Warning: dangers of leaving children alone with dangerous breed dogs

[tpsbmam]

I took the chance of posting this here because I've seen many posts here supporting pit bull bans. I've known some pretty aggressive pitties, and I've known some unbelievably sweet & gentle pits (one of them is one of the greatest dogs I've known). I can say the same of most breeds I've encountered & many mutts.

I got this in my email this morning, though, and it alarmed me so I thought I'd pass it along.....

Please read!!!

If you are an owner of a dog that belongs to a 'dangerous breed' category and you also have a small child please take this as a warning. Don't leave your dog with the child unattended under any circumstances.

Only a little moment was enough for the following to happen. See the photo attached .....










:evilgrin:

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

1. .

:spray:

Oh, that poor dog.

[roguevalley]

112. this picture is why dogs are awesome.

[dixiegrrrrl]

2. Good One.......

[xultar]

3. The real danger was leaving that kid with that blanket. YIKES!

[Lorax]

4. Awww

That is one sweet natured dog!

[PeaceNikki]

5. Here's a video - "PIT BULL VICIOUSLY ATTACKS BABY"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vL1trl1FMUw&feature=related

:)

[tpsbmam]

7. Cute attack! Great video -- passed that one along to a bunch of people. n/t

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

39. Technically, that's not a pit bull.

Just thought I'd like to point that out.

[PeaceNikki]

41. In the video I posted?

There are several pups - most are American Stafforshire Terriers. This is one of a handful of breeds called "pit bulls". And, the most common, I might add.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

44. No, in the OP.

I meant to reply to the OP, sorry.

[PeaceNikki]

48. Gotcha.

But the bull terrier is a "pit-type" that gets lumped in with the Stafforshires, Pit Bull Terriers, Bulldogs, etc.

From: http://pitbulladvocate101.com/PitbullType.php

Breed specific legislation (BSL) almost always restricts "Pit Bulls". We hear that term so often without really understanding what it means. "Pit Bull" is not actually a breed, but rather a label used to describe many breeds. Typically, these five breeds come to mind:

* American Bulldog
* American Pit Bull Terrier
* American Staffordshire Terrier
* Staffordshire Bull Terrier
* Bull Terrier
* Mini Bull Terrier

What about the Boxer, Bull Mastiff, Boston terrier or French Bulldog? Do these breeds enter your thoughts when you hear the words “Pit Bull”? Probably not, but for many legislators across the U.S. they do. “Pit Bull-type” is a term often included in BSL leaving many people confused. If a “Pit Bull” is any one of six breeds, than how many breeds are considered to be “Pit Bull-types”? The law may describe characteristics of "Pit Bull-type" dogs as having a "wide head, broad chest, and short fur” (that narrows it down). To further aggravate breed identification issues, most dangerous breed legislation adds "and mixes" to the wording which can get pretty messy. To my knowledge there are at least 25 different bulldog breeds which all fall into the “Pit Bull-Type” category according to its description. Other breeds at risk for BSL may include working-dogs such as the German Shepherd and Labrador Retriever, along with the Saint Bernard, Husky, Chow-Chow, and surprisingly, even the Golden Retriever is banned in some American cities. Let’s not forget that all mixes of these breeds may be banned as well.

[Kajsa]

150. Great video!

Thanks for sharing this!

Have you seen the commercial for Nutrish dog food?

It has Rachael Ray and her pitbull, Isaboo featured.
Isaboo is one, big playful pup!
:-)

http://www.rachaelray.com/pets/nutrish.php


Dispelling the myths of pitbulls, one step at a time.

[LosinIt]

6. My daughter always has a smiley face drawn on one of our Boston Terriers

And she is 23, the daughter, not the Boston.

[Lil Missy]

8. LOL! That's really sweet.

The poor pup! All the othe dogs might laugh at him!

[Marrah_G]

9. HAhahahahaha- awesome picture.

[smokey nj]

10. Hey, that kid vandalized Spuds McKenzie!

:rofl:

[carlyhippy]

145. hahah!

Carly

[EmilyAnne]

11. Around the corner from me a pit bit a chunk out of a 6 year old boy's face. He has major tissue

damage and will be scarred for life. Friends, neighbors and family say the dog was perfectly lovely up until that point. Then he snapped.
Why do you think there seem to be so many stories like this?

I am not trying to flame or argue with you.
You know more about this than I do as far as real statistics vs. public perception.

My eleven pound Lucy happily plays with pits at the off leash park along with all sorts of other breeds. Its a daily occurrence, the lucky thing!
A lot of the pits seem to make a particular sound when they play that freaks out other dogs. Is that something known about pits in general or do you think its a weird thing about the ones I see on a regular basis? Just wondering because any time I have seen a fight involving a pit, it happens while they are playing. The pit starts making a certain growl or grunt and only then does it escalate.
Everything up to that point seems to be playful, meaning the pit doesn't have hackles up, isn't baring its teeth, demonstrates play gestures (down ward facing dog lol).
I should add that I have never seen anything get out of hand or violent. The owners are always able to stop it and separate.

Thanks for any insight and that picture is adorable!

[PeaceNikki]

12. I have a friend who was mauled by a Black Lab.

He had to have dozens of surgeries and is also scarred for life. It was his own dog and was perfecting loving and wonderful up until the attack and he just snapped. They think it was due to inbreeding in an attempt to keep bloodlines pristine.

It wasn't on the news and it wasn't in the paper. It's only an interesting story when it's about pits or Rotts or some other controversial breed.

Nope, this was a big, cute, loving, gorgeous, purebred Black Lab so the media wasn't interested.

[tpsbmam]

16. The woman who had to have a "face transplant" was also mauled

by her dog.....a black lab.

[EmilyAnne]

20. Oh! That's right. I forgot about that.

[tangent90]

33. A black lab ate a baby near my mom's house

(not the whole baby, but quite a bit of it) Warning: graphic story
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20081106_14_A1_hRecor60159&archive=yes

[Politicalboi]

81. Man those people didn't desreve

To have a baby or a dog. How does anyone leave a baby in a swing and leave the house? And the mother and the grandma should have heard the screams.

[tangent90]

104. Exactly. I wasn't trying to condemn the dog, I have a black lab too and he's a sweetie

but any dog especially when it hasn't been fed can be tempted by young, tender flesh. It's a heartbreaking story in any case.

[DBoon]

86. ALL dogs are basically wolves

they have been bred to be submissive to humans, but you have what is only a few generations removed from a powerful predator. The powerful predator will come out, regardless of the breed

They are not small people in fur suits. They are animals and do not always operate by human rules

[comrade snarky]

138. While I agree with you that dogs do not work by human rules

A dog is emphatically not a wolf.

As a child my family adopted a stray that we later realized was probably half wolf. The psychology of a wolf or wolf breed dog is a world away from that of the average domesticated pup. Dogs have been with us for (if I remember correctly) about 15,000 years. That's more than a few generations.

[canetoad]

122. I have my own thoughts about what may have happened

to Isabel Dinoire. Just say the dog became distressed when she would not wake up and maybe pawed and licked her face. I have seen dogs resort to a nervous 'nibbling' such as they do with fleas.

Of course, none of us know for sure what happened but I believe there is a more than even chance that the dog became agitated and tried to wake her up with tragic consequences.

[EmilyAnne]

19. How sad! My dog is the poster child for bad breeding. She was rescued out of a puppy mill.

She was already a year when we got her. She was a mess of social and physical problems.
After two years of nothing but sweetness and light, training, plenty of exercise and socialization, not a single BAD thing has happened to this dog. And she is still TERRIFIED of people. No matter how many positive interactions involving delicious treats, no matter how expertly they modify their body language to approach her...nope...is doesn't matter.
Somehow, her bad breeding along with her early experiences are etched on her stony, walnut sized brain.
Finally, and this is embarrassing to admit, her vet convinced us to start her on "puppy prozac."

Luckily, she is only eleven pounds and extremely obedient to me. So, easy to round up before problems start.
Of course, I know she could very easily "turn" out of fear if cornered and then bite someone. For this reason, I always monitor her interactions with people, especially children.
I really think you are on to something about the inbreeding causing problems.
I wonder how many of the pit attacks that the media likes to report involved dogs such as your friend's lab. Bred dangerously without consideration of temperment followed by early separation from their mothers and poor socialization.

[tpsbmam]

24. I have a little WONDERFUL 13-pound rescue who has the same issues....

An animal behaviorist gave me some great training tips for him as he has fear aggression. He's MUCH better and is the most amazingly loving, wonderful dog once he gets to know people (which now happens within about 1/2 hour as opposed to taking days when I first got him) but there are still times that stress him out and I'm fully aware that his aggression may show itself. I'm aware of his issues, though, and am very careful not to put him in situations where he might bite someone -- I'm not only protecting people, I'm protecting him. He's gotten very possessive of my other dog (a female Westie) and I know I can't have him around other dogs.....he gets aggressive, no matter what the dog's size. So sadly for him, when there's another dog around I let the Westie play with the dog and my mixed-breed is kept away from the fun. It's all just being a responsible dog owner.

Pure and simple, he's a WONDERFUL dog who lives to please (as opposed to my Westie, who lives to BE pleased :P) and had an unfortunate start to life (clearly abused & neglected). Many dogs have the same issues -- it's the owners who are at fault, not the dogs.

[TBF]

25. Excellent point. We tried to adopt a great dane puppy a couple of months

ago and wound up finding her a new home. It broke my heart because I'm such an animal lover, but my 23 month old and the puppy just fed off each other and I was afraid that it would be the minute I turned around, and one of them accidentally poked the other in the eye or whatever... I just wasn't willing to take that risk and will wait until the kids are a little older to try again. The breed really has little to do with it in my mind. Any dog can bite when provoked, no matter how gentle they normally are.

[pipoman]

144. The size of the mouth however

may have something to do with it. If the mouth, for instance, is large enough to, say, engulf the whole child, it may not be the best choice for small children.

I once watched my neighbor's mastiffs got into a fight in their backyard with the neighbors 2 year old standing 3 feet away in his diaper watching as the 2 - 200 lb dogs fought to the death of one of them. It all happened in a matter of less than a minute.

I have never understood the need by some to go buy the largest dog in the dog world as a companion to a baby. For protection? Why not just get the kid a gun? :sarcasm:

[TBF]

146. Well I have to admit that went through my head... a more experienced

puppy owner might have been fine, but I just couldn't do it. Our beautiful puppy now lives with a couple that has other dogs and no kids, including two other great danes. They are majestic animals, and I'd love to own one again. But now is not the right time.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

114. I still have the scar where the golden retriever bit me.

The moral of this story: don't poke grumpy old golden retrievers while they're trying to sleep.

[tpsbmam]

14. You're always going to find anecdotal stories that go to prove your point....

here are a couple of anecdotal stories of my own. The ONLY time my small dog was attacked was by not one but two GOLDEN RETRIEVERS. He was doing nothing -- we were just walking along together on the beach -- they dashed at him and grabbed him. Fortunately the owner was there and pulled them off quickly and my dog didn't sustain any lasting damage, but it scared the hell out of me! They meant business -- he could have been killed.

The only times I've been bitten by a dog was (1) by a GERMAN SHEPHERD.....he was a good dog and I think just got carried away (we'd been playing, I was racing around with him.....I totally don't blame the dog, who never did it before or since as far as I know, though the owners were friends and could have been lying to protect the dog. I was around the dog many more times and he was always sweet, loving & playful after that.....I was definitely more cautious around him after that. And many years ago, dobermans & German shepherds had creepy reputations -- I stupidly believed this about dobermans & kept my little dog away from them no matter what the owners said. Well, my dog had different ideas.....one of his favorite girl friends (we saw her in Central Park & on our block all the time) was, you guessed it, a doberman. My dog taught me how stupid I'd been to lump all dogs into one category and believe the hype. (This was back in the 1970's and, at least where I lived, dobermans did have a spotty reputation.) (2) The second dog to bite me was a nasty little miniature poodle. He was badly raised and poor little thing paid the price with his behavior. Not his fault.

[EmilyAnne]

21. I remember being afraid of Dobermans when I was growing up. Was that something focused on in the

media during the 80s?
Or was there a big trend of poorly breeding these dogs?
The only time I was bitten was by a chihuahua that jumped up my skirt and bit my upper thigh. It wasn't reported, for sure!

[guitar man]

27. The problem with some of these "stories"

is that they are exactly that, stories. "Oh, the dog was fine until it just snapped one day". While I'm sure that has been the case in some of them, I'd be willing to bet that in many cases the owners either knew the dog was getting rank and ignored it or just failed to recognize the signs.

I personally know of a few incidents where the dogs were showing signs that they were going to get out of hand and the owners didn't do anything about it. I even pointed it out to a friend of mine with his Doberman and he ignored it until the dog took a chunk out of his leg. That got his attention.

The key to living with any dog is to pay attention to what they are trying to tell you through their behavior. Often times there is something wrong that can be corrected if the owner will just take action early enough.

[guitar man]

13. Cute!!

Just one little nitpick though, that's not an APBT, that's a Bull Terrier :P

But I do agree, incidents can happen if you let your kids play with these "dangerous" dog breeds, like this incident that happened at our house.




:rofl:

[Lorax]

111. Hysterical

That dog just looks humiliated! He looks like he is saying, "How could you let this happen?"

[guitar man]

113. lol

She does look that way in the pic ;)

That dog loves that child more than anything. If you ever want to see a "pit" get mean, all you have to do is let her think you're going to harm that little girl. ;)

[skooooo]

15. Oh the HUMANITY!

LOL

[PeaceNikki]

17. Here's the carnage that occurs when pit bulls live with cats

http://s151.photobucket.com/albums/s129/PeaceNikki72/?action=view¤t=10100811292.flv

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

149. Do you have one of Cocoa getting her ass kicked, like you said the cat does?

Argh, forgot your cat's name.

[Hepburn]

18. I got this same thing in my email and I LMBO!

Glad you posted it as a thread! :hi: K&R

[TahitiNut]

22. The little beast is merely marking his territory.

:hide:

[Hepburn]

23. LOL....funny remark! n/t

[lukasahero]

26. Bravo!

So nice to get a chuckle here - it's been a long time. :)

(That's one patient pup!)

[KurtNYC]

28. okay so there is a breed of dog which was specifically bred for aggression

and fighting. A breed that even PETA refuses to defend. Cesar Milan says that many people are not qualified to own, etc. etc. but what good are experts and statistic in the face of one cute photo?

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

29. Actually Peta is against them because of the likelihood that they will be abused

Cesar doesn't reccomend lots of different breeds to people.

And, pit bulls have not been bred for human aggression. Some have been bred for dog aggression. There's a difference.

Oh, and those statistics, if they're the ones anti-pit people always spout, they're flawed.

[guitar man]

30. exactly

Staffordshire terriers, bulldogs, bull terriers and other Molosser breeds were originally bred for the sport of bull baiting. And "pitbull" or "pit bull" is NOT a breed of dog, it is a loose description, a bit of slang cooked up by the media in their search for a monster. Any so-called "expert" that starts slinging "facts" and using the term "pitbull" in relation automatically loses credibility with me.

[astonamous]

135. Pit Bull is a ghetto, racist name. n/t

[Number23]

141. I just have to ask. Umm...how exactly is calling a dog a "pit bull" racist???

[MadHound]

32. Interesting fact, up until just a few years ago, the AKC recommended pits and other bully dogs

As the best family dog going. Why? Because they had been specifically bred to be non-aggressive to humans, and that their high pain tolerance lends itself to children roughhousing.

But I suppose that the AKC doesn't know what they're talking about eh? Along with the millions of owners of pit bulls whose dogs are loving, kind and gentle towards all.

Meanwhile idiots continued to get sucked in by the media hype.

[PeaceNikki]

36. Thank you!

They are excellent family dogs. I've had them with kids and kittens.

[MadHound]

72. I've had either a pit or pit mix for the past thirty years now,

And I've always thought that they were great dogs. Give me a pit any day, especially over many of the small, hyper yappy dogs out there.

[WillieW]

60. People like Michael Vick took advantage of Pits by training them to be vicious

The pit bull is a gentle and loving breed and obviously wants to please his owner. Michael Vick took advantage of that trait. Most pits are people shy. Called baby sitter is some circles. Fortunately, most of the Vick dogs have been rehabilitated in "Dog Town" and are now in loving homes.

My little 14 lb.dog intimated a pit bull just the other day. It was funny to see a large bad-rap dog cowering in front of my little dog.


Chances are that if you are killed by an animal, you where doing something to it you should not have.

Example: The Crocodile Hunter

[KurtNYC]

119. Vick's dogs were selectively bred for fighting

most of them were deemed "unadoptable"

Chances are that if you are killed by an animal, you where doing something to it you should not have.

Yes, like owning it for instance.

[PeaceNikki]

121. That's not true.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/magazine/12/22/vick.dogs/index.html

On Sept. 4, 5 and 6, under tight security and a court-imposed gag order, Zawistowski's team assembled in Virginia. It quickly agreed on a protocol for testing the dogs that would show their level of socialization and aggressiveness. Among other things, the dogs were presented with people, toys, food and other dogs. Their reactions and their overall demeanor were evaluated. In those three days the team assessed 49 dogs at six sites.

It didn't help that the assessors had no idea what to expect. Besides their time at Bad Newz, the dogs had spent four months locked up in shelters with minimal attention. That alone could push many dogs over the brink. "I thought, If we can save three or four, it will be fantastic," Reynolds says.
Adds Racer, "We had been told these were the most vicious dogs in America."

So what they found in the pens caught them off guard. "Some of them were just big goofy dogs you'd find in any shelter," says Zawistowski. No more than a dozen were seasoned fighters, and few showed a desire to harm anything.

"We were surprised at how little aggression there was," says Reynolds. Many of the dogs had all but shut down. They cowered in the corners of their kennels or stood hunched with their heads lowered, their tails between their legs and their feet shifting nervously. Some didn't want to come out. As far as they knew bad things happened when people came. Bad things happened when they were led out of their cages.

....

After the ASPCA-led evaluations, the dogs were put into one of four categories: euthanize; sanctuary 2 (needs lifetime care given by trained professionals, with little chance for adoption); sanctuary 1 (needs a controlled environment, with a greater possibility of adoption); and foster (must live with experienced dog owners for a minimum of six months, and after further evaluation adoption is likely). Rebecca Huss, a professor at the Valparaiso (Ind.) University School of Law and an animal-law expert, was placed in charge of the dispersal.

...

In the end, 47 of the 51 Vick dogs were saved. (Two died while in the shelters; one was destroyed because it was too violent; and another was euthanized for medical reasons.) Twenty-two dogs went to Best Friends, where McMillan and his staff chart their emotional state daily; almost all show steady improvement in categories such as calmness, sociability and happiness. McMillan believes 17 of the dogs will eventually be adopted, and applicants are being screened for the first of those. The other 25 have been spread around the country; the biggest group, 10, went to California with BAD RAP. Fourteen of the 25 have been placed in permanent homes, and the rest are in foster care.

[KurtNYC]

152. That describes the seized dogs -- not the breeding operation

Call me a puritan but I think the following type of activity should be banned:

April 25, 2007 - Police conducted a search of home and land at 1915 Moonlight Road in southeastern Surry County. In the area of the outbuildings that law enforcement officials discovered evidence of a possible dog fighting operation. Potential evidence included blood spatter on the second floor of one of the outbuildings, dog treadmills and scales, a pry bar used to open a dog's mouth and an apparatus used for breeding, known as a Rape Rack .<18> With the help of animal control officials from several localities called to the scene, they removed 66 dogs, 55 of them pit bulls, and seized equipment and some physical evidence.

Other sources describe where Vick bought his breeding dogs and for how much. It is all in the court filings and Vick has plead guilty.

Totally disgusting. How well-meaning animal lovers can defend pit bull breeding and fighting is beyond me.

[MadHound]

123. And you know this how, exactly?

Vicious dogs are usually trained to be vicious, not bred that way. And frankly any dog can be trained to be vicious, including labs, poodles and mutts. But hey, what would I know, I just do rescue work and was a vet assistant for a number of years.

[KurtNYC]

151. Aggression is a trait which they are selecting for

Vick spent big bucks to get the best fighters. He selectively bred for aggression and stamina in the fight ring.

As for the seized pits:
On July 7, 2008 an article was published by the Washington Post reporting on the status of the dogs. At the time of the article, two of the seized dogs had been euthanized - one for aggression, as mentioned previously, and one due to health problems. Of the 47 remaining dogs, 22 were sent to an animal sanctuary at the Best Friends Animal Society in Utah because of aggression toward other dogs, and 25 were placed in foster care.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bad_Newz_Kennels_dog_fighting_investigation#Disposition_of_dogs

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

130. Only one of Vick's dogs were put down

And if a dog kills somebody, there's generally a bad human behind it.

Deed, not breed, but please continue to "enlighten" us.

[auburngrad82]

61. Bad breeders are the problem

The breed itself can be wonderful with people. That's one of the reasons they're the number one breed stolen from people's yards- they'll go with anyone.

We met one this weekend that was not only beautiful but was an absolute love with people and dogs. She would be an awesome ambassador for the bully breeds. I'm guessing that's why the pet store owner had her there- to show people how good they can be.

Unfortunately there are a lot of really bad pit bull breeders and more than a few bad owners. I've seen puppies as young as three weeks old at the vet. When I asked why the person got a puppy that young I was told that the breeder said if they didn't take the dog he was going to drown it. talk about an asshole...

The period between 5 weeks and 8 weeks are a very important time in which a puppy learns a lot about interacting with other dogs, ie its littermates and mother. When you take any dog away from its litter before 8 weeks you are doing a lot of harm as far as socialization.

Any breed can bite and any breed can be aggressive. I'd venture to guess that Chihuahuas and Poodles bite more people than Pits. The problem with Pits is if you take a poorly socialized dog with the incredible biting power that a Pit has, they can do a lot of damage.

The gist of it is Pits should only be owned by dedicated, responsible owners who will take the time to socialize and train the dog. And anyone interested in getting a Pit should make sure they are getting the dog from a breeder who has the welfare of the breed and of the dog in mind. I personally would avoid some of the breeders who advertise in the magazines with names like Killah Pitz, or Nuclear Bullies, or some such name that appeals to people who want a "scary" dog. They are marketing to the wrong kind of person, the kind of person who isn't likely to have the dog for anything more than a very scary alarm system and who couldn't care less about socialization or breeding.

Of course, if this rule were followed by all owners there would be a hell of a lot less abandoned dogs in shelters around the country...

[PeaceNikki]

63. I've had rescue pits and they've been raised by my cats

And wonderful with children.

[EmilyAnne]

140. The pit was at a pet store? Oh no. Pet stores make bad breeding an industry.

[KurtNYC]

120. so your theory is that selective breeding does not work?

so people who spend millions on stud fees to get thoroughbreds are just... idiots

And Darwin, Mendel, John Hopkins and the rest of science after 1646 is just a bunch of ... idiots

??

[MadHound]

124. Umm, what does your post have to do with I said?

What does the subject of Darwin, Mendel, et. al. have to do with the AKC?

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

131. It's just down the rabbit hole day on DU

No matter the subject.

[tpsbmam]

34. Read PETA's statement on banning pit bulls.....

it has to do with how abused these animals are by humans, not how vicious the animals are. Don't fall for the media hype -- this is a human-created problem and dogs not bred/trained to be vicious rarely are.....just like any other breed/mixed breed. The only dogs I've ever been around who have given me pause have been dogs who've been mistreated & show it in their behavior. I LOVE dogs....I actually won my argument with my sister to return a mixed breed to a rescue group. It was only a matter of time until that dog attacked someone and he was a big dog. Poor thing....it was all due to the abuse he'd received before a rescue group tried to adopt him out. The pit bull BS now is fueled by our ignorant media.....among other things, other dog breeds are often confused with pit bulls, so attacks by those breeds are often lumped into the "pit bull" attack category. These include bull mastiffs, bull terriers, American bulldogs.....even animal control officers at one even couldn't, for the most part, accurately identify a pit bull. http://petcare.suite101.com/article.cfm/recognizing_the_pit_bull_breed


PETA's stance on pit bulls:
http://www.peta.org/about/hottopic007.asp

(Edited: typo)

[flvegan]

37. Laughable. n/t

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

31. Rolfmao! Adorable! :)

[distantearlywarning]

35. The best dog I ever had the privilege to know was a pit bull

She belonged to my in-laws. She was from a very good line, and trained for personal protection as a puppy/young dog. She was also about 15 lbs bigger than the average pit bull, and it was all muscle. Looks-wise, she was incredibly intimidating. People would literally cross the street when they saw her coming on a leash. And there is no doubt in my mind that she had the strength and the ability to kill a man if she were ordered to do so.

On the inside, however, she was incredibly intelligent, fiercely loyal to her people, friendly, and a big sweetie. She lived on a farm, and decided very early on that it was her duty on this earth to watch over and love all the other animals in her territory, particularly the barn cats and their kittens. I have a picture of her sleeping on a couch with about 15 tiny kittens piled all over her, all happy as could be. She never failed to be gentle, loving, and careful with all the small fragile creatures in her domain. That included my nephew, who spent years 2 through 12 under her watchful eye.

She was the smartest dog I ever met - she knew at least 100 words of English, and about 25 different hand commands. Interacting with her, you'd kind of forget she was a dog sometimes. She often just seemed like another (rather quiet) person in the room. She took her cues about strangers from my mother-in-law - the first time I ever met her, she watched me get out of the car, then looked at my MIL's face and body language, and then she came bounding over to me joyfully, giant toothy mouth in a big grin, clearly saying "MIL says you're a friend, so hi, nice to meet you!". Even though we never visited them more than a couple times a year at most, she never forgot me. Every time, as soon as I got out of the car, she knew exactly who I was, and came running over with a big doggy smile to say hello.

To my knowledge, she was never once inappropriately aggressive toward any living creature, including my young nephew. She certainly never displayed any behavior in my presence that would lead me to believe she was a dangerous dog. In fact, I always had the distinct impression that she had more self-control than quite a few humans out there, perhaps because of her extensive training. She was typically a very calm, well-behaved, confident dog who readily took social cues from humans, but who was also smart enough to make good decisions on her own - the doggy version of a black belt martial artist. The one incident that I ever heard about in which she displayed the desire to fight or aggress went like this: my nephew was playing with a few of the kittens in the living room one night, when the dog got up and started growling at the door. It was obvious to my MIL that she was deadly serious and ready to fight. My MIL went to the window, and lo and behold! there was a bear outside in the front yard. The dog was bound and determined to protect her human and feline family who were inside the house, and they literally had to chain her in the mud room to keep her from leaping through a window to go drive off the bear.

I don't like dogs much, I'm more of a cat person. But I loved this dog from the very first day I ever met her. She was something special. I cried when I heard that she had cancer. We lost an amazing soul when she passed away. And if I had kids, I would have had no problem whatsoever handing them over to her care. She was more trustworthy than many human babysitters out there.

And because of that experience, I would probably get a pit bull if I ever did decide to get a dog.

They're not all bad. Some of them are amazing, like my in-law's pit. But I also think, just like with every other breed of dog (and children too), that the animal's behavior is a reflection of the owner's behavior. I have no doubt that her rigorous training as a young dog contributed to her frame of mind and attitudes. As did the way she was handled on a daily basis - with love, respect, and consistency. I don't believe there are any naturally bad dogs out there, with the exception perhaps of over breeding problems. But there are a lot of bad owners, who transmit their bad behaviors to their dogs. It's just sad that the dogs get the lion's share of the blame.

[tpsbmam]

38. ITA.....my friend's adopted pit bull

was an absolutely WONDERFUL dog. My little 13-pound rescue tried to start fights with him on any number of occasions -- the pit bull was having none of it and consistently ignored my little fool's aggression. He was a bright, loving FABULOUS dog. When my friend died, I'd have adopted him in a flash but for my little rescue, who would have made it very difficult to integrate him into our home......I wouldn't expect ANY dog to put up with that constantly and knew I'd have to be constantly vigilant. But if it were just me or me and my female Westie, I'd have been begging to adopt that wonderful dog! As it was, he went to a good home. He had a rough start (was almost starved to death when she found him) and deserved nothing but a great life given what he'd been through -- I hope he has that now.

[seabeyond]

40. what a thread, the bravos... that totally dismiss those dead and maimed by aggressive dogs

it is not an illusion, a story told that little ones and old ones alike have died or been maimed by these dogs. i am not anti ban. but this thread is truly offensive in the dismissing of others suffering. fellow human beings. people that did nothing wrong, in the most painful of ways, dying.

and to dismiss with

ahhhh isn't this cute. you tell em. bravo. the humanity of it. yada yada

it is a cute picture. and one could share the picture. without trying to pass it off that those deaths and injuries are nonexistent.

this really is a bothersome thread

[PeaceNikki]

42. Then hide it.

[seabeyond]

43. why?

[PeaceNikki]

45. OK, or just shake your finger at everyone. Whatever makes you feel good.

[seabeyond]

47. more like speak out in rememberence for those that have suffered, injury, death or loss

of a loved one.

since so many others on thread prefer to pretend they arent there.

[PeaceNikki]

49. k. Whatever floats your boat.

I spoke upthread about my friend whose face was mauled by a Black Lab.

Catch that?

[seabeyond]

50. peace. n/t

[PeaceNikki]

53. The whole point of this thread is to address the fact that there is no such thing as an aggressive

breed/bad breed.

There are aggressive dogs, bad dogs, bad breeders and mostly shitty, neglectful and abusive owners.

But, bravo for YOU in circling it back to the point that people buy into the media hype that it's all about breed. I will never understand how DU can collectively curse the media while still buying into their hype on topics that suit them.

Carry on and peace to you as well.

[elizfeelinggreat]

64. I'm not speaking for the other poster

but I'd like to add that I was turned off by this thread also. I quickly scrolled past the picture because I really didn't want to see a picture of a child who had been attacked.

I was attacked by a dog as a child, not a pit bull but the breed doesn't really matter because dogs do attack children and this joking is hurtful and thoughtless to one who has been in or near that experience. Nitpicking the breed argument does seem to belittle the danger sometimes.

Owners who were respectful of what a dog could do to a child helped me tremendously, those who scoffed at my fears perpetuated them. It really felt like bullying to me. One of the things I'm most proud of is that I did not pass my fear to my children, who do love dogs, it was a hard thing to manage.

[PeaceNikki]

65. As a pit bull "defender" and mom, we're in a unique position.

And often find ourselves on DU defending the breed, our dogs, our right to love and live with them, our judgment in general, our "bad-ass" complex and on and on ad nauseam.

So, when people take a thread that was started with the intent of showcasing their positives to again try to point out their horrific nature - disagreements are bound to arise.

[seabeyond]

68. if it were to just show a positive on the breed that would be one thing, and i said in initial

post, it was a cute picture. it is the snide.... danger... danger breed, dont leave children, warning. and the all the giggles

that is offensive.

[PeaceNikki]

70. Hmm... "snide" and "giggles" are tough to convey on the internets.

But... hey, be offended. (see signature image below)

[LostinVA]

77. "I quickly scrolled past the picture because I really didn't want to see a picture.... been attacked

:rofl:

Go look at the photo in the OP!

[Jamastiene]

142. "a picture of a child who had been attacked."

Maybe, it wouldn't hurt for you to go back and look at the picture in this case. Honestly. Some dogs are nice family pets.

[elizfeelinggreat]

147. Maybe it wouldn't hurt for you to read my post all the way through

and not assume anything.

OF COURSE I looked at the picture - that's how I knew it was a joke. Are you implying I thought that there was a picture of a mauled kid and then posters here were joking about it? I thought a PM to the first poster who implied I hadn't seen it was enough but obviously I have to clarify since you posted it again.

I have no desire to start another big deal between people who love dogs and those who the "dog lovers" think hate their dogs. That's not the case and I was just trying to add some information for posters that might not realize that they were hurting feelings with the joking. I didn't realize there was a feud going on.

To reiterate: After reading the first few replies anyone can tell it's a joke but you would not know that by the title of the thread and that's why I said it was thoughtless to post that title (a joke, ha ha). Since I replied to a post way down the thread I have obviously read through them and know it's a joke with that cute picture.


Also, I do have and know lots of nice family pets. Honestly.

Hopefully I've cleared this up but just in case:

elizfeelinggreat < not a dog hater.

[lukasahero]

56. As you can see, the poster doesn't want to discuss *that* scenario

It obviously doesn't fit with the agenda.

[seabeyond]

66. i discussed what concerned me about this thread. the jovial dismissal of peoples pain, hurt, deaths

that is why i posted on this thread. that was my concern.

for the poster that answered, how being attacked when she was young, this thread was hurtful to her. my exact concern

i guess you could also say to peace that she chose to address my post and only talk about her agenda, not what i had posted about. ah but you dont cause after all, you have your agenda.

[PeaceNikki]

67. I merely pointed out that, well before you arrived, we had already discussed some horrific incidents

involving dogs maiming and injuring people.

[lukasahero]

80. I was attacked by a dog as a child as well

I also know dogs that have been abused and animals that have been killed by 'children'.

I thought this OP was a cute reminder that dogs and young children should never be left alone together because of what they can do to each other - that's it's not just a one way street.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

89. I was attacked by a Lhasa Apso when I was a kid

That dog went on to attack the owner's daughter requiring plastic surgery. I wouldn't get offended by a thread about Lhasa Apsos. It's a dog. That's it. We should be punishing the deed, not the breed.

[seabeyond]

90. punish the dog??? it isnt the dogs fault, it is the owners...

repeating.... it isnt about the breed, i dont give a shit about breed, nothing to do with breed.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

92. If it has nothing to do with breed, why are you so hung up on pits?

[seabeyond]

94. i dont believe i am.... why are you assuming i am? n/t

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

97. "these dogs" -- right in your response to the OP

This is a thread about pit-type dogs, so it's pretty safe to assume what you mean by "these dogs."

[seabeyond]

98. there is that ole reading comprehension you mention

i believe i used "aggressive" dogs in post and not any particular breed

ya think.....

but hey

even if i did use pit, which i didnt, since they are implying this is a pit, which a poster says it isnt, to use pit would have been natural and not necessarily an obsession with the pit, but just following the op. that is logical. but.... i am so good, and so not pit obsessed, i used aggressive dog.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

99. It's not a APBT, it's a Bull Terrier, but it gets lumped in with them for the purposes of BSL

[seabeyond]

100. i just got done mentioning that. reading comprehension

implying this is a pit, which a poster says it isnt,

[PeaceNikki]

101. "Pit Bull" is not actually a breed,

but rather a label used to describe many breeds. Typically, these five breeds come to mind:

* American Bulldog
* American Pit Bull Terrier
* American Staffordshire Terrier
* Staffordshire Bull Terrier
* Bull Terrier
* Mini Bull Terrier

[seabeyond]

107. "Pit Bull" is not actually a breed,... i know. n/t

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

103. Do you ever use punctuation and capitalization?

It would make your posts way easier to read.

[seabeyond]

105. dupe

[seabeyond]

106. no

and only a few seem to complain and they are the ones that are arguing. in general, i have people interacting back and forth regularly with no complaint. as you and i have tangled on occasion, with no complaint, then boom.... attack the capitalization. no i dont. dont like my posts, dont read. lol.

[distantearlywarning]

115. Kind of like, "don't like the thread, don't read?"

Good advice, I'd say!

[seabeyond]

116. silly, lol. n/t

[distantearlywarning]

127. truth is sometimes inconvenient, lol. n't

[tangent90]

109. Wouldn't help them make sense though.

:shrug:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

46. Fine with me. The dead and maimed are irrelevant.

They're statistically insignificant, and can be written off as irrational fears of an ignorant public.

More babies are killed drowning in the bath tub.

[guitar man]

57. by Bull Terriers?

Really? Because that's what the dog in the picture is, a (most likely registered) English Bull Terrier. Not a APBT.

[seabeyond]

69. i am not in the whole pit bull back and forth battle. that isnt what my post is about

and i dont know, nor care what the dog is.

that was has ntohing to do with the intent of my post.

[guitar man]

74. then what exactly was the intent of your post? nt

[seabeyond]

75. what, you need a repeat? this thread is a gleeful dismissal of others suffering, in humor

i dont like it.

warning, watch out, *giggle giggle* protect your child *snarky* dont leave child alone.... this dog will getcha. then a cute picture. really an insensitive way at making a point. the dismissal of those that have been hurt, mauled, killed in dog attack.

[guitar man]

78. good grief

anytime somebody posts a bit of satire around here somebody has to go out of their way to be offended by it. :eyes:

[seabeyond]

79. i guess that is the risk one takes when trying to be funny at the expense of others.

good grief.... rollin eyes.

[Critters2]

82. It could be worse. I've actually seen pit bull supporters blame

the children and seniors who've been maimed and killed by these dogs..."they must've done something to scare the dog"..."they shouldn't have been eating around the dog"..."they made a quick move", etc.
Apparently, there are people who support the death penalty for walking too quickly past a dog.
Yeah, what's few dead people when a doggy is SO CUTE!!

[seabeyond]

85. not only blame

but so busy defending the dog and justifying behavior, absolutely no compassions, sorrow or empathy for the victim. yes.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

91. In all honesty, usually there's a reason for a dog to go after a kid

It's actually an adults fault though. Adults should be supervising to ensure that the kid doesn't do something stupid and get bit.

I have a dog who hates kids. Really fear aggressive with them. I wouldn't trust him alone with a child. And you know what one of the main reasons Border Collies are given up is? They bit a kid.

[seabeyond]

93. ya dumb shit kid dare to run under attack instead of standing like a tree

kids fault....

jesssus

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

96. I was talking about doing shit like poking, hitting, screeching, etc

And, if you actually read my post with comprehension, I was blaming the adults for not supervising kids and dogs, when they're together.

[MadHound]

83. I have to disagree,

This is not dismissing the deaths and maiming of kids by pit bulls. It is however trying to show that due to media hype and public fear, that those pit bull attacks have been blown way out of proportion. In other words, a positive thread about pits, at least until you decided to take a dump on it.

A few facts for you. Pits are responsible for only twenty one percent of the dog attacks each year, and that number is entirely suspect due to the publics' inability to properly ID a pit bull. Second of all, nine children die each year due to dog attacks, while 1,100 kids die due to parental attacks, yet where's the uproar over that? Finally, in temperament tests pit bulls score higher, having a better temperament than Golden Retrievers, Lhasa Apsos, Chihuahuas and many other dogs that are normally thought of as family dogs.

I find it hard to take your word that you're not attacking the breed when you come into a positive thread about the breed and shit all over it.

[seabeyond]

87. it could have been positive. but it was not i. it was the person that was sneering

at the fears one has to the pit or aggressive dog. they did not have to have scorn for the fearful in order to make a positive post. that took it from positive to negative.

and yes, you disagree, as we are all allowed to see differently. totally respect, though totally disagree

[MadHound]

126. Frankly I looked upon it as a joke,

If you think that it was ridiculing peoples' fears of pit bulls, well, that sounds like it is your problem. There are literally millions of posts, web pages, print pages that do basically the same thing, and not just in regards to pit bulls, but in regards to any animal that is generally thought of as vicious. This has been a staple of the humor community for a long, long while. I think that even the authors of the Bible made a commentary along this line, you know, that whole lions and lambs deal.

It isn't scorn, it is humor, perhaps you should get yours checked, it doesn't seem to be functioning correctly.

And I find it really hard to believe that you're offended by this. Most people who are offended by such things generally avoid them. Instead you're in here taking a dump on a positive thread and then proclaiming that you're innocent, that it is the fault of the post. Whatever, I think that you just wanted to take a dump on a positive pit post because you, for whatever reason, don't like pits.

[distantearlywarning]

128. Either that, or the poster in question is kind of nuts.

Having read his/her posts in other threads about a variety of subjects, I lean more towards that explanation myself.

[seabeyond]

148. i was not the only one that saw the "teasing" about people fearful of aggressive dogs to

being less than sensitive.

[PVnRT]

84. Well, then, go to the Lounge and look at kitty pictures

[seabeyond]

88. why?

[tangent90]

108. So bothersome you have read every post and replied about 20 times.

Uh huh

[seabeyond]

110. someone posts to me i generally respond. my way. i know i have the option of ignoring

and on rare occassions i ignore. but truly that is rare, cause my mama taught me... nah. teasing. hey look, this is post 21.

[Justpat]

51. That is a bull terrier

not a pit bull.


Bull Terriers are very kind and gentle dogs.

[PeaceNikki]

55. They are included in BSL

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5272009&mesg_id=5272809

[cherokeeprogressive]

52. I wonder how many pitbull supporters also support handgun ownership.

I'm guessing that every one of them would say since not EVERY gun has harmed a human, then guns should be unregulated.

[PeaceNikki]

54. Not I.

Stupid theory.

[distantearlywarning]

58. You got it.

I'm a supporter of the 2nd amendment also.

Were you trying to make some point with this comment? :shrug:

[Marrah_G]

59. I think both should be regulated and require special training and licensing !

[seabeyond]

71. i dont like either and would stand up for both right to own. n/t

[Diclotican]

62. tpsbmam

tpsbmam

You don't leave small children with a dog, period. Regardless of what type the dog, it is STILL a animal with feelings, and instinct who can hurt a child.. Have grown up with a Rotwailer and two Puddles I know about this a little.. And I for one would NEVER let a little child be alone with a dog, even if the dog had been a nice dog all his life.. A dog is a animal with their own feelings, and their own Psyche.. It can snap if they god enough.. And sometimes they do snap on the nearest living thing.

Diclotican

[seabeyond]

73. this was my thought. but then i was always considered over protective. maybe

people do

[Diclotican]

153. seabeyond

seabeyond

True;). It is better to be little over protective than sorry after it have happenend... Small or big dogs, they are still animals, and can bite..

Diclotican

[tpsbmam]

76. I totally agree....

Having seen my one dog, who was truly one of the gentle souls of the earth, snap at a 4-year-old who cornered her and wouldn't back off (I was right there and couldn't grab her fast enough), I know any dog will react if pushed hard enough. It's the one and only time that dog ever showed one ounce of aggression -- her typical mode was to roll onto her back and give in to everyone! Five minutes later, the kid was sitting on the floor with the same dog, sucking her thumb and patting the same dog.....but it certainly taught me that if THAT dog will snap, any dog will.

[Uzybone]

95. The numerous people maimed and killed by these animals are laughing too

BTW I used to own a pit and would never be foolish enough to have left him alone with my small children.

[PeaceNikki]

102. Here's my pit eyeing up her dinner

Actually, that kitten really keeps that pit in line. Both of my cats scare the living SHIT out of my Am Staff.

[astonamous]

137. Here is my little girl fascinated by a dancing bird on TV...

[madmusic]

117. Thread a facinating study in trollology

Seriously, this fascinates me in part because I think the MSM is one giant troll that loves to ignite flames wars without solving, or wanting to solve, much.

This is a cute picture and though the hook was a bit deceptive, jokes often mislead. Is the OP really a sadistic troll hell bent on igniting a flame war. Was the real intent to incite posters to whip out their virtual guns and knives? Or did some other good intentioned (or sadistic) poster incite?

Maybe these debates are "healthy" and lead to resolutions and solutions (though not usually, IMHO), and I find the cause and effect from a psychological point of view fascinating. Anyone else curious about the dynamics?

[TahitiNut]

129. I suppose it offers SOME an opportunity to posture self-righteously ...

... that they don't get IRL. Maybe they live lives of intimidation. Who knows? :shrug:

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

132. The OP isn't trolling at all

Can't say the same for some other posters.

[madmusic]

134. Agreed, and one point was that an innocent post exploded.

Why? I'm not trying to belittle anyone but am sincerely interested.

[uppityperson]

118. k&r with laughter, thank you. Every dog can be dangerous,

that looks like a very patient one.

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

125. The horror. The horror.

:rofl: :headbang: :rofl:

[Naturyl]

133. Here's another "cute" one...

22 Month Old Child Bitten in Face by Pit Bull: http://www.atv.ca/london/news_51378.aspx

[lucretia54]

136. My sweet dog Mary Jane is half Rottweiler and half German Shepherd

...which covers two of the top 5 rated most dangerous breeds! She is a dear and loves children, but just the same a child could poke her in the face or even go after one of our kitties and she would only follow what nature tells her to do if I wasn't there to watch. I have never taught her to guard anything but she does it naturally. I would never leave her alone with a child, but she is a wonderful playmate when I am in charge. Pets ownwers must be 100% responsible at all times.

[pacalo]

139. Hahaaaaa!

I love, love, love what the little artist did around the eye!

You made my night -- very clever thought process. :)

[Quantess]

143. While that picture is *super cute*

I would not trust just any Pit Bull around toddlers or small children up to age 4, at least. Not a Rottweiler, not a German Shepherd, not a Doberman, etc., unless their owners had trained their dogs well.

Cocker Spaniels are well known to bite! If the owners had a Cocker Spaniel, then hopefully they would have the good sense to keep the dog away from kids.