Taxpayer Funded Stadiums and Arenas

[OmahaBlueDog]

Poll question: Taxpayer Funded Stadiums and Arenas

I'm just wondering where we stand on this, since two taxpayer funded ballparks may be built in Omaha.

[Wapsie B]

1. Can you say socialism boys and girls?

Sure you can.

[Bjorn Against]

15. Actually this is not socialism, it is crony capitalism.

Socialism would be building stadiums which were owned by the public, when we build stadiums for sports teams those stadiums are being built for private profit. This is not socialism, this is crony capitalism.

[Redbear]

2. It depends on how and if the taxpayers are paid back

If the taxpayers get a portion of revenues until the investment is paid back, I'm all for it. If it is basically corporate welfare, no way.

[Dr.Phool]

20. The taxpayers are never paid back.

Take Cleveland as an example. They decided that the stadiums didn't have to pay property taxes, thus denying the schools money.

Then they negotiated a lease, whereby they could deduct maintenance costs. The way the whole thing worked out,was that the city was actually paying them to use the place!

No rent. No taxes. And payback for improvements and upkeep.

on edit: Oh, and I forgot that they could deduct sales taxes on tickets as a part of their operating costs. Some deal.

[Cynical Guy]

3. How is it that my concert tickets are still $100 in the building my taxes help pay for?

Hmm.

[donheld]

5. Because they make us pay for it but don't let us own it

You'd think if we paid for something we'd own it right? Well that's not the way I understand it works.

[TahitiNut]

4. No! (With one exception. Lambeau Field.)

:shrug:

[OmahaBlueDog]

6. True - the city owns the team

[ddeclue]

7. I grudgingly voted No because there was no Hell No available...

this is welfare for billionaires and reverse Robin Hood crap. If they want to take their sports team and leave town, I'll happily drive them to the airport and wave goodbye!

:nuke:

[OmahaBlueDog]

8. Don't hold back. Tell us what you really think.

Here's what I don't get; if I'm talking to my Republican friends, and I ask this, they say government has no place building stadiums. I ask here, and it's an overwhelming "no". Somebody explain to me how these things get built if this concept is so unpopular?

[Cynical Guy]

9. Because people at our level don't make these kinds of decisions.

The ones who do are wined and dined, promised ceremonies, tickets, and the opportunity to be around the real power brokers. Even those who make the final decision don't have a clue what rich is. They think they're doing well because they're making a quarter million, or are going to see a couple of million in kickbacks.

They have no idea.

Most Republicans are like most Democrats, they're trying to make ends meet and have bigger problems in their lives than fighting the fight. Stupid wedge issues interfere with the ability for the VAST majority of the people to realize who is really stepping on them.

[wellst0nev0ter]

27. That's So True

I remember when they rat bastards at the state capitol decided to pass a bill forcing the people in Hennepin County to pay for the Minnesota Twins baseball stadium. Referendums after local referendums have came and went with the people overwhelmingly saying "NO!" to privatized socialism, and a statewide poll had people overwhelmingly against using public money for stadiums, but again the rat bastards decided that what the people of Hennepin County (Minneapolis) doesn't matter, that they REALLY wanted the Twins to stay in the state without them having to pay for them, so they passed the bill having ONLY the people of Hennepin County to pay an extra sales tax. I read their op-eds and commentaries, they said it was a win-win for them because they get to keep the Twins and not have to pay for them.

Rat bastards.

[rufus dog]

10. Owners are good at playing on people who have inferiority complexes about their city

So the Phoenix area cranks out a Basketball, Hockey, Baseball and Football Stadiums in 15 to 20 years. They have to be big league. LA, San Francisco, and NYC tells the owners to stuff it. There was studies done that show how poor the investment in stadiums are for the local economy. They create the construction jobs long term but only minimum wage seasonal jobs long term. Compare that to giving tax advantages to high tech or emerging energy companies and it is now contest. A Team will create a couple hundred decent jobs where as a Company may create 25,000 decent jobs.

That being said, certain downtown stadiums do revitalize areas and create a positive impact.

What is being proposed in Omaha? A new stadium to replace Rosenblatt? So that may bring in a bit more paying customers for the CWS for one week.

[OmahaBlueDog]

13. Oh it's not proposed, it's a done deal

(I'm going to plagarize myself from a post I made elsewhere)

Rosenblatt Stadium, the venerable home of the CWS, has been declared too elderly to possibly continue as a working baseball stadium.

So the City signed a new contract with the NCAA, and we get the CWS for 20 more years. In exchange, we're building a brand new, 25,000 seat stadium by the Qwest Center Omaha in the soon-to-be-developed NoDo (North of Downtown) area of Omaha. Great, right?

Not so fast. The Omaha Royals (PCL AAA affiliate) wants a new stadium, but they want a 6,000 seat stadium, with family-friendly ammenities, like picnic areas. They just signed a deal with a suburb of Omaha, called La Vista, to build yet another new stadium.

So the City is left with a stadium that is empty for all but two weeks of the year? What to do? I know -- get another minor league team.

http://www.americanassociationbaseball.com /

Omaha will bring indy league ball (about the equivalernt of "A" ball) to the downtown stadium.

http://www.omahastadium.com/press-releases/officials-break-ground-on-omaha-baseball-stadium.html

http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_page=2798&u_sid=10583433

[ddeclue]

26. Wildly delusional members of your local chamber of commerce threaten and cajole

members of your local city council and county commission:

Help us shove this down the voters throats or we'll screw you at election time

PLUS

"Field of dreams" sales routine: Build it and they will come and you will be remembered gloriously by your constituents 20 years from now as the guy who brought/kept the sports team to/in town.

Meanwhile your dunderheaded councilman (regardless of party) buys into the crapola sold by the Chamber people and ignores all the outcry from the public because he wants his name on one of these:



He thinks that's the only way he'll ever be remembered - it's ego... Nobody ever donates to a university to build new sidewalks or buy toilet paper and light bulbs because there's no memorial toilet paper plaque erected.

We just went through this here in Orlando and people, even otberwise good Democrats, make ridiculous rationalizations to build new stadiums - my favorite is "it's green" -i.e. it's LEED certified... Oh great so it will save 20% per square foot on energy costs but the building is 225% larger so it's gonna double energy usage and cost - what's so green about that?

There's also the shell game rationalization: If we build the Orlando Magic a basketball arena for 500 MILLION dollars then Rich Devos will build (up to) 5 small neighborhood gyms for the kids at 5 million each.. Firstly councilwoman ZERO is one of those numbers up to 5 as in ZERO, ONE, TWO, THREE...doh... Next where's the budget to run and maintain these gyms if we blow it all on the billionaire and his basketball team. Finally why don't we just cut out the middleman and just save 475 million dollars and let the Magic play in one of the 5 gyms WE built and paid for and operate ourselves?

There's the field of dreams rationalization - build a venue and a sports team will magically appear to fill it. NOT..

There's the we're not getting the good shows because our arena is 18 years old rationalization - NO council woman we're not getting the shows because we're located too close to a city 10 times our size and the show promoters aren't gonna pay to move the show when they know that Orlandoans will continue to get into their cars and drive to Tampa to catch the show an hour and a half away. Why go through all the extra cost and expense of tearing down and setting up again only 90 miles away?

There's a million stupid reasons for these electeds to give into business community pressure and ignore their voters...whatchagonna do?

Doug D.
Orlando, FL

[lonestarnot]

11. P U and that's all I have to say.

[bridgit]

12. Maloof brothers? Is that you?

[OmahaBlueDog]

14. I'm sorry. I don't get it.

[bridgit]

21. The Maloof's own the Sacramento Kings here where I live...

They have been very big on deferring their costs for any new stadium in that Arco Arena is 'vintage' to say the least, and any potential risks; through local tax increases (Sacramento is already taxed nearly as much as to live in California) and bond measures up to and including taking the Kings elsewhere if they don't get their way which many here in town are saying fine...then go

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/23/style/a-night-out-with-the-maloof-brothers-boys-and-their-toys.html?sec=travel

[OmahaBlueDog]

22. The fact that a former Cal and NBA guard is now your mayor might help their cause

Thank you very much for the explanation. It makes perfect sense.

[bridgit]

23. Ha! It brought Oprah into town she's helping Kevin to look good with the homeless here...

I suppose anything is possible now ;)

[OmahaBlueDog]

24. I had one of my Poli Sci classes with KJ

....many, many years ago...when Ohlone natives and dinosaurs still roamed the Bay Area.

[bridgit]

25. haha, good one!

:headbang:

[Historic NY]

16. In the NY are you better have cash in the bank to go to a game or concert..

baseball tickets in Ny are out of sight even the cheap seats aren't cheap.

[OmahaBlueDog]

18. I thought the Yanks were building their stadium?

No??

[wellst0nev0ter]

29. Speaking Of Yankee Stadium . . .

How did that famous facility help with the local economy of the South Bronx area? I mean, these turd miners justify stealing taxpayers money by saying it would go back to the community several folds, so I suspect that the South Bronx would be paved with gold by now, right?

Right?

[rufus dog]

30. Actually you are correct, I stand corrected

New York built a new stadium for they Yankees and another for the Mets, I believe a Basketball Arena is going into Brooklyn for the Nets and the Football stadium got shit canned. LA can never get any momentum for a stadium, no biggie, we get better games on TV! Forgot about the Maloof brothers up north, they want a new Arena, the 49ers keep getting turned down and the Chargers owner is always threatening to move. I understand the need for a new stadium when a team comes to town but some cities go crazy.

As for Omaha, that is just nuts building a stadium just for the CWS. So is it going just north of the existing stadium? I have never been to the CWS, it seems like a great event, but if the AAA team is leaving it just seems like a waste.

[OmahaBlueDog]

31. It's a really tough call

There's a lot of civic pride and a ton of room nights tied to the CWS, and the NCAA wanted a more modern stadium with larger seating capacity. The local sports governing board (MECA) and the mayor basically sold this on the principle that the CWS would continue to bring revenue, and the O Royals would be a nice draw and bring traffic to the downtown shops and restaurants. The Royals want no part of it - they're tired of having to sacrifice their best dates and leave Rosenblatt for several weeks each June. They want an intimate, family friendly arena.

The CWS stadium now has major boondoggle potential.

[proud2BlibKansan]

35. They think they need to replace that beautiful stadium?

How stupid.

[mitchum]

17. Corporate welfare that relies on the Yahoo factor

[Umbral]

19. That takes care of the Circus', who'll be serving up the bread? n/t

[Norquist Nemesis]

28. Can we vote on NASCAR sponsorships too?

Seriously. It pisses me off royally to see the U.S. Army car every time I watch a race. That money could have gone to some much needed equipment.

[Grey]

32. Stupid, Stupid, Stupid Idea.

[NaturalHigh]

33. Not a chance.

How much should taxpayers be expected to fork over to make rich sports team owners richer? Zero, IMO.

[Toucano]

34. I voted No and Yes, but they have to give them proper names.

Not "Gatorade Field" or "Mountain Dew Park" or some corporate bull.

If the community builds them, they should be named to honor the community.