Merit pay for teachers? Obama needs to read this!

[lib_wit_it]

(Source below quoted material.)

One of the most misguided suggestions is that schools should be run more like businesses. In this business model, students are “clients” and instruction is a “delivered service.”

Whenever I hear this business accountability analogy, I’m reminded of the story of Jaime Vollmer, a one-time outspoken critic of public schools.

Because of his notoriety, Vollmer frequently spoke to business groups on total quality management, zero defects, continuous improvement, and how to produce the highest-quality product. During one of his talks, at a business and education roundtable in Iowa, Vollmer lashed out at the inefficiency and lack of quality in public schools.

Vollmer ended his speech with a pointed statement: “If I ran my business the way you people operate your schools, I wouldn’t be in business very long.”

After Vollmer’s speech, a teacher in the audience raised her hand with a question. In an account he later published on his web site, Vollmer recounts their exchange.

The teacher began quietly, “We are told, sir, that you manage a company that makes good ice cream.”

Vollmer replied smugly. “Best ice cream in America, Ma’am.”

“How nice,” she said. “Is it rich and smooth?”

“Sixteen percent butterfat,” Vollmer said.

“Premium ingredients?” she asked.

“Super premium! Nothing but AAA,” said Vollmer.

“Mr. Vollmer,” the teacher asked, “when you are standing on your receiving dock and you see an inferior shipment of blueberries arrive, what do you do?” A silent room awaited Vollmer’s response.

“I send them back,” he said.

“That’s right!” she snapped, “but we can never send back our blueberries. We take them big, small, rich, poor, gifted, exceptional, abused, frightened, confident, homeless, rude, and brilliant. We take them with ADHD, junior rheumatoid arthritis, and English as their second language.

We take them all! Every one! And that, Mr. Vollmer, is why it is not a business. It’s a school.”

The exchange between the teacher and Vollmer is complete, that leading up to it is snipped excerpts. Read the entire article, including how Vollmer actually listened and learned from this teacher:
http://www.openeducation.net/2007/12/21/what-does-a-bus...

[biopowertoday]

1. Thanks for the post. But Pres. Obama is listening to Arne Duncan-the

high stakes, charter school US school czar.



But I will post on the white house site anyway.

[lib_wit_it]

2. I wonder if a mass of DUers posted this there it might get to Obama's eyes. Where is the

best place within whitehouse.org to post this. I don't see any place to email or post comments at http://www.ed.gov/about/contacts/gen/index.html?src=gu. I am so disappointed that he chose Duncan. She needs to read about blueberies herself.

[biopowertoday]

8. I just posted it on the regular WH contact site........

btw. arne is a male--an Obama basketball player-close friend.

[lib_wit_it]

16. Oh, good, and thanks for the info. If I were still teaching I'd have known who Arne was!

[Diane R]

3. Parent's have a legitimate concern about the quality of some teachers. I wish educators would....

...be open to a dialogue about that, rather than focusing on the issue of merit pay.

I think all parents would confirm that there are many excellent teachers. I wish teachers would admit that there are some poor teachers, some very unqualified teachers...and some dangerous teachers.

If we could start at the point, we could improve American education. But as long as teachers gather the wagons, and refuse any discussion of the problem, we'll continue to see inept solutions such as Merit Pay.

I favor eliminating the tenure system and starting over. And before you scream that it's unfair because the person evaluating might be 'biased'....welcome to the real world.

[emmadoggy]

7. I'm not a teacher, but here is what I see...

I don't think teachers are trying to deny that there are some bad teachers out there. Teachers are trying to get everyone to see the big picture -that a certain percentage of bad teachers is NOT what is bringing the whole system down. Bad teachers are just a small piece of the whole pie. Probably the largest piece of that pie is inadequate funding of our schools. The inadequate funding causes or feeds a whole slew of other problems, such as schools not having the supplies and resources they need, not enough staff resulting in too-large classes and stressed teachers, not to mention children falling through the cracks. It also causes schools to operate in old, cramped and inefficient buildings. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

The point is, teacher quality is just one small part of the problem and until the other issues are addressed as well, the teacher issue will not sort out.

[lib_wit_it]

15. Great points!

[lib_wit_it]

14. I agree that there are lousy teachers, and they need to go.

[Hello_Kitty]

21. Teachers, and everyone else, have a legitimate concern about the quality of parents.

I think we should be open to a dialogue about the fact that some parents are excellent - engaged with their children and making sure they are prepared for school every day. Some parents are not. They park their kids in front of TV and computer games, while stuffing them with whatever the medication du jour is. I wish we could all admit that there are some poor parents, some very unqualified parents...and some downright dangerous parents. If we could start at that point, we could improve American parenthood. But as long as parents gather the wagons (and god knows we dare not even discuss the obvious fact that some people are ill-equipped to rear children, yet we let any blithering moron procreate) we'll continue to see inept "solutions" like Child Tax Credits.

I favor eliminating all tax credits for parents and starting over. And before you scream that it's unfair because the person evaluating might be "biased"...welcome to the real world.

:shrug:

[lib_wit_it]

35. Ha! So very true. In fact, those who procreate the most are often some of the worst parents.

[vssmith]

22. Teacher's have a legitimate concern about the quality of some parents.

[proud2BlibKansan]

26. And I wish people like you would realize the problem is at the administrative level

They hire the teachers. Poor teachers don't become poor overnight.

Teachers gather the wagons because because we get beat up on and blamed for problems we have zero control over.

We aren't the bad guys. You all need to realize that and quit attacking us.

[woo me with science]

33. "people like you"

I didn't see the poster attacking all teachers...just wanting to acknowledge that there are bad ones. Maybe the solution IS administrative; I certainly don't see the poster saying that it would not be.

Your hostility here toward the poster for even raising the issue is way out of line and does not contribute to a constructive discussion.

[proud2BlibKansan]

34. It's hard to have constructive discussions

when teachers here are blamed for problems out of our control and when we try to inform we are called liars or accused of being in denial. We have also been told we are not fit to teach and one DUer even told a teacher she should be working at 7-11.

I would love to have a reasonable discussion. Sadly I find that not possible.

[lib_wit_it]

36. Really! There has been some real Rethug style teacher hate being spewed in these discussions.

[lib_wit_it]

37. Absolutely!

[endless october]

4. good post.

i'm against merit pay because it just forces teachers to jockey for position to get the best kids. that's bad for the kids and the teachers.

this failing schools / worst schools in the world bullshit is invented by the Limbaugh / Hannity crowd because they can't stand that they can't break the teachers' unions. and that a government program works well.

that's not to say that some schools don't need help / improved funding / improved facilities.

[lib_wit_it]

17. Does the success of private schools have anything to do with the fact that they can kick out

difficult students. You bet it does.

[proud2BlibKansan]

27. And they are selective about who they admit as well

It's not a level playing field. Comparing public and private schools is just ignorant.

[Bigmack]

5. All teachers would get merit pay....

if all kids were merit kids.

[BlooInBloo]

6. Teaching is sooooooo special! It's NOT POSSIBLE to assess teachers!

:rofl:

Get the fuck out with that weak sauce.

[Bigmack]

9. Who assesses them.... YOU?

What training do you have? Training in subject matter? Pedagogy?

Problem is... a lot of administrators that I knew were teachers who really didn't like the kids or the classroom or were incompetent with one or both of them. Not all admins, but a healthy - or unhealthy - percentage were lousy evaluators.

Kids? Should kids assess teacher performance?

How about parents?

How about a committee?

Assessing the teacher for which students? The honors kids or the hard-cases?

How do you assess a teacher who has been assigned a class (s)he has not been prepared to teach?

NOT SIMPLE. Can be done, but it's tougher to do than pen some flip answer on a forum.

[BlooInBloo]

10. Please point to where I said it was simple. Thanks!

[Bigmack]

11. Please point to where anybody said it was impossible.... nt

[BlooInBloo]

12. You're kidding, right?

[ColbertWatcher]

13. You keep saying this!

This is not an argument, it's fast becoming a bumper sticker.

[rucky]

20. You can attach metrics to almost anything.

The problem with the current merit pay arguement is that people are stuck on tying it to student achievement - which is unfair. Critics should be coming up with ideas, like tying it to student improvement, instead of rejecting the idea altogether.

[Bluenorthwest]

30. Let's use the same metrics

that they are using in the financial world. The teachers that fail get very large bonus payments, in order to retain their 'talent'. Seems fair. Goose, gander.
Metrics for all, but the same metrics. Talking about testing teachers for merit while rewarding criminal bankers with fortunes is so hypocritical it just leaves me cold.

[rucky]

38. ain't that the truth.

one thing the GOP double-standard-holders realize all too well: Perfect is the enemy of good. And we fall for that fallacy all the time.

[Hello_Kitty]

39. Can we assess parents too?

After all, I'm always hearing about how it's a job, and how haaaaaaaard it is. Apparently it's "the most important job in the world". That being the case, why isn't there some evaluation system for parents, with the bad ones being held accountable and the good ones rewarded?

Or are they too "special"?

[GumboYaYa]

18. Opinions and silly analogies don't mean much to me and certainly don't make a case for either side

of this argument. I am definitely not swayed by the blueberry story.

I was able to find surprisingly little research in this area, but there is one recent study out of the University of Florida (http://news.ufl.edu/2007/01/04/teacher-merit-pay/) that concluded:

“This research provides the first systematic evidence of a relationship between individual teacher performance incentives and student achievement in the United States,” Figlio said. “We demonstrate that students learn more when teachers are given financial incentives to do a better job.”

Also, I believe that the Minneapolis teachers union initially opposed teacher merit pay, but after implementing the program the union subsequently voted twice to expand it once they saw it in operation.

If there is additional research on this that someone can provide, please do so. From the limited sources I found, it seems that the debate is very much still out on this issue and a bad truckload of blueberries will not give us the answer.

Certainly the success of a plan will depend upon the fairness of its application. The means by which incentives are allocated need to be based on factors that take into account the nature of the student body (social and economic demographics are a big part of this) and the baseline of performance a teacher starts with in the student body. Additionally, teachers must be given the resources to do their jobs properly.

I am not one who believes that teacher merit pay alone is the answer to a failing school system, but perhaps a well-designed merit pay system together with other systemic changes that must be undertaken are pathways we should consider to improve our schools. The one we are on right now clearly does not work.

[Hannah Bell]

23. "when teachers are given financial incentives to do a better job.” Bullshit.

1. University of Florida

[PVnRT]

24. ...and how do you measure it?

Is a teacher better because they spend an entire year preparing a class to take a standardized test? Because that's what you'll get with merit pay in the U.S. educational system.

[GumboYaYa]

29. I think that is what we shoud be discussing rather than completely

rejecting anything that does not fit nicely in the teacher's union agenda. See the response above yours to see a perfect exammple of what we don't need. "bullshit" is not an argument. It scares me that so many people teaching our children seem to think it is legitimate to simply reject new ideas without any substance behind the rejection.

There are examples of well constructed programs out there that we can use as a start.

[woo me with science]

31. Thank you.

A discussion is warranted, with the understanding that some ideas may be terrible and others may be very useful. The defensiveness and claims that any desire to discuss the issue constitutes an "attack" on teachers are getting very old.

[woo me with science]

32. Thank you for this.

The vehement posts for and against merit pay seem to come along with preconceived assumptions about how the system would work. We need more of these kinds of posts, that detail actual possibilities and proposals, in order to have a more realistic discussion.

[rucky]

19. It's a good point made against charter schools, but not necessarily merit pay.

Charter schools receive public money to run a school to state standards without intervention from local districts.

Charter schools can be owned by for-profit corporations. Unlike schools, profit has to the built-into how they allocate the money they receive. My personal experience teaching at a charter school has verified that the profit motive is incentive to cut-corners on the mandates given to them by state and federal authorities.

This affects class size, allocation of Title I money, administrative support, and especially special-ed intervention support. Plus there's an extra fear of liability that put draconian measures in controlling the students- i.e. no recess

[proud2BlibKansan]

25. I love this story

So true.

[C......N......C]

28. All the famous teacher stories I can recall seem to reflect on sensitivity.

Rewarding some of a group at the expense of the feelings of the others. That is sure to instill harmony and co-operation. How would you assess the merit pay. Track down students 20 years later and see how they are doing. I bet it would be hard to find a difference based on the performance of a teacher.