Chavez readying "artillery" for Americas summit

[Zorro]

Venezuela's President Hugo Chavez is preparing diplomatic "artillery" for a summit next month that could produce the first encounter between the anti-Washington leader and U.S. President Barack Obama.

Socialist Chavez suggested he will use April's Summit of the Americas to pressure the United States to drop a trade embargo it imposed on Cuba more than four decades ago.

"What Obama will bring, I don't know, we'll see," Chavez said during a televised Cabinet meeting on Tuesday.

"We are preparing for this summit, getting our artillery ready ... I reckon the canons will heard from here," he said without elaborating.

More at: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090318/wl_nm/us_venezuela_chavez_1

[Renew Deal]

1. Chavez shouldn't underestimate Obama.

That's the most common mistake of Obama challengers.

[cali]

2. Hard to see how this

kind of talk can aid in his ostensible goal of the U.S. dropping trade restrictions. I'm beginning to think that Chavez sees himself in some kind of competition with Obama. Either that or he's stupid. And I don't believe that for a second.

[NeedleCast]

8. Just typical Nationalistic rhetoric

This kind of talk keeps him popular, just like terra terra terra did for Bush.

[EFerrari]

14. Feeding and housing and educating people, facilitating health care

and industry which means jobs keeps him popular. Bush never did any of those things.

[NeedleCast]

25. Just rhetoric

Other than the fact that Hugo and George were cut from the same cloth. Wanna-be tyrants with a knack for using the world stage as a pulpit for their pompous rhetoric. Chavez throws people a bone and thumps his chest and his people love him for it. Not unlike the Toby Keith fans lusting to hear how their country kicks ass. Only difference is that one country has a massive military complex behind it, and one doesn't.

[EFerrari]

32. Non sequitur. n.t

[NeedleCast]

42. Maybe to the Chavistas

Feel free to elevate him to demagogue status if you so desire...that's what Hugo wants after all. We'll see how well these populist achievements he's made work when oil is at 45 dollars a barrel instead of 120.

Just more international chest thumping...the kind of things rival politicians have been doing since time immortal. Chavez and Bush may be as far apart as can be on the left-right political spectrum but they're both hard-core authoritarians.

Give the people their bread and circuses and they'll keep voting for your most of the time. In Hugo's case, sometimes you'll need multiple votes on the same referendum to get the result you desire.

[EFerrari]

44. Venezuela's voting system is more transparent than yours. n/t

[NeedleCast]

48. And?

You do love chopping at your straw men...

[EFerrari]

49. Naming a random logical fallacy is not an argument. lol

[NeedleCast]

52. Sort of like you did? lol lmao omg kthxbai

You constantly try to paint people who are anti-Chavez as somehow being pro-Bush/conservative.

That isn't the case. Both of them are authoritarians. I don't like authoritarians.

Chavez is the guy at the bar who's always talking about how he's going to kick this guys ass, and kick that guys ass and all the ass he's going to kick...but none of the people he's threatening to kick around are at the bar. No different from Bush...well, except for the fact that Bush tried, and failed.

[EFerrari]

53. Well, no I don't. LOL! You brought up elections, my green beered friend.

And he couldn't be more different than Bush. Bush never did anything for anyone except get them killed, maimed or homeless.

[Naturyl]

37. That's really pure crap.

Other than Chavez actually feeding, housing, and improving the lives of his people, yeah, they are "cut from the same cloth." Certainly both are egomaniacs - but who in politics isn't? Do you expect non-egotistical people to run for high office? Free clue - they very rarely do.

The vital, all-important difference is that Bush is an egomaniac who couldn't care less about progress and justice, while Chavez is one who does. Not all iconoclasts are bad. FDR was an iconoclast, too. He had THE NERVE to totally redefine what it means to be an American, and he did it without apology.

Most leaders have a healthy ego. It's just the nature of leadership. It's the *policies* that matter.

[NeedleCast]

47. You Chavists love knocking over this straw man

You all keep acting like people who don't like Chavez are all Bush supporters.

So here's a free clue for you - I don't like either of them, because they're both authoritarian doucheclowns who butter their bread by using rhetoric to trump up a bullshit sense of nationalism. Hugo "lets keep voting on the same thing until I get the results I want" Chavez use of bread and circuses to ingratiate himself to the people isn't really any different that G-dubs using terra terra terra to ramp up nationalist sentiment...and it worked like a charm for both of them (probably more so for Bush). Chavez is nothing but the proverbial David talking smack to Goliath...except in this case Goliath never wanted a fight in the first place.

Like I said upthread, we'll see how well these populist movements Chavez has put in place will hold up with oil at 45 dollars a barrel vice 125.

Anywho, I'm drunk, it's late...and I'm off to bed Happy green beer day!

[Naturyl]

54. Hehe... that's fine, but...

Chavez improves the lot of his people. Bush didn't. That makes ALL the difference.

Hope you enjoyed St. Patty's, and best to you from a fellow imbiber. :)

[Cleita]

56. At least he throws bones, something we don't get anymore these days. nt/

[Truth2Tell]

3. I predict some very disappointed DUers

if Obama and Chavez successfully use this opportunity for rapprochement.

[bridgit]

10. Well they do produce allot of oil, and our oil company dudes botched it all up...

and bush wasn't any assist anywhere so yeah, rapprochement seems in order

[flamingdem]

27. Obama needs to make friends with Latin America

or Hugo will gain more ground. In case you didn't hear a leftist just won the elections in El Salvador. Which country is NOT leftist in Latin America these days? And all of them want the embargo to end. I love you Obama but you need to work on your Cuba policy NOW. A few idiots in Miami/D.C. should not matter any longer. A la mierda con estos cavernicolos.

[flamingdem]

4. Obama has indicated that he will address the embargo issue anyway

so perhaps Hugo picked up on that news and is vying to make it look like he forced Obama's hand. Meanwhile since oil prices have dropped he cannot help out his buddy Fidel as much so maybe this is his way of saying "I care" in lieu of some extra subsidized oil for Cuba.

The news I am referring to was about how Obama would handle the Cuba question in Trinidad.

[EFerrari]

6. Do you seriously believe that Chavez watches the news in order

to form his positions? He and all the left leaning leaders have surely been planning carefully since before the election how they would approach Obama about Cuba and a host of other issues.

[Renew Deal]

12. The omnipotent, all mighty, Hugo Chavez cannot "learn" anything

He already knows everything.

The Chavez zealots are too funny.

[Naturyl]

13. I don't see anyone suggesting such nonsense.

The anti-Chavez crowd is also pretty funny in its zeal to paint with a broad brush.

[flamingdem]

20. What is pro or anti about my post?

Or you could read it as both:

1. Anti-Chavez: he is propping up Castro(s) with oil and attempting to become Latin America's leader on their coattails
2. Pro-Chavez: he is taking advantage of a weak policy that Obama is continuing - the embargo - and attempting to force a change

#2 - I wish it were so simple but it would be nice if Chavez could force a change. As it sits Obama will continue the inhumane embargo and it is time to end it... I am a believer but I do not give Obama high marks on Cuba so far and we need to make a step because Raul has no motivation to do so if it effects his power base.

So there is no pro or con here just logic. Hugo is a fact of life, his oil keeps Cubans from even more suffering for now -- same with some New Englanders struggling with heating bills -- well he did that in the past -- and the embargo needs to end but Obama has other concerns right now -- sadly he is not going to do the right thing for political reasons.

I hope that in Trinidad he surprises by offering a carrot. I'd like to see what Raul does.

[Naturyl]

26. Fair enough.

You are clearly a reasonable person with considered views.

That being said, I'm not sure "propping up Castro" is necessarily entirely bad. Cuba rates quite well in some areas, including health care and others.

And thanks for pointing out that Chavez helped many New Englanders with their heating bills when their own country wouldn't. Undoubtedly he did it to embarrass Bush - and he succeeded. Base motives can result in admirable outcomes, when skillfully applied.

[flamingdem]

33. Yes I have mixed feelings too

I haven't decided firmly about Chavez. Or the Castros for that matter. Latin America is not the United States. If Cuba had a "democratic elections" we know that they would likely be controlled by right wing interests propped up by the USA. Chavez was elected. There is a lot of propaganda that distorts what is happening in Venezuela. I take a wait and see position. As far as Cuba goes it is time to look to the future and stop rehashing the past. The Castros are almost history. Obama needs to make amends. On the whole the USA has terrorized Cuba for a long time and they will be our friends even if we do not agree with their system. That fact doesn't stop us from dealing with China, so...

[EFerrari]

17. Your language speaks for itself. If it comforts you to believe

that Latin American leaders sit on the edge of their couches hanging on the words of your presidents, have at it. lol

[Renew Deal]

19. So does yours

Tell us about the brilliant Chavez and his natural understanding of all subjects again.

[flamingdem]

22. I must be in a nest of gusanos or freepers

since there is some kind of personal angle to the Hugo issue here. Do DUers really care that much?

I thought not.

[EFerrari]

29. These OPs are meant to draw both. Unfortunately.

But, in a way, this match that some g or f DUers are so obsessed with doesn't matter as much as how Obama handles the big mess Bush left in Colombia, as I said to Cleita down thread. Venezuela and its allies will muddle along. Poor Colombia is in the hands of butchers and thieves and criminals.

[flamingdem]

35. Tell me more. I'm not up on Colombia as of late.

What's the latest mess going on there?

[EFerrari]

40. Well, the millions we pump into the drug business has badly polarized

the country and the poor people, as usual, are between the devil and the deep blue sea. Uribe's people keep getting popped for their criminality and labor leaders keep getting murdered by right wing paramilitaries. The FARC is not a band of angels, either. Bush built up some bases right against the border with Venezuela and somehow, paras and drugs keep moving through them and winding up on the wrong side of the border. Colombia is in dangerous confusion.

Chavez is good for riling people up but the stories we really should be reading is what is happening to people in Colombia. Now that Bush is out of power, I expect the situation to deteriorate even further because there's no bigger hand on the tiller.

[flamingdem]

43. If you haven't studied this google "la violencia" and Colombia

My ex was doing research on this period known as La Violencia in the 1950s when Colombia broke down into anarchy. Sounds like it's heading that way again. Perhaps the new drug czar will do something about stateside demand ... they say that this is the goal for once.

[EFerrari]

46. Thank you, I will. It really does sound like they're halfway there.

:(

[EFerrari]

24. Can you read English? I never said that. I was responding to the idea

that he takes his cues from watching Obama on television. As if the Andean leaders and their allies haven't been thinking and talking about this for months.

If you tell me which language you do read fluently, I'll see about trying to get you a translation.

[flamingdem]

30. You're provoking. Yawn.

And you aren't saying anything interesting. That leads me to believe you know nothing about the subject at hand.

[EFerrari]

31. Did you misplace this post? I was responding to the other poster.

[flamingdem]

38. Sorry! I haven't done DU for a couple months. I'm out of synch! nt

[flamingdem]

21. You're off on a tangent. Of course he is informed. Most presidents are don't

cha think?????? !!!

[EFerrari]

34. No, I was responding directly to your suggestion. If this is a tangent,

it was one of yours. lol

[flamingdem]

39. I'm lost now ... but it's too late to retrace the threads

but I caught your other post in which we agreed!

[EFerrari]

41. LOL! It doesn't matter.

:)

[Naturyl]

5. Chavez no se va

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgLE5nEG98g

[bridgit]

7. Wow, that seems a bit histrionic

[EFerrari]

11. Or, it was a joke. He also said, "Let's see what the pitcher throws"

and in English, "very interesting", not exactly soaring histrionic rhetoric. How can we tell without the visual? No matter what he says, it's spun this way.

[bridgit]

59. Chavez is recognized for his contributions to what is histrionic but I think that matter is worse...

than that. In a tenuous, unstable world he is being portrayed as a fellow willing to ride the sound of guns that aren't even firing, while alternatively to the sound of 'artillery shells', the implication there being that he is more Kipling and much less Petraeus as are contemporaneous war thinkers and so unable to properly assess any security breach or military threat to his own people. Though to me but for the school yard quality to the interruption, the matter is a non-story

Chavez has conducted joint naval with the Russians, and I'm quite sure he & his brass has sat with Russian military attache where at such meetings they were clued on contemporary, geopolitical war stratagems

Wherever the source of these remarks my sense is that they go to slather Chavez with a greasy palette knife as a man outside the concerns of his own people looking in, however...

I've come to expect little other than yellow-journalism from our so-called free press

[Cleita]

9. Who will be disappointed if

both leaders decide to come to a diplomatic agreement? Yes, I'm holding my breathe but both leaders have the capacity to do this.

[Renew Deal]

15. I doubt they'll even shake hands

Obama would catch a lot of heat, and he knows it. RWers are dying to get a picture of Obama smiling and shaking hands with Chavez.

[Cleita]

36. No. He will never seen on the same stage with such a person as Chavez.

It's a pity though because it makes him so much whiter and involved in the white society of our northern continents. However, I know there are many acceptable dictators in Latin America he could be photographed with.

[EFerrari]

18. In this global economy and with all the organizing Chavez and Correa

and the others have done, it isn't as important as it might have been ten years ago. I'm sort of more concerned about what Obama is going to do with that horrible mess in Colombia that Bush left him with.

[Cleita]

23. Funny enough.

I think I would know what to do. However, I don't have the education or background that he does, yet I think I would know what to do.

[EFerrari]

50. The vampiros are going to hold on as hard as possible to Peru

and to Colombia. I'm worried about those people.

[Cleita]

55. Yo se.

Que dios nos bendigo.

[originalpckelly]

16. We'll stop the embargo, but only if they don't let the Russians put bombers down there.

And Venezuela must agree to this too.

Until then, Cuba can go fuck itself.

[Idealism]

28. Russia is hurting pretty bad due to oil prices

Any attempt at arming themselves or Cuba further is more saber-rattling than anything. Russia is damn near broke.

[chollybocker]

45. "I reckon the canons will (sic) heard from here," he said.

Chavez reckons now?

[EFerrari]

51. They forgot the part where he twists his mustache and arches his brow.

[Judi Lynn]

57. He spoke in Spanish. The word "reckon" doesn't occur there.

Any beef you've got with his language should be taken up with the translator/propagandist. n/t

[killbotfactory]

58. OMG He's going to attack us with cannons!!!1

I think we all know what needs to be done: PREEMPTIVE STRIKE!