Absolutely blistering NY Times....

[Aviation Pro]

...editorial. How in the hell can a Democrat co-sponsor a bill like this?

Link here: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/02/opinion/02thu1.html?_r=1&hpw=&pagewanted=print


The Forgotten Rich
The Senate budget debate began this week against a backdrop of war and recession, rising unemployment and surging foreclosures, runaway health care costs and diminishing insurance coverage — to name just a few of the nation’s big problems. But for Senator Blanche Lincoln, Democrat of Arkansas, and Senator Jon Kyl, Republican of Arizona, the most pressing issue is clear: America’s wealthiest families need help. Now.

The two senators plan to propose an amendment to deeply cut estate taxes for the fraction of the top 1 percent of the population still subject to those levies.

The proverbial millionaires next door — the plumbers, contractors and accountants who amass substantial wealth through hard work and modest living — are not the intended beneficiaries of the proposed cut. The Obama budget already takes care of them, because it retains today’s law, which imposes the estate tax only on couples with property worth more than $7 million, or individuals with property worth more than $3.5 million. That means 99.8 percent of estates will never — ever — pay a penny of estate tax.

The heirs of the remaining 0.2 percent of estates are who Ms. Lincoln and Mr. Kyl are so worried about. Their amendment would increase to $10 million the level at which the estate tax kicks in. It would also lower the top estate-tax rate to 35 percent from 45 percent.

With all the serious work before Congress, it is a colossal waste of time to have to rebut the false claims and warped premises of ardent estate-tax cutters. Ms. Lincoln’s and Mr. Kyl’s colleagues in the Senate should make short work of it and move on to urgent matters.

[LSparkle]

1. When is Lincoln up for re-election? We need a primary challenger for her

If there's a "silver lining" to this crisis, it's that
it's bringing out people's true colors ... Lincoln is
a DINO and needs to be replaced.

[babylonsister]

2. Apparently she's buddies with the Waltons. That would

explain a lot, but I agree. She's not impressing me at all.

[jmowreader]

3. I'd be willing to meet them halfway...

I'll give them the $10 million exemption. I'll even cut the rate from 45 percent to 25 percent. I just want 100 percent of anything over $25 million.

Fair enough?

[pscot]

4. Ms.Lincoln was on Cspan recently

It was a hearing of some sort. She come across as rather stupid. And to think Arkansa once sent men like William Fullbright and Dale Bumpers to the Senate.

[L0oniX]

5. LOLROTFLOL

"America’s wealthiest families need help. Now." BWAHAHAHAHAHAH

[scarletwoman]

6. Torches and pitchforks, people, torches and pitchforks. (nt)

[infidel dog]

24. I'll bring the rope.

[Robeysays]

30. I'll bring the punch and start a pool for pizza.

who's bringing the chips?

[Raster]

42. Proud member of the torch-and-pitchfork crowd!

You want the rich and powerful to stop screwing you? Than you must make them FEAR you!

Heads on Pikes!:kick:

[Buns_of_Fire]

47. I love the smell of hot tar and feathers in the morning.

Well, maybe the feathers not so much. But it's the thought that counts.:evilgrin:

[OHdem10]

7. Dino, Dino Dino as are many in our party.

[JerseygirlCT]

8. That is nuts. nt

[TahitiNut]

17. Please don't say "nuts" like it's a Bad Thing. It's offensive to us Nuts.

Thanks. :hi:

* This is a public service posting on behalf of the International Association of Fruits & Nuts, Ad Hoc DU Chapter.

:silly:

** This message may or may not reflect the opinions of 1plain1peanut, AcadamiaNut, aquanut, B3Nut, blackwalnut, bobbonutrino, bozosleftnut, bulugnut, BUSHISNUTS, butternut, butternutty, buttnutt, Canadiangunnut, capsnut, Carnut, CarNutAtl, Cash U. Nutt, CA_liberal_nut, Chanute, coconut, Coconut Buddha Ape, coconut55, CoconutMonkey, Coconuts, coconut_oil, conspiracy-nut, cybernut, darlademnut, deeznuts, DemNutz, democratinutah, deznuts, deznutts, donut, donut33, donutrevolutionary, Donuts, donutwant, econut, elvisthenut, fleabitpeanutmonkey, fluffernutter, fordnut, FruityNuts, fuzzlenutz, gaygunnut, GnomesLeftNut, grapenut1998, graphixnut, gunnut12345, HangingSaddamByHisNutsack, hangonjustaminute, hazelnut, HealthNut, Historynut, Jacknut, jakenuts, JaneDoughnut, JustFiveMoreMinutes, just_anuther_gurl, Kazznut, KnuteThingrich, KNUTSY, konominut, lastminutevoter, leftnut22, leftrightwingnut, leftwingnut, LeftyWingNut, Lefty_WingNut, Lela McNutt, Letters From A Nut, liberalgunnut, LiberalInUtah, lilpnut, Lonenut23, lonenutcracker, loosenut, Lugnut, MACanuto, madminute, MarlinNut, MilsurpNut, Minuteman, Minutes, monkeynuts6969, monolithic_juggernut, Mr Peanut, Mr. Peanut, mrpeanut, my15minutes, NONnutcase, NorthwestNut, NoToCubanRepubnuts, nsaixphnutex, numinut, Nut Grinderswitch, Nutboy, nutcake, nutcase, nutcracker420, nutcrakcer, nutgrass, nuthatch, nuthead2ub, Nutkinnews, Nutmeg, NutMeg021576, nutmeg08, Nutmeg1576, Nutmeg61, Nutmegger, NutmegJenny, NutmegYankee, nutmeg_express, Nutniks, nuton2wheels, nutone, nutria, Nutrino, NutritionFacts, Nuts, nuts101, nutsco101, nutshell2002, nutsnberries, nutsnbolts, NutterFluffer, NuttinBut, nutty left, NuttyFluffers, nuttyjake, nuttywoody, nututhissite, oaknut, omgiamgoingnuts, Opera Nut, ornanut, paolonutuni, peanut, Peanut Gallery, peanut2010, peanut3729, peanut57, peanutbrittle, PeanutButter, Peanutcat, PeanutGallery, PeanutOne, peanuts, peanutz, Permanut, pnutbutr, pnutchuck, pnutfarmer, PoliSciNut, PolitiNut, PublicHealthNut, pucknut, Racenut20, reichwingnut, somenut, soulforpeanuts, soulforpeanutz, Soynut, spacenut, Spudnuts, superbeachnut, TahitiNut, the wingnuttiest, undamynutz, Unuttymuh, videonut, walnutpie, weenut1, Wingnut19, Wingnutblogger, Wingnutsawry, wwwalnut, and yoganut

[HughMoran]

9. "it is a colossal waste of time to have to rebut the false claims"

WTF are those two knuckledraggers thinking?

[KharmaTrain]

10. And Then They Bitch About Rising Defecits...

The hypocrisy meter says:

[1776Forever]

11. Oh please! Maybe its time for "them" to have a yard sale or auction off their treasures!

We had to give up ours! Ridiculous for sure that Congress ought to take the time to debate this issue!
:nopity:

[newtothegame]

12. How bout no estate taxes for anybody, and we just spend the money we already collect more wisely??

We shouldn't need estate taxes or 90% tax rates on the rich if we didn't waste what we already collect on wars, pork, inefficiencies.

[Political Heretic]

15. Because the taxes are about more than generating revenue

First of all, the 90% tax on the top quintile that we once had, back during the largest sustained peacetime economic growth period of post-WWII, was not only about generating revenue, it was a tool to ensure that our society remained in a functional balance, and not too much wealth accumulated at the top. Societies with high income disparities between a small number of extremely rich and a huge number of not-rich have a large array of deep social problems, and tend to ultimately collapse under the weight of their own excess eventually.

Likewise, an estate tax is not just about generating revenue. It is also about making sure that we don't become an oligarchy, wherein a handful of super-elite families pass their wealth and power from generation to generation and effectively rule the state like royalty rather than participatory democracy. It is also a check and balance against excessive wealth accumulation at the top. While an individual may love the idea of making as much money has humanly imaginable, that's not actually very good for a healthy well-functioning society. One of the things government has to do is try to provide some checks and balances to ensure that inequities don't become so extreme that they cripple the entire system.

It should be pointed out, in case anyone is confused, that no one in America pays anything remotely close to 90% income tax these days. Warren Buffet pays less in taxes than his secretaries do. The average effective tax rate paid by the top income earners in America is not the list 35%; its between 7 and 11% on average - that according to the Government Accountability Offices own report. (And those numbers were from 2004 I believe). That's definitely part of the reason we find ourselves in crisis now - an unsustainable social model that gives us the highest income inequality of any nation at the worst ranks on living conditions for any industrialized country in the world.

Time to change that.

[infidel dog]

25. Thank you for the words of wisdom.

[spooky3]

36. a minor clarification

W. Buffett pays much more in taxes than his secretaries do. It was the RATE of taxation that he was referring to (income tax, payroll taxes, etc.), not the total $ amount. Since his taxable income is much higher, his total tax bill is a lot higher.

[Political Heretic]

41. Yes, yes thank you - I meant that and wasn't clear. Appreciated.

:hi:

[spooky3]

48. no probs!

:hi:

[ms liberty]

37. I wish I could rec this reply...

You've written a concise, straightforward explanation of the societal needs behind a progressive tax policy here, PH. I like it!

[TahitiNut]

18. Why should someone pay a 35% income tax on EARNED income and NOTHING on inherited income?

That's just fucking insane.

Income from one's own labor - up to 39.5% income tax rate.
Income from another person's labor - less than 25% income tax rate.
Income from the DEATH of another person - a ZERO percent tax rate up to $3.5 million.


Fucking INSANE.
:puke:

[newtothegame]

19. Right, but the dead person already paid tax on that income when they originally receieved it..

Why should it be taxed again?

[gratuitous]

21. But the person getting it wasn't taxed at all

So it's just being taxed for the very first time. Kind of a virgin tax. Yeah. "Virgin" tax. I like that for some reason.

[TahitiNut]

22. Both WRONG and Horse Shit Hypocrisy.

(1) Much of estates are UNTAXED CAPITAL GAINS ... assets held by the deceased with their basis reset at market value at the time an estate is formed. Thus, the UNREALIZED capital gains in an estate go UNTAXED.

(2) ANYTHING you pay to hire someone -- maid, gardener, etc. -- is money that YOU'VE paid income tax on. The BRAIN-DAMAGED notion that one "money" is taxed it shouldn't be taxed again betrays utter ignorance of the TRANSACTIONAL basis for taxation. Taxation occurs when money changes hand ... goes from one person to another, either as income, realized capital gains, or an estate. Even SALES TAX is transaction-based.


That imbecilic right-wing talking point betrays one of the most feeble-minded postures of all. It's riddled with both fallacies and ignorance of fact.

[Political Heretic]

32. I already answered that.

[kenfrequed]

34. Oh the irony

You use Dr King's picture as your avatar icon and you argue for insulating the wealthy?

Taxes are the price we pay to live in our society. It is as simple as that if you want a wealthy mans tax free paradise there are innumerable bannana republic dictatorships that will protect you from the great unwashed masses that want your money.

Even that old greedy bastard Carnagie was agaisnt inherited wealth. He thought it ruined people and garaunteed that greedy incompetant jerks would wind up creating a new aristocracy.

I cannot believe anyone here would honestly argue for cutting or eliminating the estate tax. You are about two words from being a Freeper.

[Telly Savalas]

39. When a consumer purchases my company's product

they pay a tax, then the company pays a tax on its revenue.

So the money that goes towards my paycheck has already been taxed twice before it makes it to me. Guess I shouldn't have to pay income taxes, eh?

[Ignis]

33. You again? (nt)

[mopinko]

13. i hope we tie this around their necks and make them wear it until you

can smell it from outer space.

[Catshrink]

14. That's my Senator Kyl looking out for his base.

He's an ass.

[MadHound]

16. Well, well, well, a quick look over at Open Secrets provides some of the answers

As to why she's doing this. Hint, WalMart, lawyers, and the financial sector are at the top of the list of those who bought, er, donated to her <http://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/summary.php?cid=N00008092&cycle=2008>

[TayTay]

20. This was her reasoning, which I have heard more from Repubs than Dems

AMENDMENT NO. 873

Mrs. LINCOLN. Mr. President, before I begin, I wish to say a word of thanks to Chairman Conrad, who has done a tremendous job providing great leadership. He and his staff have done a wonderful job reflecting the President's priorities and, more importantly, putting balance to the budget before us.

Because my time is limited, I wish to take a moment to read to you a few excerpts from an editorial that appeared in the Arkansas Democrat-Gazette earlier this year. It was submitted by a member of a family who runs a timber operation in southwest Arkansas and that has been in the family since 1907. He said:

The estate tax kills jobs. It kills companies that provide jobs. In the process it kills towns and communities, particularly those in rural areas dependent upon the land and local industry.

Five times this man's family has been subjected to the estate tax --five times.

He goes on:

Between the 1950s and 1980s, vast amounts of money--tens of millions of dollars--were raised to pay the tax . Lands were clear cut, mills liquidated, communities destroyed. .....The next hit will be too great.

Think about this type of family business. They have grown their business, reinvested in it over a century's worth of time, put almost all their profits back into it, and now this particular company employs over 1,000 Arkansans and has multiple mills that are worth a good bit of money--millions of dollars.

This amendment provides real relief to our family-owned businesses. In a time when our Government has handed out billions upon billions to failed Wall Street banks, it is time we provide a little relief to our businesses on Main Street that are in need of help right now. These are people who employ more than half the workers in Arkansas. These are the people who, if we reform the estate tax , will invest in their businesses and create more jobs.

[TahitiNut]

23. "Wahhh! Why can't I have a dynasty? Why stop me from being Emperor of Arkansas?"

The notion that enormous wealth "should" be passed on from one generation to the next, wealth derived largely from the labor of others and under the protections of the state, is an insidious notion that comes from 'royalty' and dynasties that are inherently anti-democratic. It rewards hoarding. It elevates 'monopolist' behavior to some claimed virtue. It's abhorrent.

[TayTay]

26. I would agree on that.

So, what is your counter-argument to Sen. Lincoln?

She is saying that there are some family businesses that have high valuations and that the current estate taxes force a sale in order to pay that tax. This might not be an estate in cash that is passed on, it could be land and equipment. I think she is saying that it is unfair to force someone to have to sell off the land and business in order to pay the tax on it.

There is a point there. So, how would you resolve this?

[TahitiNut]

29. There is no point there. It's a lie.

There are so many ways to structure such an estate to avoid taxes it's not even close. What's being said is that the unrealized capital gains have gotten so huge that the 'estate' has become a kind of Frankenstein's monster that has become a focus of greed and parasitism. Just WHAT gives anyone the notion that some PROPERTY becomes somehow sacrosanct and immune to recapitalization?

This is just a claim of "too big to be taxed" -- it's bullshit.

[TayTay]

31. So she is echoing the RW talking points about the "death tax"

that was used in the past to such great affect. It is more than possibly to preserve a business without having to resort to extreme measures to raise "tens of millions of dollars" in order to hand down an estate, particularly a family farm or small business.

(The tens of millions of dollars cited in her Senate floor remarks got to me. That seems to me to negate her point. If you can raise tens of millions, then you are not exactly banging on the poorhouse door here.)

[infidel dog]

27. Oh. Jeezus, I'm supposed to feel sympathy for a clan of land rapists.

Yeah, my heart is bleeding all over the keyboard as I type. Those nasty old taxes FORCED the poor timber company to clearcut all those acres. Hypocritical cocksucking scum. I can't tell you how sorry I feel for the beleaguered multi-millionaire exploiters of natural resources and workers in this benighted republic. Words fail me.

[spooky3]

35. this is laughably illogical

If estate taxes were so devastating to business and employment ("the estate tax kills jobs"), how did this business survive the alleged 5 times that the estate tax was imposed, let alone - grow to the point of now employing over 1000 Arkansans?

And where is her comparison to the benefits to Arkansans or other Americans derived from the taxes collected?

[TahitiNut]

38. It's simple.

It's a freaking LIE. :shrug:

[tomm2thumbs]

28. bucking for money $$$$$$$$$$ for re-election - money talks

[Muttocracy]

40. liked this article on taxing the wealthy in NYS

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/03/nyregion/03nyc.html?scp=4&sq=paterson&st=Search

[Quantess]

43. F*'ing disgusting!

K & R

[DemBones DemBones]

44. Bring back the estate tax. $3.5 million is enough

to pass on to your heirs untaxed. If your heirs don't get the family business, it's because you were too cheap to get a good lawyer to prevent that happening when you die.

Sam Walton died when the estate tax was in effect and I haven't noticed Wal-Mart going out of business or any of the Walton family going begging, either.

(And wasn't it after Sam died that Wal-Mart started importing everything from China? I remember when one of Wal-Mart's proudest claims was that they carried goods made in the USA. No foods containing melanine, no toys painted with toxic paint.)

Old money families have done well for generations, despite paying estate taxes, capital gains taxes, and income taxes. Doing away with estate taxes and cutting tax rates for the wealthy was an idea of the "greed is good and we want it all" crowd that was running the GOP for eight years.

[NashVegas]

46. It's Way More Than Enough

The majority of the US inherits maybe a few thousand. Anything more than $100k is simply the genetic lottery. At what amount does inherited wealth, that gives nothing back to the state, stop being reasonable

[NashVegas]

45. Inherited Wealth Is Turning the US Into 17th-18th Century France

pre-revolution.