Are Democrats still pro-union?

[readmoreoften]

Poll question: Are Democrats still pro-union?

Sorry. Fresh out of "other" or "third way".

If you're against, please explain. Heck, if you're for, go ahead and explain too if you like.

[pleah]

1. I am all for the Unions.

:)

[Wickerman]

2. Can add an "Explain Why" for those who feel the need to vot against? n/t

[readmoreoften]

16. Added. /nt

[FiveGoodMen]

3. There are lots of jobs in this world that need to be done but don't require extensive training

Without unions, the people doing those jobs will be expendable and dirt poor.

I want someone to pick up my garbage and I don't want him or her to have trouble paying for a house.

[Uzybone]

4. Is this a serious question?

Why would anyone be against the right to organize?

[readmoreoften]

Ask the 1 "no" vote.

I've seen anti-union sentiment on DU. I know I'm not the only one. Unfortunately, anti-union folks probably won't admit it because it sounds to "harsh". They are okay with unions--so long as they don't ask for anything, or ask them to join, or ask them to strike, or make any waves, or take any dues, etc....

[TahitiNut]

5. I'm an independent liberal ... but I answered anyway.

Most of my career was in management ... and I'm totally pro-union.

[TBF]

24. My parents were union workers. I didn't completely understand

why until I became management as an adult. Then you find out for sure why unions are needed.

[TahitiNut]

35. Absolutely. I traveled a similar path.

I sorta 'knew' and then, after some years of experience, I KNEW.

[anonymous171]

6. A Democrat has to be pro-union. Otherwise they are just a liberal republican. nt

[onehandle]

7. Democrats or DUers?

DUers opinions will be pretty solidly pro-union.

Or else.

[readmoreoften]

15. In the past there was some anti-union sentiment. I'm wondering if it still exists.

Just curious. I think people on the fence have gotten far more pro-union since the economy crashed.

[Touchdown]

58. In the past? Like yesterday?

There was plenty of it, with that "secret ballot" red herring in the EFCA thread.

[readmoreoften]

62. More like in the "past" twenty minutes. Sorry, just trying to be gracious.

Not that I try very hard.... :evilgrin:

[blue_onyx]

51. DU doesn't seem solidly pro-union to me

Read any post about GM and you'll see a lot of anti-unionism.

[HelenWheels]

8. Unions are as American as anything I can think of

To be anti-union is to be anti-worker.

[JuniperLea]

9. Many of our labor laws can be directly attributed to the unions

Eight-hour work days, forty-hour work weeks... the things we can and cannot ask in an interview... the list is staggering.

We owe unions a lot.

[Hippo_Tron]

10. I am for unions but they have very little political power these days

Democrats are mostly still pro-union. The problem is that Independents and Republicans are not and in order to sway enough Senators to vote for cloture on the EFCA more Independents and Republicans need to become pro-union. The Democratic Party is somewhat responsible for union membership decline with its support of NAFTA. But the main culprits are the blue collar/working class people that voted for Reagan and Bush against their own economic interests.

[petronius]

11. How about "pro-union in principle but some unions do really stupid things"?

I'm in favor of laws that protect or expand the right to organize, but I reserve the right to call my union filthy names when it pisses me off...

[Hippo_Tron]

12. Being pro-union doesn't inherently mean supporting every decision of every union

It means that you think that on the whole it is better to have unions than not to have unions.

[petronius]

18. Right - that's the position I was describing. My thinking is that a lot of the

supposed anti-union sentiment around here is really expressions of dissatisfaction with particular unions or union decisions...

[readmoreoften]

26. Yes but it really depends on what the criticism is.

I criticized the Teamsters for letting our guys cross our picket line "if they felt like it." I criticize my own union in a million different ways. But most people seem to criticize unions based on the spin of union-busting campaigns. When I was on strike the management told AP that we earned $50K a year. We earned $19K a year and they were counting any and every theoretical benefit possible. Of course people "didn't support us." But they were scammed. And we were crushed, in small part because of a knee-jerk reaction on the part of media consumers.

[petronius]

31. I agree with that too. It's one thing to be thoughtfully critical of a union

(or of any organization), it's another thing to latch on to every smear going to mask a general disdain. And, if people lean a certain way, they're more willing to accept agenda-driven complaints and pretend they're being thoughtful and reasonable...

[Touchdown]

65. Ok, here's an example. My EVP, who is a half assed kind of guy...

Told me to go to an EFCA meeting with a district rep to go over our letter writing campaign. He didn't tell me where, but that usually is at the AFL-CIO building across town. It wasn't. It was at our own local 4 blocks away from work. So I went to the AFL building, found that there was no meeting, and luckily she had a spreadsheet that my local had a meeting at my hall. So I waste gas going back to where I was.

My Idiot EVP is in my union, so ALL UNIONS SUCK!!!!

;)

[readmoreoften]

13. Oh I agree with that. You can get pissed off at your union without being anti-union.

You can be pissed off at the US without being anti-American. You just try to make it better.

[Deja Q]

14. The only problem with unions is the pigeonholing of workers.

But to prevent unfair exploitation, they still serve a purpose. I'd rather they not be needed and both employees and employers play fair and ethically.

[scarletwoman]

17. Your poll choices don't match your subject line. "Democrats" can mean different things.

Your poll is really about how many DUers are pro-union. That has little to do with Democrats, since not all of us identify with the Democratic Party.

Furthermore, if the designation "Democrats" encompasses our elected officials with a "D" after their names, you would find that there are plenty of such "Democrats" who do NOT support unions. There are plenty of "pro-business" (aka corporatist) Democratic politicians who would throw unions under the bus without so much as blinking.

I voted "yes" in your poll, but that has nothing to do with how "Democrats" would vote.

sw

[TahitiNut]

19. DUers seem appallingly anti-UAW and anti-NEA.

It's disgusting. :puke:

[readmoreoften]

21. So long as unions aren't making demands, right?

Great in theory, but come on! I heard you all make $200,000 a year! I'd kill to make that! You're "whiny". :sarcasm:

[TahitiNut]

33. Yup. They're STILL peddling that $57/hour LIE. It's testimony to how STUPID the audience is.

Unfuckingreal.

[TBF]

27. Alot of mis-information from the media I suppose.

It didn't help when Obama started talking about "sacrifice" because you know it isn't going to be the CEO's sacrificing.

[readmoreoften]

30. You better believe it.

If people sacrifice anymore they're going to be in rags.

[Touchdown]

60. Add CWA to that.

When everybody was angry at AT&T for installing NSA spy equipment in their switches, anybody associated with them, including the employees, who need the job, were just as culpable and evil as the company for not taking a moral stand and quitting. Especially CWA members who work on the network.

[MrSlayer]

20. As a Union member you bet your ass I'm pro-Union.

The benefits that Unions have provided in the past and continue to provide today have been listed many times.

[Mike 03]

22. Yes, absolutely

I just bookmarked "Powell's Books" as the new bookstore I'm going to order books from. I learned the other night from Omaha Steve that this is the only unionized bookstore in the country.

Goodbye Barnes and Noble.

[Fresh_Start]

23. I was 'look for the union label' before it was fashionable

because I realized 25 years ago, when I bought cheap foreign goods I was contributing to the loss of good jobs in the US

[Jackpine Radical]

25. Are unions still pro-Democrat?

I get flashbacks to about 1970 when it was hard-hats versus hippies.

[TBF]

29. That's a very real issue. There are many union workers now who

identify with republicans largely due to cultural issues (particularly religion). They end up voting against their economic interest. The question is whether "democrats" are interested in them. I know leftists are, not sure about the centrist-dems.

[fed_up_mother]

28. I answered pro-union because I think unions helped build this country

and because I think they "especially" have their place in non-skilled or blue collar work.

Unfortunately, I think a lot of the bad perception of unions comes from unions protecting employees - like bad teachers - who should be fired.

And if I thought unions protected lousy workers like some of the lazy civil service employees in my community, I would also be weary of unions. There has to be a middle ground between unions that protect bad employees and employers that can shit all over their employees. KWIM?

By the way, I don't mean to suggest that most union workers are lazy. Far from it. However, i do believe that when unions protect bad employees it creates a very bad public perception problem that the right can take great advantage of.

[readmoreoften]

32. Why do they "especially" have their place in non-skilled, blue collar work?

Service employees, teachers, nurses, writers, performers, tech? I'm not sure why they need unions any less. How are you so sure that these "bad" employees that are protected are bad and not disliked by management for organizing? How many "bad" corporate flunkies skate because they're the boss's nephew or racquetball buddy? I've also noticed that people deemed "lazy" are those who work 8 hours a day and clock out, as opposed to un-unionized people forced to take work home and take pay cuts who are lauded for what "hard workers" they are.

There is no third way or middle ground. That happens in the negotiating room between the union reps and the management. Anything else is always a union busting campaign.

[TBF]

34. That's how I look at it as well. I worked as a paralegal for several

years and then became management (in both law firm and corporate legal environments). I learned just how little bosses respected their employees, and even more strongly how little they wanted to pay them. Unless they really, really liked them personally - which encourages the back-biting, ass-kissing, and other attractive behaviors rampant in corporations nationwide. I actually felt less "us vs. them" before I became a manager and found out exactly what they were saying behind closed doors.

[ret5hd]

36. The old "unions protect lazy workers" canard.

Did you know that a union is REQUIRED, under FEDERAL LAW, to represent the people that they represent?

Think of it kind of like a pre-paid lawyer. What sanctions do you think should be imposed on a lawyer that has agreed to represent you and you have pre-paid, but then he gets into court and says, "hell, fed-up-mother is guilty as sin, yer honor".

[fed_up_mother]

37. Which is why unions get a bad rep with the public.

A lousy employee should have the services of an attorney - not an entire union defending him. I spent two years fighting administration fighting a teacher union trying to get rid of a bad teacher. We won - make that the STUDENTS won - but only because the teacher finally gave up the fight. I'm sure her union would still be defending her sorry ass.

[ret5hd]

38. A union protects a "lazy worker" in arbitration...

a union rep (usually not a lawyer), an employer rep (usually at least lawyer training), and witnesses in front of a "judge" (an individual agreed to and paid for by both sides)

If the company can't convince this "judge" that the employee deserves to be fired (the corporate equivalent of the death penalty) whose, exactly, fault is that? The union rep for doing his job, or the company for not documenting problems? Hell, the "lazy" person in this scenario is the employees management: They couldn't beat an (usually) untrained hack off the shop floor with a trained lawyer over a question as simple as "Did the guy DO HIS JOB?" Don't make me laugh! The laziest people in any company I've worked at is Management. And it shows each and every time they expose their lack of work ethics in front of an arbitrator (that "judge" guy I was talking about).

:rofl:

[NavyDavy]

39. i guess we found the 1 anti union vote hehehe

:P

[fed_up_mother]

40. Nope that wasn't me. Any moderator, I suppose, could check.

Unions helped make this country a much better place for workers, and will make this country a better place for workers, but I wouldn't agree with everything just because a union supports it.

[NavyDavy]

41. i know... i was just playing around

[ret5hd]

43. But you would support a union that didn't do its job tho, huh?

[fed_up_mother]

45. I don't support any union or any level of management protecting a lousy teacher.

Period. It shouldn't take TWO YEARS to get a teacher out of the classroom. And, yeah, the good ol' boy system (administration) can be just as responsible for protecting a bad teacher as any union.

[ret5hd]

46. So an employee that is accused of being "lazy" deserves no representation...

So tell me: What, exactly, is the use of a union at all in your little world?

[fed_up_mother]

48. To set some standards, negotiate contracts, pay and working conditions, etc.

But getting rid of that teacher was a real eye opener. On one side were the teachers who cared about the kids (of which there were many, many more) , and on the other side were the teachers who cared about protecting jobs at all costs. And it didn't come at any great surprise which teachers were on which side. The lazy bums tended to side with the lazy bum. (Although in her case, she wasn't just lazy, she was also abusive.)

[ret5hd]

50. And we all know, management is so unbiased as to who is "lazy"...

A union WOULDN'T BE THERE to "set standards, negotiate contracts, pay and working conditions, etc" if the union can't or won't represent the people that pay dues!

And this is all still glossing over the fact that a union is required by FEDERAL LAW to represent those same people! A union rep could end up personally liable if he didn't give a member fair representation. A union local can be liable if it with holds representation, bankrupting the entire local!

Maybe we should scrap federal labor law and just get fed-up-mother to tell us who is deserving of employment!
:rofl:

[fed_up_mother]

52. Your attitude is exactly why so many people distrust teacher unions.

Any inquiries into "why" we went after this teacher? Nope, but you sure did jump to protect "the system."

By the way, I understand that teachers get legal representation as they should. However, it's real easy to see which teachers actually care more about their profession than their union in the midst of such controversy. The good teachers wanted her gone just as much as we did although they obviously couldn't go out and say that on tv. The bad teachers (thankfully, a small minority) couldn't defend her enough to the local newspaper, school board, blah, blah, blah. After all, they were depending on that system to protect their sorry asses, as well.

Good night.

[MattBaggins]

56. No one wants to enquire as to why for a very simple reason.

You story would be no different than any of the bitter disputes that occur every time the subject of divorce and father rights comes up. There are two sides to every dispute and in these types of cases; oodles of melodrama.

[readmoreoften]

59. I was terminated for being a "bad teacher" in retaliation for striking.

After a labor strike at a university, where I had DOCUMENTED proof of teaching excellence, I was fired, first for "not being prepared to be a teaching assistant" and later for "not being a positive member of the team." I filed a grievance based on the fact that I had since been promoted to faculty at the very same university (under their noses) and that I had been called back due to teach for a second semester due to student request.

Regardless, the university management decided that I was still not fit to be a teaching assistant--even though I had been promoted to faculty and currently teaching more advanced courses. The university knew I could not compete with the 20 million dollar union busting law firm and now my case sits on file at the United Nations. I lost $11K in wages and could not afford to feed myself, even though I was employed.

Way to support workers.

[fed_up_mother]

71. I'm sorry that happened to you.

[MattBaggins]

54. Maybe it should take two years to get a teacher fired

They are the number one target of right wingers and "wounded" parents who are mad that Billy got a failing grade. If there is a group that needs protection from every rabid parent in town; it is the teachers.

[readmoreoften]

61. You better believe it. Waaa, she taught evolution to Billy.

Waaa. she's a "sexual deviant"--we photographer her coming out of the gay bar.

I had bad teachers too. Some of them were the most popular.

[fed_up_mother]

68. No, she was abusive.

And SHE was the one with the bible sitting on her desk all day trying to innoculate herself by becoming friends with a couple of "christian" moms. Her little christian act was part of the drama that got a few parents on her side until she actually threw a trash can at a student in full view of some of their kids.

[Touchdown]

63. Double standard. Rich=Leisure time. Worker=Lazy

Yes, you have been conditioned by your corporate masters well. Keep believing what they tell you, that all workers are born and bred to serve the rich and their corporations, and if they don't do it with the proper amount of glee, subservience, and genuflection, their LAZY!

[Eryemil]

64. This n|t

[readmoreoften]

66. BINGO!

What'd I win.

[FLAprogressive]

42. are Dem pols still pro union? Some of them ...... not all.

[saltpoint]

44. This Democrat is.

And this folksong fan is, too.

And if y'all want something worth watching this weekend, rent John Sayles' MATEWAN.

[Radical Activist]

47. Most are. Not all.

Will find out who is and isn't when the Employee Free Choice Act goes up for a vote. It needs to pass.

[Edweird]

49. Pro union.

[tnlefty]

53. I am pro-union.

I've wondered about democrats, especially elected democrats, for a while, though. :shrug:

[last_texas_dem]

55. I believe that the majority of Democrats are. I'm less and less sure about the majority of DU.

[Touchdown]

57. It seems that some of us haven't discovered this poll yet.

Because they exist.

[Maru Kitteh]

67. Hell yeah!

[Burma Jones]

69. Unions are absolutely essential unless you like feudalism

Our Constitution was written with the assumption that there will always be conflict. You don't bring a penknife to a gunfight.

[TechBear_Seattle]

70. Democrats? Yes. The Democratic Party? Not so much n/t