seekers have taken over.  I saw lots of homeless on the
streets of London, Birmingham, Manchester, Glasgow and
Edinburgh. 
cheers . 

I'm a Red Clydesider by the way.
 

[B Whale]

26. The NHS is better now than

ever. It was horrifcally underfunded under the Tories but since 97 (as much as i hate much of what New Labour have done, or haven't done) has seen massive improvements and massive investment.

I know there are problems (major ones) but it still provides the best care for the elderly, poor and vulnerable. It needs much more but i have seen huge improvements. We just now need to get PFIs out of the NHS so we can get the things clean again.

Totally agree on council housing though. Another thing killed by the Tories and not revived under Labour. There are now nearly 2 million on the waiting list and rising.

"Asylum seekers have taken over" Mate, come on, this ain't the Daily Mail.

BTW, my Dad played a few Gigs in the red star club in Glasgow in the 70s... loved it

[ThomWV]

16. God dam it! Why on earth is everyone letting Republicans frame this discussion?

Socialism is not creeping into our nation. What you are seeing is Democracy fighting back against tyrannical Fascism - and don't let them call it anything other than that. It just pisses me off no end - they call it socialism because that's a traditionally dirty word and so now every god damned thing Democrats do is Socialism God dam it - it is not! This is creeping Democracy - that is what it is. Let's at least call it by the right god damned name.

[Celtic_88]

20. Socialism is not creeping into our nation

I agree to a certain extent with all you said. The Democrats need to get back to the people who voted for them and stop trying to outspend Republicans. We need a health system for everybody ,but don't use the NHS as an example. I want a politician any politician that will do what he says he would do, when he was looking for my vote.

[Mnemosyne]

17. Ignorance. n/t

[espiral]

18. re: OP

I think that a lot of it can be traced to the Victorian era
over here. The railroads, Manifest Destiny and the Gilded Age
are what really set the wheels turning. Industrialization and
the automobile poured another ton of kerosene on the whole
thing. Before that, this country had mostly been a sleepy
little patchwork of yeoman farmers. How quickly things
changed.

[Dukkha]

19. cold war propoganda

to many uninformed Americans socialism = communism or totalitarianism.

but many Europeans would beg to differ.

[pacalo]

27. That's my answer, too.

We were taught in school during the 1960s that everything-Russian was "evil" -- particularly, Russia's communist/socialist government.

Btw, socialism doesn't allow property ownership.

:rofl:

[B Whale]

22. Viva socialism. The NHS is

Britain's greatest acheivement. Forget the empire, arts, literature or science or any other jingoistic nonsense, creating a health service free at the point of need for everyone is the greatest of them all.

Socialism is not a dirty word, it means a committment to society and the people within it, every one.

I think in the USA it is code for communism by the right so negative and even here in the UK is probably not used commonly since the hard left lost credibility on the 70s and 80s.

btw Nye Bevin founded the NHS and was born not far from where you are now. Enjoy wales...

[dflprincess]

24. Yeah, Socialism is just awful

it's why you see all those Swedes storming the U.S. embassy in Stockholm begging to be allowed to emigrate here.

That's my response whenever I hear someone act as though Socialism is an unimaginable horror.

[NC_Nurse]

28. Because people are stupid.

IMO.

[readmoreoften]

29. Because Republicans are illiterate and "liberal" doesn't scare people anymore.

I see some of these idiots saying that both Bush and Obama are socialist.

[GreenTea]

30. Only for the poor & workers it's capitalism... the rich & corporations live in government socialism

[readmoreoften]

33. That's not socialism. That's oligarchy.

They protect one another to a point but they'll slash one another's throats as quickly as they'll slash ours.

[upi402]

31. "Why is socialism a dirty word?" A: the corporate news media n/t