I just had the thought that teenagers in previous decades seemed older than teenagers today.

[raccoon]

More like "junior adults" than a group of their own.

Do you know what I mean?




Teen Dance in Basement Recreation Room (1961), by Lee Howick and Neil Montanus. © 2009 Kodak, courtesy of George Eastman House.

[madaboutharry]

1. I don't know.

I think that is somewhat of a generalization. Though, they do seem like they are "softer" than previous generations. There were a lot of really dumbass "parenting" books written in the 1990's, which may deserve some of the blame. Some teenagers have been overindulged. That will most likely start to change.

[sinkingfeeling]

2. We certainly dressed better.

[predfan]

3. A lot of it was the socks.

[sufrommich]

4. Maybe a longer life span stretches the phases of the

human cycle. In 1840, 25 was middle age.

[Odin2005]

99. Actually, the low average lifespans of time past was the result of infant mortality, mostly.

The rest being war and disease. If you made it to 25 you had a good chance of living until your 70s unless an epidemic came your way.

[misanthrope]

107. Or got a common cut that resulted in infection**nm

**

[tridim]

5. I bet the "teens" in that pic are in their 20's

[raccoon]

11. Probably so. I was thinking more of the clothes and hairstyles, though. nt

[NeedleCast]

13. I was thinking the same thing

They don't look much like teens to me

[KittyWampus]

71. fun fact about fashion, yearly trends is a relatively new fashion development. And generational

differences is also relatively new. Making the exception for the wealthy.

For long periods of history, fashion remained relatively static. And children just wore smaller versions of adult clothing. Unless you were an elite.

[blues90]

73. No we had the same hair cuts and clothes our parents had

Plus in public schools the teachers were allowed to break a yardstick across your hand or smack you with a rubber tipped wooden pointer or stick you outside during the cold winter until the bell rang if you did not obey the rules or spoke out in class. Those kids in that photo are no more than 14 to 16.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

6. There's so much more responsibility facing our teenagers today, though.

Let's start, for example, with the drumbeat of "you must go to college." Worthy goal, of course. But that's caused getting into colleges, and in particular, getting into good colleges far more competitive than it ever has been. To get into a top notch school, you've got to be nearly flawless academically, do around the clock extracurriculars, and solve world peace in your spare time (of which you have none). And let's not start on having to pay for college, which means you're either staring down ridiculous debt or working a few jobs.

Don't bother not going to college these days, either - you won't find many jobs available to you, and even if you do, they're of the burger flipping variety and won't sustain you or a family.

Then there's the fact that most of today's kids are latchkey, meaning, they have to take care of themselves and their siblings a large portion of the time while mom and dad work to pay the bills.

There's a lot more involved, of course, and what is typically the result of pent up stress? Either acting far too young for your age at times, regressing into a childhood state, or extreme depression/ulcers. I chose the latter when I was a teen, and let me tell you, for the most part, I chose wrong.

[T Wolf]

16. I disagree. How many 12-year olds have to go out and support families these days?

We have created the teenage years as an extended childhood (with benefits).

There are different pressures now, but the life of a "teenage" is much easier than persons between 12-19 had in the past. The extended lifespan has some impact, but even adjusting for that, teens now have it "easier."

[havocmom]

43. Extending childhood indeed.

I would say we have been extending infancy judging from the teens I get to observe. They THINK they are adults with all the rights/freedoms, but damned few will accept responsibility (and I blame parents/society for that) and not many of them have an inkling how to deal with the slightest disappointment or resistance in life.

Seems a good chunk of the whole population is in the throes of arrested development and has a bad case of perpetual Terrible Twos. (Just look at Senator Davie 'Fancy Pants' Vitter ;) )

edited to correct coding fubar

[acmavm]

93. Oh you are so right. I have one and let me tell you, it's not because I'm

not on his ass. He is supposed to check in everywhere he goes (he rarely does), he is not supposed to have people in my house when I'm at work (he often does), and he is doing 'independent study' until next year because he had so much trouble at his school. It was not all his fault, nor was it all the fault of the school. (Both were a pain in my ass.)

He has a very smart mouth. I hate to admit it but I've eavesdropped on him and his friends when they were blabbing loudly withing earshot, and they have no manners (THAT I DO NOT UNDERSTAND) and they are rude and crude. I don't understand that because some these kids come from homes with some nice and responsible caring parents. That I myself know for a fact.

Patrick is currently grounded. It was for life but now I'm considering reducing the sentence to a month or so. We'll see. He is by far NOT THE WORST KID in the neighborhood. We have a couple doozies. But he certainly is selfish and thoughtless. And so are his friends.

BIG EDIT: To show the kid ain't all bad, he spent last summer volunteering at the Mission helping to watch kids. He did it for free. And he went all the time.

[hfojvt]

72. say what? When did 12 or 14 year old ever have to support families?

And the 'extended lifespan' is over-hyped. People were living into their 70s and 80s back in the 1600s and 1700s and many people are dying in their 20s, 30s and 40s today.

[blues90]

75. where did you come up with those figures?

Back then 40 was old and worn out near death. Think about what the cause of death is today at 20 , 30 or 40.

[hfojvt]

91. family history research

The five sons of Joseph Loomis (about 1590 - 25 nov 1658) all lived to be past 60. They were Joseph 1615 - 26 Jun 1687 (age 72), John 1622 - 1 Sep 1688 (age 66), Thomas 1624 - 28 Aug 1689 (age 65), Nathaniel 1626 - 19 Aug 1688 (age 62) (I might also note that while too many women died in childbirth, that was hardly universal either. Nathaniel's wife, Elizabeth Moore was born on 23 Jul 1638 and died on 23 Jul 1728, age 90, even after giving birth to twelve children) and Samuel 1628 - 1 Oct 1689 (age 61).

As the Loomis family history records, of the 479 sons known of the 5th generation, 264 of them lived past 60 and 19 of them lived past 90. The fifth generation was born in the early to middle 1700s. Many of the stats bragging about our longer lifespans include lots of infant and child mortality which brings the average down. Things like TB and cholera, which we have a handle on now, also brought the average down, but as far back as I have records, if a person lived into their teens, they lived about as long as they do today.

Okay, maybe not quite as long, as 62 seems kinda youngish, but even then it was probably flu or something that killed them, rather than old age. With a kidney transplant, they might have lived to be 80.

[Retrograde]

80. my grandmother left school at 14 to work

her father died and the family needed the money. She did piece work in a factory. None of my grandparents finished high school, and I'm not sure they all even finished grammar school. There was plenty of unskilled and semi-skilled labor available that paid decently - enough to buy a house and raise a family - that didn't require an education. Plus, they established their families by their early 20s.

Many people hear "life expectancy of 40" and think people tended to die around middle age. The lower numbers reflect the large number of children who didn't make it past 5 or so: as that fraction decreases, the average life expectancy is going to rise. However, you also have to factor in things like advances in medicine and nutrition that have extended livespans with my own life.

[hfojvt]

92. there are always exceptions, but not the norm in my research

typically when a father died, the mother remarried. It's probably true though that kids started working on the farm, particularly during planting and harvesting, from the age of six and by their teen years were probably working pretty hard rather than playing all day or hanging out and running around, but they mostly didn't start their own families until they were in their twenties, and even then would often be living with, or right next to, their parents or in-laws.

Myself, I got a paper-route and shovelled snow and cut grass for money by the time I was about twelve and used that money to buy my own telescope. That option is not available in my town any more. They could not find enough responsible kids to deliver papers so they switched to mail delivery. But it seems to me that the job didn't pay as much in real wages as it used to either.

[lumberjack_jeff]

98. My father ran away from home at ten.

I always thought the term "riding the rails" was a euphemism for illicitly riding in boxcars, that's not true. It's riding the literal rails which hang underneath boxcars. When the train stopped, you hauled ass because the engineer was coming to beat the crap out of stowaways.

He hung out in hobo camps until he met my mom at 16 then they moved to California where they started a family and he was drafted into the WWII army.

One of the smartest people I've ever known and he had roughly a 6th grade education.

[Bluenorthwest]

37. The boys in the photo

faced the draft. College was for the fortunate.

[lumberjack_jeff]

95. Yup. Lucky I never suffered from the pressure of getting the Halo high score.

The price of failure is inconceivable.

The self-induced pressure faced by kids who want to achieve goals is as it always has been. For everyone else, young adults today have the option of experiencing a protracted period of adolescence.

[Sequoia]

7. I certainly do.

I remember being in the 6th grade or so and thinking teens and college kids were very much adult looking with their hair styles and clothes. And going back even further teens had a lot of responsibilty that teens can't even fathom today.

[H2O Man]

8. "I remember a time

when belly-buttons were knee-high ...." -- John Lennon, age 17.

[H2O Man]

26. Up until the end

of the 1950s, sociologists recognized groupings that included infants, children, teenagers, and then adults. This was because, for the most part, teens either went into the military, the work force, or became house wives.

In the early 1960s, more teens began to enter colleges across the country. The result was a new group came to be recognized: "youth." It cover, approximately, the ages 18 to 23. While many people in that group entered the military, work force, got married, etc, a large enough segment had a period of extended education where they still depended upon parents for financial support and housing between semesters. Hence, the extended years known as "youth," and the development of "youth culture."

[Donnachaidh]

9. they were expected to grow up and take on responsibility

Hell, some of those kids left high school and took jobs as bank clerks, etc. Some of them married straight out of high school. And their families (hopefully) that they knew what responsibilities they would be facing right out of school.

[ensho]

17. yes, in the late 40s early 50s girls in 12th grade who were not engaged,

going steady or about to be married, were looked at as having something wrong with them.

when I was about to be married a room full of my mother's chat and sewing group asked me what I wanted to produce first, a boy or a girl. (a common question then). I said I didn't want to bring another female into this man run world so I hoped for a boy.

they all tittered and blushed. my mother said in an aggrieved voice, 'oh Bobbie Lou' (nickname). I had 2 pregs., 2 boys and then the women's movement geared up and here we are today.

todays I'd wish for a girl.

[treestar]

35. The working class ones, maybe

The middle class ones were expected to go to college.

I don't get the impression that they thought of jobs and families as tremendous responsibilities to be faced. Just part of life and fun. We make it out in such a negative way now, no wonder teengers seek to put it off.

[Donnachaidh]

52. the wrking class ones went to college too

But they weren't going with plans about *Spring Break* or getting drunk or stoned all the time, like many of the kids seem to (want) to be doing now. Many of them worked their way through school, holding down part time jobs with a full class schedule. AND, sometimes even getting married at the same time.

Responsibility wasn't considered a *burden* back then. But the word has been demonized in our *We have to have FUN FUN FUN before we do anything* atmosphere now.

[Threedifferentones]

87. You are exageratting the change, Donna

Take a look at how many gallons of gas, loaves of bread or college hours a minimum wage job could buy you back in 1969. Yes, more people today probably depend totally on their parents than 40 years ago, but those of us that did not actually have it harder.

With only google available to me it is a pain to look up info to back this up, but a quick search of "minimum wage 1960s" revealed this in the first few hits:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1153/is_v110/ai_5117389

According to this article, which is from the 80s, minimum wage reached its highest purchasing power in 1968. So, the kids who lived from the late 50s to mid 70s or so actually had it the easiest. Perhaps that explains why they were also very much in to drugs and leisure during that "counter-culture."

And now people from that generation want to bitch at us about how easy we have it? How little responsibility means to us?

"Back in my day I had to walk two miles uphill through the snow to school...BOTH WAYS...kids these days! ARGH"

Blah, blah, blah, the more things change the more they stay the same.

[Odin2005]

101. College kids have been acting pretty much the same since the Middle Ages.

I read several hilarious anecdotes about rowdy, prankish, drunk college students in Paris the 1300s from a book on the time period that sounds just like college students today.

[treestar]

105. They didn't do Spring break-like things, I would think

My parents are of that generation and unless they are keeping big secrets, didn't do a lot of that but also went to college first. Their parents sent them, but surely others worked.

Part of it is that time period, and the sexual revolution. Anyone who lived before that time wasn't necessarily harder worker and of better character. The society around them was more repressive. Many of them would have lived by today's standards if they could have.

Also don't forget, the women of that time had way more limited prospects as to careers and any type of independence. And many of the women at that time fought for their daughters to have more freedom and wouldn't have wanted their daughter married and having kids as a teen even if they did.

To top that off, there are still teens that take on the responsibility of parenthood young. First comes to mind our favorite, Bristol Palin. :hide:

And there still are teens with jobs, putting themselves through college, sometimes having to work at it until they are 25 or so to get all the classes in.

[misanthrope]

109. Seems to me most of the women in college then...

...were looking for MRS degrees. There's still a substantial amount of pre-wed majors out there.

[leftofthedial]

10. I teach mostly young adults, 18 - 28.

Most of them remind me of me when I was about 10.

[Hello_Kitty]

29. So it's not just me noticing it.

My best friends boyfriend's son (there's a mouthful!) is nearly 20 years old and the kid can barely tie his own shoes. He's perfectly intelligent and capable but his parents (and then his single dad since mom can't be bothered with him now that the child support has stopped) did everything for him. The excuse is he's got ADD. He doesn't even know how to do his own laundry! Conversations with him consist of hearing about his favorite cartoon or video game. I look at his dad, who is a very intelligent and accomplished man, and I can't believe it.

[Odin2005]

103. I'm 22 and least some of us know how to take care of ourselves.

I swear, my apartment is a hell of a lot cleaner then the homes of most people my age. I also, *SHOCK*, know how to cook decent meals with real food, not many other young guys know how to do that, it seems.

[leftofthedial]

106. keep rockin

:thumbsup:

[Odin2005]

111. Thanks.

I was fortunate enough to have parents that, although they spoiled me a bit, made sure I had the skills to live on my own. Being a latch-key kid who had the house to myself a lot helped too.

[Arugula Latte]

61. Adolescence seems to stretch to age 30 and beyond in many cases.

[sinkingfeeling]

81. I agree. Sitting at a state university right now.

[RebelOne]

12. I was a teen in the '50s, got married when I was 16

and had a child when I was 18. So I grew up very quickly.

[Odin2005]

104. Married at 16? that was still going on as late as the 50s?

[monmouth]

14. Teenagers of "yesteryear" were far more mature. They were the children

and grandchildren of adults who had lived during the depression. Rarely did you come across the "spoiled brat" who expected "stuff." Almost all of the teenagers I knew had a part-time job of some sort, babysat, etc. If you wanted a car, you earned the money to buy it. Many bought their own clothes and had an appreciation for their possessions. Most kids then were socially astute and had a clear vision of where they wanted to go and how to get there. For the guys, if money wasn't available for college, you went into the military and then onto college when you got out. If you drank too much on a Friday night you were the subject of gossip and your rep was a big concern...Just a few things I remember.

[Tyler Generation]

18. Thank hyperinflation and the babyboomer "me" generation for ruining all of that nt

Nothing is affordable anymore, and the babyboomers spoiled there kids by passing along their own selfishness. It's easy for these older generations to constantly pat themselves on the back when the playing field was much easier.

[Donnachaidh]

57. not all boomers spoiled their kids -- nice broadbrush there toots.

Blaming ALL boomers for the greed and lack of self control of newer generations is total bullshit. There comes a time when the generation that has been given everything (those kids of the boomers) need to step up to the plate and grow up. The problem is - MANY haven't. They still want to have everything handed to them, to the point of bankruptcy because THEY didn't take responsibility and exercise some PERSONAL self control of their financial binges. Many times, INSTEAD, they will look to the very parents they BLAME for their lack of control to cover THEIR *adult* asses by signing over their homes or retirement pensions to keep their greedy, shallow kids from losing everything.

And those little boomer kiddies STILL want to blame their parents. :eyes:

Boomers may be able to get blamed for some of this -- but once those spoilt children are out on their own and then STILL refuse to be responsible -- the BLAME should be RIGHTLY dropped on THEIR heads. Wanna be an adult? ACT like one. Don't want to act like one -- be prepared to take the blame on YOURSELF.

[MedleyMisty]

108. Lulz.

"I can broadbrush teenagers all I want but don't you dare broadbrush my generation!"

[blues90]

70. What are you 15?

What the hell do know about the boomers and allow me to inform you the boomers we not and never carried the title "the me generation".

I knew perhaps one single kid in the 50's or 60's that was even close to spoiled and he was an only child and a lonely child. Everyone is school had a dress code or you were sent home for breaking it and expelled for three or more days. You were not allowed to stand out.

As far as playing the field which I assume still means finding a girl friend or boy friend was and has never been an easy thing. There were the very same concerns during any generation , where you fit in , where you tried to fit in and ext.

Speaking for myself and my close friends there was no spoiling , you worked for anything you wanted , I spend the three month summer vacation at 12 years old working with my father as a carpenter , just me and him building an entire house and I got a $150 electric guitar and even without the desire for the guitar I still had no choice about working and would have got nothing . I worked 7 days a week from dusk till dawn ever summer vacation since the age of 9 with him and I never saw a child labor defender out there. This was in the 50's and early 60's. Plus cut the grass with a gas manual powered push mower no one I knew had garndeners coming by and shoveled snow during the winter plus all the other assorted choirs. All my friends did this work. We we made to do and follow what our parents grew up doing and it was no free ride.

You know nothing about the boomer generation so wipe yourself off behind your ears.

[sinkingfeeling]

82. Can I come to your pity party? "Nothing is affordable anymore"... try buying a $25,000 house on a

monthly salary of $289 a month. And oh yes, the 'playing field was much easier'... like being drafted for Nam? I don't know of a single kid I graduated high school with that didn't pay for their own car and most of their college education. I lucked out with full scholarships, but dropped out to keep my husband in college (to avoid being drafted) to work to support us.

[livetohike]

94. I'm a boomer - I didn't have a car, my own telephone, or

anything else it seems most teens have to have these days. I babysat for 50 cents/hour from the time I was 12 and I saved my money to buy birthday and Christmas gifts for my family. I sewed my own clothes and rarely bought anything from the store. We had a dress code until my senior year in high school. This meant no jeans or tee shirts or even slacks for the girls. I grew up in the suburbs in the 60's and most of my friends were just like me. We went to state colleges and worked our way through school with jobs on or off campus.

It took me 7 years to pay off my student loans and I paid back every single penny of it.

The playing field was not much easier then. There was lots of competition because there were lots of us.

[Ikonoklast]

100. Trade you in a heartbeat, Skippy.

The year I turned 14 during summer break I worked full-time, and every summer after that. During the school year, I worked as many hours as I could fit in. I did it in order to have clothes to wear and shoes on my feet, as my parents had five kids and weren't making a whole lot of money back then.

You did what you needed to do to help out your family, or you'd go hungry when the money ran out.

All the while this was going on and I was getting older, and as there was no money for me to attend a university, my future heavily depended on whether or not I would get drafted for the Viet Nam war. It loomed over my high-school years like a ominous black cloud that no one wanted to talk about.

Except when a local kid came home from the war and got buried.

Some of us were trying to decide whether to join a branch of service that wouldn't see combat before we got drafted, or wait and take our chances with getting high draft number.

Yeah, we had it made.

:eyes:

[Lydia Leftcoast]

102. Well, I had no children to spoil, but

when I was a teenager, my monthly allowance was $5, about enough to buy four paperback books or two LPs.

I had exactly 12 separate garments (not outfits, mix and match garments) to wear to school.

I didn't own a car till I was 29. I have never owned a house.

The one thing I will grant is that financial aid for college and graduate school was more generous then.

[tanngrisnir3]

15. Hey, look! A photograph of HELL!!!!! MY EYES!!! MY EYES!!!!!!!

[NeedleCast]

20. Seven of the Eight men in that picture

are wearing sweaters...at a dance...and at least three of them are wearing black shoes with white tube socks. They probably wear those shoes and socks at the beach too.

I will never wear a sweater again...

[tangent90]

19. It seems exactly the opposite to me.

I see 13 yo kids getting off the school bus who look to me like 18 yos did in the 50s.
:shrug:

[hfojvt]

74. I have heard parents say their kids were 13 going on 20

And I reply, you mean they are very responsible and level-headed and mature?

[Quantess]

97. Do you mean, the 13 yr olds of today physically resemble the 18 yr olds of the 1950s?

Now that I can believe, since children are larger than they used to be, vertically and horizontally. They physically are maturing earlier. Except, there were fewer obese youngsters in the 1950s.

[Hello_Kitty]

21. Teenagers? Shit, I know far too many 20 somethings still being coddled by their parents

It's bizarre to me. I got the hell out of my house as soon as it was humanly possible.

[GoCubsGo]

53. I'm seeing the same thing...

My niece is twenty five. The way she acts most of the time, one would think she's fifteen. I cringe every time I read her Facebook page, not just because of her, what her friends post, too. Do they not teach spelling, punctuation and grammar anymore? She at least knows how to cook, but only because her mother, my sister, is a trained chef. Most of the kids her age couldn't find their way around a kitchen if their lives depended on it--at least the ones I have met.

[Hello_Kitty]

63. I know. What happened to chores?

I don't know a single middle class teenager (or in many cases young adult) that has any. When I was growing up our family had live-in housekeepers and lanscapers - AKA my sister, stepbrother, and me. We did EVERYTHING.

[MineralMan]

22. That photo is phony as can be?

I was a sophomore in high school at the time that photo was taken. Where are the couples making out in the dark corners? Where's the beer?

Staged.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

28. But the fashions are accurate

At that time, a girl could still be sent home from school for wearing pants. Even boys were forbidden to wear jeans--they had to wear khakis, corduroys, or wool pants.

This restriction for girls made NO sense in Minnesota, where it could stay below zero for a month at a time. I used to wear pants under my dress, sneak into the school the back way, and duck into a nearby restroom to change before anyone saw me.

[MineralMan]

39. Yes, the clothes are correct...at least for the whitebread

teens they're depicting. We had the same rules in our high school about no jeans for boys and no pants for girls. I wore khakis through high school. I'm not saying that the kids didn't look like that. I'm saying that they didn't act like that and that the image isn't typical of a teen gathering in the basement rec room.

It was the end of those times. Within five years of 1961, jeans were OK, as were pants on girls. From there, nothing was ever the same.

My memories of that time are a mixture of good and bad. I rejected the uniformity as soon as I left my little home town in California. And still, I had a pretty exciting high school experience.

[schmuls]

41. In high school (1967-1969) we could not wear pants. The only

exception was when the weather was at a certain temp, and then we had to wear them under our skirt or dress and then remove them at school. The year after I graduated, the policy was changed and they could wear pants. I've got to say, I sure made a lot of cool dresses and jumpers! I think teenagers were way better dressed then. You could distinguish between the sexes!

[raccoon]

42. It was the same in my schools, where for sure it didn't get near as cold as MN,

but it did get cold.

I remember my sister bitching that girls had to dress up to go to school, boys could wear what they wanted. I don't remember if the boys could wear jeans or not.

Oh, and boys couldn't have *gasp* LONG HAIR!

[Lydia Leftcoast]

67. Yes, in about 1965, all the coaches in my high school

grabbed some of the long-haired boys in the hallways and held them down to give them hair cuts.

As far as I knew, no parents sued the school.

That's one thing that would never be allowed today, thank goodness.

[sinkingfeeling]

83. Heck, I was still wearing skirts and sweaters in 1966-68 at college where I was in pre-vet. I was

leading beef steers around in a frickin skirt!

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

23. They seemed older because you were younger.

A high school senior seems middle aged from the perspective of a teenager.

[Arkansas Granny]

40. Aren't high school seniors still teenagers?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

44. Uh, yes.

That's pretty much my point.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

24. society encourages teenagers in developed countries to retain some aspects of children

as a way of bribing them to stay in school longer

so as america is becoming more and more developed and we need longer and longer times to stay in school, kids are remaining adolescent for longer periods

[Lydia Leftcoast]

25. My mother once told me that until after WWII, there was no such thing as

teenage clothing. You wore children's clothes until puberty, and then you wore adult clothes. Period.

Last year, we dug out the slides that my mom took on our 1967 trip to Europe. At the time, my brothers and I ranged from ages 12 to 17.

Even though there were definite teenage styles by that point, my nieces and nephews (ages 12 to 24) had one reaction to the slides: "You're all dressed so formally!"

In most of the pictures, I'm wearing a jumper or a skirt with a variety of tops. My brothers are wearing pants with belts and shirts with collars. After all, a trip to Europe was a once-in-a-lifetime special occasion (actually, my brothers still haven't been back), and for all special occasions, you dressed up.

In contrast, I almost never see my nephews in anything that would look out of place in a gym. They wear tank tops and baggy shorts in the summer, and sweats in the winter.

Yes, I see a lot of sloppiness around, and I was brought up on the principle that looking sloppy was disrespectful to the occasion or to the person that you're visiting. That was why you dressed up for school, for church, for social occasions, and for visiting adults. I guess that idea went out with taking off one's hat inside a building.

The worst example I saw was a 14-year-old girl attending her grandfather's funeral literally in sweatpants and a hooded sweatshirt. I seriously wondered what was wrong with her parents that they couldn't make her put on something even a little more formal, like khakis and a sweater.

[havocmom]

45. hmmm, clothing makers may have created a big niche market?

I agree with you. When I look at my parents' high school year books, everyone looks like a young adult. Mine? Not so much. Now? Don't get me started...

[haele]

27. Teen-age is a modern invention -

Up until the 1940's, once you were 14 or 15, you were in training to be a fully-functioning adult, rather than lounging around in a sort of half-life child-hood. Whether or not your brain is fully developed and you were capable of making adult decisions, you were pretty much considered an adult by the time you were 17 or 18 and were expected to act and take the responsibilities of an adult.
High School was supposed to train a young person for a trade and/or adult responsibilities. You were already supposed to have gone through the "learning how to learn" and be trained how to research and observe by the time you were in 7th or 8th grade. Even in the 60's and 70's, I had learned or gone through "Art Appreciation", Geography, the Dictionary, sentance structure and grammer, state and US History, the basics of a second language, somewhat complex basic math/algebra/geometry (Unions, percentages, decimals, and basic formula) and a full two semesters of non-lab science by the time I was in 7th grade - and that was in a standard big city public school system. (Seattle) I had Civics and Accounting in 10th/11th grade as manditory classes, along with the advanced math and at least one lab science class requirements. 12th grade was set up to be pretty much a electives year - if you were going to college, you got your college prep. If not, you could take courses that would help you get a job, like business practices, advanced accounting, or shop/trades courses.
From what I've seen with the kidlet, even at a good public school (an International Bacclauriate Magnet), her classes are a good two/three years behind the same classes I took when I was going to school, and they're missing huge segments of the more independant or esoteric learning we were required to take to at least go through the motions of learning to research or observe - the "engaging the mind" courses.

By infantilizing our youth, we encourage them to be passive. And that's the biggest problem I see with young people today.

Oh, and "You Kids Get Off My Lawn!"

Haele

[Hello_Kitty]

30. In 90% of the families of people I know with minor children

The kids have no household chores of any kind. The parents hire landscapers and housekeepers. This is Arizona so invariably those people are Hispanic. A whole generation of Anglo kids around me are growing up to believe that people with brown skin are supposed to clean up after them.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

36. Right, I saw a definite deterioration in high school requirements in the

first few years after I graduated, and my school was considered mediocre.

My younger brothers, coming along 3 and 5 years later, had a much easier time.

Now I see the high school curriculum as lacking coherence. Our courses followed a definite sequence of building on the previous course, and we took most courses for a whole year, with a few exceptions, like Personal Typing.

Now my nieces and nephews switch courses every nine weeks and there seems to be no coherence or sequencing--and they're all in what are considered good suburban school districts.

[treestar]

31. Likely it always seems that way

When I was 16, I felt like a big deal. Now that I am 49, 16 year olds seem like children.

IMO they were more innocent in those days. I know we are told that sex went on, but I don't think it was expected as it practically is today.

They could afford to be more confident about their own future then too, at least the middle class white ones in the photo.

[Javaman]

32. yes, teenagers 30 years ago were actually in their 50s. nt

[Arkansas Granny]

33. Looking back, I think that we were expected to take on the responsibilties

of adulthood earlier than kids today. Childhood was considered to be pretty much ended when you graduated high school and you either went on to college, found a job or joined the military.

The average age of first marriage in 1961 was 22.8 years for men and 20.3 years for women. Before reliable birth control was readily available, many of these marriages resulted in a baby within the first year of marriage. I went to school with lots of girls who married very young. I got married when I was 19 and most of the girls I had graduated with were already married.

This is not meant as criticism to young people today. The world has changed so much since the 60's that it's hard to even draw comparisons.

[Hello_Kitty]

76. Longer life spans and delayed marriages don't explain the immaturity

I have never wanted to marry or have kids and never have. But I was a mature adult and supporting myself by the time I was in my early 20s. For whatever reason, the current generation of parents is coddling and spoon-feeding their kids until well into adulthood. I read an article recently about how some parents are going on job interviews with their kids!

[Stevenmarc]

34. That photo makes me wonder

When the next season of Mad Men will start

[Jennicut]

38. I grew up as a teen in the 90's. My parents were more innocent and yet more mature.

They got married by 22. They took on more adult responsibiklities. We go to 4 year colleges more now and wait longer to get married and have children. However, teens are way more exposed to adult themes today or maybe its just not swept under the rug anymore.

[TahitiNut]

46. As a member of my high school Class of 61, that's a portrayal of MY GENERATION.

I think of those years as the "Sandra Dee Years" ... pegged trousers, penny loafers, uncomfortable sweaters, girls wearing girdles and underwire bras, ... BEFORE birth control and Roe v. Wade.

Yes ... we were adults-in-waiting. We got work permits at age 14 so we had about 3-4 years of job experience at the time. Every guy in that portrayal had to consider the draft. The idea today that an 18-year-old is still a child is laughable to me.

Yes... that photo is a very "cleaned up" portrayal. Basement recrooms were darker for parties - usually only a lamp or two -- and a lot more "second-hand" than shown. If I'd seen anything like that, I'd regard the family as "rich." Nonetheless, the general theme is pretty accurate.

[havocmom]

47. Do tell... Dobie Doo

::cue bongos::

My brother's peers were like you. I was more hippy dippy (when I had a spare minute from studies and chores)

The photo does seem a tad idealistic from what I remember, watching the 'big kids' that hung out at our house, but a fair representation of the crowd in the rumpus room, playing high stakes ping pong and quaffing down RC Cola by the quart.

[TahitiNut]

49. Yup. I was more Dobie than Maynard ... until after Viet Nam.

I was a Kingston Trio fan far more than an Elvis fan. I did coonskin cap as a kid and was enough of a 'follower' to do blue suede shoes ("flip top") as a teen. I vividly recall pegging my own chinos ... and doing after-school ironing of my chinos and Gant shirts. (We had to have the button-down collar and locker hook.)

:shrug:

[havocmom]

50. Still have bro's Kingston Trio albums (he went reel to reel, the putz)

Also Limelighters.

I recall mom using chino stretchers in the legs of the slacks to cut down on ironing. Brother had a 'flattop' and Dad's musician pals gave him a lotta grief for his way-too short hair! Brother ALWAYS wore button down, long sleeve shirts and I didn't see him in denim until he showed up in Coastie dungarees after he mustered out.

Between Dad's musician pals (jazz men all) and my buttoned down brother, I lived in Dobie Gillis hell for my first few years. I have been playing Maynard to his Dobie all my life. He STILL can't loosen up. (might explain the bypass and stints)

I like the Dobie look. Always have. That and the smell of Old Spice :loveya:

About blew a gasket when, at 13, my daughter asked me if I still had any of my old poodle skirts she could wear! Told her I recalled them, but was too young to have owned one, and to ask her auntie.

Hell, girls still couldn't wear slacks to school when I was there. Shit, I'm old!

[Hardrada]

88. I still wear those type shirts and am grieved there is no

button in the back of the collar anymore. My favorite colors are blue and goldenrod. I bought Kingston Trio records until 1963 and then switched to Joan Baez and Judy Collins. My brothers and I were photographed wearing coonskin caps in 1954 or 55 by the movie theater owner to promote the Davy Crockett flick then playing in his theater. One thing though, jeans were OK in our school for guys. The young women in band did not have a dress code but could show up in shorts on the days they had to change into band uniforms anyway.

[MellowDem]

48. Actually, in some ways younger...

The stories I hear from my parents about their friends in school made me realize how naive teenagers were back then comapred to now. Nowadays, teens generally have less responsibilty, but that's because they aren't starting families like they used to back then. Of course you seem more adult when you're getting engaged at the age of 19. Now that is practically unheard of.

You can thank the women's movement, the civil rights movement, the labor movement, etc. for the "infantalization" of teenagers today. Man, the way some of you talk, you actually think it was a good thing what was going on back then. Really, I feel sorry for that generation, with such strict gender roles and much less choice, I've seen a lot of the after effects (many years down the line). Of course, more choice can bring its own problems. It's a lot less stressful when you have an assigned role and stable societal structure so that you know just where you fit into society, whereas a lot of teens nowadays have trouble "finding themselves". Growing up back then meant conforming to ready-set societal roles, whereas growing up now means scratching, clawing, and competing with others in a global economy while trying to find your role in life. Things are a lot less black and white now. Teens are more cynical and less naive, however "infantalized" they are.

These are just generalizations of course.

[havocmom]

51. Perhaps less jaded and more easily impressed/intrigued

I feel sorta sorry for kids now. They have so little to inspire them and ignite real passion.

[MellowDem]

58. True...

a sort of apathy seems to have settled on this generation. Though, in all honesty, I have never seen my peers so inspired or ignited by passion as in this past election! Too much cynicism had made them apathetic toward politics (most of them didn't even vote in 2004). But in 2008? Every single one voted. I guess they found out it's ok to set aside cynicism every now and again and take an ideological stand, and screw those naysayers. We need people to be idealists as well as cynics.

[havocmom]

65. I am heartened by the recent increase in political awareness and involvment

and I do what I can to fan the flames of that particular passion in young people I interact with. But so many are just not engaged, themselves, or by the society as a whole. Sad. We lose them, we lose the future and the prime reason for existing in the first place (I put blame for that on my generation and many young parents who are more involved chasing the latest marketing gimmick than raising their kids to be functioning human beings.)

[redqueen]

62. How do you mean?

It seems to me that there is plenty to inspire passion and imagination.

[havocmom]

64. We see too many 'zombie teens' who just don't engage

I ALWAYS see things to inspire passion & imagination. What I see in too many younger people is a lot of uninspired teens. It is sad, as we, as a society, have done that to so many. Too many are simply un-raised and they sense they have been abandoned at some really deep level. They are depressed beyond caring.

[redqueen]

69. I see your point.

However I don't agree that the reason is that there is little to inspire them.

I think far too many just don't care about instilling passion in their own children. Plop them in front of a tv, sign them up for some sports and lessons, get them into college so you can say you did a good job. And most likely, those parents were not given that gift by their own parents.

We can also blame society at large, however... at some point each individual can choose to refocus on their own.

[madokie]

54. Only because of your own aging

when that could have been me in one of the suits of clothes shown there people who were my age now, 16 days shy of 61, looked ancient. We actually dressed like that too back then, well some did that is.

:-)

[Donald Ian Rankin]

55. Back in medieval times, 15 was an adult.

N.T.

[raccoon]

66. Why'd you put nt on another line? nt

[WI_DEM]

56. they look like they are college students or at least people in there 20's.

[redqueen]

59. I don't know about yesteryear,

but it does seem to me that people in general (not just teens) are getting dumber / less responsible / more childish... however you want to put it.

[Joe Fields]

60. agree!

[mudesi]

68. That's Cause Those Teens Are Dressed Like Old People

It's an illusion. The clothing and hairstyles of the teenagers in that picture give the illusion that they're older because that's what an "old person" who is completely out of touch would look like today.

[backscatter712]

78. Exactly! They're dressed like they're in the 30's!

This is 1961, isn't it! Weren't there rebels without a cause back then?

Where are the t-shirts with packs of cigs in the sleeves? Where are the slicked-back or ducktail hairdoos? Where are the leather jackets?

[backscatter712]

79. Actually, you know what that photo reminds me of? REEFER MADNESS!!!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Play faster! Play faster!!! FASTER!!! FaSSTeR!!!1

[sinkingfeeling]

85. That was the 1950's... Richie Cunningham, etc.

[carlyhippy]

77. maybe its the hair,but they look older than teens, but I will caption anyway

the couple in the middle dancing....guy: If I spin her around a little faster, maybe that plaid skirt will fly up a little more...heh heh...

The guy wiht the camera: OK hide the alcoholic drinks, because my mom and pop will see these pictures.....

the guy with the guitar: I wrote this romantic song just for you, doll....He's hoping he will get lucky because of this ultra smooth move....

the couple guy with green sweater and girl with pink dress: WHAT?! I am not going to kiss you on the lips, I am not that kind of girl/!

[Ilsa]

84. These kids dressed and wore their hair like their parents.

Hubby doesn't look that neat going to the office every day.

Are you sure those aren't twenty-somethings in that picture?

[sinkingfeeling]

86. Crap! Just noticed the glasses at the bar. I still have a set of those!

[orleans]

89. cringe. (the picture.) just "cringe." n/t

[Hippo_Tron]

90. And look, they're all white too

[Odin2005]

96. In recent years our society has been "infantilizing" teens IMO, treating them more like kids and...

...less like the young adults they are.When my Boomer parents were teens they got away with a lot more shit then I or my peers did and they were treated more like adults and were expected to be more independent then my generation.

IMO teens should not be lumped with kids in a single "juvenile" category. People in the 14-17 age range are adults or nearly adults biologically and that should have some influence in legal matters, age-of-consent laws, etc.

In most societies you are an adult at around 15, having it at 18 is a Western oddity.

[misanthrope]

110. I like the furniture and the fireplace...

...not so much the cheap paneling or plants.