Question... If I went back and researched the threads and posts 3 years ago about Afghanistan

[Peacetrain]

How many people would have been supporting the conflict in Afghanistan to get Bin Laden over what was going on in Iraq?

If I remember correctly and I was lurking in here quite a bit, there was a tremendous call to put our forces in Afghanistan and get out of Iraq.

[rockymountaindem]

1. That's how I recall it too

Although there has never been any shortage of DUers who see the conflicts as two sides of the same coin. I'm not inclined to that view personally.

[butterfly77]

2. Exactly...

some people have selective amnesia and some of these same people act as though the Pres didn't say this over and over on the campaign trail..

[TahitiNut]

3. I have consistently opposed BOTH invasions and occupations.

:shrug: They differ only in the degree to which they're illicit, Iraq being more so.

[G_j]

11. same here nt

[ret5hd]

4. You wouldn't find me supporting either war.

[BuyingThyme]

5. 1) False choice. 2) Three years is a long fucking time.

[Stinky The Clown]

6. 40 years ago, I favored leisure suits

[Traveling_Home]

7. I don't think so - Bush was in office nt

[CountAllVotes]

8. I do not support war, any war

and you won't find me on a list of "supporters" of these war criminals. I don't care what their names are, Bush, Cheney, Ashcroft, Rumsfeld, Obama, et al.

:kick:

[TwilightZone]

9. Agreed.

I seem to recall a lot of discussion about moving our troops out of Iraq into Afghanistan, where many people thought they should have been in the first place, primarily because of bin Laden, the al Queda training camps, the Taliban, etc.

[JohnnyLib2]

10. I think we're seeing the clash of popularity and real plans, now.

It was inevitable, historically speaking.

[bobburgster]

12. "You took the words right out of my mouth" Meatloaf

Couldn't of said it any better. Said those same words when watching CM on Hardball ranting about Obama's increase in troops.

[acmavm]

13. What I remember (and agreed with) is that people were saying that

Afganistan was an empire killer and that many countries have tried but none have succeeded in taking over the place. That's when I first read the poem...

The Young British Soldier


When the 'arf-made recruity goes out to the East
'E acts like a babe an' 'e drinks like a beast,
An' 'e wonders because 'e is frequent deceased
Ere 'e's fit for to serve as a soldier.
Serve, serve, serve as a soldier,
Serve, serve, serve as a soldier,
Serve, serve, serve as a soldier,
So-oldier ~OF~ the Queen!

Now all you recruities what's drafted to-day,
You shut up your rag-box an' 'ark to my lay,
An' I'll sing you a soldier as far as I may:
A soldier what's fit for a soldier.
Fit, fit, fit for a soldier . . .

First mind you steer clear o' the grog-sellers' huts,
For they sell you Fixed Bay'nets that rots out your guts --
Ay, drink that 'ud eat the live steel from your butts --
An' it's bad for the young British soldier.
Bad, bad, bad for the soldier . . .

When the cholera comes -- as it will past a doubt --
Keep out of the wet and don't go on the shout,
For the sickness gets in as the liquor dies out,
An' it crumples the young British soldier.
Crum-, crum-, crumples the soldier . . .

But the worst o' your foes is the sun over'ead:
You ~must~ wear your 'elmet for all that is said:
If 'e finds you uncovered 'e'll knock you down dead,
An' you'll die like a fool of a soldier.
Fool, fool, fool of a soldier . . .

If you're cast for fatigue by a sergeant unkind,
Don't grouse like a woman nor crack on nor blind;
Be handy and civil, and then you will find
That it's beer for the young British soldier.
Beer, beer, beer for the soldier . . .

Now, if you must marry, take care she is old --
A troop-sergeant's widow's the nicest I'm told,
For beauty won't help if your rations is cold,
Nor love ain't enough for a soldier.
'Nough, 'nough, 'nough for a soldier . . .

If the wife should go wrong with a comrade, be loath
To shoot when you catch 'em -- you'll swing, on my oath! --
Make 'im take 'er and keep 'er: that's Hell for them both,
An' you're shut o' the curse of a soldier.
Curse, curse, curse of a soldier . . .

When first under fire an' you're wishful to duck,
Don't look nor take 'eed at the man that is struck,
Be thankful you're livin', and trust to your luck
And march to your front like a soldier.
Front, front, front like a soldier . . .

When 'arf of your bullets fly wide in the ditch,
Don't call your Martini a cross-eyed old bitch;
She's human as you are -- you treat her as sich,
An' she'll fight for the young British soldier.
Fight, fight, fight for the soldier . . .

When shakin' their bustles like ladies so fine,
The guns o' the enemy wheel into line,
Shoot low at the limbers an' don't mind the shine,
For noise never startles the soldier.
Start-, start-, startles the soldier . . .

If your officer's dead and the sergeants look white,
Remember it's ruin to run from a fight:
So take open order, lie down, and sit tight,
And wait for supports like a soldier.
Wait, wait, wait like a soldier . . .

When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains,
And the women come out to cut up what remains,
Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains
An' go to your Gawd like a soldier.
Go, go, go like a soldier,
Go, go, go like a soldier,
Go, go, go like a soldier,
So-oldier ~of~ the Queen!

Rudyard Kipling:

[BrklynLiberal]

15. Due to its location, the number of peoples who invaded Afghanistan is very, very large.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghanistan

[acmavm]

16. Yep, and they all got their asses kicked too.

<snip>


Afghanistan is a crossroads between the East and the West, and has been an ancient focal point of trade and migration. It has an important geostrategical location, connecting South and Central Asia and Middle East. During its long history, the land has seen various invaders and conquerors, while on the other hand, local entities invaded the surrounding vast regions to form their own empires. Ahmad Shah Durrani created the Durrani Empire in 1747, which is considered the beginning of modern Afghanistan.<10> Subsequently, the capital was shifted to Kabul and most of its territories ceded to former neighboring countries. In the late 19th century, Afghanistan became a buffer state in "The Great Game" played between the British Indian Empire and Russian Empire.<11> On August 19, 1919, following the third Anglo-Afghan war, the country regained full independence from the United Kingdom over its foreign affairs.

[AZBlue]

14. I'll say it: I still feel that way.

Flame away if you like, I don't care.

[originalpckelly]

17. You can't force anyone into self-determination. They have to have the intellectual foundation for it

[bvar22]

18. I support an International Law Enforcement approach....

...to catch the handful of criminals responsible for 9-11.

I have NEVER supported the wholesale invasion and occupation of Afghanistan with the accompanying murder of people who had absolutely NOTHING to do with 9-11.

I do NOT support the escalation of the War in Afghanistan.

No Military Objective + No Exit Strategy = Another Quagmire

[mix]

19. Afghanistan was a mistake.

We could have negotiated with moderate Taliban elements willing to throw out Al Qaida, and achieved that goal, without a wholesale invasion and occupation. This will essentially be the outcome anyway.

The bigger picture is the New Great Game, or control of oil and gas transit routes out of the Caspian Sea area, a project that Bush-Cheney initially tried to pass off to NATO, but one that Obama seems to have made his own.

Folly.

[paulsby]

21. oxymoron

"moderate taliban elements"

[tekisui]

20. I have been opposed to both wars.

The first part of Obama's argument, during the campaign was right. Bush took his eye off the ball, and took our troops and resources to Iraq wrongly.

The next part was wrong. That ship sailed, the worms can't be put back in the can. I have wanted out of Afghanistan as long as I have wanted out of Iraq. I don't know about everyone else.

[LWolf]

22. I didn't support either war then,

and I don't support any war now.

I never, for even a brief instant, supported any version of a "war on terror."

[Iggo]

23. You should do it.

Then talk about it.

[Fleshdancer]

24. I was certainly one of them

I supported invading Afghanistan from day one and I opposed invading Iraq from day one. I think we could have succeeded in our mission in Afghanistan had we never invaded Iraq but since we did, I'm not as confident. Now my concern isn't so much with Afghanistan (although I believe we have the moral obligation to rebuild their infrastructure), but I worry about Pakistan. The Taliban taking over the Swat Valley is no small thing.

[guruoo]

25. Yeah, you remember correctly.

[Pastiche423]

26. I supported neither then

I support neither now.

Btw, I've been here seven years and have felt the same from the begionning.