the story nobody is talking about......not a mention on the morning shows

[spanone]

Red Cross Described 'Torture' at CIA Jails


The International Committee of the Red Cross concluded in a secret report that the Bush administration's treatment of al-Qaeda captives "constituted torture," a finding that strongly implied that CIA interrogation methods violated international law, according to newly published excerpts from the long-concealed 2007 document.

The report, an account alleging physical and psychological brutality inside CIA "black site" prisons, also states that some U.S. practices amounted to "cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment." Such maltreatment of detainees is expressly prohibited by the Geneva Conventions.

The findings were based on an investigation by ICRC officials, who were granted exclusive access to the CIA's "high-value" detainees after they were transferred in 2006 to the U.S. detention camp at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. The 14 detainees, who had been kept in isolation in CIA prisons overseas, gave remarkably uniform accounts of abuse that included beatings, sleep deprivation, extreme temperatures and, in some cases, waterboarding, or simulating drowning.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/15/AR2009031502724_pf.html

[chimpymustgo]

1. K & R and hit the link. Today Show too busy blarneying it up in Ireland.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

23. You expect serious journalism from the Today Show?

The show that first gained popularity by featuring a chimpanzee in the 1950s? It's never been anything but lightweight.

[dflprincess]

26. J. Fred Muggs

I loved J. Fred - I even had a storybook about him. Of course, I was only 4 when he left the Today Show.

Some fun from Wikipedia about him:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Fred_Muggs

In the 1950s, the Russian newspaper, Izvestia, described J. Fred Muggs, as "a symbol of the American way of life", and said, "Muggs is necessary in order that the average American should not look into reports on rising taxes, and decreasing pay, but rather laugh at the funny mug of a chimpanzee."

Biography
Mr. Muggs was originally bought from Henry Trefflich, an animal dealer based in New York. As of January 23, 2004, the fifty-two-year-old Muggs and his "live-in girlfriend" Phoebe B. Beebe (who also made appearance on the Garroway show) are still alive in Citrus Park, Florida, in the care of Gerald Preis. In 2004, Joe Hagan of the New York Observer reached Gerald Preis, 60, at his home where Preis said that Muggs "has a little gray, mostly in his beard."

Many sources refer to Garroway as jealous of Muggs. Hagan notes, without attribution, that "Legend has it that ... Mr. Garroway grew jealous and began spiking Muggs' orange juice with Benzedrine to make him misbehave and deliver his human co-host back to center stage." Many sources suggest that Muggs did not have a good disposition. He has been described as "a nasty little monkey" and as "throwing legendary tantrums." At the press conference announcing his addition to the show, Muggs yanked Garroway's glasses off. Many sites refer to Muggs as having bitten comedienne Martha Raye on the arm. Preis, however, told Hagan that this story, which Hagan referred to as a 50-year-old tabloid rumor, "was bullshit—just plain bullshit."

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

46. I loved J. Fred too! It's amazing that he's till alive! Totally cool!

[dflprincess]

49. I mentioned J. Fred to a friend who swore that Cheetah from the Tarzan movies is also alive

naturally, I had to check it out. This is from April 11, 2007 - I couldn't find anything more recent:

http://www.monstersandcritics.com/movies/news/article_1289819.php/Tarzans_Cheetah_celebrates_75th_birthday_with_cake_soda

Tarzan's Cheetah celebrates 75th birthday with cake, soda


Los Angeles - Cheetah, the chimpanzee who starred in the Tarzan movies in the 1930s and who is considered the world's oldest chimp, has celebrated his 75th birthday.

Cheetah, whose coat is now peppered with grey hair, marked the occasion with a party featuring sugar-free cake and diet soda in the California desert town of Palm Springs, famous as a retirement community for old movie stars. He has lived there with his trainer for the last 16 years.

Chimpanzees rarely live past their 40s in the wild but often live into their 60s in captivity. According to his trainer, Dan Westfall, Cheetah's only health problem is that he has been diabetic for about seven years.

Cheetah was brought from Liberia in 1932 as a baby and made his movie debut in 1934. He starred in about a dozen Tarzan films and retired from his film career after appearing in the 1967 picture Dr Doolittle.

[NBachers]

57. You can find a Cheetah debunking story here

from the *ahem* Washington Post. It looks like the reporter, R.D. Rosen, did his share of due diligence. I have a friend who became charmed by the Cheetah legend. He just sent me this story a couple of days ago.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/25/AR2008112500939.html?hpid=features1&hpv=national

[burythehatchet]

2. Because any discussion leads to prosecution of Bush and Cheney, and complicity by Dems

So when both Dems and Repukes are implicated, you will NEVER hear about it.

[spanone]

4. perhaps the world courts will weigh in....perhaps they will just get away with it..

[burythehatchet]

9. That is the only hope, and UN officials have said as much.

Here's to hoping the Ceaucesceau (sp?) option comes into play.

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

22. Exactly. Kinda like having the Mafia investigate organized crime.

[ProgressIn2008]

50. You are correct, friend. Why would Dems prosecute? They know they'll hang too. nt

[TechBear_Seattle]

3. Of course no one is talking about it: everyone is complicit

The Bush Administration, the media, Congress -- including most of the Democrats, who adamantly refused to investigate allegations made years ago.

Sweep it under the rug and everyone gets to keep their jobs and their freedom. Who cares about justice? This is America!

[OwnedByFerrets]

5. We must not look back.

:sarcasm: :sarcasm: and :cry: :cry:

[chimpymustgo]

6. That sent a pain through my gut. They are ALL complicit.

[Senator]

18. Yes, "look away" equals responsibility.

not.

[OwnedByFerrets]

20. But in my mind, it DOES equal complicity.

[Senator]

63. Yes, as did impeachophobia

The DC-Dem "leadership" have been aiding and abetting torture for years.

--

[progressoid]

8. It's the dirty little secret that everyone knows.

And, I dare say, a majority of Americans are probably OK with. They still think that it's going to keep us safe.

[spanone]

10. the really sad thing is that it is no longer a secret and still nobody cares

[madokie]

11. Its coming

These kind of things just take time. It always seems early on that the inevitable will never happen but there always seems to be a point where shit'll start happening. Once the shit starts hittin the fan then all hell will break loose. It'll be like shooting fish in a barrel when it does too. If darths showing up yesterday isn't a hint of worry then I don't know what is. Hang in there, justice is coming. I'd much rather the justice department take their own sweet time because that works on two fronts, one is the time to do it right and the other is the time to let those guilty feel the pain of uncertainty who btw are the only ones who feel this uncertainty. I know I live in a county where this is all going to be addressed sooner or later. This is a very unique situation the bushco boys have created and it has no precedence to guide the procedings so again I say hang in there, justice is coming.

[spanone]

13. i'm with you madokie....as they layers of crime pile up they will collapse under their own weight

[Sal Minella]

14. Headline story on NPR, "Red Cross says U.S torture violated international law." nt

And the beast has emerged, frothing and roaring and threatening:

===========================================
“He (Obama) is making some choices that, in my mind, will, in fact, raise the risk to the American people of another attack,” Mr. Cheney said of Mr. Obama in an interview on the CNN program “State of the Union.”
===========================================
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5262048

CheneyBushInc operatives are perfectly capable of causing another "incident" if pushed, is the message I am getting from Cheney's "concern."

Reminds me of the Zen master telling the pupil
I am holding this stick above your head.
If you try to grasp the stick, I will strike you.
If you do not grasp the stick, I will strike you.

The degenerate has built a house in McLean VA (according to a story on Fox which I didn't bookmark) and has "a transitional office" in a mall in McLean, where CIA headquarters is located.

"Transitional" to exactly WHAT, one must ask.
I hope people with some political heft do start asking. Pronto.

[spanone]

16. if anyone had claimed that about bu$h* after 9/11 they would have been declared an enemy combatant

[hootinholler]

19. I so need to develop your confidence!

I plumb low in the tank on that one.

-Hoot

[earcandle]

53. nice thoughts, release the pressure, relax, see what happens

never stop talking about it and continue to press forward

paradoxical lenses, the greatest hottest new synapse on
optic-brain function. 

got it yet? 

[guyton]

12. why is this just now coming out?

Since when does the Red Cross produce 'secret' documents?

What else have they uncovered that we don't know about yet?

[RaleighNCDUer]

15. I expect they have 'secret' documents because if they tip their hand

prematurely what they are learning, they lose access and then cannot find any MORE evidence.

I remember a few years ago there was talk of detainees who were being shuffled between prisons to keep them out of sight of the Red Cross - every time the IRC rep came in the front door, the ghost detainee was slipped out the back. Then, a couple years ago, there was no more talk about it. I never heard if it was because the government just said 'fuck it' and let the IRC see them, or if the detainees were released, still uninterviewed, or if they were disappeared. The entire subject was disappeared.

And that's ONE thing they may have uncovered that we don't know about yet.

[Senator]

17. What YOU can actually DO about torture today, and everyday

First, rec and kick this thread. Ask other DUers to do the same (like I'm doing here). Get it to the top of the Greatest page (the "headline" part of this site that insiders actually do take notice of).

Now, the (not so) hard part: Do it again tommorrow. And the next day, and...

Find another torture article or comment to kick and rec to the top. If need be, repost this one. Better yet, write your own (get "torture" in the title so the rest of us can find it to k&r).

As few as 100 DUers could make this happen everyday.

Beyond that, instead of just lamenting what "nobody is talking about" be sure that you don't talk about anything else. Work complicity/accountability regarding torture into all other subjects. This is easy as there is no higher priority. (No, we have no right to torture our way to economic recovery, a better healthcare plan, or least of all more political advantage over repubs.)

Post this article at other places. Do the same tommorrow.

Use the fact that the pavlovian euphemedia are currently programmed to be aware of (and fear) "what's happening in the blogosphere." If that means everyone's talking about torture -- and won't stop talking about it -- they know they must get on the bandwagon or get run over by it.

You see, DOING something about torture isn't that much work. It's just a matter of dealing with short attention spans by repeating, reminding, and insisting.

DUers really can clog up the memory hole.

---

[earcandle]

54. Brilliant!

[KoKo]

66. Excellent post....

and a K&R.

[Uncle Joe]

21. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, spanone.

[Echo In Light]

24. When are the CHILD SODOMY VIDEOS from Abu Ghraib gonna air on GMA?

That'll shake the flag-wavers up

[bertman]

25. Probably never, Echo In Light. Just like the 90+ CIA "interrogation" tapes

that vanished into thin air.

Kick. kick. kick.

[spanone]

27. there used to be laws that prohibited destruction of evidence....long, long ago in a galaxy far away

[SpiralHawk]

28. Republicon-owned corporate media hates the truth

and will not serve the people of the USA.

They are little more than a propaganda catapult at this point.

No wonder corporate media market share is plummeting.

No honor. No cred.

[sam sarrha]

38. a ReThuglican exposed to 'Truth' will Burst into Flames, like a Vampire in the Sunlight

:hide: :yoiks:

[rambler_american]

29. K&R

I want the bastards to pay.
:mad:

[DesertRat]

30. k&r

[WillyT]

31. Hey Spanone...

Full story here: http://www.nybooks.com/articles/22530

:hi:

:kick:

[spanone]

33. thank you..............reading

:toast:

[winyanstaz]

32. If they refuse to report crimes, doesn't that make them just a guilty?

Just saying, didn't we hang or jail a lot of people for helping the Nazis hid their crimes after the last world war? Isn't refusing to report crimes or to even investigate them make one an accessory?
It will be up to the bloggers,as usual,to bring this to America's attention.
We need a law NOW that allows a main stream media to lose its license permanently when found guilty of hiding crimes by not reporting them when they have been notified. oops...I think we already have laws that make it a crime to cover up torture and kidnapping..so perhaps we should be looking at our Justice department harder and kicking them out as well.

[earcandle]

55. Now you are cooking with gas..... except the supremes, huh?

[winyanstaz]

69. there is a way to deal with them as well...

and that is for Obama to appoint more..I heard that he can do so and the Democratic congress can back him up. But then there would not be an excuse for not being able to get a dang thing done.
I apologize for not replying sooner but it took a while for me to be able to get back to this thread.

[earcandle]

70. Thanks for the reply. I always check my journals for replys

just in case someone reads later. 

It is nice to be included. 

[pmorlan1]

34. Use their Twitter

I say we all TWITTER them every hour on the hour demanding that they cover the story! I already sent a twitter to MSNBC earlier today.

[spanone]

35. david shuster reported on it---msnbc

good for him

[pmorlan1]

36. Maybe Twitter Works

I twittered him too. I have no idea if my twitter had anything to do with it but I'm going to keep on twittering them.

[pmorlan1]

37. Network News

I'm watching the three network news shows to see if they cover the Red Cross report. Right now all three are covering AIG.

[SoCalDem]

39. Here's why.

Americans have been "groomed" for DECADES, to accept certain "bad behavior"..

Movies taught most of us..

Double standards are always "acceptable".

Most people go their whole lives without ever having personal contact with lawyers, courtrooms, prisons, prisoners, so they only "know", whet they SEE..on tv or in movies, or what they READ about it,.

We are told that the presumption of innocence "exists", but every "show" we watch, every movie we see, every book we read, HAS a "bad guy".. Often, we are SHOWN the bad guy, and even his crime, BEFORE the legality issues unfold.

Heinous crimes HAVE to net punishment..severe punishment.. that's the basis for our whole system, but the flip-side of this system, is that we also insist that it's better for a guilty person to go free, than to have an innocent person be convicted.

We are discombobulated..

Bad guys are trotted out in the media, and their sins listed, so we "know" they are guilty.. they simply MUST be FORCED to confess.. We "know" they are bad guys because of the way they are treated, and because our press tells us they are the bad guys, so anything that happens to them, is not much of a "worry" for most people.

When bad things done TO them, are exposed, most people cannot get all that worked up about it..

[pmorlan1]

40. And they call themselves News shows.

I couldn't even find a story on the NBC or CBS website. ABC had a story but none of them have covered the Red Cross report yet on the nightly news shows.

[pmorlan1]

44. Nightly News - Keeping Us Ignorant

It's official....no coverage of the Red Cross report on the three network nightly news shows. I also watched my local news and they had no mention of it either. Looks like most of America will not find out about what the Red Cross reported. This news blackout is infuriating! I just want to scream!

[caseymoz]

41. It only confirms what people already know.

The Hague prosecutors have already hinted that Bush would be next for an indictment. I would think Cheney, Rumsfeld, Ashcroft, Gonzales and Yee would also be (and if we're lucky, Alito).

Bush had better not leave the country, he might find himself under arrest. However, we should be arresting him here where he might face something like 300 years.

[Imagevision]

42. I kinda get a drift on why Obama doesn't want to contribute to opening the Bushco can of worms

[grantcart]

43. Having worked with the ICRC I can tell you two things

They are not sensational but very fact driven and that the report was leaked by someone in the US government. The ICRC never leaks as it would end their missions in the future.

The whole point is that government leaders can get confidential reports from the ICRC about what is really happening so that they can make corrective action and not have to relie on command structure for facts about what is really happening.

[EFerrari]

45. Precisely. Thanks for the reminder, grantcart. n/t

[G_j]

47. K

:bounce:

[Juche]

48. Bring on the international justice

If our judicial and political system is too cowardly then let the international community hold us accountable. I like the Obama admin on most issues, but I think they'll try to cover this up rather than investigate it.

Sad part is the US media will start claiming that US politicians are 'victims of angry, unfair foreign countries' when the indictments start coming down.

At least there is still the internet.

[ProgressIn2008]

51. Cover up = complicity. nt

[sansf]

52. another story buried

http://www.democracynow.org/2009/3/16/us_consul_general_says_awaiting_israeli

http://www.democracynow.org/2009/3/16/on_trip_to_gaza_parents_of

Tristan Alexander, Oakland activist and US citizen, shot in the face by Israeli soldier last Friday. He is in critical condition. Palestinian medics had to wait for Israeli ambulance to get him to hospiral because Palestinians, and those who protest for them, count for nothing.

Today's Democracy Now!, chilling.

[TrogL]

56. The ICRC is charged with enforcing the Geneva Convention on Warfare

We're talking war crimes here.

[KoKo]

67. and it's interesting Cheney get's a soft ball inteview with John King just after Sy Hersh's

revelations about Assassination Squads and now this. Cheney is running scared.

[libodem]

58. I so thought that things were going to change

I'm bitterly disappointed this is being ignored.

[pmorlan1]

59. WaPo Calls for Torture Investigation

Fred Hiatt's editorial page is calling for an investigation (not prosecution) into the torture accusations. Although the editorial is flawed at least it's a start.

The Truth About Torture

An independent panel must ferret out the facts.

Tuesday, March 17, 2009; Page A14

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/16/AR2009031602615.html

Anne Applebaum, columnist at WaPo is also calling for investigation but only of CIA prisons. In addition, she is calling for leaders to be held accountable. Another flawed piece but better than nothing.

Cleanup Task for a Shining City

By Anne Applebaum

Tuesday, March 17, 2009; Page A15

snip>

What we need now, therefore, is not an endless, politicized circus of a congressional investigation into every aspect of George W. Bush's White House but a carefully targeted legal investigation of the CIA's invisible prisons: who gave the orders to use torture, who carried out the orders, what exactly was done, who objected. The guilty, however senior, should be named, forced to testify and called to account -- because the rule of law, and nothing else, is what makes us exceptional.

[2feeedle2]

60. Remember the Geneva Conventions didn't apply!!!! Outrageous

[Ferretherder]

61. NOT winning hearts and minds,....

...one baseless war at a time.

(sigh)

[pleah]

62. K&R

[tekisui]

64. Error: You've already recommended that thread.

This and dickie's death squad.

[global_traveler]

65. Remember When It Was Just Impeachment?

...and now we have confirmed (by the Red Cross) that war crimes were committed. If a Nuremberg-style trial isn't held this decade for the accused (aka "bush CRIME family members"), it likely won't happen at all.


http://www.prosecutegeorgebush.com

[GOTV]

68. Why does the red cross produce "secret" reports?