Aw shit, Mr. O

[unhappycamper]

I remember the evening of November 4, 2008 as clear as a bell, and remember thinking that that 16-month clock on Iraq will start ticking soon. I was joyous about Bu$h/Cheney and the possibility of war crimes trials. I even had hopes that warrentless wiretapping and signing statements would be a thing of the past and that those responsible would be held accountable.

Boy, was I wrong. Mr. O loaded up on a team of (Lobbyist) rivals and hit the ground (kind of) running. Quite honestly, the Geithner / Goldman Sacks connection bothers me, but what the hay. He can’t be any worse than Paulson. Right?

My cookies got seriously frosted when Mr. O changed his Out-Of-Iraq in 16-months to leaving 35,000 to 50,000 boots on the ground at the end of 19 months. I’m not happy with this decision, but what-the-hell, the United States government was essentially a fascist dictatorship run by bu$hCo. So anything is better than what we had. Right?

When the DOJ released the Yoo / Bybee memos I thought “Good. Now we can begin prosecuting these criminals.” I got stiffed on that one too.

What bothers me most is how much the Obama administration looks like the bu$h administration. Government secrets, National Security secrets, warrentless wiretapping, $1 trillion dollar military budgets, and two occupations heading south do not a happy feeling make. Mr. O does a lot of things I agree with, but this occupation thing needs to change. And I don't mean shoveling more troops into the fray. The Russians got their collective asses kicked out of Afghanistan and they were right next door. We've got to fly most of our stuff halfway around the world to put it into a soldier's hands. Talk about a long supply line.

Aw shit, Mr. O. It appears you’re stepping into some serious doo doo, and I’m getting a bad feeling about this.

[WI_DEM]

1. yes, Obama administration looks so much like th eBush administration.

[Windy]

4. Seriously? You better take another look. n/t

[Sebass1271]

2. oh brother... what else is new? woke up in wrong side of the bed?

i hear you, McCain/Palin would be so much better!!

*sight

[unhappycamper]

5. Don't get me wrong; I'm pleased Mr. O won the election.

But I'm not overly pleased about some of the choices he's making, especially with the occupations.

BTW, a box of rocks is a better choice than McCain / Palin.

[GreenPartyVoter]

9. Don't you know that any time you question Obama's choices the automatic

DU pennant-waving response is to go right to "McCain/Palin would be so much better"?

This is 'Murika. We don't get to question our duly elected leaders' choices here. :eyes:

[sharp_stick]

10. And the automatic reply from

from folks like you bitching about automatic replies, perhaps often it's just you, usually beats them to it so there ya go.

[GreenPartyVoter]

11. Yeah, it's just me. No one else has a problem with being told that

they shouldn't criticize the president's choices. :eyes:

[paulk]

23. criticism is one thing

saying that the Obama admin resembles the Bush admin is just stupid.

[lostnotforgotten]

26. On Iraq / Afghanistan / National Security Issues The Two Administrations Do Resemble One Another

eom

[frogcycle]

33. and well they should

one should not read into current careful steps to change direction a duplicitous long-term strategy.

Some things can be changed abruptly. I am pretty sure if President Obama could wind back the clock and not be in Afghanistan and Iraq at all, he would. But as he has said repeatedly, "we have to be as careful getting out as we were reckless in getting in." He can sign an executive order to do a 180 on stem cell research or drilling in wilderness areas, but abrupt moves in the foreign military engagements could be like moving an accident victim with a neck injury. You gotta be extremely careful you don't make it worse. That does not mean you don't intend to help them.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

45. Your insight and farsight much appreciated.

I just don't get the expectation that extremely complex, hazardous situations should be resolved overnight with drastic antidotes.

Such eagerness goes against prudent, mature logic.

[tomp]

35. on my #1 issue obama=bush.

my #1 issue, above ALL others, is the prosecution of bush/cheney, inc. obama could have and should have had an indictment on day 1 for warrantless wiretapping. bush confessed on national tv. it is a slam dunk case. what does he do? at every turn he defends bush in court.

if he lets them go he's as bad as they are, AND america will suffer. you cannot solve any of the problems in america if you allow any corruption in govt. it is the slipperiest of slopes and obama has got both feet on it.

[leftchick]

31. I call it the Thelma & Louise Theory

heading off that cliff at 90 mph vs 45 mph. There is still a cliff.

[rvablue]

19. You do know, right, that using the initial of his last name is a Freeper meme?

If this is the first you've been told, then please stop.

[unhappycamper]

36. Naw, I didn't know that.

So where did the Mr. O come from?

I was watching the Turner Classic Movie channel and the famous line "Say it ain't so, Joe" came up. I thought it had a nice ring to it so I changed Joe to Mr. O and here we are.

[tangent90]

7. Who said that? Not the OP. Did you maybe dream it?

...

[Connie_Corleone]

3. I should've known better than to dive into General Discussion today.

[acmavm]

6. I at least thought that he would show the world that America was

not the pariah nation that bush** & cheney made us into. I thought that since he seems to be such a man of decency and integrity, that he would not hesitate a heartbeat to make things right, to prosecute and convict the murdering thugs from the last admin.

I was wrong.

[dave29]

8. you are aptly named

.

[RufusTFirefly]

12. Worse than shouting "Ralph Nader!" in a crowded theater

Shame on you, unhappycamper!

Please check your brain with the attendant and return to the designated Free Speech Zone.


You will be notified shortly before the next election when we will once again require your assistance.

[formercia]

13. I'm still under surveillance

I was hoping that would stop too and I could get on with my life.

[starroute]

14. We're got to acknowledge certain things aren't going right

I'm getting the feeling that certain forces are acting on Obama similar to those that dragged Kennedy into the Bay of Pigs fiasco three months into his presidency.

I figure it's like this: Obama comes into office, he has particular areas that he's familiar with and passionate about, and those are going well.

But he also gets hit by a lot of military and intelligence people sharing all the scary secret information he was never privy to as a mere Senator and telling him that he absolutely has to do this, that, or the other if he doesn't want the nation to be at risk.

Same thing economically -- I expect his advisers are telling him we're in far worse shit than anybody has been letting on publicly and that as a result there are certain things which seem obvious to us that he shouldn't even thing about doing, like asking to actually see the banks' balance sheets.

I don't like it, but I'm not sure what can be done about it -- beyond hoping that Obama is also seeking out people to tell him the exact opposite of what all the old hands are saying.

We do need to keep speaking up about it, though. Obama is getting hammered from the right on all their pet issues, and we do him no favors by keeping mum on the liberal side. That just leaves his flank unguarded during a very vulnerable period of his presidency.

[RufusTFirefly]

16. Luckily, Kennedy refused to take the Bay of Pigs bait

The CIA and the military intended to use it as a pretext for a full-scale invasion. But in one of this country's finest moments, JFK stood fast and refused to be blackmailed into starting World War III.

And that's why, even at a spry, twinkly-eyed 91 years of age now, former President Kennedy remains an inspiration to many Americans.

[HamdenRice]

30. FINALLY, someone frames criticism of Obama in an intelligent way! Thanks!

It is stupefying to me that so many DUers seem to think that the president is some sort of king who can snap his fingers and make the war go away on his timetable or who can solve the financial crisis without bailing out the banks.

Of course he came in having to compromise with the Washington establishment, or more precisely the many establishments -- military/intelligence, financial, lobbyists, and so on. The thing to keep in mind is his starting point, which is, he's going to bargain for the best deal to implement his progressive ideals, unlike every administration since the end of Carter, each of which had the starting point of turning over government to the corporate, military and financial powers (and in the case of Clinton, while begging for a few incremental reforms).

Ironically the same poutragists who are wheeping and gnashing their teeth at Obama's failure to instantly implement a full uncompromised Kucinich agenda "because he's president" (ie monarch) are also whining that Obama is not giving away all the powers of the presidency.

Your post really should be reposted as a thread of its own!

[burythehatchet]

39. And your post should be help up as an example of how build straw men

and how to bully others to toe the line.

"Obama's failure to instantly implement a full uncompromised Kucinich agenda "

GET BENT


on edit: centrist, middle-o-the-roaders are the putrid vile that enable Republicans to do what they do.

[leftchick]

32. how quaint

that does not explain why he picked his DLC/Corporate/wall street boys/MIC advisers in the first place. Where the hell is Howard Dean or anyone else remotely progressive?

[starroute]

43. He picked them because he expected they could get things done

I don't know if that will prove to be a good idea in the long run or a major error -- but it's pretty clear that Howard Dean doesn't have a lot of clout inside the Beltway and that Obama is setting out to fix problems and do it fast. That's why he wanted a Rahm Emanuel who could apply some muscle to Congress as needed. That's why he wanted people at Treasury who could speak to Wall Street in their own language. It's why he's trying not to shake up the Justice Department the way Clinton did by firing all 100 US Attorneys at once.

Is Obama sacrificing long-term ideals in the name of immediate results? I don't know -- and only time will tell. Is his real plan to pass essential reforms that most of the nation can get behind over the next year and then parlay that success into remaking Congress more in his own mold in 2010 and backing up the short-range fixes with some long-range programs of the sort that fundamentally redirect an entire society? Perhaps -- but again, only time will tell.

But whatever Obama may be thinking right at the moment, and whatever the future holds, I think our only winning strategy is to imagine the best, most honorable, and more genuinely progressive Obama we can -- and then use all our powers of communication to make sure that Obama is the one we get.

The right destroyed Carter by making him look like a weakling and a failure. They blamed double-digit inflation on him, circulated killer-rabbit stories that made him seem like a wimp, undermined him on the intelligence front, and then used his ineffectuality in the Iran hostage crisis as a knockout blow.

They tried to do the same thing to Clinton -- remember the early "failed Clinton administration" meme? -- and when that didn't work they turned to pounding him with a combination of the culture wars and fears of big government.

They're still groping around where Obama is concerned, since they've already tried the anti-Carter (remember "Obambi"?) and the anti-Clinton strategies and neither has gained any traction -- and falling back on even older appeals to fear of communism has proved even lamer. The one tack that does show some promise for the right is trying to stir up a brew of both right-wing and left-wing populism and paint Obama as being in bed with Wall Street and selling out ordinary Americans.

It's the Obama-as-corrupt-sellout meme that seems most dangerous to me, and that's why we have to walk a very fine line by criticizing any mistakes on his part or tendencies to go along with business as usual while turning back propagandistic suggestions that he's fundamentally in the pocket of the bad guys.

[leftchick]

46. you make very good points

you should be on Obama's team. Seriously! :)

At any rate I myself am a cynical Susan and will remain that way until we have a true democracy or I am dead.

[Gregorian]

15. Hang in there.

I hate seeing someone who is concerned getting replies like a gauntlet.

By virtue of the number of people involved, this garbage barge called America is slow to maneuver. How's that for an analogy?

For those of us with common sense, and vision, this has been a rotten ride. I think these last 8 years were America's worst. But I don't know much about history.

OK, now it's back to excavation. My tractor keeps me sane.


By the way, it's most likely that Obama knows what evil lurks in the dark around him. He's walking on match sticks. I would also bet that Cheney's assassination gang is a reality. And Obama knows this stuff. You can't rock things too much. I for one have wanted huge changes. I mean as far back as the 70's. We may never live long enough.

[Usrename]

17. Giving his blessing to Rumsfeld's crimes is appalling.

It is so disappointing.

[stlsaxman]

18. yeah Mr. O sure is one lyin'-ass bitch... "Change"??? ha!!1! I call BULLSH1T!!!

:eyes:

[napoleon_in_rags]

20. You got to remember your Orwell.

Give the people 2+2=4 and the rest will follow. The mess that was the Bush administration is really a complex of things, dependent on each other all requiring each other to exist. The fact that Obama has made so many good changes is part of a necessary chain reaction, central to which is the economy. The bottom line is this: It is *impossible* for the wars to continue as they have, the curtains of denial and secrecy to be raised as they have, and to really fix this economy at the same time. If he takes on ANY good path in fixing this country, it will lead him inevitably to deal with all the other major errors of the Bush administration.

[upi402]

21. True, but we knew this, And Kucinich was too flakey?

Obama has been better than I feared after seeing the DLC foxes in the chicken coup.

As for the Afghans, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fabian_strategy

[FlyingSquirrel]

22. We all have a bad feeling about a lot of things...

For some reason I have this horrible feeling that Obama will be the last president of the U.S.

[Senator]

24. K&R

[DCKit]

25. He's not stepping into it as much as he's not stepping OUT of it.

Even the Republics are assuming he's got eight years to clean up this mess, so why are we even breathing heavily? They've got nothing but hollow criticism amplified by the MSM, and even that's failing them.

[frogcycle]

34. not JUMPING out of it is more like it n/t

[rcrush]

27. Criticising decisions isnt a bad thing.

Its just that some people here like to lay it on real fuckin thick. The "Oh fuck we've been lied to! He's just like Bush!" and the hate. The OP isnt as bad as most people but saying he resembles Bush is silly.

I'm gonna hold my own crazy wing nut outbursts until he's proven he's a bad president. But I do agree that these decisions he's made dont look good. But its only been 2 months, maybe it takes a little longer to fix a mess that it took Bush 8 years to create?

[NJmaverick]

28. your problem is that you have failed to realize "Mr. O" is PRESIDENT O

He is in charge and is doing a very good job. It's easy to snipe, like you are. It's actually far more difficult to take the reigns and actual go about solving problems, like he is.

[graywarrior]

29. Why do I click on these?

[No.23]

48. My virtual bumper sticker:

"Don't blame me. I took Ralph Nader's and Ron Paul's advice... http://video.google.com/videosearch?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&hs=DpB&q=nader%20paul&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wv# ... and voted for neither of them."

[proud2BlibKansan]

37. I keep telling myself it could have been McCain

Some days it's the only thing that keeps me from bashing my head into the nearest wall.

[SlingBlade]

38. An Important Discussion K & R

[burythehatchet]

40. You vill step in line and you vill like it

This conversation is immediate cause for the torch and pitchfork brigade to come out in full force. On DU you will the party loyalists, the apparatchiks and the mirror of the 19% that still like Bush.


oh yeah, YOU VILL NOT SAY "MR" O you VILL SAY PRESIDENT O AND YOU VILL LIKE IT.

[Dinger]

41. Heh Heh

:evilgrin:

[SammyWinstonJack]

44. .

:evilgrin:

[FLAprogressive]

51. the party loyalist faction (aka DLC) is the worst.

[Mari333]

42. I agree with your concerns about Mr O

and I can call him that if I want,he works for me. I am not surprised , however...his surge in Afghanistan and what you described are what I expected...thats why I had hoped for Kucinich, but now I will continue to protest the continued chest thumping war policies that got us into this mess we cannot seem to get out of. that includes the military costs bankrupting the country.
peace out.

[change_notfinetuning]

47. Im not saying my honeymoon with Obama is over, but

like the wife in the movie "The Heartbreak Kid", I am feeling a little burned and he's out flirting with my rivals, making new plans with them even. His bank bailouts to save the bankers who got us in this mess, even if not the banks, are billion and trillioning us to death, while doing nothing to protect us from these userers. His ill-advised Iraq (that depends what getting out means) and Afghanistan plans will succeed only if failure and wasting money are the goals. No escalation of troops will result in a change to hearts and minds, but it will make more enemies to fight in the future. He has virtually ruled out any possibility of single-payer health care. Stay the course and all that. These are all thing that would more than likely have been done by McCain, too. Is he better than McCain? Of course, but we may have to wait until the Supreme Court needs an appointee to see how.

Speeches are not actions. I can only go on what he has done, and I am disappointed. With all DU respect, when you are done shaking your pompoms and yelling yourself hoarse in support of Obama, think what your reaction would be if McCain were the president and had done the same things. You'd all be screaming.

No one was happier than I was when he won the nomination, and then the election against John McCain. I was thrilled to be able to vote FOR a candidate, rather than for the lesser of two evils, something that's happened only a few times since my first time voting in 1972. The one thing I never considered even once is the thing I feared most about a Hillary Clinton nomination - that, with Obama, we would have elected the best Republican possible. I still have hope, but I also wonder.

[Alcibiades]

49. The list of things he's done that make me happy

is longer than the list of things that have made me unhappy. Lack of Democratic support undermined Carter at a critical juncture, and enabled Reagan and all that came after.

[truth2power]

50. I agree, Camper. Ignore those who are trying to invalidate what you say..

Ya' know, I don't understand why those who complain that the Republicans vote in a bloc and march in lock-step then expect Dems to do what they so detest in others.

And for those who say, essentially, "Would you rather have McCain?", well, that's a fallacious argument at best. Of course I wouldn't want McCain, or Palin <shudder>. But we had, basically, two choices. So, there ya' go!

I voted for Obama with the full expectation that he would remedy the more egregious of Bush's predations on this nation. I had an Obama sign in my yard, and the day after the election I went to the local party supply store and purchased red, white and blue balloons which I attached to the sign. (Yeah, it was kind of an 'in your face' to some of my neighbors). I was energized thinking of the possibilities.

Undoubtedly, Obama has made some positive changes already. But there isn't a day that goes by that I don't say to myself, "Wha'?" The filthy criminals and treasonous bastards who all but destroyed our Constitution are still out there, and Obama says we need to look forward? Something wrong with that picture, IMO.

The issues you raised above in your next to last paragraph concern me, too.

[FLAprogressive]

52. Kick....we were punked big time, I fear.

[octocat lady]

53. Whoa...stop the presses...

The FISA deal was BEFORE THE ELECTION, the plan to up the ante in Afghanistan was BTE, the changing in the income minimum was raised BTE.

I voted for "Mr. O," but I also raised concerns about his policies wayyyy before today.

Sorry, we already knew what the deal was.