GM delays innovative new diesel truck engine

[DainBramaged]

General Motors' deteriorating financial situation has caused the company to delay one of the most advanced engines that it has ever designed, a 4.5-liter diesel for light-duty trucks. "We have to make tough decisions right now," said GM Powertrain spokeswoman Susan Garavaglia.

Truck enthusiasts were eagerly awaiting the engine, which would have started production next fall at GM's plant in Tonawanda, N.Y. The engine has unique cylinder heads that eliminate the intake and exhaust manifolds. Its lightweight block has advanced castings for the crankshaft-bearing journals and oil-circulation system.

GM had planned to install the engine in the Chevrolet Silverado and GMC Sierra pickups. The result would have been a fuel-efficient truck priced for less than the heavy duty diesel-powered trucks available now.

The move comes three weeks before a U.S. auto task force is set to determine whether the automaker deserves an additional $16.6 billion in federal aid. GM, kept afloat by $13.4 billion in U.S. loans received so far, is trying to shed brands, sell assets and curb spending as it battles a worldwide collapse in auto sales after four profitless years.

Selling the rights?

GM has been awarded several patents for the engine design, and early tests have shown the new motor to be as smooth and quiet as a gasoline engine. Development of the engine was far along when the decision was made to put the program on hold.

Rights to the engine may be sold to another company, Garavaglia said.

If GM decides to revive the engine, it would likely take at least a year for it to enter production. Meanwhile, GM will not be out of the diesel truck business. The company will continue to offer the 6.6-liter Duramax engine in heavy-duty pickups and modify it as necessary to meet tougher emissions standards.

GM also has just launched Two Mode hybrid versions of the Silverado and Sierra, which get an EPA rated 21 mpg city and 22 mpg highway. The 4.5-liter diesel would have raised the trucks' fuel economy into the mid to high 20s mpg.

Last month, GM scrapped plans to build an engine plant for the upcoming Chevrolet Volt plug-in hybrid and Cruze small car. Instead, the engines will initially come from a European factory while an existing factory in Flint, Mich., is retooled to make the new engines.

GM Powertrain Group Vice President Tom Stephens recently said that all of GM's future production plans are constantly being re-evaluated.

http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090311/ANA02/903109970/1181 (in full, subscription only)

[n2doc]

1. (sigh)

I guess teh stupid hasn't be wrung out of GM yet. I suppose Toyota will have to make one first before the big three decide it is worth doing.

[Auggie]

2. Tragically sad...

though I suspect there's more to the story than they're telling us.

[DainBramaged]

3. Tooling costs (for those who especially think god ToyHonNis would dream of doing this)

HUGE expense to begin tooling for a major new engine design. Then the pre-production testing and training of the line personal. It will happen, much to the consternation of the ToyHonNis lovers.

[Fumesucker]

5. ToyHonNis tends to crank out new engine designs a lot more rapidly than GForChry

And let's not even begin to talk about motorcycle engine designs and who innovates more rapidly, American or Japanese.

[DainBramaged]

7. Really, you have access to their design cycle and concept to completion time lines?

I'd say you must be a soothsayer than. Could you give us some examples?????
Oh and an afterthought, what's the BEST SELLING MOTORCYCLE in America of say the past, oh, 20 years?

Can I give you a little hint?

[Fumesucker]

11. Harley is the best selling motorcycle strictly due to image..

Guys in particular want to look "bad" and the Harley has that image.

When it comes strictly to performance, the KawHonYamSuz bikes are megaparsecs ahead of Harley, even the V-Rod.

I used to work in a chrome shop, we did a great deal of Harley parts, our name for them was Harley-Ferguson tractorcycles.

And the Japanese car makers do make far more completely new automobiles than the domestics, I haven't paid a great deal of attention in the last few years but the small block Chevy engine was still being used not all that long ago, it was first introduced in 1955, that makes the design 54 years old right now.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

13. To be fair, Harleys tend to hold their value reasonably well compared to others.

So that's one point in their favor.

[DainBramaged]

29. So what

nothing you said gives the Japanese any more of a technology edge over Harley or GM. Harley owners don't buy the bike for image (myself included going back to the 70's AFTER I ditched my Triumph 6500), we buy HD BECAUSE we won't buy rice, and of the 3 bikes I owned over 30+ years, NONE EVER had a major failure of ANY kind. So don't try that straw man with me. Just because the Japanese make killer crotch rockets doesn't make the owners any smarter than Harley owners, and from what I see EVERYDAY the crotch rocket riders drive for shit.

Regarding the Japanese, other than the hybrid, when was the last innovate design from Toyota or Honda? Do they even make a performance or image car any more (NO) and if you examine the current V6 in the Yotas, you'll find out that THEIR design is over 20 years old.

Regarding you attempted slam of the small block Chevy, NO engine in history, has been made in more quantity, lasted as long in any quantity, BECAUSE of it's versatility. And if you don't think getting 406 HP and 29MPG VERIFIED highway millage isn't an accomplishment, we're done arguing your silly points. Oh and as I had asked, where is the example????

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

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[PatGund]

52. *chuckle*

You mean like the Honda V6 powering my GM-built Saturn VUE???

[Lance_Boyle]

4. damn shame

I'm still waiting for a small truck with 4 doors and a 4-cylinder turbodiesel.

[Fumesucker]

6. What's a damn shame is there are small vans available through most of the rest of the world..

With four cylinder diesels.. maybe even turbodiesels, I'm not sure about that.

[DainBramaged]

8. Yup, but they would never meet our safety standards

http://cvglobal.tatamotors.com/products/scv/207diex/207diex_specs.asp

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

10. Bullshit.

Absolute hogwash and you know it. There are plenty of light vans out there with diesels that would meet American safety standards. Hell, a lot of them are models that are sold in the US already, only with diesels.

[tammywammy]

18. Or they wouldn't meet the EPA standards. n/t

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

9. Seriously.

Why the heck does a light duty truck need a 4.5 liter diesel engine? That's insane. And high 20s fuel economy for a light diesel pickup is truly pathetic.

[tangent90]

32. A 4.5 L engine isn't "light duty". It's about a 280CID for those with metricphobia

My Tacoma has a 4 banger with plenty of power. Even to drag our big boat or travel trailer around.

[CRF450]

39. I have a crew cab, 4x4 Dakota, 25mpg average is a hell of alot better than 16mpg!

I'd give up one of my nuts for a nice turbo diesel to replace the current 4.7 v8.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

42. This is why I don't get what they're doing.

They're building a diesel that's as inefficient as a gas engine.

[CRF450]

44. Diesels are more efficient.

The EPA has an agenda to keep us out of diesel cars and light duty trucks, I dunno what it is, but they dont want us to have the great cars their are on the other side of the Atlantic.

That diesel engine GM is holding off on is smaller than what heavy duty trucks come with I believe. The new Camaro thats coming out this month will be getting 30mpg HWY with a 420hp v8, my 01 Trans Am gets the same thing. I remember seeing an episode of Top Gear where they got 40mpg HWY from a high powered v8 diesel luxury car. Why dont we have something like that? The EPA and Bush lords have kept it away from us I say.

I must add that car engines from the factory are choked up to hell to meet emmision and noise standards. You can add an aftermarket exhaust/intake system, and get a better tune so they're not running as rich, to get better fuel milage. And the gains are VERY noticable!

[vinylsolution]

12. Ths is a prime example of the....

.... 'bigger is always better' Baby Boomer thinking that has led GM to the brink of extinction.

2.5 liters is plenty for a turbodiesel, that the Canyon/Colorado trucks desperately need.

250 - 300 lb/ft of torque, 30 - 35mpg, and everybody's happy. This is what light truck customers have wanted for years.

Obvious to many of us here, but apparently not to the lemmings employed as product directors at GM.

So long, guys....

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

14. More to the point, those are engines they already have.

And they're not selling vehicles here that use those engines. Only in GM World is a light diesel powered truck that gets 20mpg an "innovation."

[vinylsolution]

15. Trucks abroad

Check out these Ford and http://www.toyota.co.uk/cgi-bin/toyota/bv/generic_editorial.jsp?edname=HL2_Explore_Eng&zone=Zone%20HILUX&navRoot=toyota_1024_root">Toyota web sites to see the Ranger and Tacoma (AKA HiLux) pickups on sale in Britain, with small turbodiesel engines.

Note how the Brits get a cool 21st century-looking Ranger, while we still have to make do with Fred Flintstone's 1991 model.

The products exist, but the will to raise US consumers' expectations, apparently does not.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

16. I used to live in the UK and thought about buying a diesel hilux...

...when I thought I might be needing a huge vehicle for hauling around a sound system. They get good mileage, certainly much better than this GM 20mpg nonsense.

[vinylsolution]

20. The diesel revolution....

.... is being deliberately stifled here in the US. I suspect the oil industry prefers it that way, and leans heavily on manufacturers to 'avoid' importing small diesel cars and trucks.

Being an expat Brit myself, I never tire of telling folks here about my 1991 Renault Clio diesel, that got 55mpg, day in, day out. And it was hardly state-of-the-art technology.



Almost 20 years later, and there's still nothing remotely comparable on sale in the US. No Ford Fiestas, no GM Corsas, no Renaults, Peugeots, SEATs, VW Polos, Skodas, Nissan Micras, nothing.

[cabluedem]

21. The VW Jetta had a diesel available way back when. Didnt sell well. nt

[tammywammy]

46. I get 42 mpg in my 06 Beetle TDI. n/t

[cabluedem]

28. You can get 20+ MPG with a 4.3 liter V6 in a GM pickup right now....

and Diesels cost lots more to repair when they bust down as well.

[DainBramaged]

31. Great point, the 4.3 liter V-6 is standard in the work truck

and that is the version they should have put in the Colorado instead of that crappy 5cyl.

[cabluedem]

53. I put 309,000 miles on my 97' Chevy Pickup with no engine work at all. nt

[tammywammy]

19. Do those engines pass the strict EPA standards in the US for diesels? n/t

[cabluedem]

23. No they dont, but they could be made to, from what I have read. n/t

[tammywammy]

25. At how much cost?

And the EPA limits the overall percentage of diesels a manufacturer can sell. Good luck getting the EPA to change that. In the US diesel = dirty, nasty, evil.

[cabluedem]

26. I don't know. I do know that truckers are going to have to update all thier Diesels by 2014.

At that time, all heavy duty Diesel motors will have to be 2010 designs on up or they
will not pass the inspections, no matter what year the truck was made.

[Ikonoklast]

35. Only in California.

Those are CARB's rules, they only pertain to California.

http://www.arb.ca.gov/newsrel/nr121208.htm

CARB has been fairly arbitrary in the way that they implement rules regarding trucking. They have cost many a small business owner tens of thousands of dollars to upgrade their power units and employ idle reduction technology previously approved by CARB, then without discussion or explanation ruled that those technologies were no longer accepted.

Look for the costs of trucking and delivered goods in California to jump considerably if the 2014 rule stands, as currently the 2010 rules add $10,000 to the cost of an engine.

The 2014 rules also cover idle reduction, APU's, reefers, and even what type of tire you must use.


Many smaller trucking companies will drop California from their apportionment as costs cannot be recouped enough to justify doing business in the state, leaving only the bigger carriers to do business there. Without the competition, freight rates will rise significantly. The consumers will pay for that in the end, as those increased costs get passed on.

[vinylsolution]

40. Wow, I did not know that.

Now I'm wondering who's pulling the strings at the EPA...?

[tammywammy]

45. Diesels are held to stupid standards

In my opinion. They're compared to gasoline engines and the exhaust is completely different. The bonus is the new TDI engine from VW is super green.

[DainBramaged]

30. Idiot, did you read my explanation? No of course not, judge and drive by.

[dkofos]

17. Another STUPID MANAGEMENT DECISION

[DainBramaged]

33. Sigh, do any of you read the posts in the rest of the thread?

[dkofos]

49. WAAH

[DainBramaged]

50. Two words, and they aren't Merry Christmas, bye bye

Click.

[dkofos]

51. FUA

[cabluedem]

22. Lightweight Block translates into more of the diesel "rattle" that everyone hates about diesels. n/t

[RollWithIt]

24. I'm really starting to hope that at least Ford will survive this... but GM is just such a joke

Their entire system is upside down. Their decision making is terrible. Ford on the otherhand seems to be taking extremely aggressive stances on building a "car of tomorrow" from scratch. They're even talking about hybrid mustangs.

[cabluedem]

27. GM is no joke. I have owned Ford and Chevys' and the GM's always had bodies that held up long term.

I could not say that about the Fords, but their engines and trannies
ran well, however.

[DainBramaged]

34. One last time, the debut is DELAYED because of tooling and start up costs

do any of you understand the word DELAYED???????

[Mike 03]

36. This is sad. Even though GM is having hard times, it is exactly this kind

of R and D, and vision that can push us all through to the next level.

These are such confusing times. I know these companies are doing everything humanly possible to survive and invent great things.

It's just sad.

[Mike 03]

37. K and R. NT

[proud patriot]

41. My husband got laid off from GM two weeks ago

x(

[Mike 03]

47. Oh, I'm so sorry. My heart goes out to you and your husband.

Not too many things hurt worse than getting laid off.

It's just a nightmare.

You are both in my thoughts.

[proud patriot]

55. Thanks

He will take anything . He has an interview with Toyota
Tomorrow . Fingers crossed .

He's such a great man . He hasn't missed a day of work
in the 20 years that I have known him . Never absent
just a model employee.

If it weren't for bush's policies our business would still be
making money and he wouldn't of had to go back to work for someone else . Who can afford to have their car door dings removed anymore?

Hopefully things will turn around soon . Here in the SF
Bay Area it's very expensive to live . We have super high
prices in just about everything.

Luckily it's a moderate climate and I can Garden .

[DainBramaged]

48. I am so sorry. I hope he returns soon now that Spring and the credit markets have returned

[proud patriot]

56. He has an Interview w/ Toyota tomorrow

as a salesman he is really great, basically because he is
a genuine person who was raised by a single mother.

He's the last person to try to get over on you . Just wants
to match you with the car that you want . It's the middle guys
and the management who try to screw you w/ pops .

Fingers crossed for his interview ...

[cabluedem]

54. I am very sorry to hear that. I hope his union can help out with bills. n/t

[proud patriot]

57. He's not Union , just a salesman at a Dealership

Management came down into sales at a salary reduction
booting the sales force out completely.

He does have an interview tomorrow at a Toyota Dealership .

Fingers crossed

:)