Proposed Smoking Ban in All CA State Parks And Beaches

[The Straight Story]

Proposed Smoking Ban in All CA State Parks And Beaches

Posted: March 24, 2009 11:47 PM


SACRAMENTO - The State Senate is considering a Bill that would make smoking illegal at State Parks and State Beaches.

The Senate Natural Resources and Water Committee approved the plan on Tuesday.

It's called Senate Bill 4, and it's proposed by Long Beach Senator Jenny Oropeza.

The Bill would hit smokers with a $250 fine for smoking at State Parks and Beaches.

The Environmental Protection Agency has determined that cigarette butts are the most frequently found marine debris in the U.S.

The Democratic Senator says eliminating smoking at 279 parks and 64 beaches would cut litter and reduce the threat of forest fires.

http://www.kcba.com/Global/story.asp?S=10065872

[slackmaster]

1. Most of the cigarette butts on the beach get there by washing down storm drains

After being tossed into the street by inconsiderate motorists and pedestrians.

Banning smoking at the beaches WILL NOT fix the problem.

I detest smokers who litter, but it's not fair to restrict everyone's behavior because of the bad behavior of a minority of smokers.

[silverojo]

68. It's not a matter of cigarette butts

It's a matter of how the stench of one cigarette can make it impossible for people with respiratory problems and allergies--VERY common ailments--to enjoy the beach.

People can't stop breathing to avoid smoke. They can, on the other hand, stop smoking while they're in a public place.

[slackmaster]

71. If you had said "it's not JUST a matter of cigarette butts" I'd agree with you completely

Most of the arguments presented in the article cited in the OP concern litter. That's why I responded the way I did.

I do agree with you that it's unpleasant to, as mentioned in the article, sit down to eat and have some light up a cancer stick next to you. That problem could be fixed by people having a little common courtesy.

But the arguments about litter don't wash.

[FreeState]

2. Sounds like a good idea IMO n/t

[tabbycat31]

6. i agree

[Winterblues]

12. I'm for it.

:thumbsup:

[Raine]

Agree!

:thumbsup:

[robinlynne]

3. Hell No. Outside is the only place we can smoke.

[Obamanaut]

18. Perhaps in the comfort of your home? nt

[proud2BlibKansan]

37. Not even at home

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/27/us/27belmont.html?_r=3&hp

[Obamanaut]

76. Smoking around an oxygen tank doesn't sound good either

From the link, it appears that at least one of the smokers may have judgment problems as well.

"He finally decided he had had enough after a fire broke out in a smoker’s room in the complex in 2003, a blaze that was fed by the tenant’s oxygen tank."

So, if the neighbors don't want to damage other residents with smoke, they don't mind taking the chance on blowing them and themselves to smithereens.

[obiwan]

50. Then quit smoking.

I did, in 2002, after smoking a pack a day for 30 years. Now, the house smells a whole lot better, my mouth doesn't taste like an ashtray, and I don't cough when I get up every morning. Oh, and the extra cash isn't bad either.

I am all for this ban. Human beings can survive just fine without cigarettes.

[anigbrowl]

56. You live in a state park?

Too bad, I guess. I smoke but see nothing wrong with this.

[robinlynne]

4. The EPa is full of shit. Plastic bags are the most frequently found debris in the US

according to all the documentaries about water pollution I have ever seen.
And, cigarete butts disintegrate anyway.

[Cant trust em]

7. Why is it culturally acceptable to toss an cigarette butt in the sand?

I hate seeing cigarette butts lie around all over the place. Fucking disgusting.

[The Straight Story]

9. I think it is already illegal to throw trash on the ground

If they can't enforce the laws they have now how will they enforce this one?

[Cant trust em]

10. That didn't answer my question. NT

[The Straight Story]

13. I don't think it is acceptable to most people

but what do you do when someone does it - stare at them?

Some people have no shame - and not much you can do about those folks.

[EFerrari]

17. My family used to spend the last afternoon of our camping trip

picking up trash. It was our little ritual. But, that's what we can do about those folks. My sons were especially funny because they used to yell and scream, "Look, Mom! Look at this TOTALLY DISGUSTING stash of empty liquor bottle we found! I win!" . lol

[Cant trust em]

21. I think it is acceptable to most smokers.

I get looked at like a crazy person when I put one out on my shoe and then stick it in my pocket.

[robinlynne]

52. I'm like you. I carry a little ashtray and take my butts home. But this is not a fine for littering,

which I wholly uspport. This is saying that cigaret butts are the number one cause of marine pollution, which is ridiculous.

[Cant trust em]

53. anti-smoking people have been trying for a reasoning for years

Some people have told me that the secondhand smoke filters into their lungs anyway. WHO actually came out with a study a few years ago that said that outdoor smoke is totally harmless. It doesn't smell great when you're in a park or the beach, but I don't want to legislate against farting either.

I should say that I'm not a smoker, but seeing trash on the ground drives me crazy. But when I do smoke I like to follow my own rules.

[robinlynne]

54. My stepfather is on of the leading dna cancer researchers in the world.

second hand smoke cannot hurt anyone. Only if you were locked in a tiny room with no ventilation for several years with more smokers than can fit in the room. it is basically impossible. And he hates smoking. but those are simply lies which fit the mold , kind of like the weapons of mass destruction....

[Fumesucker]

66. Emphysema and athsma sufferers are both "harmed" by second hand smoke..

So your claim that second hand smoke cannot harm anyone is not true.

[EFerrari]

11. It's not only butts. People seem to believe the Big Outside is their toilet.

I smoke and whenever we go camping, I pack everything back in and try to do more. But, it sure doesn't seem to be a trend, if you know what I mean. Hell, this block of 48th struggles every day with all the garbage people just discard without any thought about the consequences.

You wouldn't by any chance want two broken printers, some dog poop and a pair of size 9 men's tennis shoes, would you?

[Cant trust em]

23. Living in the Mission drives me crazy sometimes

I hate watching people just toss their crap out onto the street. It drives me crazy to see some people have so little respect for their own community.

[EFerrari]

27. It's pretty much like that everywhere.

And if we could only do something about butts, plastic bags and those plastic 6pk holders, that would huge. But barring smoking outside isn't really the way to go. Most smokers feel so guilty already, we'd be further ahead to ask them to clean up after themselves and a little more.

[Cant trust em]

31. I feel like some neighborhoods are cleaner than others though

But I do agree that another law here isn't really the way to go. I'm more interested in the instilling cultural change model here.

[EFerrari]

33. It's people in the neighborhoods that set limits and that

advocate for limits -- i.e., we don't want dogs defacating on the side walks, we don't tolerate dumping here, you can't deal drugs here because we'll turn you in. I'm lucky because my neighbors are mostly great neighborhood types and because Taraval Station has had great leadership. We're making some gains out here but, it's work. It doesn't happen by itself like frig mold. :)

[Cant trust em]

35. yeah. there's just no culture for that here.

I think that the activism here is more geared towards housing and economic equity. There's no energy for basic street cleanliness.

[proud2BlibKansan]

36. How about some of these?

[Cant trust em]

38. I can dig it.

I would love to see a garbage can/ash tray on every street corner.

[proud2BlibKansan]

40. I honestly think most smokers would use ashtrays if they were on the beach

There will always be a few who don't but it seems silly to frown upon cigarette butts on the beach or wherever when there is nowhere to dispose of them.

[Cant trust em]

43. If anything it would eliminate the excuse.

Then the only remaining people who litter would be the dickheads.

[EFerrari]

45. There's so many kinds of litter, it might be more efficient to have

bags available on your way to the beach in dispensers like dog parks have them. When people go to the beach they smoke but they also have snacks which means wrappers and stuff. If you had the visual reminder of the bag dispenser, you could grab one on the way and put your bag in the trash on your way out.

[Dulcinea]

79. Agreed.

Put ashtrays on the beach & in the parks, & smokers will use them. That solves a big litter problem.

I'm against any regulation that bans smoking outdoors or in bars. It's a sign of creeping fascism. Please, no whining from anti-smoking Nazis, either.

[EFerrari]

39. Non smokers may not know this but there are all kinds of products

smokers use to collect, store and dispose of butts. I use a baggie in my coat pocket but once my mother in law gave me this little round container that opens up to receive cigarette butts and that goes in your purse just like one of those tiny containers for aspirin. It's about 1.5 inches in diameter.

People don't have to be dickheads if they smoke. That's more about dickheads than about smokers.

[proud2BlibKansan]

41. I knew a girl in college who had a little ashtray she carried in her purse

I thought it was so elegant. LOL

[EFerrari]

42. Exactly. LOL! My mil and her sister were flappers.

Everything they did had style. Maybe that's why she gave me that ashtray -- so I wouldn't disgrace her by grinding out my cigarette under my heel. lol

But, she was right about that as she was about so many things. :)

[Matariki]

80. Or spit on the sidewalk?

x(

It's just gross. Some people are just selfish and oblivious to the fact that they share the world with others.

[Obamanaut]

Filter stays for a very, very long time. nt

[kestrel91316]

22. Cigarette butts may eventually fall apart, but they do not biodegrade.

But seriously, have you ever gone to Santa Monica Beach? Or Malibu Surfrider? MILLIONS of cigarette butts. And they harm wildlife.

Heal the Bay's Coastal Cleanup of Santa Monica Beach in 2007 recovered, among other things, a 6 ft plexiglass tube (unknown diameter) full of cigarette butts. But you just keep living in your pathetic little bubble where all is well and beaches are just oversized ash trays for your personal use.

[Canuckistanian]

55. What are cigarette filters made from?

Isn't it some form of cellulose? I would think that even cellulose breaks down eventually.

[Obamanaut]

62. Cellulose acetate, lasts a long time, estimates up to 10-15 years

I got this from Wiki, because it was the easiest to copy. There is much more at the link, and many more references via google

<snip>
The cellulose acetate most cigarette filters are made from is a biodegradable resistant material. Depending on conditions, estimates for the time taken for them to degrade range from British American Tobacco’s 10 months - 3 years, to 10-15 years.

<snip>
This resistance to biodegrading is a factor in littering, environmental damage and suggested lung damage. In the 2006 International Coastal Cleanup, cigarettes and cigarette butts constituted 24.7% of the total collected garbage, over twice as much as any other category


More at link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cigarette_filter

[Canuckistanian]

63. Thanks

I was too lazy to google it myself.

Still, 15 years is not a great amount of time. A mere annoyance in terms of environmental damage, compared to nuclear waste or plastic.

[Obamanaut]

65. This has nothing to do with filters. Some years back I got a plastic

bag from s shoe store with a purchase, and printed on the bag was "biodegrades in landfills." I was curious, thinking that in a landfill it would be covered, and in the dark - surely out in the sun it would also degrade.

I hung it on my clothesline (we hang our stuff out to dry, no dryer) for nearly two years, no apparent damage to the bag. Miz O thought I'd gone bonkers.

[Canuckistanian]

67. Well, "biodegration" is a relative term

Your plastic bag probably required moisture and bacterial action to degrade properly. Hanging it out on the clothesline didn't help the process.

My wife just bought biodegradable bags for her business that specify burial or moisture to complete the process.

But there are other materials that DO degrade on exposure to the sun and wind.

[Demobrat]

5. Good.

When I lived in SoCal the number of smokers who thought the beach was one huge ashtray was astounding.

[TheCowsCameHome]

8. Good way to keep parks and beaches clean.

Maybe smokers will learn to dispose of their butts properly.

[Upton]

14. Excellent idea..all states should enact such a law

when visiting a state park or beach one should not be subjected to carcinogens, fires or the rudeness of your typical butt tossing nicotine addict.

My only disagreement would be with the fine...it should be higher that $250.

[TahitiNut]

15. Oh goodie! Another stiffy for the tobacco fascists. Of course the REASON will change ...

... but 'reasons' are bullshit rationalizations anyway. :shrug: Get yer 2-minute-hate on here!

[anigbrowl]

57. Big Tobacco - fighting for freedom!

:rofl:

[kestrel91316]

16. Works for me. Judging from all the cigarette butts on our lovely beaches,

most smokers don't bother to dispose of them properly. So they need to lose the privilege.

[EFerrari]

19. I think that's called collective punishment. n/t

[kestrel91316]

25. I don't give a damn. It's NOT punishment. It's prevention. You can smoke all

you want, just not on our beaches. They have become disgusting because of the bad manners of far too many smokers.

[EFerrari]

29. What an elegant and rational reply.

[tammywammy]

24. Why not just punish those that do throw them out on the beach with littering?

Why punish all smokers?

[empyreanisles]

20. I don't smoke, but I feel this is going too far and restricts freedom.

Smokers have been held in a vice for many years. I think they've sacrificed enough.

[kestrel91316]

26. Well apparently the poor put-upon dears think it's too much effort to throw their butts

in the frickin' trash where they belong. So now they can just smoke somewhere else. Our beaches are not ash trays.

[tammywammy]

30. Then they should go after those people for littering n/t

[EFerrari]

32. Thank God you're not in Public Health. What ridiculous overkill.

This needs a PR effort and some social pressure as the other most prevalent forms of littering do.

[Kalyke]

75. Where can they smoke?

You tobacco-nazis (little 'n') keep legislating them out of everywhere.

Provide some damn ashtrays and you'll see a clean up. Hell, people complain about drivers flipping butts out, but do you know why? Car companies no longer include ashtrays. It's very dumb.

[Upton]

28. There's no such thing

as the freedom to throw trash on the beaches. Smokers want to litter, let them keep their nasty habit at home, behind closed doors.

[The Straight Story]

34. Smokers don't - INDIVIDUALS do. Many people own guns, a few use them in crimes

Many drink, some drink and drive.

Punish the ones that break the law, not everyone else.

Unless of course you are lazy :)

[Politicalboi]

44. Those nasty cigarette butts

What a stupid law. Just fine the ones who litter. We recycle our plastic bags and I cut the plastic rings from six packs. I pay taxes for these parks why can't I smoke on the beach or in a park?

[FiveGoodMen]

46. Some people just can't get enough Prohibition!

[OffWithTheirHeads]

47. Man, I can't wait to get out of this nanny state.

1 1/2 years left till retirement and I'm outta California! Fuck this shit. Don't talk on your cell phone, don't smoke, don't own these guns, don't let your pets in the front seat, wear a seat belt and on and on and on.

On the other hand, go ahead and bribe your reps so that legislation goes your way and you get rich (see Gallo among many others. Sell us voting machines that skew the results your way, no problem. Spend our tax dollars to help the rich get richer (See McHenery, San Pedro Square while the rest of the city descends into blight).

We have serious problems in California that need to be addressed. Busting peoples chops for smoking OUTSIDE ain't our most important priority. It's political Kabuki.

Last year I was at LAX. I was in one of the inner terminals. I walked outside to have a smoke and was told that this could NOT BE ALLOWED! What? I was gonna pollute the jet fumes with my cigarette? I had to take a 1/2 hour trip, each way, to the front of the terminal to have a smoke. Did this actually prevent someone from getting cancer? Are you really going to tell me that the exhaust from all those airplanes was less of a danger to society than my cigarette?

give me a fucking break and get me outta here!

[Upton]

51. You took a 1/2 hour trip each way

just to have a smoke? Man, you have an addiction going or what?

[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Upton]

61. Excuses, excuses

every addict has a laundry list full of 'em...Millions of people have quit smoking, try demonstrating a little character and follow their example.

[Generic Other]

48. does this include pot?

cause that sucks

[Demobrat]

73. Use a pipe and a lighter

Problem solved.

[4lbs]

49. As much as I dislike smoking, this cigarettes causing forest fires meme is bogus.

The last several large California wildfires weren't caused by cigarette smokers carelessly flicking their smoldering sticks into dry brush.

Most of them were intentionally set by arsonists, one by a downed power line due to high winds, and one was set off by accident by a person who was lost and lit a fire to keep warm.

[Auggie]

59. I'll support it

[TheKentuckian]

60. Another proposal for the leftwing version of the brownshirts

yipee

[Fuzz]

64. Good. I'm trying to quit going to California.

[dysfunctional press]

69. i was really bummed when we hiked into cathedral lake in the yosemite back country...

BEAUTIFUL lake, about 4 miles in, at about 9,300 ft. up...and the place was littered with cigarette butts...:banghead: :grr:

[1]

70. fuck the fucking smokers...

can i shoot up in all ca state parks and beaches?

can i masturbate in all ca state parks and beaches?

can i do any nasty thing i want in all ca state parks and beaches?

fuck the fucking smokers...

[havocmom]

72. When I was a kid, in California, one could not smoke outside in the forest parks

Smoking ONLY in one's own car. Problem the rule addressed was not litter, but FIRE. Made sense to me, even though it made it difficult to travel in those mountain areas with parents who smoked. But outside, the air was fresh and the chance of some bozo starting a huge conflagration was less.

[Kalyke]

74. Wow - yet another reason not to live in California.

You can't drive a black car and you can't smoke outdoors.


:eyes:


No wonder people are fleeing from this state.

[Crunchy Frog]

77. Good. Those cigarette butts are disgusting.

[MonteLukast]

78. I say yes to the national parks, no to the beaches.

From a fire danger standpoint more than a secondhand smoke standpoint. Is California still tinder-dry?

The beaches, though; with all that sea breeze, wouldn't it be one of the better places to smoke and not be offensive to anybody?

People who litter with cigarette butts are just rude.