I Don't Care About AIG's Bonuses

[BradBlog]

I Don't Care About AIG's Bonuses

I guess I'm just in the minority here, but I'm having a bit of trouble getting exercised about $165 million (just to put that into perspective, the movie sequel The Chronicles of Narnia: Prince Caspian had a budget of $200 million) in bonuses to AIG employees.

Yeah, it's a shame that approximately one-tenth of one-percent of the $144 billion made available to the company by the federal government in bailout monies went to such bonuses, but where is all the furor from public officials, media outlets and bloggers --- from both Right and Left --- over the 12 billions of dollars (with a "b") sent over to Iraq as pallets of cash (literally, shrink-wrapped $100 bills), which then simply disappeared into that trillion (with a "t") dollar rat hole without accounting or explanation?

Where is the outrage and accountability there? Nowhere...

FULL STORY: http://www.bradblog.com/?p=6996

[JuniperLea]

1. Thank Goddess for hide thread... eom

[slackmaster]

2. Someone pinch me, I agree with Brad on something

My outrage over it is in proportion to the dollar amount.

:hi:

[960]

3. Let's investigate the $12 B Givewaway... I am all for investigating everything.

2 wrongs don't make a right, and comparing the money to the cost to produce a major motion picture is a poorly constructed straw-man.

The movie money provides jobs, produces a product, entertains and hopefully reaps a profit. This AIG money is down the shithole.

[Fresh_Start]

4. ditto investigate both issues

rather than ignoring either

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

23. did they commit fraud? how 'bout the Merrill Lynch bonuses? ignore them...

...too?

There could have been crimes committed, you clowns. These fuckheads gamed the system and put themselves in a win-win situation that they were going to walk away from, scot-free with fortunes in hand. There's sooooo much that is to be gained from investigations. Hard to take someone seriously who says walk away.

[phantom power]

5. I care because...

the individuals who caused the problem are still in charge, and they are still making themselves millionaires each year. And now they're making themselves millionaires with our tax money.

So... I care because if you add all that up, it equals "nothing is going to change" Why would they change? If they fail, they award themselves multi-million dollar bonuses. If they fail badly enough, they award themselves multi-million dollar bonuses with taxpayer bailout.

[Clear Blue Sky]

9. The government owns 80% of AIG so

technically Congress is in charge now. They appointed/hired the current CEO. They made the rules. They signed off on most of this.

[phantom power]

13. Exactly so.

[EFerrari]

6. Right. Why is all our attention being directed to this and right now?

[BlueJac]

7. I am just pissed about the last nine years....

make that the last 30! I am sick of Reagan/Friedman economics and the whole mess!!

[BradBlog]

14. I feel it necessary to note...

In reply to: "I am sick of Reagan/Friedman economics and the whole mess!!"

Different Friedman!!! :-)

[louis-t]

8. I wish people would stop trying to rationalize

by saying "oh, it's only such and such percent of the bailout." It is WRONG, if it was $20,000 or $50 billion. It's still wrong. Immoral, unethical, slap in the face to people who have to pay that money back-US!

[EFerrari]

11. It's not rationalizing to put the amount in context, though. n/t

[BradBlog]

15. It's not the amount...

...it's the selective outrage, Louis.

[dmr]

28. Selective outrage & a diversion to all else that plagues our financial interests

I'm not happy with any bonus given to these jerks. This morning I told my son that the cable shows and Congress were all ablaze, and it made me sick to listen to it.

The Fat-cats in Congress enabled all of this, and I doubt they'd have any serious outrage if it weren't politically advantageous. The Fat-cats in the media did not do their jobs reporting to Americans detrimental changes in our laws when the financial industry bought off Congress over the years.

They all spent tons of time bashing Blago's 'pay-to-play', but that is exactly what happens day in and day out in DC.

I found today's outrage-fest intellectually disgusting. Yet, one man stood up and carried the blame. I don't recall hearing that in my lifetime out of a president's mouth.

[dysfunctional press]

19. it's not wrong for the people who are contractually entitled to their bonuses to get them

not all bonuses are based on a company's performance.

[louis-t]

20. Right, these are 'retention payments.'

Listen, I have no problem with people getting 'performance bonuses'. You are forgetting that this company is being kept afloat by borrowed money. I keep thinking about an incident that happened to me 30 years ago. A guy worked for an organization I was with. We took out a loan. We gave him some money to purchase equipment. He paid his child support with the money to keep from going to jail. He never paid the money back. I ended up paying most of the loan back myself. Some time later, I heard he went on vacation to Florida. His comments to someone I knew were "Yeah, I spent a lot of money there, but I had a good time." :mad:

[dysfunctional press]

21. i'm not forgetting anything...

if a person's contract calls for them to get a base bonus of 25k for every year of employment, and he's been there 20 years- why isn't he entitled to that bonus? that's how a lot of executives pay is structured- and for some of the long-timers especially, their bonus is the biggest part of their salary, and it's paid all at once at the end of the year. these people's finaces- rent/mortgage/car payments/child-support/what-have-you, is based on those amounts that they are contractually entitled to. why shouldn't they get them, if they met the terms of their employment contract?

btw- the numbers and pay structure i'm using are all arbitrary- but it's meant to show that not all 'bonuses' are necessarily what people first think of when they hear the word 'bonus'.

and my opinion of loaning someone money is this- as long as they pay me back, it's THEIR business what they do with it.

[louis-t]

35. And if the government had let them fail, they would get

NOTHING!!! Anyone who is getting $1 million BONUS is lucky to have a job at their base pay. Note the limit of $250,000 base pay on the tax back idea. I'm not crying for anyone whose base pay is half a million or more, Argentina. Maybe you could fork over some of your pay to assist those making $1 million a year.

[dysfunctional press]

37. but the government DIDN'T let them fail.

i have no problem with limiting people's pay going forward- but it's WRONG totake back someone's pay that has already been earned under the terms of their contract. people's lives and life decisions are based on their paychecks- mortgages, car payments, entertainment, tuition, etc. etc....it wouldn't be right if the person is making $50K or $5million, to take back money already earned and contractually obligated- especially when it's mostly being done out of class envy.

as for me- my income is about $1200/month, as i am permanently disabled and have been drawing on my social security account since i was 38- and that amount is about 12% less than it should be, because one of my past employers went bankrupt without paying into FICA the money that they had deducted from my paycheck for over two years. so- i won't be 'forking over' anything, and i shouldn't have to- those people are entitled to their money.

[sam sarrha]

10. word is,,, that the "Rat Hole" is a 3 Trillion Dollar mess.. hidden in accounting

[spanone]

12. doesn't matter, everyfuckingbody else does.

[dysfunctional press]

18. apparently not.

i agree with the op.

[Raine]

26. Not necessarily nt

[BlooInBloo]

16. That's nice.

[blues90]

17. I agree !

The billions that went missing even after Waxman had his so called hearings and no one knew where the money went that was wrapped up and sent off to Irag. No one kept records or seemed to have a clue where the billions went. I guess it evaported into the ether just like all the issues of massive theft.

Each day there is a new news cycle apparently designed to push it all into the past and forgotten land and force the microscope up someone elses ass to see what they can find, and without cleaning the scopes lens off, off they go probing once again.

It's the same thing with all the weapons that suddenly vanished from two cargo planes or how this attack on Iraq was to be paid for by Iraq oil profits. "the war will pay for itself".

Just the fact that when the 9/11 attack happened the world was on our side willing to help find the perps and bring them to justice, this should have raised an enormous red warning flag that something is really wrong here when the GW admin tossed this in their faces and said we will go it alone. Wonder why that was.

Yet there is never an answer or a solution or an end other than the resulting mass public memory loss.

If I recall the first bailout bill with Paulson in charge allowed GW 100 million to use as he desired wonder where that went. NO outrage there!

[Mike 03]

22. "It is like a fly on the ass of a cow chewing its cud on the side of the road...."

That's a partial quote from the screenplay "Grand Canyon," from the character played by Danny Glover.

I agree with your post. The bonus issue is minimal trivia. And if people could understand who they are going to, they might not be getting their panties in such a wad. But nobody does any research anymore.

But this is an ethical question and I see both sides.

What I totally disagree with is the eagerness of people here to toss the blame in the laps of people like Geithner, Bernanke, Liddy.

It's just incredible how eager we are to eat the good guys alive and blind ourselves to who the responsible parties are.

It's like an orgy of ignorance. It's almost Bacchanalian.

K and R

[Raine]

24. I don't either

I think it's being used as a diversion by the talking heads. Get everyone venting their spleens on this spewing all their anger, never mind what went on the last 8 years. x(

[slipslidingaway]

25. K&R n/t

[MadMaddie]

27. You can't look at this as an isolated event

The housing bubble, the repackaging of debt, the billions given to AIG so they can pay off subsidieries who already received Tarp money. Berni Maddoff , the TX dude....

I still don't think we have seen everything there is to see. More is coming...don't be lulled into complacency and simplicity.

Yes, we should be outraged at all of the other things that occurred, those pallets of cash will be investigated I have no doubt.

[Booster]

29. Well, we apparently know where 85 million of it went when

Cheney admitted he had that amount invested in the prison system. For a guy that was making $240,000 a year for the last 8 years, I'd say he's a Hell of a saver. We could learn from a man like that.

[ColbertWatcher]

30. I agree, somewhat ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5283726&mesg_id=5283726

[pacalo]

31. Uh...yes, I do care about those huge bonuses.

[specimenfred1984]

32. I'm blogging, twittering, facebooking, youtubing, myspacing everything all the time!

Everything I say is so important and my superior ability to forgive every war criminal is just so wonderfully insightful. So, of course I don't care about AIG ripping me off, I can forgive them with my great big superior brain!

[Political Heretic]

33. I'm capable of being upset at more than one thing at once!

And I think its a GREAT thing that there is much public outrage here, even if its perhaps focused on a minor thing.

We need MORE OUTRAGE at the lunacy at fucking ridiculousness of wall street and our financial system - NOT LESS. So this is a good start.

[eppur_se_muova]

34. Those of us who have called "red herring" have not made ourselves popular.

At least, people need to recognize that Bu**sh** set the whole thing up -- http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3791086&mesg_id=3791086

[walldude]

36. Good thing you are here to put it in perspective...

I mean why should I be pissed off? Just because I can't make ends meet this month doesn't mean I should be upset about having to give money to some fucking asshole who probably needs a fucking gold toilet bowl for his yacht.