Reality: Public Schools Serve The Purpose Of

[NashVegas]

Poll question: Reality: Public Schools Serve The Purpose Of

[salvorhardin]

1. I don't think those choices are necessarily orthogonal

In fact, I should go so far as to say that A implies B.

[Fumesucker]

3. Maybe not *completely* orthagonal

But if you think leadership really and truly wants a citizenry that is capable of independent thought and analysis I have an incredible deal for you in pre-owned bridge properties in NYC. Small, unmarked bills please.

[salvorhardin]

5. I didn't say that

...if you think leadership really and truly wants a citizenry that is capable of independent thought and analysis...

I didn't say anything about that. I said that your choices are not independent of each other. I further said that B is somewhat dependent on A. I'll go even further and say that A is also somewhat dependent on B. To put it simply, I think your poll is a false dichotomy.

[exboyfil]

8. I think the biggest problem with public schools are the parents

Many do not take the education of their children seriously. Schools should focus on the kids (and their parents) who most take school seriously.

I think a system of competitive streaming should be employed (much like Europe). The standards for achieving the higher level course should be clearly layed out and assessments should be given at the end of each year to determine the placement of the child for the following year. Kids of like aptitude and motivation should be grouped together as much as possible to reduce the disruption from those kids who are less motivated. Parents should be clearly told what is happening and why and given the opportunity to assist their children in preparation for these assessments. It is up to the parents to figure out the implications for their children.

My 7th grader commented to me the other day that she was disappointed in her Classical History course. Her disappointment was not because the course was boring (she loves the material) or that the teacher was hard. It was with her peers who are so disruptive that it prevents my daughter's teacher to more fully explore the material with the class. He apparently has few tools to restore order. I don't know if he is allowed to do this, but I think the school district should give the teachers authority to remove these students (even to the point of requiring them to repeat the class (maybe in the summer) which I would assume be the final motivation to their parents to ensure their children come to school prepared to learn (or at least be quiet and let others learn).

Do people really think that the public school system is in a conspiracy with business leaders to create a dumbed down workforce? What I see in my district are a lot of parents who are fully engaged with their children's education and a lot of parents that are absent from such consideration. Somehow we need to at least get the disruptive kids to the point in which they at least sit still and try to learn. My daughter's History teacher then would have time to explore more than just the dry facts which need to be learned about Classical History (they only half a half semester on the subject anyway). This class is a perfect opportunity to help children begin to think outside the box.

What I have also seen are some teachers who have skill deficit areas. In particular I think of my daughter's sixth grade teacher who, except for math, did a good job. Unfortunately, in my opinion, Math, in particular getting as many kids as possible prepared to take Algebra in eight grade, is the most important function of a higher elementary teacher. Her opinion seemed to be either you are good in math or you are not.

I am wondering at what time did a golden age exist in which everyone was able to sit around and be self actualized. That a society had the resources to say to you, if you want to be an artistic painter, then go be a painter. We will send you a check from the government by taxing the work of those who are actualized in productive areas (ie the house painters for example). I wonder how long it will be for the house painter to realize he really does not like the art produced by his artistic cousin, and question why a portion of his paycheck is being forcibly taken away to assure his cousin's self actualization.

At the end of the day people have to perform functions that produce things that others are willing to pay for. As we move further from that concept society will eventually implode.

[surrealAmerican]

12. What you are suggesting is NOT a new concept in this country either.

It's usually called "tracking", and has been largely abandoned by schools, especially in the earlier grades, because it does have a tendency to discourage children who are in the "low achieving" groups.

[treestar]

22. If art has no value

Why is it important to most civilized societies? An artist expresses that society. There is a market for it anyway, so it's also "productive."

If only "productive" things mattered, then we'd be very dull indeed.

[FormerDittoHead]

2. How about warehousing kids until they're capable of looking after themselves?

I remember that's what it felt like for a lot of the time for me...

[NashVegas]

4. That Goes Under #2

[FormerDittoHead]

7. No. I was "molded" to hate authority by the time I got out.

Of course, this was during the Vietnam war and the draft, so maybe I wouldn't be such a rebel in today's world.

It's amazing how different things were when you thought your life may be in the hands of other people and you wouldn't have control over it.

[omega minimo]

23. how did you get from rebel to (former) dittohead?

:hi:

[Lost in CT]

6. You forgot babysitters so mom can work....nt

[Cairycat]

9. Cookie-cutter conformity

It always seemed to me that the whole purpose was to enforce conformity, to make more docile consumers and workers. So I guess that's the second option.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

10. As H.L. Mencken said....

"And what is a good citizen? Simply one who never says, does or thinks anything that is unusual. Schools are maintained in order to bring this uniformity up to the highest possible point. A school is a hopper into which children are heaved while they are still young and tender; therein they are pressed into certain standard shapes and covered from head to heels with official rubber-stamps."

[mainer]

11. As opposed to madrassas or moms who only teach the bible?

Public schools serve the purpose of providing a free education to every child who attends them -- and to exposing those kids to a wide range of other races, cultures, and religions. Public schools open the eyes of children who would otherwise be insulated from the outside world. Public schools teach skills in socializing, group dynamics, and just plain getting along with people unlike yourself.

Home schools are dependent on the skills of ONE teacher, who may or may not be the best person for the job. Depending on the motives of the parent, home schools can either be amazingly wonderful educational experiences -- or the equivalent of keeping a kid locked away from society so they won't hear anything or learn anything that might go against the parent's philosophy.

You can't paint public schools as all bad -- just as you can't paint home schooling as all good.

[XemaSab]

13. For all this ballyhooed learning about diversity

I learned racism in the public schools, which I have tried to overcome.

I also learned how nasty, petty, stupid, and mean people are.

Maybe if I hadn't gone to public school I would be a little more generous towards people, but such as it were, I have a very short tether for bullshit.

[mainer]

14. So the solution is shut down the public schools?

And perhaps you actually learned something valuable in public school. As opposed to growing into adulthood and never really learning about how different people may be from each other.

I have a feeling that racism is just as alive and well in private schools.

[NashVegas]

15. I Learned a Great Deal of Value in Public School

Mostly what I learned was the value of learning; what I was taught there was merely a spring board for independent study.

But that's not really the point of the poll.

There is a reform movement afoot, and at this time, it is imperative to press leaders at all levels of the government *and* local Chambers of Commerce to come straight out and go on the record about why we have and fund public schools. I don't know about your town, but in mine, there's not a single school board member who wasn't fully endorsed by the Chamber. We need to demand accountability.

One hundred + years ago, the business community told the education community, "we need engineers." The results got us GE, Ford, and Ma Bell and some good livelihoods for the people whose labor made the products - until their jobs were shipped overseas.

Twenty five - thirty years ago, the business community said, "we need computer engineers." The results got us Microsoft, IBM, Sun, and Apple. In return, those laborers made a good living - initially, and then their jobs were shipped overseas, too.

What does business need for 2020?

[mainer]

16. I loved my public school experience in California

I was placed in the gifted student track. Learned to play the violin in orchestra class. Met youngsters I never would have met otherwise, of every race. I never had a truly lousy teacher -- perhaps there was one here and there who was burned out and teaching on automatic pilot, but none who could douse my enthusiasm for learning. And most of my teachers were my best cheerleaders. I went on to get a doctorate degree. And this from a school district that was strictly working class, with a lot of naval housing kids thrown in.

Schools are what the students -- and parents -- make of them.

[treestar]

21. But then if people are nasty and petty, one needs to know that

[proud2BlibKansan]

24. I went to private school during the Civil Rights era

A couple of the girls in my class cheered when Dr King was killed.

[dem629]

17. Dating scene.

[lumberjack_jeff]

18. Yup. Everyone whose chosen to be a teacher says that #2 is the reason why.

:eyes:

[callous taoboy]

19. A poll worthy of FAUX news....

[treestar]

20. From the 50s it would seem to be the second

In school in the 60s and 70s everything was about conformity. What you wore to school was more important than what you learned. Sports was also more important - the learning to compete as a team player angle.