OMG...not more Dugars! These whacked-out Xtians are running veritable puppy mills.

[Obamarama]

I caught this piece on NPR this morning and just about upchucked my breakfast mid-commute. These zealots have a few screws loose. Their aim is to pump out as many little "christian warriors" as they can produce:

The Swansons subscribe to the Quiverfull movement.

"When we first got married, we actually didn't want children," Kelly's husband, Jeff Swanson, says.

But then the Swansons began to notice that the Bible was very high on big families. And Kelly says that she and Jeff decided that God knew how many children they could handle.

"We just started thinking, 'God is sovereign over life and death. God opens and closes the womb,' " Kelly says. "That's what his word says, so why we're trying to fiddle around and controlling ourselves, we need to stop doing that." Oh...but you want OTHER people to control themselves, i.e. people having premarital sex and gays and lesbians

-snip-

In a suburb of Grand Rapids, Mich., Misty and Seth Huckstead, both 31, are straightening up the living room for a birthday party. No small task with six kids and one on the way. With such a large family, they get by with one car. They shop at thrift stores and occasionally rely on the local seminary's food bank. How nice...your selfishness drives you to take food away from a food bank that people who make wiser choices in life rely upon. Talk about piggishness.

-snip-

"They speak about, 'If everyone starts having eight children or 12 children, imagine in three generations what we'll be able to do,' " Joyce says. " 'We'll be able to take over both halls of Congress, we'll be able to reclaim sinful cities like San Francisco for the faithful, and we'll be able to wage very effective massive boycotts against companies that are going against God's will.

If these people weren't so fucking scary, they'd be entertaining. You can hear about their whole sordid plan here: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=102005062

[Arctic Dave]

1. Too bad having kids is the only thing in life you don't

need a test for.

[eppur_se_muova]

3. The test is reading the directions on a condom package.

Those who fail, have more kids.

[Arctic Dave]

8. This kind of crazy is beyond reading simple instructions.

[eppur_se_muova]

63. Sadly true. nt

[Rage for Order]

2. Wow...

Judgmental much?

[Obamarama]

6. Absofuckinglutely, you're damned straight I'm judgemental when it comes to these assholes.

They judge me, I judge them.

Trust me...they'd just as soon stone me for being gay as create more little prostelytizers. They are nothing more than the Taliban disguised as something glorious and grand. Well, fuck them...I'm not buying it. They're fucking nuts.

So yeah..I'm pretty judgemental when it comes to this brand of fanatacism.

[Rage for Order]

9. If you think people like this are equivalent to the Taliban

Then it would be impossible to have a reasonable discussion with you.

Can you point to any mainstream Christian church (Fred Phelps & Westboro Baptist don't count) or preacher who has suggested that gay people should be stoned to death, or killed by any other means, because they are gay?

[Obamarama]

10. Oh please...save your feigned naivte for someone stupid enough to believe you.

They don't actually come out and say it, but it's implied.

[Rage for Order]

11. Your poutrage is amusing if nothing else

"...and we'll be able to wage very effective massive boycotts against companies that are going against God's will."

Yep, I can see how the execution of gay people is implied in that statement. :crazy:

[Obamarama]

18. Again, I say: save your feigned naivte for someone stupid enough to believe it.

Nuff said. Now out of my way so I can put you on my ignore list.

[Rage for Order]

22. I'm on your ignore list?

I'm hurt. Truly I am :eyes:

[Obamarama]

24. Actually, no, Just kidding.

Thought it would give you a chuckle.

[Rage for Order]

31. Honestly, we're probably not as far apart on this as you would think

I don't much care for the hard-core religious fundies either; I just don't see these people as a serious threat. I think they're more of a nuisance, and I think there are more thinking people than there are people of this ilk. Perhaps I'm naive, but my experience in dealing with people like them is that they aren't out to physically hurt you, they're out to convert you. I found this part of your commentary to be a bit over the top though, which is why I said you were being judgmental:

"They shop at thrift stores and occasionally rely on the local seminary's food bank. How nice...your selfishness drives you to take food away from a food bank that people who make wiser choices in life rely upon. Talk about piggishness."

Who's to say the other people utilizing the food bank made wiser choices in life than this couple did? Maybe they could afford the kids, but then one of them lost a job to outsourcing, or had their hours cut, had a serious medical condition, or a host of other possibilities.

[14thColony]

48. True they're not generally advocates of personal violence

but the political-ideological brand of fundamentalist Christianity recognizes the correlation between numbers and political power - hence the Moral Majority of the 1980s. This is a logical extension of that idea; if you don't have the numbers to take over complete control of a democratic system now, then with a little prudent planning you can breed yourself there in a few generations. It may never involve physical coercion, but I would suggest that won't be an America that will be very hospitable for most people at DU.

[road2000]

59. Not generally advocates of personal violence, but...

whenever some parent goes nuts and slaughters all the kids, it seems either Jesus or God is cited for pushing the button.

[MountainLaurel]

12. Well

The lovely 200-year-old church I attended as a child thought that AIDS was a gift from God to save America from the gay menace and thought that all gay people should be sent to an island. Is that close enough to stoning for you?

Fred Phelps is just the ugly face of what gets preached in a lot of mainstream churches every Sunday, in the same way that the Klan was the militant arm of racist institutions run by upstanding pillars of the community in three-piece suits.

[Rage for Order]

20. Certainly some of the so-called Christians are hateful hypocrites

I won't argue that point, because it is absolutely true. I'm curious though - at the church of your youth, what did they propose to do once all the gay people were on that island? Were they going to nuke the island and kill everyone?

There are degrees of wacky fundamentalism. One of my sisters and her husband are hardcore religious zealots. If they were Muslims they would've blown themselves up a long time ago. But I've never heard them say anything that could be construed as wanting to kill gay people, and they're about as fundie Baptist as it gets.

[Obamarama]

29. Hey...quit hijacking the fucking thread.

This is not about dimwitted Xtians wanting to off gays. It's about them spitting out litters of children to hopefully take over the friggin' world.

To take my suggestion that they would just as soon stone me for being gay as pump out another youngin' as literal is disingenuous. Clearly my intent was to underscore that, as I clearly articulated further on up in that post, they judge me, I judge them.

[Rage for Order]

32. I was commenting, not hijacking

:shrug:

Sorry if you took it as me trying to hijack the thread.

[Obamarama]

38. Hey, I believe what you said earlier on in this crazy discussion...

That you don't care for them and view them as a nusiance. So yes, it appears we are both on the same page on this. And pardon what might appear to be over-the-top generalizations, but I live smack dab in the middle of the Bible Belt of Western Michigan where the people for this interview were interviewed. I see and hear this sort of nonsensical reasoning and wanton prosyeltizing on a very regular basis. It wears thin on a person.

The only thing I ask you to revisit is your statement that the wingnut branch of the Christian faith isn't out to hurt gays and lesbians. I beg to differ. The reason my hackles are up about that particular point is that in my town they are trying to roadblock an ordinance that would probibit discrimination against gays and lesbians in employment, accomodations, etc.

They may not want to physically hurt us (or at least most of them don't), but they are certainly up to the task of emotionally and psychologically hurting gays and lesbians. I have known several friends who attempted suicide when they were younger and struggling with their sexuality and how religion played into it. I was personally told by my Catholic priest that I had to pray for salvation or face certain hell. Five years later, he was busted in a rest area, on his knees performing oral sex on another man. It's a good thing I didn't listen to him. But a lot of people do listen to people like him and end up emotionally and psychologically damaged as a result. Furthermore their "gays are evil" mantra gives a sense of purpose to those who would seek to harm us physically.

I know I said this thread wasn't about homosexuality, but I felt that I needed to address those parts of your posts in a reasoned manner, and also help you understand my strong reaction to this brand of "Christian".

[robertpaulsen]

61. Just take away the separation of church & state, wait 20 years, then see what happens.

I guarantee that their inhibitions about not wanting to physically hurt gays and lesbians or anyone else that is "different" from what they perceive as "normal" will be loosened. You will start to see gays and lesbians "disappear". Or maybe after 20 years of theocracy, they won't feel the need to hide such behavior and will openly burn them at the stake to commemorate the last time there was no separation of church and state on this piece of geography we call America.

This is one point of contention I have with Bill Maher when he poo-poos guests on his show who compare Fundigelicals with the Taliban by contrasting their behavior. No, Bill, the Fundigelicals don't behave as bad as the Taliban do right now. That's because under the Taliban, Afghanistan had no separation of church and state. If America dropped the separation of church and state, who do you think would act like the Taliban in this country, Bill?

[doggie du]

15. The problem with your selectivity is that any church that does say that (there are many) are

automatically relegated to "non-mainstream" status according to your criteria. It's a win-win situation if you're on the bigot side of the question.

[Bill McBlueState]

56. heh, good point

It's what I was going to say, but you did it more concisely than I would have. Welcome to DU.

[juno jones]

16. An oldie but a goodie...

They don't just want eliminate Gays, they're perfectly willing to snuff out all 'unbelievers'. And it ain't just Westboro Baptist, these guys are nationwide and uncomfortably close to power:

"Seven Mountains" and the "Joel's Army" plan for takeover: http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/10/7/165650/170

Jeff Sharlet's blog (author of 'The Family' exposing the group in Washington DC behind the prayer breakfasts and other assorted goodies): Call Me Ishmael (which coincidentally enough has a review up right now for a book about the quiverfull phenomenon) http://jeffsharlet.blogspot.com

And an overview of religious politics in America: http://www.talk2action.org/

Check out practices like 'steeplejacking' where 'mainstream' churches are converted (perverted) into extreme fundie tax havens.

It's not just Phelps and his kids.

[kath]

17. Do you have a reading comprehension problem? Did you not see this in the OP: " 'If everyone starts

starts having eight children or 12 children, imagine in three generations what we'll be able to do,' " Joyce says. " 'We'll be able to take over both halls of Congress, we'll be able to reclaim sinful cities like San Francisco for the faithful, and we'll be able to wage very effective massive boycotts against companies that are going against God's will.' "??
There's more of that bullshit in the article.

And do you know nothing about the Christian Reconstructionists/Dominionists? Those people DO advocate stoning for gays and other "sinners". And their numbers are growing rapidly. They have been quite successful in infiltrating all levels of govt - Sarah Palin is one.

[KittyWampus]

50. apparently you haven't been exposed to the toxic "pray the gay away" vitriol spouted by these types

NO, they don't outright stone gay people. But they do everything to make their lives so miserable and guilt-ridden gay children contemplate and too often commit suicide.

AND

there is, in fact, an entire group of Christian Fundamentalists who do in fact want to return to Biblical Law. And that does include stoning people for adultery etc. Some of these Christian Taliban have a lot of money and have pumped HUGE amounts into the Republican party and the Snakeoil salesmen they call preachers.

They are called Christian Reconstructionists.

[rvablue]

58. Hope you're talking about the people outlined in the OP. Sure seems like they like to judge others.

Hence their weird and bizarre plan to "save" San Francisco by overbreeding and relying on charities to feed their army of kids to retake the nation under their hypocritical and condemning ethos.

[Mister Ed]

4. Boy, are they going to be surprised that their brand of "Christianity" isn't an inherited trait.

Nor one that can be successfully force-fed to their children.

[surrealAmerican]

37. Exactly.

Just wait until some of their children grow up to be atheists.

[14thColony]

49. That's what happened to me

Raised ultra-fundamentalist in the Deep South. I think it was just too much for too long and my mind ended up rejecting it en toto. Of my peers about half became like me and about half remained militant true-believers. But half of 12 kids is still a lot more than progressive families are producing. Their timeline might be longer than they think, but it doesn't mean they can't still win.

[mainegreen]

40. I'd be surprised if 50% of their kids didn't end up non-religious.

Happened an awful lot in the larger families I knew.

[flvegan]

5. Lunatics. n/t

[muntrv]

7. "God opens and closes the womb?" Kelly, you're the one who opens your vagina to you hubby's penis.

[TheCowsCameHome]

13. Damn, her well has to dry up sooner or later.

Or maybe his weenie will just callous-over.

[NYC_SKP]

14. My Goddess can kick their God's fucking ass, and will.

"Goddess" Mother Nature has a way of handling these things.

Sad part is that she'll take us all out and not just these fundies.

:patriot:

[malaise]

19. God opens and closes the womb

Listen nutcase it is you who open those legs without using contraceptives.
Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah hahahahahaahahahaa :rofl:

gr.

[gauguin57]

45. I hope God gives these wombs a little botox ... cuz can you imagin what they're gonna look like

after, like, 13 kids have grown in there?

[Politicalboi]

21. Gee I thought they had children

Becuase they loved them not to make some record.

[Canuckistanian]

23. They assume that their kids will turn out just like them

But look at all the posts here at DU that start "Guess what my fundie parents just did.....".

Seems to me that the crazier they are, the more die-hard liberals they add to society.

[Berry Cool]

27. This is what I think is so amusing.

These people are naive enough to think they can force their beliefs on all their many children. They have absolutely no idea how many of them are going to look around themselves and say "I'm blowing this popstand."

[demigoddess]

43. yes, nothing creates atheists like going to church!!

ha ha on them

[cmf]

25. The religious battle aspect of it is what is really appalling

I listened to it this morning. The leader of the movement started off by talking about the parts of the world where Muslims are taking over just because they have a high birth rate. I think they envision some epic battle eventually against everyone whose lifestyle they disagree with - liberals, gays, Muslims, etc. It's just very scary and I hope it doesn't catch on.

[kath]

28. They DO envision an epic battle - check out the stuff that a poster named dogemperor posted on

DailyKos (and mirrored on other sites) after Palin was chosen for VP candidate.

The Dominionists are scary mofos. And their numbers are increasing rapidly...

[PfcHammer]

26. What if some coloreds were birthin at this rate? All hell would break out

Bill Bennett would be calling to kill the babies.

[Dukkha]

34. They already have

http://mediamatters.org/items/200605120006

On The Big Story, John Gibson urged viewers to "o your duty. Make more babies," because he had found out, from a recently released report, that nearly half of all children under the age of five in the United States are minorities. Gibson added: "You know what that means? Twenty-five years and the majority of the population is Hispanic." Gibson later repeated: "To put it bluntly, we need more babies."

[TheCowsCameHome]

35. More albino chipmunks like Gibson - just what the world needs.

[mitchum]

39. A friend insists that these breeding white fundies took Richard Pryor's old joke...

as a manifesto to counteract

[ThoughtCriminal]

30. Nothing quite tests your faith...

like having 3 or 4 teenagers in the same house. Oh, they think they can handle it with home-schooling and abstinence education (so did the Palins), but by the time the oldest is 14 and they see what they're in for, there are already 6 to 8 in the que and it's too late to hit the breaks.

"Oh, yeah. Oooh, ahhh, that's how it always starts. Then later there's running and screaming." - Dr. Malcolm (The Lost World)

[tabbycat31]

33. so when will TLC give them a show?

n/t

[TheCowsCameHome]

36. TLC = They're Losing Count, in the Dugar's case.

Edit: sp

[dflprincess]

41. How are these people any less psychotic than

the guy being discussed in another thread who thinks God told him to cut off his hand. At least that poor soul only hurt himself, but these fools are dragging kids into their own little hell.

[Lilith Velkor]

57. I wonder why there's no "Call CPS!" or "Sew her vagina shut!!" on this thread

(Actually, no I don't.)

[progressoid]

42. Hmmm

Nobody brought up Catholics and Mormons yet? :shrug:

[SammyWinstonJack]

54. .

:evilgrin:

[MillieJo]

55. Most Catholics I know stop at two or three children...

Maybe because I live in London and people can barely afford their homes, let alone more than two children.
Those that has more are usually African families.

[progressoid]

62. Every Sperm Is Sacred

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0kJHQpvgB8

:evilgrin:

True, a lot of modern Catholics tend to loosely interpret much of what their leaders decree about reproduction. But I also know of plenty of Catholics (and a couple Mormons) that take their church's edicts very seriously.

[gauguin57]

44. Sorry, but the Earth has too many people. Having scads of kids is socially irresponsible.

Too many people for too few resources.

When the panic comes, the Quiverfulls cannot have my food. They can pray God sends their huge broods manna from heaven.

[gauguin57]

46. The Quiverfulls should be a horror movie, not a movement.

Seriously ... a movie about them would scare me for days.

[ima_sinnic]

47. what will they do when some of those children turn out to be gay? (nt)

[Stevenmarc]

51. They'll do what they usually do

try to cure them or just shun them.

[LanternWaste]

52. odd... the post about a brit suggesting we slow down our...

Odd... compare the responses of to this post to the post yesterday about a Brit suggesting we slow down our procreative habits a bit.



Some responses which hit both sides of the extremity meter, one extreme attempting to deny the premise of the other extreme.




On edit-- yeah, here it is...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5320950

[RamboLiberal]

53. There's a book out about the Quiverfull movement

& Newsweek had an article recently by the author of the book.

Quiverfull: Inside the Christian Patriarchy Movement, I posted in DU's non-fiction book forum.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=209x7284

[robertpaulsen]

60. 'If everyone starts having eight children or 12 children, imagine in three generations . . . '

what we'll be able to do,'

Yes, imagine. Imagine Easter Island on a global scale. Or better yet, stop imagining, pick up a copy of Jared Diamond's Collapse, read that motherfucker and then start acting like the responsible planetary stewards God intended you to be!!!