The way GM and Chrysler are being treated by the Obama Administration is giving me pause

[DainBramaged]

in regards to my support. I am very unhappy and disappointed with the favoritism shown to the Financial industry, and the crap they are shoveling towards us the middle class who work with their hands. With the CEO and virtually the entire board at GM replaced, no one here can now say "fire the management", they are gone, yet the CEO's of BOA, AIG, Citibank, Chase are still in place with their billions is rescue money.

The Unions around the country realize this, and if the UAW is damaged or destroyed by a forced GM bankruptcy, I am positive Obama will lose the support of millions of Union members in the next four years, along with the stooges in Congress who went along with this fiasco.

I am just angry beyond words over this. We didn't deserve to be treated like scum, but I guess the true colors of Obama are showing.

That's all I have to say.

[GoesTo11]

1. The true colors of Obama are showing

You've figured out his scheme. He's all in favor of the rich elite and has always been.

Thank you.

[Schema Thing]

2. Your desire to "make same" the financial and auto sectors is like

Fox channel's version of "fair and balanced".

I'm glad the administration is dealing with with reality, as opposed to being faux "fair and balanced".

[JerseygirlCT]

6. My thought

is that the danger of allowing some of these financial institutions to go bankrupt is that the impact would be felt far and wide - reaching into all sorts of other industries, and into individual's pocketbooks, as well.

GM or Chrysler - wouldn't be good, would impact a great number of people - which isn't good, of course. But, the impact would be limited to that industry and the ones that support it (like auto parts, etc.).

I really don't think this is favoritism for the white collar workers on the administration's part. Their job is to look at the situation without allowing emotions to control decisions. It's hard, it's cold - no doubt. But it may be what we need right now.

[notadmblnd]

7. if you think the effects are limited to the car industry.. you better think again.

The steel industry, the computer industry (IBM EDS), the tire industry, health care industry and fast food industries will all be affected. Hope your job doesn't relate to any of those as you could br crying next.

[JerseygirlCT]

10. For a bit, yes.

But there ARE other cars being assembled here in the US. The big 3 are not the only games in town anymore. So I imagine that things would level out again.

OTOH, every bank/financial institution has tentacles in many, many others. And they in others. It's one big interwoven mess - that would likely reach into every corner of our economy. That's a far wider scope than the auto industry has.

[mbperrin]

14. The other automakers will be impacted as well. Toyota supports GM

getting help. They use common suppliers,which won't survive GM's demise. Their options: import parts from Japan and assemble here, or just import whole cars from Japan. Option 2 would make them much more popular at home.

We survived the bank bustups of the 80s with little consequence. We'll do so again. Most of these "losses" are imaginary gambling losses and imaginary "gains" to the winners. Since that money never existed, thanks to naked transactions, it cannot be lost or gained. So no pain.

My choice? The same as Adam Smith, the father of economics, who pointed out that production is the source of any nation's wealth. Let the banks and financiers go. Main losers? Fat ass whiners who won't get their casino bets covered by outsiders any more.

I won't miss them.

We call a country where all the employers are located in other countries a colony. Not ready to do that, either.

[Kalyke]

15. But the other cars are crap.

I'm sorry - I will NEVER give my hard-earned dollars to buy a rice burner or a kraut rocket.

Yes - I meant to be insensitive, not to the people of Asia or Germany, but to the crap-for-cars they're shoving down my throat. I. Don't. Like. Nor. Want. To. Buy. A. Foreign. Car. PERIOD.

I want my Ford. I want a UAW-made product - made by Americans AND with the PROFITS residing squarely in America. I also want manufacturing here because, if we ever get into another world war, if you think Toyotie and Hondooy are going to let you use their factories to make weaponry, then I've got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell ya.

[hamsterjill]

33. Me, too!

In my case, I drive GM. I've had at least 10 cars made by General Motors, all of which I've driven the hell out of, and all of which have been good products. In fact, GREAT products.

I don't know anyone personally who's had issues with any GM product, although I hear that from some people on this board, and I'm not disputing their claims.

But I (myself) refuse to buy a foreign car.

[JerseygirlCT]

34. Which is just fine. I'd make a different choice

Having driven enough crap Fords to stay far away until they prove to me (and yes, it works that way around) that they can make good cars again.

[Statistical]

40. If we get in another major war you won't have a factory to build any weapons from.

Opening hours of a major conflict both sides destroy the others sides means of production.

It is cheap, it is easy, it insane NOT to do so.

It is like playing poker except both sides start with the hands they accumulated over their lifetime and the first step of the game is to burn the deck.

Our strategic plan is no different than Russia, or China. Use long range assets to destroy high value targets within hours. ICBM coming over the pole at 8x the speed of sound simply can not be stopped.

In the 50+ years since WWII our ability to destroy infrastructure has gone up by a magnitude. Sadly nobody has figured out a way to protect it.

Of course all that ignores the fact that any future way large enough to exaust our war supplies likely is a nuclear exchange anyways.

[notadmblnd]

16. Okaaaay... don't say you wern't warned.

[leftofthedial]

21. They'll level out once that nasty union is busted for good.

[amandabeech]

27. And you call yourself a leftist?

Please.

[leftofthedial]

46. :sarcasm:

I keep forgetting the smilie, thinking it's obvious.

[amandabeech]

25. And when the chips are down, and we go to war again,

will the President be able to call in the heads of Honda and Toyota and tell them that they'll be making Army trucks and tanks until the war is over?

I don't think so.

Global supply only works in the good times, just like mortgage-backed securities and credit default swaps.

The financial folks who produced and sold these things didn't want to consider what would happen if the economy went really sour because then they wouldn't be able to make as much money. They resisted regulation, aided by Obama's advisers Geithner, Summers and Gensler, which would have let a regulator consider the viability of these poisonous products.

The economy tanked, and we know what happened to the financial products.

Many of the same people who wouldn't look at the downside of mortgage-backed securities and credit default swaps are telling us that we'll always be able to get our needs met by companies from all over the world, no matter what happens. Always. So we never have to think about doing anything for ourselves here. In other words, today's world will go on forever.

It never has. Remember what happened when the Middle East oil producers shut us off in the 1970s? Why is it that we always want to produce our own energy here? Is it because we were cut off and it could happen again?

Why doesn't that same logic pertain here? Why should we trust China so much more than we trust Saudi Arabia? I can't see one but you can, please let me know.

If we have a problem and can't get the supplies that we need for basic living or for defending ourselves, I'll come looking for you to solve the problem.

[ContinentalOp]

30. Some people here really scare me.

I'll tell you what, if we suddenly find ourselves in a war again that requires the mass manufacture of tanks and we can't buy them from Japan because they're suddenly no longer our ally... well, let's just say that the health of the UAW would be the least of my concerns. I'd rather make sure we don't find ourselves in that situation thank you very much.

[amandabeech]

36. I don't want to go to war again, either.

I would rather spend some money now and upset the globalism apple cart, and not be sorry later.

[ContinentalOp]

38. Look, we're not going to ever be in that situation again.

If we are, forget about it, human life on Earth is OVER. The idea that we need to keep domestic auto manufacturing alive for strategic military reasons is silly paranoia. We need the jobs and that's it.

[amandabeech]

42. Read a little history. We've had plenty of wars since WWII and no one's dropped the bomb.

We can still have a war that could get nasty enough to disrupt our supply without any nukes because no one wants to go that far, not even the Russians.

Were you around during the '70s? Do you remember the oil embargo? There were NO SHOTS FIRED BY US and NO NUKES USED. We were too nice to Israel and too nasty to Iran. That's all it took.

You're living in la-la land.

And yeah, our citizens need jobs in order for us to have a decent society and continued political calm. Lots of people with no jobs and no hope do not just sit around forever, you know. Ask the Russians and the Chinese.

[DainBramaged]

43. Plastics, exotic metals, paint, leather and cloth, glass

3,000,000+ people out on waivers if Obama decides to tank GM and Chrysler.

[Rabrrrrrr]

22. Plus the auto-maker's assets are real, physical capital - factories that can be bought

and material that can be bought and used by other companies.

And they will be bought.

If the automakers stop making cars, there will be a great big hole in supply, and someone will come along, with a bright wonderful idea, and fill that hole.

That can't happen with the financial industry - there's really nothing to buy, except the skills (such as they are) of the workers, and some balance sheets, and maybe a few office buildings.

[Chisox08]

35. If you believe that the loss of GM, Ford or Chrystler would only hurt

those that work in the auto industry you are dead wrong. Not only will people who work in the auto industry would lose their jobs but the businesses in the surrounding communities would go out of business. The big chain stores would move leaving behind an economically devastated community. Look at Detriot, Flint and many other towns and cities that was built around the auto industry. The closure of those plants not only affected the workers in those plants it devastated those cities.

[HughMoran]

47. The difference in SCALE is what has been preventing me from equating the two as well

It's easy to hate the money grubbers, and just as easy to feel empathy towards the auto-companies, but they are in no way comparable in the economic sense. I don't expect anybody to agree with you or me, but at least we can get some satisfaction in knowing that we are using our heads and not our hearts here.

[Dawgs]

3. Instead of crapping on Obama, why don't you tell us what he should do for the auto makers?

:shrug:

[Kokonoe]

9. Bringing down wages is what he should not do.

So, he should not union bust the UAW.

[notadmblnd]

20. I would like to see them given the money and it be used to create jobs

The higher number of people that work means that more people are contributing to the tax base. It also enable them to buy things. Things like new cars.

[bottomtheweaver]

50. How about what he did for AIG? And BofA, GS, Citibank,

and all the other parasites?

[jpak]

4. Ummm...it was Bush and Paulsen that made the mess on Wall Street

They were the ones that made up the rules for TARP.

They were the ones that fucked over Main Street.

Obama inherited that mess and BushCo made damned sure that Obama could do little to fix it.

You concern is misplaced...

[amandabeech]

28. Geithner, as head of the New York Federal Reserve, was right in there helping them.

Don't let him off the hook.

Instead, ask him what he's doing to help Obama deal FAIRLY with the economic crisis.

Obama is getting advice from someone who made things worse right from the get go.

Oh, yes, and when the idea came up in the late 90's to regulate these poison bank products, who do you think convinced Clinton to say no?

Summers, Glesner (head of the CFTC) and Geithner. How about them apples.

Let fault fall where it may.

[jpak]

32. Yes - Obama only pawn in game of Geithner...

:evilgrin:

[amandabeech]

37. Well, yeah. Same smilie right back at ya.

[DonCoquixote]

5. I can agree that aig is being coddled, BUT

Apparently a lot of people do not realize that GM and Chrysler WANT to do bankruptcy, and all giving them "loans" will do is give them the chance to make a slightly bigger golden parachute before they sell off to the Chinese, which is what they WANT TO DO. The "pro-union" folks are actually helping the same CEOS get away with stealing more money, especially when they defend turds like Wagoner. That "money to the middle class" you want will just buy GM time to sell you off to China, and you will barely see any of it! If anything, we should be buying their stock outright, and nationalize them temporarily, as Michael Moore has suggested.

Oh, and I suppose Mitt Romney will treat you better, right?

[Obamanaut]

8. This seems like quite a departure from a few short days ago when

any criticism of Obama policies were put down as heresy. What's up with that?

[Kolesar]

11. Obama is helping people overseas who partnered with the banksters and bought junk

Obama and Geitner are just buying time and putting off the eventual reckoning. Purchasers of this junk are going to have to take a partial loss on their stupid investments.

[flyarm]

12. and then there is this..........

ahhh this ought to warm a few of the hearts of US Union workers!!


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7428952.stm

Ford to open new plant in Mexico


US giant Ford is to invest $3bn (£1.5bn) in a new car plant in Mexico, the biggest investment in the country's manufacturing sector.

The move is a blow to American car workers who had hoped the factory would be built in the United States.

Ford has lost more than $15bn (£7.5bn) over the past two years and says the new facility is crucial to its future.

Mexican President Felipe Calderon hailed the announcement as a "turning point" for his country.

The new factory, and other changes to Ford's Mexican operations, are likely to create an estimated 4,500 jobs in Mexico, where car workers earn substantially less than their American counterparts.

Mr Calderon made the announcement with Ford president Alan Mullaly at the presidential compound in Mexico City on Friday. "We want Mexico to be an automotive country, one that is competitive and with the most advantages so that the worldwide automotive industry will establish itself here," Mr Calderon said.

Mr Mullaly said: "We are convinced the geographic location as well as Mexico's highly qualified labour force and economic stability make this decision the right one for our business."

.........................................

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

TIMOTHY GEITHNER

Biography

Early life and education
Geithner was born in Brooklyn, New York.<2> He spent most of his childhood living outside the United States, including present-day Zimbabwe, Zambia, India and Thailand, where he completed high school at International School Bangkok.<3> He then attended Dartmouth College, graduating with a B.A. in government and Asian studies in 1983.<4> He earned an M.A. in international economics and East Asian studies from Johns Hopkins University's School of Advanced International Studies in 1985.<4><5> He has studied Chinese<4> and Japanese.<6>

Geithner's paternal grandfather, Paul Herman Geithner (1902–1972), emigrated with his parents from the German town of Zeulenroda to Philadelphia, Pennsylvania in 1908.<7> His father, Peter F. Geithner, is the director of the Asia program at the Ford Foundation in New York. During the early 1980s, Peter Geithner oversaw the Ford Foundation's microfinance programs in Indonesia being developed by S. Ann Dunham-Soetoro, President Barack Obama's mother, and they met in person at least once.<8> Timothy Geithner's mother, Deborah Moore Geithner, is a pianist and piano teacher in Larchmont, New York where his parents currently reside. Geithner's maternal grandfather, Charles F. Moore, was an adviser to President Dwight D. Eisenhower and served as a vice president of Ford Motor Company.

Early career

After completing his studies, Geithner worked for Kissinger and Associates in Washington, D.C., for three years and then joined the International Affairs division of the U.S. Treasury Department in 1988. He went on to serve as an attaché at the US Embassy in Tokyo. He was deputy assistant secretary for international monetary and financial policy (1995–1996), senior deputy assistant secretary for international affairs (1996-1997), assistant secretary for international affairs (1997–1998).<5>

He was Under Secretary of the Treasury for International Affairs (1998–2001) under Treasury Secretaries Robert Rubin and Lawrence Summers.<5> Summers was his mentor,<10><11> but other sources call him a Rubin protégé.<11><12><13>

In 2002 he left the Treasury to join the Council on Foreign Relations as a Senior Fellow in the International Economics department.<14> He was director of the Policy Development and Review Department (2001-2003) at the International Monetary Fund.<5>
In October 2003, he was named president of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York.<15> His salary in 2007 was $398,200.<16> Once at the New York Fed, he became Vice Chairman of the Federal Open Market Committee component. In 2006, he also became a member of the Washington-based financial advisory body, the Group of Thirty.<17>


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I just wonder how those auto workers feel, about Obama's amusement and his chuckle about the auto industry ..on 60 minutes last week?????

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

13. If not for Obama, you'd already be out of a job.

You're biting the hand that feeds you.

[ContinentalOp]

17. What favoritism has he shown the Financial industry?

The TARP funds were allocated before he took office.

AIG's CEO was fired toward the end of last year. Citibank's CEO resigned in November. Both Chase and BofA say they didn't need the money and will begin to pay it back this year (BofA) or next (Chase).

Even if we give GM all of the money they're asking for they're going to fire at least 47,000 workers.
http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1880272,00.html

And they will just be back for more money a few months later as they have shown no clear plan for how they're going to avoid bankruptcy (other than continuing to shut down plants and fire more workers).

What's the obvious winning solution here that Obama is missing?

[MadBadger]

18. +1

[Spike89]

19. Mid game critique, in my opinion

I think there are some quite huge differences in the industries (obviously) and it makes sense to treat them differently. I fully expect Obama and congress to drop a few hammers on the financial industry once the emergency in credit has lessened. I think at the very least a new Glass-Steagal act will be enacted before the year is out. I wouldn't be surprised if they go far beyond that over the course of Obama'a first term. Stronger regulation is needed and it is much more punitive (deservedly so) toward the financial industry than this act against GM. It's all about timing and it just isn't the time quite yet to stop triage of the banking industry. Now, of course, if financial reform doesn't ever happen, I'll join you in being ticked off.

[sendero]

45. Reform is not enough....

.... bailing out the malefactors is not acceptable.

[8 track mind]

23. i still have faith in the guy

I truly wish Obama would say something about his plans for the auto industry.


This is all speculation of course, but i think the main plan is to get the credit flowing again. If credit was completely shut off, then we would be in really deep shit. Once that's stabilized then he will come down hard on them with regulations and firings. It just seems to me that Obama wouldn't do anything to truly harm the unions. If he did it would be the biggest act of political suicide in the history of the world. The UAW has already made enough concessions and he has to realize that. Now it's time for the CEO's to step up to the plate and act responsibly and i'm hoping that's what Obama has in mind. I have to wonder what was in the restructuring plan with GM and Chrysler that didn't set well with the Govt?

I'm trying to be optimistic here.......

[FrenchieCat]

24. Calling the game in a middle of a play is a foul.

It is only the top of the 1st inning. :eyes:


Wagoner's exit puts BofA CEO Lewis in hotseat

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Bank of America Corp Chief Executive Kenneth Lewis may be the next corporate boss to feel the heat after the administration forced General Motors Corp Chief Executive Rick Wagoner to resign in return for further government assistance.

The second-largest U.S. bank has received $45 billion from the government, making it one of the biggest recipients of government bailout money in the banking system.

Big shareholders have been calling for Lewis to step down since Bank of America announced in January it took a $20 billion government bailout to secure the acquisition of troubled Merrill Lynch & Co, which lost almost $16 billion in the last quarter of 2008.

The government may now add to the pressure from shareholders, analysts said. The sudden departure of Wagoner after nine years in the top job at GM signals the Obama administration is looking for management changes at bailed-out companies.

"His longevity in the job is probably very much in question," said Keith Wirtz, chief investment officer of Fifth Third Asset Management and a former CIO at a Bank of America subsidiary. Fifth Third holds shares in the bank.

more
http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE52T6DP20090330?pageNumber=1&virtualBrandChannel=10112


Inside the Obama-Bank CEO Meeting
By Rob Blackwell
March 30, 2009

As bank chief executives left the White House Friday after a roughly 90-minute meeting with President Obama, they presented a united front to the media horde outside.

But inside the meeting, which was held in the state dining room, it was clear the CEOs took different approaches. The bluntest was from Ken Lewis, the chief executive of Bank of America Corp.

"Mr. President, I am not going to suck up to Larry and Tim like the rest of these guys," Lewis said, according to sources in the meeting. Lewis was referring to Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner, and Lawrence Summers, the head of the National Economic Council, who also attended.

Obama laughed along with the rest of the CEOs, before listening to Lewis get to his point: he wants to pay back Troubled Asset Relief Program funds.

And he was not the only one.

Jamie Dimon, the CEO of JPMorgan Chase & Co., arrived with check in hand to give to Geithner before the meeting started, according to the participant. Geithner took the check briefly to examine it before handing it back. (The check was fake).

Dimon tried again later during the meeting, telling the president he would like to give back his $25 billion in Tarp money.

The overall tone of the meeting was cordial, participants said, with no raised voices or significant tension. Obama's message was essentially one of mutual dependence: we need you, and you need us.

"My administration is the only thing between you and the pitchforks," Obama said.

Still, Lewis complained that all institutions were being tarred with the same brush, saying policymakers should better distinguish between commercial bankers and investment bankers.

But Obama had a rejoinder to that, saying the industry essentially brought that problem upon itself. He offered to call Sen. Byron Dorgan and ask him to re-establish the Glass-Steagall Act, which was repealed a decade ago. The law put barriers between commercial and investment banks.
http://www.bankinvestmentconsultant.com/news/-2661449-1.html

--------------------------------

Below, some of our folks's sentiments here, at DU....

[B o d i]

48. How about calling a foul in the middle of a game? That's fair play, right?

http://www.worldtrans.org/pos/infinitegames.html

[specimenfred1984]

26. Why go after criminals? Let's just "move forward" and give the criminals billions

Forget war crimes too, let's fire the CEO of GM instead.

[amandabeech]

29. Sounds good to me! n't

[pacalo]

31. I agree. Is it any more obvious that the favoritism has to do with Wall Street's

ability to fork over substantial campaign contributions?

[ogneopasno]

39. I agree. I've been disappointed so far and the last few days have really made me shake my head.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

41. And you want him to do what exactly?

Put Malia and Sasha to work designing the ultimate Honda Civic killer between Hannah Montana and bedtime?

Send B-52's to carpet bomb Honda and Toyota's US factories?

Give Bob Lutz the keys to Fort Knox?

[OhioChick]

44. I hear you...

The tech sector isn't too happy with him regarding his new outsourcing stance, either.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x436641

[bottomtheweaver]

49. It's kind of frightening.

By all appearances it's a direct attack on labor. I heard just a few minutes of an interview with the new CEO, Henderson I think, on NPR, and he all but said kiss your pensions and union contracts goodbye if you want to stay alive. Then some 'analyst' got on to say basically the same thing. Really bad.

[Tarheel_Dem]

51. Ugh. More whining. Let's be honest, unions don't have the clout they

had before Reagan. And while we're at it, why would we continue to pour money into Detroit, if people still won't buy what they're making? I don't get what the unions are griping about. Because Wagoner, who's lost $85 bn was forced out? Just how long are we supposed to support an industry that gave us the Hummer, and other ridiculous vehicles?

If the Big Three have to restructure, to get its act together, then so be it.

[DainBramaged]

52. I was going to not reply to this thread, just let it run it's course

But your reply was just so dumb and uninformed (GM and Toyota had EACH approximately 19% market share in the U.S. in 2008, which would be 38% of the market of 11,000,000 vehicles, Ford had 15%, and both Toyota and GM WORLD WIDE sold about 10,000,000 cars EACH the previous year so I guess SOMEONE is buying their vehicles) that I wondered how you find your way home each night from work. And one last point. GM has about 775,000 retirees in the U.S. alone, Toyota, after THIRTY years of production here has 2500 (does that seem odd to you that ONLY 2500 people worked long enough for Toyota to retire) and if GM goes bankrupt, who guarantees their pension and health care? Toyota?


You don't get what the Unions are griping about? NEW hires at GM make $14.50 an hour, Can you say poverty wages for a family of four. And the Hummer is yet again, the only vehicle you can see in your narrow-minded viewpoint, while It's OK for the Land Cruiser, Titan, Tundra, Armada and various twin Lexus and Infinity models which get NO BETTER mileage to lumber down the highway. And what about Mercedes Benz? King of the guzzlers.


America, saturated with the blind and stupid.

[Tarheel_Dem]

54. So, your answer, in a nutshell is that we just keep pouring money into

Detroit, I guess. Oh well....good luck with that. Gotta go, need to try to find my way home again.

[BlooInBloo]

53. Concern noted.

[Vidar]

55. I supported Obama up until this. Now it looks like we've replaced

Bush's "Nazi" regime with the Obama "Vichy" government.