Would there be any interest in a DU polyamory group?

[arbusto_baboso]

There is, after all, a GLBT forum, and we polys face some of the very same kinds of issues. We would, of course have to be scrupulous about keeping it clean, and only concerned with topics about the poly lifestyle.

Anyone interested?

[Name removed]

1. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Runcible Spoon]

2. well-

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=221&topic_id=122831&mesg_id=122831

I don't know what the status on this is...

[arbusto_baboso]

3. Interesting. I was surprised that one didn't already exist.

Maybe it will soon.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

24. i asked skinner a while ago. havent heard back

[Occam Bandage]

4. I have never met a self-described poly who was not actually

an immature person with enormous commitment issues, and who did not abandon their "lifestyle" after treating unrelated mental-health issues.

n=5. Maybe that's just a statistical aberration, but right now I think it's more comparable to hikikomori than it is to being GLBT. :shrug:

[arbusto_baboso]

5. mmmmmmmkay. Thanks for playing.

Maybe next time I'll visit you where you live and repay you by crapping in your pool.

[ShareTheWoods]

6. Yeah, the same was said about homosexuals in the recent past

If one does not desire or need poly then they are not required to engage.

[arbusto_baboso]

8. Precisely.

How soon we forget, eh?

[bigwillq]

10. Hello.

Welcome to DU! :hi:

[Political Tiger]

42. Polyamory is a choice, homosexuality is not.

People should be free to love whomever and/or how many ever people they want, but polyamory has nothing whatsoever to do with homosexuality.

[kwassa]

51. Says who?

and are there polyamorous gay relationships?

[Political Tiger]

54. Please! Don't insult my intelligence!

Of course there are polyamorous gay relationships, which is the choice of those gay people involved in such relationships.

You can be gay (or straight - or bi) and be in a polyamorous relationship, a monogamous relationship or no relationship at all. A person's sexuality is not a choice, the TYPE of relationship they choose to engage in is a choice.

[kwassa]

55. I don't agree with you.

There might as be as much of a biological tendency to be in a multiple partner relationship as there is to be gay or straight or somewhere in between.

I think your distinction of choice vs. biology is a long way away from proof.

[Political Tiger]

56. Polyamory is not a form of sexual orientation.

There may well be some biological reason some people are "poly." I don't know, but either way, it differers from being gay in as it is not the sexual orientation of the person or persons involved that is the issue. Look, I don't care what kind of relationships people have, as long as it is between consenting adults. I pass no judgment against those involved in poly relationships. I say more power to ya if those involved are happy, but I don't see it as an issue of sexual orientation.

If there are enough people interested in a polyamory group, then why not, but saying because there is a GLBT group there should also be a polyamory group doesn't make sense to me. They are two different things.

[hendo]

58. Oh, honey it wasn't really cheating

I just had so much love that I had to sleep with other women.


Give it a break, it's a choice.

[Kalyke]

89. Exactly what I was thinking.

[Hanse]

67. What about bisexuals choosing a homosexual relationship?

The fact is- it doesn't matter if homosexuality, or polyamoury, is a choice, biological, or whatever.

It's still consenting adults having sex the way they want to.

It's not that polyamoury is the same as homosexuality, it's that aversion to polyamoury is the same thing as homophobia.

[JackRiddler]

69. Shhh!

Everyone must be pigeonholed or the straights get disturbed. And that gets ugly.

(And I'm not talking about sexual straights, which should be obvious, but nowadays needs to be clarified.)

[Political Tiger]

84. What about it?

To assert that any aversion to polyamory is "the same thing as homophobia" is quite a stretch! I don't see any states passing bans on polyamory. I don't see certain churches going around saying "God hates polyamorists." Kid's don't complain that something is bad by saying "that's so polyamorous." I've never heard of anyone being beaten up or killed because the were a polyamorist.

[Hanse]

96. I'm pretty sure polygamy's illegal in most states.

There's definitely a stigma, in churches an elsewhere.

[Political Tiger]

98. I thought we were talking about Polyamory?

From what I understand polyamory and polygamy are two different things.

[JackRiddler]

68. So?

What's wrong with freedom?

[Political Tiger]

82. ????

Who said anything against freedom?

[JanMichael]

94. You are correct...and so what? Boils down to the exact same

issue. It's none of your business. Period. Ever. For any reason.

[Goblinmonger]

7. Here is a major reason why I like you.

You give your sample size in your post. Nice. Gotta like someone who is true to their stats.

[uppityperson]

45. 5? you are saying this is based on 5 people?

[Chovexani]

65. Hi, nice to meet you.

:hi:

[anigbrowl]

9. I doubt it, given that there isn't a BDSM group either

[arbusto_baboso]

11. A BDSM group would be extremely narrow in its scope.

On the other hand, a poly group could discuss legal and social issues surrounding poly families.

Your answer suggests a lack of knowledge and/or tolerance on your part.

[anigbrowl]

12. Is that so

Funny you should think so, as my personal involvement with both communities goes back many years. I'm surprised you don't think there are any legal and social (not to say psychological or political) issues arising out of the BDSM lifestyle/community/whatchamacallit. You might want to review your assumptions.

[arbusto_baboso]

14. BDSM is not a "lifestyle" (whatever that means) for most of its practitioners.

If I mistakenly assumed you to be opposed to my way of life, I apologize. I'm just used to dealing with narrow-minded asshats about this on a fairly regular basis. I get a bit defensive sometimes.

[anigbrowl]

20. And yet that particular term has currency in that community (which was why I included it)

I think you are being a bit defensive. I think you'd have more luck discussing the political dimensions of being poly on a poly baord, rather than seeking validation for them here. You bring up an interesting point about the LGBT community on DU; on the other hand some people argue that their sub-forum exists to marginalize their issues (as so some people in other subforums).

You could try petitioning to set up a group. I forget the link but you can get it from the 'discuss' page.

[arbusto_baboso]

21. Well, I'm sure I could use more knowledge about the BDSM comunity.

More knowledge is always good. And yeah, I'm somewhat defensive.

But you've seen some of the responses. Just because there are idiots around doesn't mean I'm going to stop fighting for acceptance. Someone has to.

[anigbrowl]

25. Sure, I know what you mean.

[LostinVA]

29. Well, actually it IS a "lifestyle" for most people in BSDM relationships

You are showing the same sort of judgment and ignorance towards them that I'm sure YOU face from people about nyour relationships.

[arbusto_baboso]

33. You're right, and I've since realized that. My apologies.

[OwnedByFerrets]

53. Thank you for that truth! There is a reason its

called the "lifestyle" when spoken about by involved individuals.

[LostinVA]

86. I'm not in a BDSM relationship, but I know many, many people are

And they care and respect one another as much as "ordinary" couples.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

31. a lot of bdsm people have lifestyles based on it though i do think poly relationships

are very diff. in the sense when we talk about bdsm, we are talking specifics of sex and power. when we are talking poly we are still talking about relationships

[arbusto_baboso]

34. And it gets particularly complicated when things overlap...

Imagine a polyamorous gay BDSM couple? The mind boggles....:D

[Stinky The Clown]

59. Not hard to imagine when, in fact, you know such people

You can mix and match any combination and there are people who embody it.

[Marrah_G]

87. I know a number of them

[eridani]

72. That would be like having a sex toys group

--or an oral sex group. Specific arousal techniques don't have much to do with how people live their daily lives.

[fasttense]

13. How exactly is this supposed polyester group anything like

my gay brothers and sisters?

This is ridiculous. It's the same neocon argument used to compare the GLBT community to pedophiles. It's the same argument fascists and Republicons use to compare gay marriage to animal sex. There is a huge difference.

You need to quit insulting the GLBT people here.

[arbusto_baboso]

15. You need to quit insulting poly people. (edited to expand reply)

And that's my point. Poly people are not like the mormon fundie polygamists in the Texas compound. We're all over the place, and there's probably at least one poly family within a mile of you if you live in any major metropolitan area.

And while we hold good jobs and raise normal children, we're called deviates, mental moral and emotional defectives and we "threaten the fabric of society".

So, my comparison to gays and lesbians is an insult? Only if you're a complete clueless idiot.

[FreeState]

30. Im GLBT and not insulted - I support all consenting adults in their relationships

the reality of it all is that Polly families do face many of the same injustices and inequality that GLBT Americans face.

Thinks like:

Hospital Visitation
Adoption
Foreign Spouses being kicked out of the country because their relationship is not recognized
Taxation on their spouses insurance


and there are many many more.

[arbusto_baboso]

35. Thank you! I've found most GLBT indiduals see the bigger picture here...

Being on the bad end of things for so long gives one more empathy for other who face similar things.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[blogslut]

17. The possibility of a sex-positive forum has been discussed

But I have expressed the opinion that moderating it would be a monumental task: Immature responses. People assuming it's a sex chat. The flame wars...

[arbusto_baboso]

18. Yes, unfortunately. Like some of the responses I've received on this thread.

I don't understand people who are so supportive of LGBTs, yet assume people like me have something wrong with us. Then they have such a broken irony meter that they even get offended by my comparisons!

Shit. Americans are some fucked-up, repressed, puritanical morons sometimes.

Guess I should just go back in my closet, eh? Apparently we have to keep someone there, if not the gays and lesbians...

[Runcible Spoon]

36. I wouldn't call the particular detractors on this thread GLBT supportive.

That's been established.

[blogslut]

38. As I told the DUer who suggested the forum

I will support it. I will vote to support it. I will occasionally post in it. However, I will not volunteer to moderate it because I am very lazy. :)

[JackRiddler]

70. What's wrong with a bit of sex chat?

You'd think someone named blogslut wouldn't mind.

(Please. Friendly. Peace.)

[blogslut]

81. I don't mind

I'm not talking about a forum that discusses sex. I'm talking about clueless people confusing the forum for one where they're free to have cybersex. I am for those forums as well. I just don't think DU is that place.

Like I said, I am all for a sex-positive forum, I just wouldn't want to moderate it as I think there would be many unforseen problems in such a forum: Spammers. Harrasment of forum members. Constant flame wars...

You do know what I do for a living don't you?

[JackRiddler]

83. Okay!

Now I know what you do for a living.

Rock on, sister!

[leftofthedial]

19. poly want a forum?

Awwwk!

[Fire1]

22. What IS it?????

:shrug:

[arbusto_baboso]

27. Google is your friend. But the short answer is...

It refers to relationships with more than 2 people, and/or "open" relationships in one form or another. It also implies emotional attachments to more than one other person. And it's all above-board and consensual.

[Fire1]

32. Thanks. I googled AFTER I asked. My bad.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

23. i think my sexual minoritites forum was a good idea. however i havent heard back from skinner

and yes, polyamorous people woudl be part of said forum

[arbusto_baboso]

26. Good. I added my note on your thread where you inquired about such a group.

You'd have my whole-hearted endorsement and participation.

[Runcible Spoon]

37. Poke Skinner again.

I'll also PM him.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Runcible Spoon]

40. I'm sorry you feel threatened by how consenting adults conduct their lives.

Enjoy your stay.

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Texasgal]

43. Really?

Are you serious?

Do you honestly equate sexual freedom with murder?

Wait... suicide assistance? REALLY?

[Badlands Democrat]

44. Murder/suicide - the person would want to die.

And I would want to kill them. You see, it's two consenting adults doing what they want. Anything goes, right? How would a murder/suicide group be any different from this thread's topic?

:sarcasm:

[Texasgal]

48. Very different.

No one dies.

Consenting adults do what they want sexually. No one is hurting anyone, no one dies.

Assisted suicide is a completely different topic, one that I have no opinion on. If you need that topic, start a thread.

Sex and what people do in their own bedrooms? None of my business.

Why should it be yours?

[Badlands Democrat]

49. It would be a painless suicide.

Think of a Jack Kevorkian who really enjoys his job. Two consenting adults getting what they want, with out the interference of others: how is that any different than this sexual situation?

[Texasgal]

50. The difference?

No one dies??? Hello?

[Stinky The Clown]

60. He's yanking your chain ...... let it go

[JackRiddler]

77. Hmm, it occurs to me that he (she?) is also probably like, 14 years old.

Right. Calm down. Breathe in, breathe out.

[Ghost in the Machine]

57. Was *your* suicide painless??

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=user_profiles&u_id=238787

Adios muchacho!

[JackRiddler]

76. Wow. Just wow.

[LynnTheDem]

62. WTF???!

Ya REALLY can't see the difference???

I'm not poly or gay or bi...yet I have no problem whatsofuckingever seeing the very vast difference between your silly strawman bullshit and polyamory.

[uppityperson]

47. I think is equating sex with ending a life regarding "acceptable". For some odd reason

what you do sexually between consenting adults is the same as ending a life, as far as being "acceptable"?

I would write what I think about that poster, but it would not be nice.

[JackRiddler]

74. Wow.

That's a hell of an analogy there. Very sorry about your emotional and sexual issues, and sure glad I don't know you!

Guess it doesn't come as a surprise in a society where even incidental nipples or acts of love are verboten in a PG movie, but it's okay for the hero to hack up 200 screaming Ay-rabs in the process of establishing law and order.

(Indirectly it also casts the recent foreskin-hackers thread in a new, sex-hating light. But never mind.)

[Marrah_G]

88. omg- you did not just compare poly to murder..........

[salin]

46. I will acknowledge lack of familiarity

but the two groups of polyamorous groups I have known ended very badly. These turned out not to be mutual, but a couple in which one member feared losing the other if she/he did not go along with the arrangement. The eventual splits were very ugly and painful - especially for the initial partner who initially agreed to the relationship in order to try to save the initial relationship, but really were not at one with the 'new' relationship.

I do not condemn other adults per how they conduct their lives. However in my limited experience, this arrangement is not always consensual. I would guess it would be different if all partners agreed to the arrangement before getting in the initial relationship, rather than putting an individual into the situation of "commit to this, or loose our (married) relationship."

[Matariki]

52. Just for the record... I know quite a few people in poly relationships.

Many end eventually, not necessarily badly, but like typical modern relationships - many end.

I also know a couple of 'triads' who have been together for 25+ years - more than most couples I know. One is a woman w/ 2 husbands. They live together and sometimes date other people as well. Busiest people I have ever known and I have a tremendous amount of respect for all three of them.

Not my personal 'cup of tea' but I certainly have a lot of admiration for people who can pull that off successfully and where everyone is happy.

[eridani]

78. "Busy" is certainly right! That's why I quit when my political obsessions --

--began to take up so much time.

[Chovexani]

66. I will never understand this line of reasoning

A lot of the monogamous relationships I've known have ended badly. A good number of them were abusive or coercive in some way. By this logic, monogamy is terrible.

What you describe is not an inherent problem with polyamory, it's an inherent problem with the people getting involved. Those groups you know would have been just as miserable being monogamous (and it sounds like they were, from what you are saying).

Just FYI: "polyamorous" relationships like what you describe (one partner, usually male in a het relationship, cheats on the SO and then demands to keep the side relationship, calling it "polyamory") are not poly at all IMO. It's failed monogamy.

There's even a snarky term for it but I'll be damned if I can remember what it is at the moment.

[eridani]

79. I think you mean "nonconsensual nonmonogamy," no? n/t

[salin]

92. thoughtful response...

thankyou. I have watched alot of "couple" relationships go up in smoke due to the factors (esp coercion that your refer to.) I also recognize that an "n (sample size) of 2" is not representative of a group. You have added a third example that is counter to the two that I am familiar with. One of the two relationships is as you describe (with the male het cheating... and calling it polyamory) in a situation that appeared to be as you describe failed monogamy. The other was different - it was the wife demanding the third partner (after the marriage and without establishing before the original wedding that the relationship be open to polyamory). Indeed after typing it occurs to me that this was also a failing of a monogomous relationship (just with the female rather than the male playing the cheating role) rather than a condemnation of polyamory).

Thanks for the food for thought. And... :hi:

[JackRiddler]

71. You're right. We need to reintroduce stoning for adulterers and onanists.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

91. at the point where they are not harming others and people give consent.

[libodem]

61. .

:popcorn:

[leftstreet]

63. ..

:popcorn:

[XemaSab]

85. .

:popcorn:

[Chovexani]

64. I'd be interested in it.

There are a number of us here, but we tend to be quiet about it. Whenever I'm vocal about it, I usually get a few PMs thanking me for saying something. After seeing this thread, I'm sure you see why we're so quiet, though.

[eridani]

73. I stopped being a polyamorist in November 2000

I'm sure the connection is obvious. Still I have a lifetime of experience to discuss, and I think a group would be interesting.

[JackRiddler]

75. Bush ruined your sex life?

(I'm feeling like a fossil for even using that phrase. How is it that this country found a way back to puritan neurosis? Never mind, it's no surprise.)

[eridani]

80. Meetings and campaigning take a lot of time.

So does the extra emotional maintenance of relationships that polyamory requires. One had to go.

[formercia]

90. Already a member.

of the general public. We've been collectively screwed for generations.

[JanMichael]

93. Wife and I would be totally supportive of this on DU

we are not poly...but have a friend that is; and it's a real lifestyle choice that makes some folks happy.

I say, go for it, DU!

[iris27]

95. Absolutely...off to voice my support for the sexual minorities group too.

However we can get it done, I think it'd be worthwhile to have a place on DU for poly issues.

ETA: My partner and I are poly "in theory". We're monogamous mostly because we're both lazy hermits who don't get out much, but would not be opposed to changing that if one or both of us fell in love with someone else. I don't see why it makes perfect sense to society that you can love all your siblings if you have more than one, or all your children...but when it comes to romantic love, all bets are off - pairs only. ???

[REP]

97. Isn't that what the Lounge is for?

[1]

99. all of my relationships have always been poly...

i never knew there was a word for it.

but always on the down low, you know...

poly so that only they and i know...