Philosophic Interlude - What do you consider "enough"

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

If I were a columnist, these are the kinds of questions I would like to ask the "have mores" or as Bush called them, his base.

How many houses can you live in? How large do they need to be? How many cars can you drive? Private plane? How much food can you eat? How many dresses or suits can you wear? How much jewelry is sufficient? How many shoes are required? How many personal attendants must care for your needs? What size yacht is up to snuff? How much can you spend in a restaurant before you consider it wretched excess? How much do you spend on hair dressers? Is plastic surgery a necessity or a luxury? What is the most you would spend on a bottle of wine? What percentage of income should you pay in taxes? What's the most you would pay for a shower curtain? What personal idiosyncrasy do you spend more than you should on? Despite a luxurious lifestyle, do you hide money from the taxman? Do you pay your personal bills promptly? Do you ever have one moment of financial concern? What is your political affiliation? Why? Do you bother having health insurance or do you just self-insure? Have you ever lived on just a paycheck?

And, for the rest of us, not the "have mores", what do you aspire to? How would you answer those questions for yourself?

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. Enough to keep a roof over my head, and myself fed

that is what is enough

I'd like to add to that good health care...

But my enough will vary from some of these folks who also enjoy the power that comes with being one of the mores

I have had to philosophically deal with this in fiction

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

4. I think most of us would say that and yet visualize the roof very differently

How did you deal with this in your fiction? I think downward movement is much more interesting than upward. And many find downward movement strangely liberating as they are freed from a lot of senseless material entanglements.

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. Well one of my characters was born poor,

she is now the head of state... essentially, and in charge of a very powerful corporation that makes our corps look like games and small... this is interstellar

Her husband was born very rich, and due to tragedies and other things, lived check to check for years, most of his adult life... so he's seen that side of life... and envies those who don't have to deal with that power crap, but he's not interested in it, even if it;s forced on him.

He ends up as king...

She actually took to the power better, but for her the critical point was that her children would never be hungry and trying to spread the wealth as it where,

Realize that the kids will probably have a very different way of dealing with this, since none of them will know poverty or hunger, but oh boy will know power

We are creatures of our existence... and our life... and our families.

But waking on the feet of essentially bill gates (to the nth degree) in fiction let me know some of this at the intellectual level

[willing dwarf]

2. I don't think "enough" has a place in the American economic lexicon

This economy is built on need and unfulfillment. Fulfillment suggests and end to need, which is boring and not new, so it creates its own next need.

The hole is the bucket was surely an invention of Madison Avenue. and we all have carried water for the capitalist economy all these years, never letting ourselves imagine that someday, perhaps, we'd understand that enough might be as good as a feast, that enough could be enough.

For the good of the world's resources, I hope we've started to learn that lesson!!

[ddeclue]

3. Enough...

Just being totally decadent and irresponsible for a moment:

A house in Florida.

A house in Atlanta.

A house in Nashville.

A house in St. Louis.

A house in Northern NJ.

A house in Los Angeles.

6 houses maybe a seventh with a second one in FL.

At least one decent car in every house location.

A twin engine pressurized prop plane like a Baron or a turo pressurized like a Duke so that I can fly around between them. (I'm a private pilot so I do love the winged toys a lot..)

A 35-45 foot ocean going sailboat - no jetskis or speed boats - I hate'em.

I like electronic toys...

No need for fancy clothes or servants other than a lawn service to maintain the houses.

I'm not big on spending hundreds in restaurants either - I'm happy at cheap places to eat as long as they have good atmosphere.

Enough money in the bank to keep all of this going till I'm dead...

That would be enough..

:P

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

8. If I were decadent and irresponsible

I would have a house somewhere in Vermont in some nifty village setting (love the politics of Vermont!)

and

a condo/flat in London where I would go to the theater all the time

and maybe a place in Georgetown (I really like the DC area)

Not big on cars, yachts, clothes, shoes, jewelry, etc. Wouldn't spend much even if I had it.

Do love food and would blow money on restaurants and home cooking gizmos, gadgets, supplies, etc.

[undergroundpanther]

6. Enough to me is...

Affording healthy and nutritious foods to eat,and the means to store and prepare them.

Health care that is good quality with doctors I know and trust.

A home in a place that has plenty of things to do but isn't either isolated or crime ridden.A home with access to the means to grow my own food,,a home that is sound, comfortable to live in ,meets safety codes. Enough is that should it need repairs I can afford to repair it and maintain it.and I could afford to pay for the chores I can't do(like climbing ladders or doing lots of bending/shoveling) due to my back issues.

Enough is having the means to pay my bills and stay out of debt.

A good public transportation system to get around anywhere reliably.

Enough is access to education should I decide to acquire more.

A few sets of clothes I feel comfortable in,a winter coat etc.and the means to take care of them,and to replace them when they are worn out.

A little fund to set aside for art supplies and other creative things I do to relieve stress and heal.

Enough means having enough money to set some aside and save it up for special things.

Enough is also having enough money to help others out too.

[ddeclue]

12. Thank you Miss America...

:eyes:

Come on and be honest.. everybody has some level of greed and Jonesin' in them to have SOMETHING...


Doug D.

[undergroundpanther]

15. Well

I once had money and it made my life miserable.I found out making money costs alot in emotional stress, stress in relationships and it can be traumatic,in how it changes everything, having was that way for me..

If I I had more than enough and I HAD to use it on myself, think it would be to finish my tattoo & body mod .
or go to Egypt and visit Sekhmet's temples.

If I could use the excess for anything
First I'd give a huge donation to on our own,
hearts and ears,
and spin.

Or I could buy some land and create a sustainable community that will be an "asshole free zone"..
Other than that, maybe make a feline sanctuary.

Other than those 4 things I really can't think of anything else I really would want.

And I am not a "miss".

[vadawg]

18. an example i think it would be too much for you to travel to aegypt

or to do what you call a body mod, we all have different ideas of what enough and too much is.

[ConcernedCanuk]

34. LOL - - an "asshole free zone".. - LOL

.
.
.

oh yeah

I think they call that "heaven"?

still LOL

an "asshole free zone"..

good one!

:thumbsup:

[Toucano]

20. I am only jonesin for everyone to have enough.

I don't actually care if some have more than enough as long as everyone has enough.

[vadawg]

21. yes my friend but define what is enough, as i stated your idea would be different

from what i would term enough, or the average dude in the jungles of central america, or some guy walking the deserts of northern china. How do we define what is enough, i think the guy who wants to finish tatoos and body work dosent need it and that it would be a waste of resources, he believes he does and should get it. I dont know how we reconcile the differences.

[Toucano]

22. You are overthinking it.

Everyone knows what enough is. Some people have elaborate tastes, but that's not the subject.

A safe, secure house is enough.

As far as tattoos, everyone is entitled to one tattoo no bigger than his or her fist. Any more is too much. :)

Whenever in doubt, less is best.

[vadawg]

23. lol what if you have huge fists, or are we to have a standard fist size

:)

[Toucano]

24. That's the beauty of it.

Large fists GENERALLY accompany large bodies, hence more room for paint. Smaller bodies, smaller fists.

Everything will work out fine and in wonderful proportion...most of the time.

;)

[willing dwarf]

25. Well I know I have enough

I live in the same community I grew up in. I have a family that loves me and who can count on me to help them as I count on them to help me. I've got enough land to grow food for the family and I've got a big vegetable garden started. I have a well with clean water to drink. I have a great comfortable bed and a loving husband who warms it every night. I've got a laundry line to wash hang the sheets on, and a wash machine.

I've got a terrific basic sewing machine,and lots of fabric bought at yard sales, second hand stores and fabric stores which I use to sew curtains, skirts, dresses, coats, overalls and jeans. I've got a barn with 6 chickens and two goats. I've got a wood stove with a fire burning and a tank of propane as a back up. I have a pantry filled with fruits and sauces which I canned last summer.

I've got a job that is worthwhile work, raising money to help people in need get food clothing and shelter. My job lets me work from home and is challenging and creative. My husband has a job that pays alright, gives great benefits and is less work than carpentry he used to do.

I've got kids who are safe and happy in their schools. I've got a more than I ever imagined I would have and I'm really happy about it. God bless it all. It's none to fancy, and we've worked very hard for everything we have. My husband arrived in this country (from Ireland) with nothing. Together we have had to work hard for every bit of the life we now have. I am very very grateful for it. I hope others feel likewise about what they have.

So not only do I feel like I have enough, I know too that now I've said enough!

[Naturyl]

33. Don't be so sure.

Some people reject materialism entirely.

Beyond a computer and an internet connection, I don't desire anything but the necessities.

[ohheckyeah]

7. Enough would be

all my debts paid, including the house loan. I doubt I would live much differently because I'm a jeans kind of person.

[No.23]

9. Enough is my more than enough.

Enough is when
what I have
is acceptable to me.

Whereas not enough
and more than enough...
aren't.

Most of the time
I am in the state of
enough.

Until someone comes along
and shows me that
I have more than enough
instead.

That's when my enough becomes
more than enough,
and I shed some commodity
to be back at
enough again.

Until the next time, of course,
that my enough becomes
more than enough again.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

10. So you're basically shedding as opposed to acquiring.

I love the way you've defined the parameters as not enough, enough and more than enough.

I often see the life arc of acquisition just like that.

When you're young, you often don't have enough and rely on the hand me downs of family, friends, etc. Then you enter the "acquisitive" stage and buy house, furniture, cars, tchotchas, etc. until one day you are drowning in useless possessions that you try mostly unsuccessfully to give away or "store" in your hellhole of a basement or attic. If lucky, you'll be able to work your way back to "enough".

[No.23]

13. Exactly.

But it's not a matter of "working my way back to enough", though.

It's more a matter of unlayering all the layers of who I thought I was.

To discover that...

who I am is not who I thought I was.

And if stuff accompanied who I thought I was, then they get dropped too.

As a natural consequence of unlayering who I thought I was.

Make sense?

Stuff is an identity solidifier, I've discovered.

Have no further need for a certain identity?

Chances are, the stuff that was accumulated to support it... will no longer be needed too.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

14. Perfect sense. Really. nt

[undergroundpanther]

17. Exactly!!

Good way of putting it.When I was in a relationship we had lots of money,a house,a car,4 cats.But we were both miserable.
I couldn't handle the stress nor could my ex.
The act of being someone else is a horrid feeling .Having all these things,I really had no use for them, I gave them away once I was able to reemerge true to myself again.

[No.23]

26. Consider this.

"The act of being someone else is a horrid feeling"

A little, blunt color commentary, if you don't mind.

Relationships are, sometimes, contracts between two people.

The contract of "I'll be someone whom you need me to be", and "you'll be someone whom I need you to be."

Although this isn't spelled out explicitly between the two contractual participants, their actions reveal this intent of forming a relationship.

A relationship between two people who are trying to be who the other person needs them to be.

Which is, really, not a relationship between two people.

But a relationship between two images that are trying to comport to each other's needs.

Feel familiar?

[Birthmark]

11. "Enough" is what I have had. eom

[vadawg]

16. Problem is what you would deem enough may be seen as excess by others

My definition of enough would get me a divorce rather quickly, we all have an idea of what should be enough, but i think we run into problems when we try to tell others whats enough.

[pipi_k]

28. On having enough being excess to others...

Whenever I see someone who has a bigger home, better furniture, etc., than I do and feel envious, I always stop myself and think this...

My home isn't the biggest in the world...in fact, it's a converted hunting shack that's been added to over the past ten years. It's warm, it's comfortable, I have gorgeous woods and scenery around me, peace and quiet, and it's MINE.

Then I think of the millions upon millions of people who would think my teeny little house is a palace. How many of them would give their right arms to live in my teeny little house? Lots, I'd bet.

so yeah, you have a good point there...

What one person judges as modest (or "enough") could be a virtual Nirvana for someone else...

even a teeny little house in the woods.

:)

[Toucano]

19. The have mores never ask this question

When I have asked them, they look at me like I am a dog who just learned to speak.

[pipi_k]

27. Some people can never HAVE enough

and I think the problem is that these people are trying desperately to fill some "hole" in themselves.

If the hole is big enough, it can never be filled. Like a bottomless pit. People are looking for various things via the things they possess...love, status, etc.

I know this because I used to be a compulsive shopper. I got myself into financial difficulty years ago. I've since come to realize the whats and whys and am more responsible, but every so often the emotional pain is so great that I find myself feeling the compulsion to spend again. Because 20 pairs of shoes isn't enough, and it's always the NEXT pair that will end the pain and make my life perfect...

Such are my thoughts until I realize that it's all a bunch of bullshit.

Having stuff doesn't make a person happier, and in fact, it often causes guilt, which leads to buying more, and feeling guilty, and there is the cycle that never ends.

Anyway, that's my story. I still buy stuff that I don't really NEED.

Like the yarn stash that's all over my house. I'm a knitter/crocheter, and I buy yarn, not because I need it, but because I might need it someday. The funny part about this is that my house is not huge. In that respect, my house is "enough". But I can never have enough yarn.


We all have our priorities, I guess...

:7

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

29. I used to think that I could never have enough books

I dreamed of having a house with a library with bookcases filled to the ceiling and one of those nifty library ladders. Comfy leather chairs, a fire in the fireplace, raining outside, one cat in window, one sitting on feet, and Bob's your uncle!

But, now I try to give away my books. There are not that many that I read and reread or consider indespensible, so I don't really need the big room with the full bookcases. I thought I might put a box of books outside on the curb and write "help yourself on it".

[pipi_k]

30. Yep, me too

In fact, I've got books scattered all over the house now.

I give them away and vow never to buy another (choosing to rent them from the library instead) but it never works out that way because there's this core group of books that I read and re-read and re-re-read over and over until they fall apart, then go out and buy a new copy to keep reading over again. Then I pick a few up from the Goodwill store for like a quarter each (plus one free each month) and there we go...

Have you ever heard of "Bookcrossings"?

I joined a few years ago. You create an online account and you go around leaving a book or two in various locations for people to find and you can keep track of where your books have traveled to. I got a neat rubber stamp and everything to use inside the book covers telling the finders what it's all about.

sharing the gift of literacy is fun!

haven't dropped any books off in a while though. I get a little paranoid about leaving stuff for fear someone will think I'm leaving poison powder or a b*mb or something. I've left books in restaurants, public restrooms, and, yes, store shopping carts.

Try it...you might like it

:)

[pipi_k]

31. PS....music

How much music is too much?

That is the question Mr P asks me, as I buy yet another CD or download yet another MP3 to put on my iPod or other device.


I tell him, with all honesty, that one can NEVER have "too much music"


:7

[undergroundpanther]

32. music is one of those

things,that soothe the soul when the world turns savage.Hell even my cats love to hear music.They'll come into the room when I put something on,sit in the acoustic sweet spot and swivel their ears around catching the sounds,and they have their favorite tunes too.
Same goes for the creativity in art, concerning artists(at least this one)I am driven from within to create, to make beauty when the world seems ugly to me. If I could not at least draw my heart out I would lose my mind.My pencil is my witness.It speaks the contours of my thoughts.Same with writing..