My cousin had a head injury in December, got care at a level 1 trauma center

[Critters2]

within an hour and half of his fall, spent 5 days in intensive care, and still died. This has nothing to do with Canada's health care system. People with head injuries die. In our system and theirs.

That is all.

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. many will use this to say that indeed it is CANADA's

and you are right

It has precious little to do with the Canadian system

But people will use this as an excuse

Massive head trauma will kill people

Oh and sorry for your loss

You got my sympathies

[Critters2]

2. Thank you. I just had a note from my cousin, wife of the man who died, yesterday.

He was working on a Habitat for Humanity project and fell off a ladder. We still can't believe he's gone.

And yeah, people will use this an argument against the Canadian system. Which is just wrong.

[havocmom]

12. Died from injury working on Habitat For Humanity project? Or was rewarded with new assignment?

Don't get me wrong, I think a too-early death is a sad thing, particularly for family of the deceased...

But there is enough curiosity in me to hope that death is not an ending, but just one of many changes. He was doing good work. Not a bad way to go out, or go on.

Sincere condolences to your family, but hope his essence is off somewhere, doing the next good work.

And I do thank you for sharing this event here to try and point out that sometimes, the accident just does more damage than the best care could fix. I saw your post in that other thread. It is gracious of you to try and help people understand and accept that sometimes, the answer is no.

peach & strength
hm

[Critters2]

13. I don't speculate about what happens after death, even though

everyone assumes I do. I hope for the best, but don't know any details. I'm just grateful for the remarkable good he did in his life. They traveled all over the country doing Habitat Projects. There's some odd irony in the fact that his injury actually happened in his home town, after having returned from a Habitat trip a week earlier. This is how they were spending their retirement. Good people.

[DaLittle Kitty]

15. Seemingly Innocuous Appearing Circumstances Can And Do Have Tragic Consequences!

I can picture the Bunny Hill incident... Considerable force can be generated if the skis went out from under Ms Richardson generating rotational force as she fell back something like the forces involved in a golf swing only with the end result she strikes the back of her head.

To my understanding she was not knocked unconscious. The problem is there are many times delays in an injury "declaring" itself... That is why we have a trauma system... but even still she was not being observed or questioned by professionals... so the delays mounted all the while the pressures were building in the closed compartment of her skull...

By the time she reached the hospital she apparently was not taken to a hospital w/ neuro-surgical capabilities and therefore was not in a place where the pressure could be relieved and her brain function saved. This can happen anywhere... that is why we have trauma centers so that we minimize the potential for patients w/ injuries requiring specialized care do not end up going to the WRONG hospital with the subsequent loss of precious time that can and will result in negative outcomes.

Head injuries from such circumstances should initially be directed as a matter of mandatory policy to hospitals w/ neuro-surgical capability and helmets should be worn by participants!

:nuke: To the MORONS that would say that this is the stinking socialist Canadian system... In this respect the Canadian and U.S. health care systems are identical. The exact same thing can and does happen here... It is the decision as to which hospital the patient is taken to and how much time elapses from the incident and presentation to a tertiary care center with the appropriate spectrum of medical services... Neuro-Surgery in this case!

Trauma helicopters obviously are a big time saver... Their availability saves lives and is consistent with delivering critical patients from accidents, strokes and heart attacks to the critical services that these patients require. There are specific criteria that are standard for employing air transport. Natasha's initial presentation as reported thus far in the press does not point out details that indicate at least initially after her accident the parameters being met for air transport even if it was available? Precious time was lost, but that is often the nature of these injuries... That is why there are tragic outcomes such as that of Ms Richardson.

[northernlights]

22. she initially refused care

despite staff requests that she see a doctor, because she felt fine. So treatment was delayed for several hours as a result -- 2 1/2 till she had symptoms and 2 1/2 stabilizing her at different facilities for transport once they knew the problem.

Plus, although she already showed very little brain activity going into surgery, the fact is that after they removed the clot, the temporal artery tore further and caused a massive stroke. That is what ended her life.

And it may well have happened even if she'd had surgery immediately.

It's something we'll never know.

[DaLittle Kitty]

24. TRAGIC! As In ALL Trauma Tragedys All That The Rest Of Us Can Do Is LEARN From The Mistakes Of ...

The Deceased! Then try like heck not to repeat them... at least with less frequency... This is the contribution to society made by people in the limelight that make such mistakes. In their mistake there is the spotlight of publicity shone on the cause.

[pnwmom]

21. True, it has nothing to do with the Canadian health care system.

But Richardson's death might have brought to light a flaw in Montreal's trauma system. The head of the system in that city recently spoke out on the need for helicopter service for trauma patients -- service that IS available in Canada's other provinces, but not in Quebec. And he said it is POSSIBLE that critical time was lost due to their inability to fly her to Montreal (a 15 minute flight) after her accident.

I hope this publicity helps the citizens of Quebec to get the trauma care they deserve.

[nadinbrzezinski]

26. And? Every time you have a high profile case

you use the oportunity to point out perceived and real problems

Not new... sadly it is how the game is played

[kestrel91316]

3. It sounds to me like a major contributing factor in her death may have been

her own refusal of medical attention. I'm not blaming the victim, per se. This is a very sad case. But she did refuse care, which MIGHT (or might not) have uncovered the problem when it was early enough to treat.

People, PLEASE, if you get your bell rung hard, get checked out.

[Critters2]

4. My cousin was the same way, said he felt fine.

And again, he DID get level 1 care, and still died. I suspect the same would've been true for her.

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. It is so common it is not even funny

One of my patients, died in hospital

On our first contact he refused to go to the hospital and he was ahem cranky (a symptom), but he could play the game of twenty qusetions

We called medical control... even asked about placing him under protective medical care (it has another name in the states but it exists)

HE COULD answer all questions

Cranky or not, he signed the paperwork, and we ended up transporting an hour later. He died that night

So if you ring yuor head, hope to god the family doesn't fight the medics either... which was also the case in this case

[DaLittle Kitty]

17. Excellent Point... Got To Play A Conservative Diagnostic Game And It Is Tough To Treat Patients

Who are resistant to care which in head injuries can be one of the symptoms...

[renate]

14. Natasha Richardson probably wasn't worried about paying the bill, but...

... I wonder how often concern about medical bills and lack of insurance is the reason people refuse care, especially if there's no visible blood or (at the time) any other symptoms.

[DaLittle Kitty]

16. Good Point... That is where the Friends and Relatives as Well As Medical People MUST Be INSISTENT!

People w/ "head doinks" can demonstrate poor judgment and confusion... It's is up to us to help them get to appropriate medical care they require!

I do not care if they are a movie star or... the President!!!

[roseBudd]

5. I think the story points out that how close you are to the right vs wrong type of

hospital for the type of injury or illness makes all the difference in the world.

And when we are on vacation or partaking of recreational activities, it is something to be aware of regarding our chances of surviving something catastrophic.

I know of a man who started at a regular hospital when he fell ill after eating oysters. He was ultimately transfered to the level one trauma center where he died even though they had amputated his legs because of the infection.

But did the regular hospital even know what they were dealing with initially.

Same with a woman bit by her pet cobra. Did not head to the level one trauma center, she drove to her community hospital, though the trauma center would have been no more than 10 extra minutes AND she should have called 911 for paramedics.

[Critters2]

8. Again, my cousin did go to a level 1 first. But his symptoms

took an hour to develop. That's the problem with head injuries. He really felt fine, until he began to vomit an hour later. People don't typically seek medical care when they feel okay. Tom (my cousin) didn't, neither did Natasha Richardson. These are just odd injuries that mask symptoms, often until it's too late to get life-saving care.

The lesson here isn't that the Canadian or American system is best. It's that any blow to the head, however minor, needs to be treated by professionals quickly.

[handmade34]

18. we can't let the naysayers of single-payer or

our work towards a better health care system, use Natasha Richardson's accident as example to say Canadian health care is poor. I believe that is part of your message. My 24yo daughter's partner is Canadian(dual citizenship) and he and his family do very well and his mother has many health issues.
Luckily most of my kids are in Vermont, so they are blessed with VT's great health care programs.

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. Pet cobras are fun, NOT

true story, we ended tranporting PT to the border with pet cobra in bag... as in pillow case... nuthing funnier than telling counterparts, careful there, yuo got a nice king cobra in there. Don't open bag....

Fire extinguishers came handy that day

Patient survived, cobra went to the zoo... and it was the large fish story for two months at both the police station and the Red Cross Paramedic station, and I suspect the fire house in san diego

[roseBudd]

23. my bad it was a urutu pit viper ...

and she drove herself to the hospital transferred to level one but died. And a firefighter was bit by his African rhino viper, also airlifted to level one trauma center, but also died.

The woman who died after being bit by urutu pit viper also had • One gaboon viper (venomous).

• Two monitor lizards.

• Two alligators.

• Two urutu pit vipers (venomous).

• One rhinoceros iguana.

• One shieldnose cobra (venomous).

• Two western hognose snakes.

• One rat snake.

• Two rhinoceros vipers (highly venomous).

• One timber rattlesnake (venomous).

• One albino western rattlesnake (venomous).

• Two Solomon Islands skinks.

• One monocled cobra (highly venomous).

• One tegu lizard.

[nadinbrzezinski]

25. This guy was also a crazy collector

od ahem, exotic pets... we were lucky overall

[wilt the stilt]

7. I have a friend who

suffered a major head injury and lived. the sad part is he has never been the same. I believe after a major head injury you never have a memory again.

[Critters2]

10. My mom had a glioblastoma, and the surgery to remove the tumor

left her in worse shape than she had been before--couldn't remember our names, easily frustrated with simple tasks. She once told me she wished she had not had the surgery and had just let the tumor take its course.

The brain is such a fragile thing that any trauma to it will do damage.

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. Depends on the damage

and where

Some people develop cognitive problems, (memory) for others it is speech... for a lucky few they fully recover

It is like having a stroke

When my cousin went through the windshield, I didn't expect him to live, due to the injuries... he did... he has had major problems (partly due to stupid parents, but that is a whole kettle of fish)

But when they said, he has unpty squat injuries, I turned to my mother and told her, if he lives... he's forever changed, and he has.

Some of the issues he has are affective in nature... sad story overall

[uppityperson]

19. Depends on where the damage is. I don't have to wear glasses since mine.

I had a horizontal displacement issue with my eyes. Things were slightly higher with one eye than the other, had fun letting people try my glasses and get dizzy. After my concussion I had headaches and removed my glasses to discover that I didn't need them any more. Knocked my eyes straight, hurt the part of my brain that had them uneven.

I have a memory, know many people with head injuries with memories. The brain is a fragile thing, but it also has cross pathways which help. Damage depends on where the injury was.

[uppityperson]

20. My condolences. Accidents happen, and it is hard. Sorry for your loss. eom