Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Since gun control as we know it is dead, it's time to evolve new ideas

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
derby378 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-25-09 03:47 PM
Original message
Since gun control as we know it is dead, it's time to evolve new ideas
Do I have your attention yet?

My heart goes out to the families of the Oakland police officers gunned down over the weekend. It also goes out to the family and friends of Arkansas Democratic Party chair Bill Gwatney, who was shot to death last year. And the folks who were killed in that Alabama rampage earlier this month. And those poor kids at Columbine High School, killed by two of their classmates despite gun control laws in America being at their strongest in our nation's history.

Maybe we shouldn't be trying to remove firearms from the civilian market, not even "black rifles." But regardless of how you interpret our nation's assault and murder rates, we need to do something. Even I understand we have too many deaths because of criminals and lunatics with guns.

My first thought - start with the young.

What sort of entertainment is your children exposed to? Most people love a good Western or cop flick once in a while, but there are too many kids in America who regularly watch violent programming on TV - with no parental supervision to be found. There's a reason many of those films are rated 'R' to begin with. Robocop has a certain sad poignancy to it, but I would not let my children watch it until they were in their mid-teens, and then I'd insist on being there when they did. Let's face it: watching a police officer being tortured by multiple shotgun blasts while wearing a Kevlar vest is pretty harrowing even for many of us adults. Cut down on the blood and guts for family night.

Same thing goes for music, video games, etc. As far as rap goes, I like the old-school stuff like Public Enemy. I can't get into all this "gangsta" rap that glorifies bling, guns, and objectification of women. Don't let you kid near that stuff.

In high school, I'd like to see teachers work with police officers in offering students a guns-only version of Driver's Ed, the idea being that you demystify guns for our youth so they don't see firearms as a symbol of manhood or invincibility. Let the kids take a few shots under strict supervision at the firing range. Any kid who exhibits problems with impulse control or anger management can easily be isolated and dealt with at this point so that these behavior problems don't get the better of him or her when adulthood arrives. And if you find a kid who's a pretty good shot, give that student positive encouragement and reinforcement - maybe even some career options. Don't just turn them over to a military recruiter looking to make quota.

Second thought - improve our overall quality of life.

This applies to all ages. How many of us are really nourishing our minds and bodies properly? An undernourished brain is one that may not be optimized for prudent decision-making. I'm guilty of reaching for too many cheeseburgers, myself. Getting back to our schools, they should be feeding our students with nutritious meals that are rich in minerals and vitamins, not sugars and fat. Organic foods would be a plus. No high-fructose corn syrup, no rBST, no "frankenfoods," and a minimum of antibiotics and pesticides, please.

We have serious problems with unemployment in America. The Obama administration is doing what it can, but a lot of us need jobs so we can pay the electricity bill, keep the repo men from taking the car, and develop a little bit of dignity and confidence in ourselves. Poverty breeds desperation, and desperation often breeds crime. America's first gangs were made up of poor street kids who were shunned by the rest of society - and even today, gangs like MS-13 operate on the same basis of mutual protection against the outside world.

Then we come to the person who wants to purchase a gun - for hunting, sport, self-defense, historical reasons, whatever. In a society where the dignity of the individual is truly honored and nurtured, the ideal first-time gun owner will be slow to anger, sober in thought, and diligent in his or her actions, with a mind that hasn't been bombarded with violent and exploitive imagery since childhood, but instead well-versed in the responsibilities of civics and the public good. NICS background check? Sure. Reasonable regulations for concealed-carry license holders? Of course. Safe, secure storage of firearms? Encourage it at every turn. But no gun bans, no waiting periods, and no restrictions on how many guns you can purchase per month or year.

Maybe I'm just spouting a bunch of pie-in-the-sky nonsense, but can you fault me for believing that our society is capable of doing better in terms of making our streets more liveable while still respecting our Constitution? Bush and Cheney gave up on that ideal a long time ago. I never did.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
zanna du Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-25-09 03:51 PM
Response to Original message
1. Hurray, your post got me to register finally!
hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
derby378 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-25-09 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Welcome to DU!
:hi:

You actually registed because of me? I'm touched... :blush:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
villager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-25-09 03:57 PM
Response to Original message
3. wouldn't showing kids the true "face" of gun violence help "demystify" guns?
I mean this without snark, since I am trying to understand your post -- though I was tempted to respond with an (admittedly snarky)"so you want to regulate games but not guns?," reply (which, for what it's worth, tends to be a classic GOP position...)

But I agree that the horrific numbers/types of murders are evidence of a "culture" which is -- dare we say -- necrotic to some small or large degree.

But as for your proposed "gun ed" class(es) in high school -- wouldn't bringing in victims of gun violence, survivors, orphans, stranded siblings (I've taught a few of these) - along with cops and maybe a trip to the coroners, also do a lot to make guns seem less "cool," less like the "extra cock" that classic NRA psychology (and let's at least not pretend otherwise, for since guns are massively fetishized in this culture -- and by "bling" culture too)make them out to be...

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
derby378 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-25-09 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. That's a pretty good idea
In Driver's Ed, we were exposed to those grisly police videos of car crashes with blood on the steering wheel, crumpled bodies, and all that. And I have seen photos of what bullets and buckshot are capable of doing to the human body. One in particular haunts me to this day, but for HIPAA reasons I can't comment any further except to say I hope the bastard is still in prison.

I think students should be exposed to what happens when a gun is misused. Very good suggestion, indeed. :hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
villager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-25-09 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. well, then! Glad to find a point of agreement...!
;-)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-25-09 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. That's about as classy as plastering your car with posters of aborted fetuses
In my personal experience, neither my brother nor I were ever lured into any kind of deception about firearms being conveyors of coolness. We were both taught how to safely unload, handle, shoot, and clean them at an early age by our stepfather, who was a World War II veteran and served as a rifle instructor in the Navy.

The firearms were kept unloaded but not locked up in our house. It has never occurred to either of us in our entire lives that it would be OK to misuse one. Our instruction did include demonstrations to stress the destructive power of firearms, such as shooting at a gallon plastic jug of water and observing the effects.

Children and teenagers who are open to learning respond well to facts. Trying to shock them into conforming with your personal view about things through appeals to emotion often backfires.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
derby378 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-25-09 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. I see where you're coming from
Edited on Wed Mar-25-09 04:30 PM by derby378
I was speaking in the context of a high school elective. If you receive your firearms education at home, your parents will be there at all times when you take your first shot, to help you study your aim, to dry your tears and patch you up in case one of the moving parts pinches your skin, etc.

My parents kept out firearms unloaded and unlocked, too. My brother and I knew full well not to mess with them any more than we had to.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
villager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-25-09 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. Leave it to you, Slackmaster, to perpetuate the minimization of gun violence
and discarding testimony from those affected by it...

*No one* is talking about "plastering cars" (though given the hyperbolic nature of the "any gun, any where" folks, I can see why you instantly leapt to this unfounded conclusion)

There is some discussion -- if you care to actually "discuss" -- about what effecting de-mythologizing of guns might look like, in a school setting...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-25-09 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. I think the way my dad handled it was as well as anyone could
He did tell us a story about the ONE time in his life when he accidentally discharged a .22 rifle. The round missed his brother by about six feet.

Sorry I came on so strong in my previous reply, villager. I understand that you are trying to be constructive. I do see that there is value in communicating the lethal nature of firearms in the course of safety training. I think that taking kids to a trauma center would be overkill.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
villager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-25-09 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Well, okay -- now we can have that beer..
Was "overkill" an inadvertent pun? ;-)

I think a trauma ctr. might be eye-opening -- especially for the young men I've had in class who have a fairly sexualized view of guns, frankly...

But glad to be chewing it over with you,, rather than each of us virtually yelling...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-25-09 03:58 PM
Response to Original message
4. I keep telling people: it's all about poverty, man.
People have been killing each other for centuries before violent video games or "gangsta rap" ever came into existence. But you can draw a big, straight line from poverty in America to the three big causes of gun violence and homicides: petty theft, gangs, and drug dealing. Whenever poverty goes up, so do those three, and so does gun violence. When poverty goes down, so does everything else. I think that if we seriously made an effort to address poverty, gun deaths in this country would drop like a rock.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
derby378 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-25-09 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. Bingo
People need opportunity. And last I heard, a progressive society is supposed to be all about opportunity - you still have the freedom to screw up in life, but you also have the freedom (and the means) to find your own niche in life where you can be productive, happy, and secure in your own person.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-25-09 03:59 PM
Response to Original message
5. Tough sentences for parole violators
And world peace.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
derby378 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-25-09 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. Bwaaah!
:spray:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Fresh_Start Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-25-09 04:18 PM
Response to Original message
12. Its another part of the 'consumer economy' mindset
a lot of gun nuts like guns the way electronics nuts like electronics.

Guns don't make you cool
Guns don't make you powerful
Guns don't make you a force to be contended with.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rrneck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-25-09 04:32 PM
Response to Original message
14. If violence
were accurately depicted in the media nobody would be able to stand to watch it. Violence, just like everything in our world today, is considered a source for a revenue stream. We repackage violence to make money off it the same way we refine sugar for breakfast cereal.

Good art and literature, the kind of stuff that makes you think, would go a long way toward solving the problem. Our schools are so underfunded and teachers so overworked that kids are trapped in a system that only trains them to be obedient workers and good consumers. It seems that nobody is trained to think anymore.

People don't have time to think in country anyway. We are all too busy either trying to keep our heads above water in a system designed to fleece us for every dime we have or trying to game the system to fleece somebody else. The quality of our lives would be significantly improved if we stopped and considered the ramifications of our actions for a minute. All too frequently, the only difference between a thug that guns down somebody in the street and an upper middle class investor is that the latter sub contracts the wet work to another country with a flag wrapped around it.

The OP is excatly right. Take care of the people and the guns will take care of themselves.

Get thee to the greatest page.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
derby378 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-25-09 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. A medical school in Fort Worth started requiring its students to take art appreciation classes
It's an osteopathic school - can't recall the name. But the reason they started sending their students to art museums is because when they become physicians, they need to be able to see all the miunte details in their patients and respond accordingly. It's too easy to overlook the little things if you're a doctor with a busy schedule, but sometimes it's the little things that kill patients in the end.

Critical thinking skills are a must. Great post. :hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ColbertWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-25-09 05:52 PM
Response to Original message
17. A third way!? How novel! n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
derby378 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-25-09 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Hey, I'm trying...
I can be rather stubborn on some issues, true, but I think it's necessary for Americans, individually and in concert, to constantly remind themselves that there's always room for improvement. Our Constitution's preamble does speak of a "a more perfect union," after all.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-25-09 08:33 PM
Response to Original message
20. Firearm saftey and awareness starting at a young age
would reduce accidents as well as inappropriate use of weapons. The people most exposed to guns seem to have the least trouble.

Ignorance is not a good thing. Anti-gun folk are as lost as the anti-birth control brigade.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Auggie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-25-09 08:42 PM
Response to Original message
21. Children need to grow up into more responsible parents
It all filters down from there.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OlbermannsHead Donating Member (8 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-25-09 08:51 PM
Response to Original message
22. I'm a gunloving Liberal
and there is nothing wrong with it
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Sat Apr 20th 2024, 04:48 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC