52 Catholic churches to close in Cleveland

[samplegirl]

Published: March 14, 2009 at 11:21 PMOrder reprints | Feedback
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CLEVELAND, March 14 (UPI) -- Catholic Church officials say a round of closings and consolidation will result in a net loss of 52 parishes next year in the Diocese of Cleveland.

Local church officials were being notified of the plan Saturday, WKYC-TV, Cleveland, reported. Cleveland Bishop Richard Lennon announced Saturday that the changes would be effective June 30, 2010.

Of the dioceses' 224 parishes, 29 are to be closed and 41 are to merge with neighboring parishes, resulting in the establishment of 18 new combined parishes. The new parishes will probably have new names, the TV station said.

Pastors were to read the bishop's special delivery letter to congregants Saturday evening and Sunday morning.
http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2009/03/14/52_Catholic_churches_to_close_in_Cleveland/UPI-43221237087283/


The Diocese of Cleveland scheduled a news conference for Sunday morning to discuss details of the reorganization plan, which is a consequence of a shortage of clergy, falling collections from parishioners and changing demographics, The (Cleveland) Plain Dealer reported.

[Name removed]

1. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[patrice]

2. The only REAL universal Christian church has no walls, no property, and no leader but Jesus. nt

[Joe Chi Minh]

22. Nevertheless, you should bear in mind that, despite the Synagogue of his day

appalling him beyond measure, and his stricture that the people should not imitate what its leaders did, but, since they occupied the Chair of Moses, to do what they said, he attended the Synagogue, and remained a formally-practising Jew.

[patrice]

24. Until his church and his state colluded to kill him.

[Joe Chi Minh]

32. Precisely. And of which, of course, he had foreknowledge.

[patrice]

33. Point. And, a church without walls, property, or leader, other than Jesus, does not mean

that there is no church. It only means that it is more universal.

[Joe Chi Minh]

36. One is the de facto, formal Church deliberately instituted by Christ, so for all

its scandalous history, it is not an aberration. It was always intended to contain tares as well as wheat, edible fish and other marine life, until Judgment Day, when they would be sorted out and consigned to their respective fates. The other Church is the REAL, universal Church as you describe it, the eternal Church, i.e the Mystical Body of Christ, the true vine.

One spiritual writer, possible St Augustine of Hippo, posited that, while both of the Apostles would have belonged to both Churches simultaneously, here on earth, Peter, the "rock", who was eventually martyred, could be seen as symbolising the institutional Church, comprising human "devils" as well as human "angels", and John who was not martyred, the eternal church of the blessed.

Maybe, we can also see a hint of that as they approached the empty tomb, with hot-head Peter rushing in, and John the Divine approaching more hesitantly, more fearfully, in the religious sense.

[patrice]

37. And, said tomb, being empty, indeterminent, i.e. no quid pro quo. Truth/Right for the sake of

Truth/Right alone, not for anykind of payoff, which is the model lived by Jesus.

[L0oniX]

27. ...and John the Baptist came out from the wilderness not having attended any church.

In Fact the leaders of the local synagogue tried to get him to do the baptizing in their nice clean building. They thought the Jordan was too dirty and he wasn't exactly clean looking with the locusts, honey and camel skin wrap. The synagogue became obsolete when Peter formed the new Jewish convert church which was run out of John Marks home. Later on Paul condemned those that came from the Jewish church for trying to bring back and into the gentile churches all their old laws and customs. They only needed a church back then because people could not read and needed to hear from those who could and understood the new covenant. Who needs a corrupt church and clergy to tell others what the true understanding is and much less one that molests young children. Glad to see them gone and wish they would all go.

[Joe Chi Minh]

30. Hermits have always been dispensed from ecclesial observance.

[ClarkUSA]

3. That's alot of nice historic property waiting to be sold & refurbished into residences/businesses.

[LuvNewcastle]

4. I was thinking the same thing.

One of those old churches would make a cool nightclub.

[ClarkUSA]

7. Yup.

[condoleeza]

11. The McMenamin Brothers in Portland, OR have done this already

I hope we have lots more Catholic Churches available to them here soon. Nothing would make me happier than to see the Vatican file bankruptcy. The rapist in Brazil didn't get excommunicated, WTF!!!

[rurallib]

12. would you get to keep the tax exemption?

[Buns_of_Fire]

34. For less than $300,000, you can pick up one next door to where I live!

It's for sale. Plenty of parking, large kitchen, right on the U.S. Highway, running water, and even indoor toilets! A guy I know wanted to buy it and turn it into a combination Tittybar and Bait Shop. I suggested the name "Alice's Restaurant," but he said that he thinks that's already been taken. But we agreed that it'll need neon. Lots of neon.

(On edit: It's not a Catholic church. But if it's good enough for Alice, it's good enough for me.)

[B3Nut]

66. If any closed church is gothic-ish with a real pipe organ

make it a cultural center for the arts, including classical and jazz music education for at-risk youth. Recycle the pews and make the nave space multi-purpose for concerts, art exhibits, and so forth. Install an espresso bar in the narthex or wherever, and voila!

Todd in Cheesecurdistan

[patrice]

5. Co-operative housing+businesses, i HOPE!

P.S. Is that you Forkboy?

[ClarkUSA]

9. Definitely... also, gentrifying urban planning warriors could settle in and transform neighborhoods.

No, I'm not Forkboy. But we both like fire-breathing dragons. ;)

[patrice]

19. Well, I guess the Gentry gotta live somewhere, as long as their claim is only proportional to their

representation in Cleveland's population, I guess it would be better than them living in Monster McMansions with huge carbon footprints. Development of any and all of this property should be limited to alternative and green energy and resources.

[ClarkUSA]

26. Suburban flight is a big part of what has been killing Cleveland's tax base, turning it into...

America's biggest poorest city. In order for Cleveland to revive itself as a thriving city, they'll have to reverse middle-class
flight to the suburbs, among other things. Read this about one of the neighborhoods where the Cleveland Diocese plans
to close a church and you'll get a good idea of what I mean: http://www.cleveland.com/poverty/plaindealer/index.ssf?/poverty/more/20.html

[noamnety]

6. Wouldn't it be something

if the church coughed up the finances to turn them into homeless shelters/communities?

[patrice]

10. Free 8a-8p Xs 7 Schools, Community Centers, Elder Care, Craft/Trade Guilds . . . !!

[ClarkUSA]

13. Yes, it would.

But as past is prologue, I doubt it will happen.

[L0oniX]

28. If they were really about doing as Jesus did they'd sell off most of it and use the money...

to actually help others. Nothing like a church of Jesus that doesn't do as He did. Fakes!

[Ilsa]

35. Homeless shelters with preschools might work for some of them.

Or just preschools and early elementary programs. It would be awesome.

[ClarkUSA]

38. Definitely. Cleveland Diocese will probably ask for prior knowledge of usage before selling.

Whoever has the money and the vision will get the opportunity to purchase the property.

[Motown_Johnny]

58. Good Luck, I know a few beautiful churches that have closed in Detroit. They are not selling

and I don't think Cleveland's prospects are much better than Detroit's (although I assume they are somewhat better)

Just trying to heat those buildings would cost a fortune. Cathedral ceilings and single pane stained glass are nice, but not very efficient.

[BlooInBloo]

8. 52 down, brazillions to go.

[Arugula Latte]

14. Yeah, no kidding.

I'd be even happier if those monstrous rightwing foursquare churches started biting the dust.

[patrice]

15. Does that go for ALL churches, or just Catholics? nt

[BlooInBloo]

17. All of course. Duh.

[rvablue]

45. Hmmm, there are some pretty evil people throughout history who've called for the same thing.

[BlooInBloo]

49. Teh stupid - still burning strong....

There are some pretty evil people throughout history who have called for ANYTHING you care to name, dumbass.

And some pretty good ones.

And some neutral ones.

Sheesh.

[madrchsod]

16. is there anyone left in cleveland?

contrary to popular opinion churches were the heart of many communities with in the cities.

i think cleveland wants to relocate people to more populated areas and basically turn whole areas of cleveland into green zones.by moving people they can save money by providing services to viable neighborhoods.

[samplegirl]

18. Your probably right

[L. Coyote]

40. There are still lots of votes to steal!

[aquart]

20. And next time keep your hands off little children!

[L. Coyote]

41. And start wearing pants, FC!

[Politicalboi]

21. The only bad thing with this

Is we knew were the pedophiles were. Now they may be scattered in the neighborhoods.

[L0oniX]

23. Good by and good riddance.

[liberalhistorian]

59. Well, my, my, how very progressive and

compassionate. Many of these churches are over a century old and generations of families have worshipped in them. This is devastating to thousands of people and you're celebrating? That's pretty sick, not to mention ignorant and mean-spirited.

[L0oniX]

61. Ah ...were down to school boy name calling ...how immature.

There is an ignore function you are free to use.

[liberalhistorian]

62. How about YOU addressing the actual issues

instead of hiding behind "name-calling" and "ignore" nonsense. You said nothing whatsoever about the issues I've addressed. THAT is what's immature.

[L0oniX]

63. So your the only one entitled to their own opinion ...I happen to loath the Catholic church...

and I have my reasons. It's too bad people are still suckered into fake money loving churches and they should know better than to trust others for the proper understanding of scripture. I only hope that these indoctrinated (brain washed)Catholic families wake up to the fact that all churches claim to have the true understanding and therefore non really do. They are better off finding other ways to carry out their belief and faith than to participate in just another fake church.

So I am immature for not addressing your issues huh ...excuse me ...who made you god?

[liberalhistorian]

64. What I meant was that you simply complained about

"name calling" instead of addressing the points of my post. THAT is immature.

And you may loathe the Catholic Church, which is your right and, frankly, I have a lot of issues with it myself (the main issue being I will not be a part of a church that considers me a second-class citizen good for only cooking, cleaning, homemaking and child-bearing simply due to my gender). You have the right to make that determination for yourself and to decide what, if any at all, church you will be a part of. What you do NOT have the right to do is to make that determination for everyone else based on what YOU believe and to rejoice when thousands of people are devastated over the closings of their lifelong church; churches, that, in many cases, have been a part of their families for generations.

[L0oniX]

67. Well I do "rejoice" that they will have to go some place else if they want more of the same crap...

and while they are considering that they may try reading the bible for themselves for a change. "thousands of people are devastated" oh please ...it's not like they are out of a job and on the street. Spare me. If they were ever really going to devastated it would have been when all these pedophiles were found out. They should have left then.

[liberalhistorian]

69. Emotional devastation is as bad as any other

kind. I'm from that area, I know what they're dealing with. For you to decide what people should and shouldn't be devastated by, and where they should and shouldn't go to church and for you to simply dismiss their feelings because you don't happen to agree with their church is just as bad as when conservatives do the same thing to us. It's smug, elitist and wrong.

[L0oniX]

70. Your attempt to silence me is smug, elitist and really none of your business.

Oh and did I say ...I don't really give a damn what you think about me or my opinions.

[liberalhistorian]

71. LOL. I'm not attempting to "silence" anyone, but rather

engage in a dialogue. But you only want to hear what you want to hear. Did I not say you were perfectly free to believe whatever you want, just not to demand that everyone else follow suit? How is that "silencing?" You believe what you wanna believe, that's fine, but you don't have the right to demand that everyone else believe the same way or to casually and cruelly dismiss the very real feelings of thousands of people whose only crime is that they don't fit the "mold" of what you think they should fit. That's elitist, I don't care what you say.

And I really don't care what you think, either.

[L0oniX]

73. O yea ...I command you to believe as I do or I will turn you over to Ceiling Cat for punishment.

[liberalhistorian]

75. Celing Cat?

LOL :rofl: :rofl:

[Jennicut]

25. Most Catholics are not right wingers but were raised with the religion

Many do not agree with the Pope on issues of abortion, childbirth, etc. I mean, look at Kerry, Pelosi and Biden. Its definitely the Catholic Church refusing to change with the times that is the biggest problem here. I am a Lutheran and am totally not for bashing anyone over religion but Catholicism is a mess. Not allowing the priests to marry was obviously a huge mistake as well.

[upi402]

31. But the pointy hatted pervert protecter supported Bush all the way

because he was anti choice

[pnwmom]

43. And the majority of Catholics supported Obama, including many Catholics

in the parishes that just closed down.

[upi402]

29. a good start n/t

[SoCalDem]

39. I'M surprised that there WERE/ARE 52 Catholic churches IN Cleveland

That's a LOT...so I guess I'm not surprised they are closing some..

[pnwmom]

42. Progressive Catholics provided Obama's winning margin. But, hey,

let's keep alienating all the Catholic DUers with our anti-Catholic bigotry.

We'll get even more Catholic votes next time.

:sarcasm:

[Name removed]

44. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[get the red out]

48. Progressive Catholics are good people

But why do they stick with a Church that is against every decent thing they believe in?

A Church that was upset because the doctor and mother of a 9 year old girl didn't give her a death sentence by forcing her to bear twins conceived by rape? A Church that is against the distribution of condoms to prevent the spread of AIDS? Surely progressive Catholics, who would NEVER condone the past and continuing crimes of their Church, can see why other progressive folks have a distaste for its policies and are glad when it has set-backs?

I don't understand how good people can stick with an organization led by such clearly bad people. An organization that they have absolutely no hope of ever improving. I hope people not understanding that doesn't somehow "drive Catholics away" because there is no way for many of us to understand.

[pnwmom]

51. Perhaps because they take the long view -- Pope Ratzinger's days are numbered.

And they still have hope that they can change the Church from within -- while they can have no effect on the outside.

You have given up on the Church as a force for good, but most Catholics, progressive or otherwise, have not.

(Many of us also remember that the Pope spoke out strongly against our going to war in Iraq. Too bad Bush didn't listen.)

[treestar]

54. Who says there is no hope of improving it?

The younger generations are likely to do so. Now it is still in the charge of the older. It has improved before and can again.

It'd be like leaving the US because of the Bush administration. One does not have to give up hope on anything.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

57. Because, perhaps, the church ISN'T against "every decent thing [I] believe in?

I certainly have a few issues with the Church on a handful of matters, but all in all I like what they stand for and I really don't feel like I have to leave, thank you very much.

[hedgehog]

72. Read over the article here on the Underground Church to get some

idea of what's going on:

http://www.progressivecatholicvoice.org/enewsletters/index_Feb08.html#Underground

[treestar]

46. The celibacy rule

In this century, they area just not going to get enough new priests. There are churches with no pastors. Bound to happen.

[pnwmom]

47. I think that is at the root of the problem with recruiting. There are plenty

of pastors in the mainstream Protestant churches.

[get the red out]

50. I am glad they don't get Priests

I hate thinking someone would give up their natural desires like that. I think anyone who would give up sex to be a Priest needs psychological care.

If they gave up the Celibacy thing it would go a long way toward the Catholic Church not looking like such useless fools. Their whole fear and loathing of sex is disgusting. They only guys they can attract to be Priests are ones with an agenda that sex with other consenting adults has nothing to do with.

[SidDithers]

52. Good...nt

Sid

[Lost in CT]

53. Good a lot of them had soup kitchens that attracted a "Homeless" element into

the neighborhoods... they also had outreach housing that helped single mothers get homes thereby undermining the landlord renter relationship.

They also stole all the smart kids from the public schools with things like math and latin... now the little rotters and their fancy pants learning can go back to the public school system where their type belong.

And worst of all many of them protested the Iraq war and the death penalty... they are obviously not real Americans...

I say good riddance to bad rubbish....


:sarcasm:

[Initech]

55. Holy shit!!!! (pun intended)

You know things are fucked up when even God cant stay in business! :wow:

[TexasObserver]

56. Thank you, Jesus!

[Doremus]

60. The poor people in the inner-city can take a cab to their church.

:eyes:

Up yours, Diocese.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

65. And sadly, douchebaggery is alive and well at DU....

....as evidenced by some of the replies to this story.

[anigbrowl]

68. It's an ill wind that blows no good

I can't say I feel bad about this as I think the Catholic Church promotes submission to authority as a key part of its membership strategy, and has long regarded poverty and inequality as part of the divine plan.

[knitter4democracy]

74. They've already done this before. What about the schools?

The churches are closing, but what about the primaries and high schools? The schools I taught in there were wonderful, and I hope they're not under the knife.