Some warnings for us, from the grave.

[No.23]

"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation then by deflation, the banks and the corporations will grow up around them, will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs."


"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies."


"I wish it were possible to obtain a single amendment to our constitution - taking from the federal government their power of borrowing."


The third President of he United States, Thomas Jefferson

[Hekate]

1. I'll recommend that

[fortyfeetunder]

2. 5th R -- go to Greatest Page!!

Our forefathers had a clue about how government should be operated. We should heed such wisdom.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

3. I think Jefferson

was the greatest President we've had. His words echo through the centuries, their immutable truths warning us, over and over.

Imagine what President Jefferson would have made of Chimpy Fucknuts. Imagine that they occupied the same office.

The longer Chimpy's gone, the worse he gets in my mind. The horror, the horror.

How did we survive?

K&R, and thank you for this incredibly prescient and, alas, timely post.

[No.23]

4. Since there are others in his fan club....

http://jpetrie.myweb.uga.edu/TJ.html

[IDemo]

5. Except that the first quote isn't his

http://www.snopes.com/quotes/jefferson/banks.asp

[No.23]

6. Thanks.

I love the term "retroquote" that Snopes uses.

It sounds so...

retro.

:)

[IDemo]

7. Not to say he loved banks

"I sincerely believe that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies, and that the principle of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale."

[No.23]

9. Damn, he's so frickin' right on.

And he's speaking to a long-time pet peeve of mine too.

Our willingness to screw with our childrens' future to gratify ourselves to day.

Narcissists that we are.

[chervilant]

37. Hedonists...

And, our much vaunted "free market" capitalism is a thin veneer over the rampant greed that drives our "economic" behavior. Most people I've met in my lifetime deride me for expressing this sentiment, but it has never felt more true.

[DireStrike]

31. In fact, none of the quotes are his according to snopes

A couple of similar statements have likewise been attributed to Jefferson and sometimes appended to the quotation in question: "I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies" and "The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs." Although these statements likewise lack documentation establishing them as authentically Jeffersonian, the former is a reasonably close paraphrase of the closing sentence in Jefferson's 28 May 1816 letter to John Taylor:

And I sincerely believe, with you, that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies; and that the principle of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale.


The latter statement is both undocumented not in accordance what Jefferson wrote in a 24 June 1813 letter to John Wayles Eppes:

But while this is going on, another measure should be pressed, to recover ultimately our fight to the circulation. The States should be applied to, to transfer the right of issuing circulating paper to Congress exclusively, in perpetuum, if possible, but during the war at least, with a saving of charter rights. I believe that every State west and South of Connecticut river, except Delaware, would immediately do it.

[RoyGBiv]

8. You need to add context for these ...

And, as has been mentioned already, fact check them.

They don't mean exactly what you want others to infer they mean.

[No.23]

13. As I remind my daughter, from time to time...

I'll plant some seeds, but it's you who decides what to do with them.

She's learning how to be a good gardener of thoughts by not taking everything at its face value.

I'm sure that there are plenty of good gardeners here too.

[RoyGBiv]

14. Fair enough ...

But it's also fair to suggest context is required, and discovering that context is what I assume you're hoping for.

We see a lot of "seed planting" for different purposes by quoting people out of context.

[No.23]

16. A quote, by its definition, is...

always only a piece of its context.

Unless the entire conversation or writing is revealed, then it's something more than a quote.

As an example, an infamous one (by Ralph) being "there's no difference between the Dems and the Repubs".

When he actually, context-wise, said quite something else.

I'll trust that you know what that context was.

[RoyGBiv]

17. Correct ...

Which is why I tend to question the motives in simply posting quotes.

[No.23]

18. Will you also agree...

that an effective way of questioning the motive or intent of someone who is offering a quote...

is asking the offerer what he or her intent was for offering the quote?

Had I been asked that, I would've said...

to encourage people to read more about Thomas Jefferson's beliefs about the banks.

That's why they call appetizers appetizers, and not entrees.

[RoyGBiv]

19. Believe it or not ...

I wasn't concerned with questioning you about your intent, per se.

I've simply seen those quotes, including the misquote, before ... several times lately actually.

And, then, my only intent was to suggest that more context is needed before any meaning is derived.

[No.23]

20. I believe it.

Nite.

:)

[Butch350]

33. Besides the validity of the quote - what do you think about it's implied meaning?

[No.23]

38. Which quote, in particular, are you alluding to?

Don't want to start off with an assumption.

Thnx.

[Butch350]

42. The one that got this snowball rollin.

[RoyGBiv]

41. Same question as No. 23

In addition, who is doing the implying? The OP, Jefferson, etc.?

[kentuck]

10. Excellent quotes!

K & R

[tom_paine]

11. K & R

[Usrename]

12. In a letter to Thomas Jefferson, John Adams wrote:

"All the perplexities, confusions, and distresses in America arise, not from defects in the Constitution or confederation, not from want of honor or virtue, as much as from downright ignorance of the nature of coin, credit, and circulation".

[dysfunctional press]

15. i remember reading this on a headstone once-

"behold you strangers passing by,
as you are now- so once was i...
as i am now, so you must be,
prepare for death and follow me."

okay- so it doesn't have anything to do with the op, or banking, or jefferson...

but i was with a group of people, we were all tripping our brains out, and trying to read it by the light of our lighters on a chilly autumn night in a very old cemetery. it was pretty fucking creepy.

[hootinholler]

21. My sister has one found in a junk shop

It reads "I told you I was sick."

I would like mine to read "He came and he went."

-Hoot

[Lucky Luciano]

26. "I told you I was sick"

:spray:

[emmadoggy]

25. OMG.

That exact same passage is on a headstone in the cemetery in my hometown. It's very old, in an older, creepier part of the cemetery near a wooded area and we went there a few times late at night as teenagers just to get ourselves freaked out. It worked.

[The Straight Story]

35. You can see that at Greenlawn in Columbus, Ohio

I have a picture of it, next time I am going through them all will scan it in and post it.

here is one I found on the net (not the same one as I took, different place)

[Liberal_in_LA]

22. Then he went out to buy more slaves

:eyes:

[OneBlueSky]

23. many past U.S. presidents have warned us about similar things . . .

and not only regarding banks . . . for instance . . .

"I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." Thomas Jefferson

"There is an evil which ought to be guarded against in the indefinite accumulation of property from the capacity of holding it in perpetuity by... corporations. The power of all corporations ought to be limited in this respect. The growing wealth acquired by them never fails to be a source of abuses. It's one of the reasons why the word "corporation" doesn't exist in the constitution - they were to be chartered only by states, so local people could keep a close eye on them." James Madison, Father of the Constitution

"In this point of the case the question is distinctly presented whether the people of the United States are to govern through representatives chosen by their unbiased suffrages or whether the money and power of a great corporation are to be secretly exerted to influence their judgment and control their decisions." Andrew Jackson

"I am more than ever convinced of the dangers to which the free and unbiased exercise of political opinion - the only sure foundation and safeguard of republican government - would be exposed by any further increase of the already overgrown influence of corporate authorities." Martin van Buren

"As a result of the war, corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed. I feel at this moment more anxiety than ever before, even in the midst of war. God grant that my suspicions may prove groundless." Abraham Lincoln

"As we view the achievements of aggregated capital, we discover the existence of trusts, combinations, and monopolies, while the citizen is struggling far in the rear or is trampled to death beneath an iron heel. Corporations, which should be the carefully restrained creatures of the law and the servants of the people, are fast becoming the people's masters." Grover Cleveland

"Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. To destroy this invisible government, to befoul the unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics is the first task of the statesmanship of the day." Theodore Roosevelt

“The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic State itself. That, in its essence, IS Fascism.” Franklin Delano Roosevelt

“In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.” Dwight David Eisenhower

[acmavm]

24. Jefferson also preached that a little periodic revolution is good for the

country.

[leftchick]

27. it is simply striking how few politicians today heed this

I can only think of a dozen. Money is the new constitution.

[snake in the grass]

28. I love to hit Freepers with this one:

"Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves the much higher compensation."

I post it first without a reference from whom it originates and they, therefore, assume it's from Marx. I let them rant a bit and call me "commie" but when they find out it's from Lincoln their heads explode.

[liberaltrucker]

40. POTUS #16

Good ole Abe.

:toast:

[snake in the grass]

43. I'll tell you what is really sad.

Republicans like to drag out Lincoln as part of their proud heritage, but if Lincoln were POTUS today, those same freeper hominids would kill him again.

[ShadesOfGrey]

29. K&R

[Vidar]

30. Jefferson, of course, is right, & unfortunately Aaron Burr shot Hamilton 20 years too

too late to save the country.

[VermeerLives]

32. I would agree with the last quote

However, I'd amend the first one to read thus: "Power should be taken from the Federal Government and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs."

[90-percent]

34. Jefferson called this one

Jefferson got it right on this one, but he made a horrible blunder back at Capitol Records in 1965 when he rejected the Mothers of Invention because he felt they had no commercial potential.*

Seriously, you generally can't go wrong when you invoke the Founding Fathers and the Constitution. When in doubt, just ask yourself; "What would Ben Franklin do in a situation like this?"

You can substitute your own favorite founding father, if you need.

-90% Jimmy


* this might be subconscious plagiarism of a Family Guy type of concept.

[TankLV]

36. FOUNDER of the "DemocratIC Party" you fucking repukes!!!

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[earth mom]

44. Where's our generation's Thomas Jefferson? Cause it sure ain't Obama.

x(