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how do you define "excellence" as applied to teachers?

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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 06:35 PM
Original message
how do you define "excellence" as applied to teachers?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 06:36 PM
Response to Original message
1. Any teachers or K-12 teachers?
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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. take your pick.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #3
23. I learned most from teachers who introduced me to a set of issues,
set manageable tasks and then, got out of the way. If I risked making big mistakes, it was because they made it okay to do that on my way to understanding what the hell they were trying to present to us. Maybe what I mean is, an excellent teacher "gets" the learning style of his/her students and tries to meet that style half way. That's far above and beyond "covering" material, isn't it? :)
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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #23
33. it is, yes.
That's hard to do, though, when you have admin types dropping in daily to check whether or not you're following the prescribed plan. I've been in that environment.

But with an addendum that accommodation be made for those above and below the level expect of the general task (which you likely did anyway), I'm pretty much in agreement with what you have here. :)
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #33
37. I have no idea how you all manage in what seems to me
an oppressive environment. But that's why you get the big money. :hug:
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wryter2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
2. Aye, there's the rub n/t
n/t
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 06:39 PM
Response to Original message
4. I'd like to hear more about how people are defining "bad" teachers.
Not that I expect honest answers.
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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. so that's a vote for "I have no idea".
Thanks.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Oh, I think I can sum up "excellence" in context of these discussions.
"Teachers should be more excellence like they are in the movies. You know like the one where Captain Adama taught all those Mexicans to do calculus and save their beanfield from that big fat guy in the Coolio video. Why can't teachers be more like that?"
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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. "in the context of these discussions" wasn't part of what I asked.
How do you define teacher excellence?
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. It wasn't?
Could have fooled me.
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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #17
30. seems like a pretty simple question to me.
Perhaps you're easily fooled.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. Perhaps.
Perhaps it was just a coincidence you asked in the midst of all these merit pay, standardized tests, teachers are bad flamewars.
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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #31
35. I've posted here about education for years.
Take my current posts as you will, but it isn't coincidence.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. Yes, I know.
And you're a particularly reliable poster every time the know-nothings show up to bash teachers.

:thumbsup:
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hugo_from_TN Donating Member (895 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 06:39 PM
Response to Original message
5. Multiple ways
Well prepared lesson plans.
Encourages questions.
Able to answer those questions and make concepts more understandable.
Sympathetic to kids struggling - offers encouragement and help.
Available after class to discuss problems.
Encourages parents to meet and discuss their child.
Stays up to date on teaching techniques and curriculum changes.
Handles disruptive students effectively.

Note that all of this can be assessed by peers, administrators, and trained assessors without ever bringing standardized tests into the discussion.
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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. fair enough.
If I could believe that such would be the basis for merit pay, I'd be all over it.
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Fresh_Start Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 06:45 PM
Original message
add components of 360 assessments as well
self evaluation
peer evaluation
administrator evaluation
parent evaluation
even (horror) student evaluation


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hugo_from_TN Donating Member (895 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 06:52 PM
Response to Original message
16. Yes Yes Yes
It's all valuable data and provides a good picture of how well a teacher is doing. The more assessors, the less likely politics or grudges will taint the process.
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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #16
61. That makes sense. nt
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #16
90. Agreed
and welcome to DU!

:hi:
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 07:03 PM
Response to Original message
26. The final I always gave in my Eng 1A sections was an evaluation
of the course as run by me. It was timed and my section trained all semester to learn how to do timed writing so they could manage the next four years. OOooh boy! Were those scalpels sharp by Week 16!

lol
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Fresh_Start Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. Feedback is good.
we may not always be pleased by what we read, but its both a learning opportunity and a great chance to perform honest self-evaluation.

For the most part, I find that students are fair about their teacher evaluations. Since I'm dealing with middle school age children, its not incredibly deep evaluation but it tends to be fair.
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Fresh_Start Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #26
32. I think I envy your students
I didn't learn timed writing techniques.
Of course, I've had to learn the equivalent on the job, but there are probably techniques I could use to my advantage.

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. I never did either but had to figure it out "on the job" on real tests.
I wouldn't recommend that method, especially for people that have to keep their grades up for scholarships! :)
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Fresh_Start Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #34
40. tests were easy for me
so I guess I wasn't thinking of them as timed writing per se, though of course I understand why you do so.

Its the 'give me a half page in bullets' by noon about 20 manyears of work that drive me nuts.

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #40
49. Timed essay tests can be hard for kids because there are too many
or not enough places to start from. Helping 'em figure out how to get to one that works is fun, though. :)
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Fresh_Start Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #49
56. I completely understand...
not because I lived it...but because I've seen it in my children. The brightest one has the most difficult time.

I think its because there are so many many possibilities and he keeps trying to pick the "best" one out there.
He practically has to compose the entire thing in his head before he can commit to paper (or even keyboard).

He has a huge writing phobia because he had lots of technical issues with paper and pen/pencil. Thankfully OT helped but he still avoids handwriting like the plague.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #56
57. Omg. When I took handwritten tests, my mind stayed perfectly clear
and all my anxiety went right into my hand. It was horrible. So, my answers were fine but my handwriting looked HOSTILE. Finally, I just 'fessed up to my teachers and offered to read the thing to them. None of them cared once they understood.

Another trick is to break down the time you get: 5 for brainstorming, ten for writing, 5 for editing, that kind of thing. My students learned to just throw down their ideas, circle the ones they wanted to use, number them and start writing their answer. Most of them just needed somewhere to put their anxiety and figuring out a process for themselves seemed to help with that. Carrying the whole thing in their heads (as I tried to do, too) is fine but having a back up strategy is nice, too.
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mbperrin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. How about positive lifetime effects on their students?
Just as surely as wine cannot be judged in its season of bottling, educators' real effects take years, even decades to show.

For instance, our district REQUIRES lesson plans to follow Bloom's Taxonomy, a truly out of date system. Those who are using a metacognitive model are being punished on their evaluations by the principal, a former football coach.

In this case, good teaching conflicts with district policy.

So rather than look so much at the HOW of teaching, I think we should spend more time on the lasting, lifetime results of education.
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Fresh_Start Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #11
21. I'll bite, how 50 years later are you going to measure it?
Edited on Thu Mar-12-09 06:56 PM by Fresh_Start
I'm betting for most students they remember only 1 or 2 teachers that they had. And I'll even believe that their worse teacher will be one of the two they remember
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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #11
60. Or spend more time also working on evaluation methods for
administrators!
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #5
89. Sounds good to me
we also had student evaluations of teachers in every school I ever attended-and where I taught. Seemed to work well in determining who was going the extra mile for their students.
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Whoa_Nelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #5
94. And we sleep, eat and live our "other" lives when?
Edited on Thu Mar-12-09 10:28 PM by Whoa_Nelly
Most nights am up until midnight or later. Of course, I take about an hour breather after the day, run a couple of errands after school when I can, but I usually get 4-6 hours of sleep a night during the school week.

I teach high school SpEd: Modern World History, Study and Life Skills, Math, World Geography and Western Civics. I also have 28 on my current caseload, so that means meeting with all my students' teachers regularly, checking up on my students' progress, making sure everyone is following the accommodations and modifications for each individual student within the SpEd and general ed. classes they are in, write IEPs (Individual Education Plans) that are usually 20 or more pages long for each of my students, test them for their academic skills when needed, contact parents on a regular basis, stay in touch with each students' counselor, meet with the vice-principals, make sure the school security team is up to date on case problems and gang behaviors or incidents, hold extra meetings for those students who need more, such as behavior Plans added to their IEPs, track their attendance and tardies, attend teacher meetings, SpEd teacher meetings, district-wide meetings for professional growth in writing across the curriculum and improving teaching methods for Math, as well as engaging students in both writing, reading and Math, and...damn...am out of breath, and out of time. I have to go do some more homework because I have a 1:1 teacher support meeting tomorrow morning that needs planning and preparation.

Did I mention I also create lesson plans and enter grades? Along with my caseload, I also teach many other SpEd students. I currently have 72 students total each day spread out across all the classes I teach.

Maybe it bears mentioning here, but I was one of the CA teachers "let go" due to budget cutbacks. Hopefully I will get picked up at the job fair on Mar. 21. Wish me luck?

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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 06:41 PM
Response to Original message
7. their students show improvement
now we need to define how we should measure that.

I'm all for portfilio assessments.
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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. I like portfolio assessments.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #7
27. What is that? Like before and after pictures over the course of the term?
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #27
93. Pretty much.
sort of a "greatest hits" that represents their work through the course of the year.
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Donald Ian Rankin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
9. The important question isn't "define", it's "measure".
Which is even harder.

The least worst measure I can think of would be measuring parent satisfaction, as standardised against satisfaction with other teachers at the same school. But even that has a host of problems.
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LibDemAlways Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #9
41. Several years ago when she was in 7th grade my
daughter had a math teacher the majority of students and parents absolutely hated. Why? She had a no-nonsense demeanor and wasn't interested in being the kids' or parents' friend. She was there to teach, and IMO, did a damn fine job of it. My daughter learned a tremendous amount that year.

Most parents and kids, however, gave her terrible grief, mostly because she didn't "fit in" with the other teachers who went out of their way to buddy up to the parents and bend over to please them. (You'd have to be familiar with this district, but trust me, the most beloved teachers aren't the best teachers.)

Parent satisfaction is a very poor way to measure teacher competence. Parents get pissed off with teachers for a variety of reasons that have nothing whatever to do with their teaching ability, and sometimes the best teachers are the least liked and appreciated by students and parents alike.

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MichiganVote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 06:46 PM
Response to Original message
13. I define excellence in any profession as striving to improve, to learn, to adapt
Unfortunately, too many people equate excellence with perfection.
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etherealtruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 06:48 PM
Response to Original message
14. I describe adequacy as ....
... showing up to work on a regular basis and performing your job competently. That is what is expected in any profession, simply providing the service you have been hired to provide is not excellence.

Excellence is going beyond what is required of you and doing it well. What this is will vary greatly from school district to school district. any measure of success is going to be different in an inner city school vs. an affluent sub-urban school.

An excellent teacher is going to engage their students, motivate and excite their students .... help their students develop critical thinking skills ... the list goes on. The degree this occurs is going to vary based upon the population they serve.
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fed_up_mother Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #14
91. I agree with your answer.
Edited on Thu Mar-12-09 09:41 PM by fed_up_mother
My kids had many adequate, competent teachers, and I mean that in a very positive way. We can't all be in the top five percentile, and we shouldn't expect that of our kids' teachers, either. :) However, they also had excellent teachers, and those teachers were thought provoking, motivating, challenging, and creative, despite their personal styles. One thing you will notice is that those teachers are not only motivating to students, but they are also highly motivating to other teachers. As a matter of fact, if I had to list one quality of the excellent teacher, that would be it. And they don't have to be all sunshine and smiles, but they are generally "pleasant." Some teachers took a highly personal interest in my kids (I'm talking about high school, here), while others didn't and were a bit more aloof, but that didn't matter if they were outstanding teachers. Teachers don't have to be buddies with their students to be effective, imo.

Bad teachers = lazy, generally speaking. They may or may not know their subject matter. They may or may not teach effectively when they do try. They may or may not have been excellent teachers at one time. Doesn't matter, though. In general, the bad teachers are simply "lazy." We also had a couple of bad teachers who were - sad to say - having mental problems. Serious mental problems.

Overall, we've had good to excellent teachers with only a couple of exceptions. How other teachers react to the "bad" teachers can tell you a lot about those teachers, though. Teachers who defend bad teachers tend never to be in the top tier. After two decades in public school, I can't bet the farm on that one. :)
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Auggie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 06:52 PM
Response to Original message
18. Maybe this is too simplistic,
but an excellent teacher would keep me enthralled.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
19. The kids learn--and LIKE IT
I was lucky enough to run into a few of those and I value them half a century later.
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. That may be the most valuable quality of all
and the hardest to judge. Teachers who could take a difficult subject and make it interesting to a difficult student = solid gold.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #19
24. They're really interested and it's contagious.
Yep. :)
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sense Donating Member (948 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #24
46. Yes!
Education is not the filling of a bucket, but the lighting of a fire.

Sorry, can't remember who said it.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #19
28. That would be the mark of an excellent student.
Not an excellent teacher.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #28
39. A student is usually only as good as his/her environment allows
him to be. Can't remember the last time I saw an excellent student enjoy an environment that failed him.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #39
42. I can't remember the last time...
that anybody who thought the mark of a good teacher was an interested student spent any more than one day teaching.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #42
47. Think of it as teaching someone how to ride a bike.
If you're succeeding, what people see is a bike rider -- not you in some kind of "I'm a great teacher" act.

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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #19
48. sometimes, to create a future well-functioning citizen,
you have to make kids do what they don't like. I have kids every year who aren't good at reading, and so don't like doing it. I try to make the thing engaging as I can, but at the end of the day, you have to know phonics.

We have a kid in class - not one of "mine", but a general ed kid - who is a poor reader and got put with me for reading. He tried to start a "Mr. Uly sucks as a teacher" insurgency last month, but in the last three days he's actually done what I asked him to and has had a few revelations regarding Gary Paulsen's Hatchet.

Of course, it isn't always this way. But sometimes it is.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #48
70. Good teachers will get kids to learn
The OP was about EXCELLENT teachers.
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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #70
71. sorry. I forgot that everyone comes to school ready to learn.
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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #70
74. just to clarify...
A teacher who gets a child who doesn't like reading and isn't good at it to comprehend and even show some mild interest in reading for pleasure is a good teacher.

A teacher who gets a child who is already a decent reader at minimum to love it is an excellent teacher.

Right?
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #74
86. That's your strawman
Now go play with him.
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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #86
87. no answer. check.
:)
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
20. Dedicated, qualified, fair, strict. nt
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 07:01 PM
Response to Original message
25. Wouldn't it be the same...
as any other job? How effective you are? How well you do your job?
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CatWoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 07:16 PM
Response to Original message
36. you
:)
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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #36
51. flattery will get you everywhere.
:D :loveya:
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #36
52.  . . .
:thumbsup:
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burythehatchet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #36
81. kiss-ass
:P
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proud patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 07:21 PM
Response to Original message
43. Teaching is not a black and white job .. too many varibles
bending to meet the child face to face.
someone who can make learning fun .
someone who is ready for anything at a moments notice.
someone who inspires passion and imagination.
someone who can entertain and will sing regardless
of how their voice sounds .
someone who knows the kids teach us lessons too.
someone who can fix boo boo's and inspire to try again
someone who can recognize a teachable moment and drop
everything else for that magical moment .

I'm a pre school teacher
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 07:21 PM
Response to Original message
44. Someone who is able to encourage their students to want to learn, to be excited about learning about
the world and their place in it.

Not sure how to measure that, but that is how I defined the teachers I had that were excellent. They listened, and challenged and were able to inspire most of us to be interested in whatever they were talking about, and in learning more and being excited about learning more. Sometimes we were inspired to learn more to show that teacher he/she was wrong. That was a good learning tool that I finally figured out, yrs later.
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msongs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 07:22 PM
Response to Original message
45. survives the day without being murdered by her ...pupils? nt
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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #45
53. that's just quick reflexes.
:D
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 07:27 PM
Response to Original message
50. One that gave me an 'A' ... or my kid an 'A'
I think that's what MOST folks, in effect, think it means. :shrug:

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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #50
54. given my experience today, it would include
"doesn't call me all the time because my child is being a knucklehead".
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #54
59. Did I ever tell you about the time my son destroyed his principal's straw hat?
lol

:rofl:

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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #59
66. I think I missed that one.
Do tell. :)
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #66
68. My Nick had a reading thing where he needed to get information aurally
and not from a blackboard or from a ditto. I didn't get it because I was working too much and no one thought to test him for those years. So, by the second grade, his behavior got bigger and bigger and bigger and he became the school bad guy minus the black leather jacket. One day he was disrupting in class so he was hauled to the principal's office.

Once there, he settled in and decided to continue on his crime spree by partially chewing and partially playing soccer with his principal's hat. It's a good thing I was only five minutes away or maybe he would have started in on the actual guy. He was 8. :crazy: Or maybe, we were :crazy: for not checking it out sooner.



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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #68
73. heh!
The hat's a new one on me, I'll admit. :D
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #73
75. That principal hated me more for walking into the scene of his humiliation
than he hated Nick for destroying his hat. lol

He also once called the police on Nick for taking sugar to school in a baggie after, I think, watching "Cops" one night. The principal told me very soberly that the "substance" had been turned into the police.

It was my fault for not knowing enough or for not paying enough attention I guess. (Who knew 8 years old could deal suger?) But at least I wasn't a weenie at work. :)
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #50
55. Really? I've always been a devotee so have no grip on what
normal people think. lol

Isn't it a two-stepper? They remember the grade but also Mr. SoNSo? Sort of like a binomial?

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LibDemAlways Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #50
62. I took on a six week substitute job earlier this
year, stepping in for a 7th grade English/Reading teacher who was on maternity leave. Every day I would receive e-mails from anxious parents questioning my every move. Many were especially disgruntled when their little darlings earned less than an "A."

I think if you asked those parents for their definition of a good teacher, it would indeed be "one who gives my child good grades." Teachers seem to be obliging, too. Fully 1/3 of my daughter's high school class of 330 students is on the honor role - GPA 3.5 or above! Either I live in an area of exceptionally bright students, or teachers are caving in to parent demands for straight A's.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #62
63. Can I ask, what level you were teaching?
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LibDemAlways Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #63
96. Three remedial reading classes, one Language Arts
Edited on Thu Mar-12-09 11:16 PM by LibDemAlways
class with a mix of students of varying levels, and a History class with the same mix.
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Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #62
83. And that's going to be a BIG problem when the level of
expectations is raised across the board, nation wide. But, I think it's about time and long overdue.
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hellbound-liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 07:42 PM
Response to Original message
58. I think an excellent teacher is able to communicate a love of learning to his/ her students
and a desire to learn more about the subject that is being taught. I think excellent teachers are able to instill in their students a sense of anticipation about the positive learning experiences that are likely to take place on any given day and make them eager to get to class.
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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #58
64. Yes. I agree
I think the most important quality that the best teachers I encountered or my children encountered were those whose love of learning was contagious. Who spurred the same in kids - regardless sometimes of the actual curriculum.

I never did well in science in school. It was always horrifyingly boring - lots of memorization, no connection to the real world. I now have an in-law who was a teacher. She's not now, but she is, if you know what I mean. All of the kids in our family adore her (adults too), and when she talks about something: biology, astronomy, whatever - it's exciting. It's fascinating. It's the most important thing you could be listening to and learning in the world at that moment. It's largely her enthusiasm - connected to a whip smart mind and the ability to transfer that to others. But it showed me what I'd missed all those years!
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hellbound-liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #64
72. I never really appreciated science until I got out of school. Probably for the same reasons.
Edited on Thu Mar-12-09 08:12 PM by hellbound-liberal
Now, I am fascinated by anything scientific. I keep hearing students complaining abut their difficult science classes and how they hate them and I think it is because of the approach that is taken in teaching it. Like you said, a lot of rote meorization. I was able to teach science in a self-contained special ed class and it was great. I kept the kids engaged with hands-on experiments and videos that did relate to their lives. It makes all the difference, IMO.
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Pale Blue Dot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 07:53 PM
Response to Original message
65. Today I told my students that I park my karma in my garagema.
I'm not sure I can get any more excellent.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #65
67. That's a case of excellentitis if I ever saw one.
:)
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Fresh_Start Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 08:08 PM
Response to Original message
69. Here's part of a 35 year old list of requirements
for excellence in teaching

Discussing Points of View Other Than Your Own
Discussing Recent Developments
Giving References
Emphasizing Conceptual Understanding
Explaining Clearly
Being Well Prepared
Summarizing Major Points
Identifying What You Consider Important
Encouraging Class Discussion
Inviting Students to Share their Knowledge and Experiences
Inviting Criticism of Your Own Ideas
Knowing If the Class Is Understanding You
Having Students Apply Concepts
Giving Personal Help to Students
Relating to Students
Being Accessible
Having an Interesting Presentation Style
Motivating Students' Best Work
Giving Interesting Assignments
Giving Exams Demonstrating Student Understanding
Keeping Students Informed of Their Progress

I've removed a few which I didn't find compelling or thought were redundant. But for the most part, I'd say the list is still relevant.
http://teaching.berkeley.edu/compendium/sectionsmenu.html
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1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 08:24 PM
Response to Original message
76. proud2BlibKansan. that's how i define it...
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kiva Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 08:34 PM
Response to Original message
77. One of the problems I have with this question is that different
teachers are excellent for different students. I'm not just talking about easy v. hard, but about the idea that a teacher that can really reach some students can absolutely miss the mark with others. It isn't as simple as being a good or bad (or excellent) teacher--there are some gifted educators who can inspire all of their students, and some dolts who reach no one--but the majority of teachers will be tuned into some, not all, of their students. So the question is how many students are needed to give that excellent award? If a teacher can inspire the outgoing, active kids but not the more introspective students, is that teacher excellent? Is a teacher who works well with students who have a variety of disabilities, but not with other kids an excellent teacher? Given the variety of any student population, I think we need to be flexible in these assessments.
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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #77
79. ah, for the ability to K&R a post.
:thumbsup:
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kiva Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #79
84. Thank you. I have always enjoyed your posts,
so your comment is a compliment indeed.:hi:
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LibDemAlways Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #77
97. I recently had dinner with an old high school friend. We
started reminiscing about our experiences back then, and the subject of teachers came up. I had a World History teacher in 10th grade I felt was atrocious. She would draw endless timelines on the board and just about killed history for me. I was shocked when my friend said that particular teacher was her favorite and had actually motivated her to become a history major in college.

You are right. The bane of one student's existence can very well be another's ongoing inspiration.

Thanks for a thoughtful post.
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JackDragna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 08:39 PM
Response to Original message
78. Opinion from a secondary teacher.
Excellence in teaching comes from a number of factors. In no particular order, the best teachers I've seen empathize with students, are masters of their material, get all students involved, consistently challenge the students, keep the class focused and are always willing to accept criticism of their methods.
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burythehatchet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 08:42 PM
Response to Original message
80. A great teacher is one who can keep a student engaged in thought
on a subject of the teacher's choosing.
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sakura Donating Member (660 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 08:48 PM
Response to Original message
82. I've worked with many "excellent" teachers.
Let me describe one I am working with now. She teaches sixth grade at an inner city school with an impoverished student population. The entire school qualifies for free and reduced lunch and the kids are from multi-generational poverty-- in other words, it's the culture they are used to. Most do not have someone to read to them from birth, to give them opportunities outside of school in which to think and learn, etc. The school does its best-- a nonprofit has volunteers to come in to read with kids from kindergarten, and there is an excellent after school program. But it doesn't take the place of parents who are missing because of working two to three jobs, not understanding how the school culture works, being addicted to drugs, in jail, etc. This teacher is the testing and technology coordinator for the school and also has five classes of twenty eight kids per class. About 1/2 are identified as special ed, and therefore need federally mandated modifications to their lessons (and the mods differ for each kid), another 1/4 are emotionally disturbed (but mainstreamed, so she deals with their issues in the classroom) and the other 1/4 haven't yet tuned in to learning, although she is doing her best to make this happen. Her principal specifically asked her to take on teaching this grade as compared to the other grades it has more problems than usual. She is recognized as the best, yet she is still having problems with these kids. She works twelve hour days and works weekends. She is single and her life revolves around her kids. She gives and gives and gives. If she could give her blood I know she would do so.

She is amazing.

Despite this, many of her kids won't pass the state assessment this year. Last year 50% of these kids passed their fifth grade state assessment in math and reading. In writing only 40%. The scores haven't changed much over the past three years, but NCLB mandates 100% passing by 2014. That's all groups, by the way. Think they'll get there? This teacher has done more than many teachers, but a good number of the kids still are not on grade level in reading and math. So based on NCLB, she fails. And based on the merit schemes that have been tried by states in the past, she wouldn't qualify for merit pay. Worse in most schemes teachers have to compete for a limited number of merit awards with other teachers. I've seen it happen-- it ends collaboration.

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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #82
85. exactly fucking so.
I've been in a similar school. Lots of folks, superb teachers, have and are still.
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Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #82
88. Great observation. This situation sums up the majority of
of urban schools across America. Some problems can be eliminated with glasses, food and even clothing. But, in many cases, it is the psychological and emotional problems that are barriers. People forget that we have a generation of 'babies having babies.' Remember what the illiteracy rate is in this country, many of these parents want to help their children and can't. Sure, Obama, Michelle, Duncan, all came from humble beginnings, but their parents were educated, for the most part. They could read and do basic math.

I'm hoping that Duncan's after school programs and sponsors will pick up the slack. We've had after school tutoring programs for years along with Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, chess club, athletics, etc., with no significant improvement. At least, not on the scale that Duncan is talking about. It's a beautiful vision, I hope it works.
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Mr Generic Other Donating Member (362 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 09:44 PM
Response to Original message
92. good teachers like teaching and they like their students.
Edited on Thu Mar-12-09 09:48 PM by Mr Generic Other
it helps if they have a broad range of interests and knowledge and possess the ability to engage students in developing a variety of skills and interests. but beyond that a good teacher is hard to define.
almost no one can reach everyone and one teacher will reach certain students while other teachers connect with another bunch of kids.
any teacher can appear lax or unorganized at any given moment or even for a day but most often they will provide a safe and stimulating environment for students to master the skills appropriate for the curriculum.
it is much easier, as it is for any person or group, to define teachers by what we believe they are not. such as abusive, cruel, or spiteful. clearly no one desires these qualities in a teacher. and there are other equally obvious traits one would not want in a teacher but beyond that good teachers come in all varieties. these good teachers can be found in every sort of classroom around america but they are also found in homes, churches, and on playgrounds.
every child needs several of these types in their lives (best if it is the entire childhood, adolescence, and young adulthood)but sadly not every child is this lucky.
there have been many studies that link a students poor school performance to poverty or home-life disruption. currently 50% of america's school children live at or below the federal poverty level. a recent study suggests that one out of every fifty school children spends some of their school age years homeless. many children experience situations much worse than poverty.
it is tough to engage a student in academic pursuits when they are worried about surviving.
combine this with 40 years of funding neglect, bad-mouthing by the media and a variety of reform mandates designed to undermine the integrity of schools and it is no wonder so many of our students are not doing well.
the correlation between family economy and school success is well established. while it is true that with hard work and the right student these handicaps can be overcome we have been blaming teachers for what is the fault of economic policy makers.
teachers are not cause of poor school performance. our culture does not value education and very few are truly educated. even most "highly educated" specialists only know a lot about a little. specialist is another term for fragmented. and that is our highest expectation.
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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 10:34 PM
Response to Original message
95. increasing student scholastic behaviors, raising test scores, motivating students to learn outside

the classroom.
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