The Blue Dogs will ever be with us.

[cali]

If we want to maintain majorities that is.

The repuke party could well be on its way to being a regional party, and a big part of the reason is their reliance on the wingnut segment of their base, and their moronic, stubborn belief that "conservative" values are shared by the majority of Americans. The belief structure of the majority of Americans is neither conservative or liberal. It's conservative and liberal. Howard Dean understood that. Obama does as well. The repukes? They still don't get it.

Yes, Evan Bayh can be an irritant, but not as much as an irritant or detriment as say, Mitch Daniels. Same goes for other so-called blue dogs. Would you really have preferred Schaffer to Udall in CO? Really? And yes, that's often what it comes down to, a "blue dog" or a hard core wingnut repuke. Furthermore, not all blue dogs are created equal. Udall, for instance has a pretty good record on a long list of issues, and even an outstanding record on the environment. And that goes for quite a few of the gang of 15.

Narrow ideological views that insist on purging all those from the party that don't measure up, are phenomenally stupid. Sure, get Lieberman out. He's from CT. But in Indiana and other purply/reddish states, you aren't going to be able to elect a Bernie Sanders or Barbara Boxer. Nominate someone like that in Indiana and odds are strong, you'll elect a wingnut.

I believe in a big tent philosophy. That sure as hell doesn't mean that I want to see conservative or moderate dems running the show, but casting them out means relegating the party to minority status. As someone who believes there are real differences between dems and repubs, that's something I don't want to see happen.

[Rebellious Republican]

1. Should'nt that be "moranic"

as in.... "their reliance on the wingnut segment of their base, and their moronic":evilgrin:

[cali]

2. love moran, but moranic just doesn't have that same effectiveness, thus

my use of moronic.

[Rebellious Republican]

3. I hear ya Cali, just showing your post a little love with with a little sunday

morning humor. Emphasis on "little", I know, I should keep my day job. ;)

[depakid]

4. "Narrow ideological views"

That would certainly describe the so called blue dogs- and those who enable and legitimize their discredited policies.

[cali]

5. Really? So Mark Udall

is just a repuke in sheep's clothing? LOL.

Strongly Favors topic 1:
Abortion is a woman's right
(+5 points on Social scale) Expand stem cell research; promise for treating disease: Favors topic 1
Rated 100% by NARAL, indicating a pro-choice voting record: Strongly Favors topic 1
Emergency contraception for rape victims at all hospitals: Favors topic 1
Rated 0% by the NRLC, indicating a pro-choice stance: Strongly Favors topic 1
Ensure access to and funding for contraception: Favors topic 1
NO on barring transporting minors to get an abortion: Strongly Favors topic 1
NO on banning partial-birth abortions: Favors topic 1
NO on banning Family Planning funding in US aid abroad: Favors topic 1
NO on federal crime to harm fetus while committing other crimes: Favors topic 1
NO on funding for health providers who don't provide abortion info: Favors topic 1
NO on banning partial-birth abortion except to save mother’s life: Strongly Favors topic 1
NO on making it a crime to harm a fetus during another crime: Favors topic 1
NO on restricting interstate transport of minors to get abortions: Strongly Favors topic 1
YES on allowing human embryonic stem cell research: Favors topic 1
YES on expanding research to more embryonic stem cell lines: Favors topic 1
Strongly Favors topic 2:
Require hiring more women & minorities
(-5 points on Economic scale) Constitutional Amendment for equal rights by gender: Strongly Favors topic 2
Rated 92% by the NAACP, indicating a pro-affirmative-action stance: Strongly Favors topic 2
Recognize Juneteenth as historical end of slavery: Strongly Favors topic 2
Re-introduce the Equal Rights Amendment: Strongly Favors topic 2
YES on $84 million in grants for Black and Hispanic colleges: Strongly Favors topic 2
Strongly Favors topic 3:
Same-sex domestic partnership benefits
(+5 points on Social scale) Support civil union; let states decide on gay marriage laws: Strongly Favors topic 3
More funding and stricter sentencing for hate crimes: Strongly Favors topic 3
Rated 100% by the HRC, indicating a pro-gay-rights stance: Strongly Favors topic 3
Provide benefits to domestic partners of Federal employees: Strongly Favors topic 3
NO on banning gay adoptions in DC.: Favors topic 3
NO on Constitutional Amendment banning same-sex marriage: Strongly Favors topic 3
NO on Constitutionally defining marriage as one-man-one-woman: Strongly Favors topic 3
YES on prohibiting job discrimination based on sexual orientation: Strongly Favors topic 3
Strongly Opposes topic 4:
Teacher-led prayer in public schools
(+5 points on Social scale) Rated 16% by the Christian Coalition: an anti-family voting record: Strongly Opposes topic 4
Rated 83% by the AU, indicating support of church-state separation: Strongly Opposes topic 4
NO on allowing school prayer during the War on Terror: Strongly Opposes topic 4
NO on constitutional amendment prohibiting flag desecration: Opposes topic 4
NO on protecting the Pledge of Allegiance: Opposes topic 4
YES on allowing Courts to decide on "God" in Pledge of Allegiance: Opposes topic 4
Opposes topic 8:
Death Penalty
(+2 points on Social scale) Moratorium on death penalty; more DNA testing: Opposes topic 8
Require DNA testing for all federal executions: Opposes topic 8
Opposes topic 9:
Mandatory Three Strikes sentencing laws
(+2 points on Social scale) Rated 78% by CURE, indicating pro-rehabilitation crime votes: Strongly Opposes topic 9
Permanent crime database for volunteers with kids: Favors topic 9
YES on more prosecution and sentencing for juvenile crime: Favors topic 9
YES on funding for alternative sentencing instead of more prisons.: Strongly Opposes topic 9
YES on expanding services for offendors' re-entry into society: Opposes topic 9
Strongly Opposes topic 10:
Absolute right to gun ownership
(-5 points on Economic scale) Hunting & angling tradition generates income and jobs: Favors topic 10
Rated F by the NRA, indicating a pro-gun control voting record: Strongly Opposes topic 10
NO on decreasing gun waiting period from 3 days to 1: Strongly Opposes topic 10
NO on prohibiting suing gunmakers & sellers for gun misuse: Strongly Opposes topic 10
NO on prohibiting product misuse lawsuits on gun manufacturers: Strongly Opposes topic 10
Strongly Favors topic 5:
More federal funding for health coverage
(-5 points on Economic scale) Make Congress’ healthcare options available to all: Favors topic 5
Rated 75% by APHA, indicating a pro-public health record: Strongly Favors topic 5
YES on giving mental health full equity with physical health: Favors topic 5
YES on Veto override: Extend SCHIP to cover 6M more kids: Strongly Favors topic 5
NO on establishing tax-exempt Medical Savings Accounts: Favors topic 5
NO on subsidizing private insurance for Medicare Rx drug coverage: Favors topic 5
NO on allowing reimportation of prescription drugs: Opposes topic 5
NO on capping damages & setting time limits in medical lawsuits: Favors topic 5
NO on limited prescription drug benefit for Medicare recipients: Favors topic 5
NO on denying non-emergency treatment for lack of Medicare co-pay: Strongly Favors topic 5
YES on requiring negotiated Rx prices for Medicare part D: Favors topic 5
YES on adding 2 to 4 million children to SCHIP eligibility: Favors topic 5
Opposes topic 6:
Privatize Social Security
(-3 points on Economic scale) Lock box measure for Social Security & Medicare surpluses: Opposes topic 6
Rated 78% by the ARA, indicating a pro-senior voting record: Strongly Opposes topic 6
YES on strengthening the Social Security Lockbox: Opposes topic 6
NO on reducing tax payments on Social Security benefits: Opposes topic 6
YES on raising 401(k) limits & making pension plans more portable: Favors topic 6
Strongly Opposes topic 7:
Parents choose schools via vouchers
(-5 points on Economic scale) Good public education is key to children’s economic future: Opposes topic 7
Reduce class size to 18 children in grades 1 to 3: Strongly Opposes topic 7
Rated 80% by the NEA, indicating pro-public education votes: Strongly Opposes topic 7
Strongly Favors topic 18:
Replace coal & oil with alternatives
(-5 points on Economic scale) We need comprehensive plan, not just oil & gas development: Favors topic 18
We must pass legislation to limit carbon emissions: Strongly Favors topic 18
Expand funding for work towards mitigating climate change: Favors topic 18
Immediate response to global climate change: Strongly Favors topic 18
Being green is MAKING green: Favors topic 18
Preserve Alaska's ANWR instead of drilling it: Favors topic 18
Rated 100% by the LCV, indicating pro-environment votes: Strongly Favors topic 18
Establish greenhouse gas tradeable allowances: Strongly Favors topic 18
Rated 100% by the CAF, indicating support for energy independence: Favors topic 18
Set goal of 25% renewable energy by 2025: Strongly Favors topic 18
YES on tax incentives for renewable energy: Strongly Favors topic 18
YES on starting implementation of Kyoto Protocol: Strongly Favors topic 18
YES on raising CAFE standards; incentives for alternative fuels: Strongly Favors topic 18
YES on prohibiting oil drilling & development in ANWR: Strongly Favors topic 18
NO on authorizing construction of new oil refineries: Strongly Favors topic 18
NO on scheduling permitting for new oil refinieries: Strongly Favors topic 18
YES on keeping moratorium on drilling for oil offshore: Strongly Favors topic 18
YES on removing oil & gas exploration subsidies: Strongly Favors topic 18
YES on investing in homegrown biofuel: Strongly Favors topic 18
YES on criminalizing oil cartels like OPEC: Favors topic 18
YES on tax incentives for energy production and conservation: Strongly Favors topic 18
Opposes topic 19:
Drug use is immoral: enforce laws against it
(+2 points on Social scale) Legalize medical marijuana: Strongly Opposes topic 19
Rated +20 by NORML, indicating a pro-drug-reform stance: Strongly Opposes topic 19
NO on prohibiting needle exchange & medical marijuana in DC: Strongly Opposes topic 19
YES on military border patrols to battle drugs & terrorism: Strongly Favors topic 19
Opposes topic 20:
Allow churches to provide welfare services
(-3 points on Economic scale) YES on responsible fatherhood via faith-based organizations: Favors topic 20
NO on treating religious organizations equally for tax breaks: Strongly Opposes topic 20
Favors topic 11:
Make taxes more progressive
(-3 points on Economic scale) Bush tax cuts were reckless and unfair: Strongly Favors topic 11
Rated 33% by NTU, indicating a "Big Spender" on tax votes: Strongly Favors topic 11
Rated 100% by the CTJ, indicating support of progressive taxation: Strongly Favors topic 11
YES on eliminating the "marriage penalty": Opposes topic 11
NO on $46 billion in tax cuts for small business: Favors topic 11
NO on Tax cut package of $958 B over 10 years: Favors topic 11
YES on reducing Marriage Tax by $399B over 10 years: Opposes topic 11
NO on eliminating the Estate Tax ("death tax"): Favors topic 11
NO on making the Bush tax cuts permanent: Strongly Favors topic 11
NO on retaining reduced taxes on capital gains & dividends: Strongly Favors topic 11
YES on paying for AMT relief by closing offshore business loopholes: Strongly Favors topic 11
YES on extending AMT exemptions to avoid hitting middle-income: Opposes topic 11
Favors topic 12:
Illegal immigrants earn citizenship
(+2 points on Social scale) Rated 33% by USBC, indicating a mixed record on open borders: Neutral on topic 12
YES on extending Immigrant Residency rules: Favors topic 12
NO on reporting illegal aliens who receive hospital treatment: Strongly Favors topic 12
YES on preventing tipping off Mexicans about Minuteman Project: Strongly Opposes topic 12
NO on building a fence along the Mexican border: Strongly Favors topic 12
Favors topic 13:
Support & expand free trade
(+2 points on Economic scale) Rated 39% by CATO, indicating a mixed record on trade issues: Neutral on topic 13
NO on Permanent Normal Trade Relations with China: Strongly Opposes topic 13
NO on withdrawing from the WTO: Strongly Favors topic 13
YES on implementing US-Singapore free trade agreement: Strongly Favors topic 13
YES on implementing free trade agreement with Chile: Strongly Favors topic 13
YES on implementing US-Australia Free Trade Agreement: Favors topic 13
YES on end offshore tax havens and promote small business: Opposes topic 13
NO on implementing CAFTA, Central America Free Trade: Strongly Opposes topic 13
YES on assisting workers who lose jobs due to globalization: Opposes topic 13
YES on promoting free trade with Peru: Favors topic 13
Opposes topic 15:
Expand the armed forces
(+2 points on Social scale) No missile defense until proven technically & politically: Strongly Opposes topic 15
Rated 100% by SANE, indicating a pro-peace voting record: Strongly Opposes topic 15
Extend reserve retirement pay parity back to 9/11: Favors topic 15
Improve mental health care benefits for returning veterans: Favors topic 15
YES on $266 billion Defense Appropriations bill: Favors topic 15
NO on deploying SDI: Opposes topic 15
YES on emergency $78B for war in Iraq & Afghanistan: Strongly Favors topic 15
YES on continuing military recruitment on college campuses: Favors topic 15
YES on restricting no-bid defense contracts: Strongly Opposes topic 15
Favors topic 16:
Stricter limits on political campaign funds
(-3 points on Economic scale) YES on banning soft money and issue ads: Favors topic 16
NO on banning soft money donations to national political parties: Opposes topic 16
YES on campaign finance reform banning soft-money contributions: Favors topic 16
NO on restricting independent grassroots political committees: Favors topic 16
YES on requiring lobbyist disclosure of bundled donations: Strongly Favors topic 16
Favors topic 14:
The Patriot Act harms civil liberties
(+2 points on Social scale) Restore habeas corpus for detainees in the War on Terror: Favors topic 14
YES on Veto override: Congressional oversight of CIA interrogations: Strongly Favors topic 14
YES on requiring FISA warrants for wiretaps in US, but not abroad: Strongly Favors topic 14
NO on making the PATRIOT Act permanent: Strongly Favors topic 14
YES on continuing intelligence gathering without civil oversight: Strongly Opposes topic 14
NO on allowing electronic surveillance without a warrant: Strongly Favors topic 14
NO on removing need for FISA warrant for wiretapping abroad: Strongly Favors topic 14
YES on retroactive immunity for telecoms' warrantless surveillance: Opposes topic 14
Strongly Favors topic 17:
US out of Iraq
(+5 points on Social scale) Surge has helped, but it’s time to leave Iraq: Favors topic 17
Our soldiers performed magnificently; now bring them home: Strongly Favors topic 17
Multi-year commitment to Africa for food & medicine: Strongly Favors topic 17
NO on authorizing military force in Iraq: Strongly Favors topic 17
NO on declaring Iraq part of War on Terror with no exit date: Strongly Favors topic 17
NO on redeploying US troops out of Iraq starting in 90 days: Strongly Opposes topic 17
YES on investigating Bush impeachment for lying about Iraq: Favors topic 17

[depakid]

6. I didn't mention Udall- you pulled that strawman out

And Howard Dean NEVER meant to imply that we need so called "conservative" policies to win in the various states- his idea was that Southerners need health care, well paying jobs and good educational opportunities for their kids, etc..

None of which the "Blue dogs" are interested in providing.

[cali]

7. uh, Udall is a member of Bayh's new "Blue Dog gang of 15" and

you mentioned ALL blue dogs. Sorry, that makes my comment quite germane and not remotely a strawman.

Furthermore, Howard absolutely did believe in working with people with different philosophies. Including blue dogs. Period. He was my gov for 11 years. I've met and spoken with him on several occasions. I know damned well he doesn't believe in kicking the blue dogs out of the party. He's not an idiot.

[depakid]

8. I listened to what he said- and I understand what DFA was trying to do

apparently you'd rather engage in apologias for those who promote discredited right wing policies. Frankly, I think after all this time- and countless sell outs of the public interest you might have learned that it's not in anyone's interest to enable these sorts of folks.

No, what you with turncoats is challenge them in primaries- or in the worst cases, get them out of office by any means possible.

[cali]

9. ooh, line me against a wall and shoot me. I'm a traitor. A turncoat

And all because I'd rather deal with reality, facts and nuance, than mindless dogma.

Thank you for illustrating why dogmatists are a detriment.

And sorry, Dean would absolutely agree with me over you, and Udall did join up with Bayh. Deal with it.

[depakid]

10. No you're being an apologist for dysfunctional policies

and a continuation of the same.

[cali]

11. no. I'm dealing with reality not dogma and stock phrases

And grab a clue, I'm not defending or praising any policies here. I'm discussing why purging the party of people that don't align ideolgically with me, is a stupid idea.

[depakid]

12. This is going nowhere

You keep on giving props to the far right enablers... others of us, like Accountability Now: http://accountabilitynowpac.com/ will ensure that there's a political price to pay for legitimizing and voting with Republicans.

[cali]

13. you're right. you're unwilling or incapable of addressing any of my points

and you insist on lying. no wonder it's not going anywhere. introducing blatant lies will do that.

[depakid]

15. Just not interested in continuing to enable the far right

whose policies got us into this mess (on many levels). Doesn't matter what letter is behind the name.

[KharmaTrain]

14. Now It's Better Democrats Vs. More Democrats

In many ways we're reaching the saturation point. Democrats have captured many of the "purple" areas and have expanded into many places they hadn't been in decades. In some cases, alliances and compromises were made to find a "conservative" Democrat to go up against a moonbat rushpublican...the leadership being happy to have the votes with him/her 50 or 75% of the time rather than 0.

To regain the levers of power, the Democratic party has needed to become a big tent and one that always has and will be a delicate balance. To maintain that power, we need to avoid getting into the trap the GOOP now finds itself in of becoming more ideological than practical. While the GOOP could win elections, they couldn't govern...and they still haven't figured that out. For Democrats to be successful and remain so, the party must show it can "get the trains to run on time" but also to include many voices and interests into the debates.

The answer to the Blue Dog problem is the same as it was to replacing incompetant rushpublicans. It's recruting and supporting more progressive and liberal candidates...put some money into their campaigns so they can get the exposure to make a good run in the primaries. You're never gonna get a "pure blue" Democrat in many "purple" areas but there can be a way to find candidates that are able to balance their local needs vs. that of the national welfare.

[OHdem10]

16. I understand what you are saying and can agree somewhat. However,

I do question, how can we talk change when we know we are going to
be cut off at the knees by our own party.

Here is my gripe. The GOP stands up and preaches their beliefs
to their constituents. The persuade even some Democrats to vote
with and for them.

If you go into the Blue Dog territory, the consituents do not even
know if the Blue Dog is a Democrat or Republican. This is the
biggest comment about , for instance, Bayh. "the people of Indiana
do not know if he is a Republican or Democrat". How can we make
change when members do not even admit they are Democrats/ When do
they spread our message?

No I am not ready to try to drive them from the party. I just wish
they had some core values. The Republicans have convinced a lot of
Americans that they are the way the truth the light. The difference
is disappointing