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Reconcile these two points: Greider and Roubini

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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-28-09 10:07 PM
Original message
Reconcile these two points: Greider and Roubini
WILLIAM GREIDER: President Obama and if the Democratic leaders in Congress follow along, he'll put the Democratic Party on the wrong side of history. At this critical moment. What we ought to be seeking, the goal of reform, and government aid, is creating a new financial and banking system, of many more, thousands more, smaller, more diverse, regionally dispersed banks and investment firms. That's first obligation is to serve the economy and serve society. Not the other way around. What the administration's approach may be doing is consecrating too big to fail, for starters. Which, of course, everybody in government denied was the policy until the moment arrived. And secondly, and this will sound extreme to some people, but I came to it reluctantly. I fear what they're doing, not intentionally, but in their design is setting the crown for a corporate state.

link


Roubini Says Geithner Plan Won’t Prevent Bank Nationalizations :

The government is conducting stress tests of banks to determine how much more capital each will need. Roubini said once those were completed it will be evident that some banks will need to be taken over and have their good and bad assets separated before being returned to the private sector.

Geithner’s Plan

Critics of Geithner’s plan including Krugman, a professor at Princeton University, say the government should take over banks loaded with devalued assets, remove their top management, and dispose of the toxic securities. Sweden adopted the temporary nationalization approach in the 1990s.

Roubini, who also runs his own economics consultancy, estimates a total of $3.6 trillion of loan and securities losses in the U.S., including writedowns on $10.84 trillion of securities and losses on a total of $12.37 trillion of unsecuritized loans.

With “deflationary forces” lingering for as long as three years, Roubini said U.S. government bond yields were going to remain relatively low and that American house prices would fall as much as 20 percent more in the next 18 months. While the dollar will benefit as investors seek safe havens, it will ultimately decline as the U.S. trade deficit has to shrink, he said.

The need for governments to issue more public debt to fund stimulus and bank-rescue packages risked more downgrades to sovereign debt and the failure of more government auctions as happened in the U.K. yesterday, Roubini said.


Administration unveils financial system overhaul



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Mike 03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-28-09 10:10 PM
Response to Original message
1. I don't know anymore, but my gut reaction is that
Grieder is a dinosaur, and that Roubini is on the right track, but that his insight won't become obviously right until a few months into the future.

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Mike 03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-28-09 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
2. Your post is stimulating and it deserves a better response than I could come up with.
Hopefully others will do better.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-28-09 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. No takers yet. n/t
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lxlxlxl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-28-09 10:14 PM
Response to Original message
3. reconcile what exactly?
i dont see anything directly contradictory
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-28-09 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Really?
"consecrating too big to fail" doesn't contradict "once those were completed it will be evident that some banks will need to be taken over and have their good and bad assets separated"?

Really?

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many a good man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. I agree - no direct contradiction
Roubini is merely restating Geithner's plan - "Depending on the circumstances, the FDIC and the Treasury would place the firm into conservatorship with the aim of returning it to private hands" - and predicting what will happen to the economy afterwards.

Geithner's plan is place banks into conservatorship only as a last resort and return it to the private sector as soon as possible - after cleaning them up. Geithner also wants to restore the old regulatory framework - not institute major reshaping of the financial sector.

Greider thinks we need to a lot further. He thinks we cannot allow any financial institution to get so large it can influence national policy. We need to break them up so we can go back to making money based on production instead of financial games. This would require changes that go beyond the old New Deal reforms.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. "Geithner also wants to restore the old regulatory framework " That's not correct.
There isn't any current regulation to seize the assets of these companies. This is something the plan addresses.

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many a good man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Receivership was always a possibility
Receivership or conservatorship is nothing new. The federal government always had that ability and it has used it in the past. The fact that we haven't underscores Greider's point that these Masters of the Universe play by different rules. They think they own government and it sure looks that way. It should have been done yet it still hasn't. Now Geithner is threatening to do something he's always had the power to do. We'll believe it when we see it.
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lxlxlxl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. different approaches to the issue (social vs technical)
think of roubini as a technician. he isnt interested in the morality or the overal social value of these firms (although he has spoken up on that before). In this instance he is talking in plainly technical terms, and as far as bank failures go, he is not specifically talking about the 'big' banks we are all fixated on. he is not going to say specific names of course.

the other writer is taking the broader view about what we are doing as a society in terms of using finite resources...

im a shitty writer when it comes to these topics, but i can try to be clearer
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. No, the specific discussion is about too big to fail.
Banks on the verge of failure are nationalized and re-privatized all the time. There is no such formal procedure for dealing with these larger institutions that are not simply banks. The stress test is specific to the big institutions, and the regulatory reform addresses legislation to extend the authority to seize these institutions.

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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. While we're separating assets...
why can't we break up conglomerates in the same process?

That would reconcile Grieder's point.
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
8. My gut tells me...
That we need to follow the lead of Theodore Roosevelt and start busting the trusts. If they are too big to fail, they are too big to exist. I agree with the "dinosaur", William Greider, I suppose? History teaches us lessons if we are prepared to listen. We need to break up these huge investment banks into smaller banks. Step one would be to restore the regulations that were dismantled under Clinton and Bush and the political Parties in Washington. Our political system failed us. That caused our financial system to fail us. Ideology trumped common sense and the lessons of history.
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. My gut agrees. nt
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PM Martin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 03:21 PM
Response to Original message
14. AIG/Citi/BOA may have to be nationalized.
AIG may have to sink at this point.
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