I see a lot of comments that put down Dennis Kucinich

[Stinky The Clown]

And that's okay. No one has to like him or his politics. and I am not here to defend him.

The fact that a few things he wants are unrealistic from an achievability perspective doesn't make them wrong. Just unachievable. His Department of Peace is a case in point. Ain't gunna happen. But it isn't wrong .... is it?

What is it in his politics with which you just plain disagree?

[lonestarnot]

1. I haven't heard 1 damn thing, not one!

[flvegan]

2. Disagree? Currently, nothing.

Not a damn thing.

[lostnotforgotten]

3. I Wish Obama Was More Like Dennis - Agree With Dennis On Most Everything

eom

[OhioChick]

4. Same here. n/t

[Occam Bandage]

27. If Obama were more like Dennis, then like Dennis he wouldn't have gotten more than 5% of the vote,

and the nomination would have gone to a non-Dennis like Hillary Clinton.

[lostnotforgotten]

45. Does Not Change My Opinion In The Least - So One's Comment Is Meaningless In Context

eom

[DemBones DemBones]

46. +1

[Mike 03]

5. I never see comments that put down Dennis Kucinich here at DU.

He's a smart guy. I wish he would do better when he is questioning panelists on the finance and/or oversight committees.

[slipslidingaway]

30. Kucinich to Neel Kashkari...Who are you working for?

Only a few words

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evpFtFfPWP8

[bananas]

56. You must have a lot of people on ignore. nt

[Telly Savalas]

6. What responsibilities would a Department of Peace have

that don't already fall under the purview of the State Department?

[Cid_B]

54. Here ya go...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Department_of_Peace

It's silly.. but here ya go... enjoy.

[Cant trust em]

7. I feel like Dennis Kucinich represents someone we can have in office in 2016 or 24

I just can't imagine a way that we can get directly from the Bush years to the Kucinich years. This election was hard enough with Obama in the middle.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

8. I agree with a lot of what Dennis says

I just don't think he believes what he says. Anyway, he can barely run a city, how could he be president?

[navarth]

19. What do you mean he can barely run a city

He stood up to greedy bankers in Cleveland, that's the way I heard it. Maybe you know something I don't.

[Berry Cool]

26. And the bankers called in the city's loans, put it into default and made it a national laughingstock

How about that?

Looking back, saving Muny Light was the one GOOD thing he did, but it caused tremendous humiliation and embarrassment to the city the way he did it, and he almost got recalled.

He could have done it by encouraging an open dialogue the way Obama does, but nooo, he prefers grandstanding standoffs in which it's Him, the Champion of The People, vs. The Evil Greedy Corporate Fatcats. His approach tends to look really good to far lefties, but in actuality accomplish little to nothing.

[Ikonoklast]

31. He put people that had little or no experience in positions of power.

They failed, miserably. The positions he filled with experienced people, well, they turned out to be incompetent.

He filled city posts with ideologues that had no practical experience in governance, were abrasive to subordinates, and just didn't understand the politics needed to get things done.

As mayor, he pretty much ignored the African-American community in Cleveland.

These are pretty much statements that not many in NE Ohio would disagree with. Dennis was by far a better councilman and congressman than executive.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

33. I see people already answered with what I was going to

[Mike 03]

9. Name names.

Please. Who is putting down Dennis Kucinich?

Lay it on the line, so we can all know.

[flvegan]

12. Peruse this thread.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5381004&mesg_id=5381004

You'll see a few of the regulars.

[Mike 03]

13. Thank you, Flvegan, will do! NT

[Stinky The Clown]

14. That was, in some measure, the inspiration for this thread.

[Mike 03]

15. Wow, you are right. Thanks again. NT

[Stinky The Clown]

16. Much more than that thread ......

.... and it goes back much further than the last day or three .....

These are made up quotes that I'm sure anyone paying attention will say are very representative.

"Who do you think he/she is, Dennis Kucinich?"

"Oh sure. Like Kucinich?"

"That sounds like something Kucinich would do."

[flvegan]

17. I definitely agree.

The primaries were oftentimes very high in praise of Dennis, but you saw the smattering of idiots in those threads.

That thread was just very convenient and recent to point out to the poster with the question.

[Occam Bandage]

25. Those complaints are not leveled at the merits of his policies should they be enacted.

They are, rather, leveled at the fact that Dennis Kucinich is both uniquely superb in the quality of his positions, and uniquely incompetent at translating those positions into tangible results.

He is a conscience of the party, much as Wellstone was. However, he is not a leader; leadership requires the ability to convince others to follow. No, rather than a leader, he is a gadfly. That is a valuable role as well, but not one that is interchangeable with leadership.

[Stinky The Clown]

38. I agree with your assesments of Kucinich the man

[Forkboy]

41. While I truly like DK (and voted for him twice), I fully agree with your take on him.

[No.23]

51. You've minimized the role that the corporatist media has in...[

marginalizing Dennis, it seems.

As they have marginalized every other candidate who isn't a Democrat or Republican.

Causing members of the public to conclude what yuo have concluded: that they must not be leaders, then.

Since they don't have a strong enough following.

A direct consequence of the marginalizing corporatist media.

[azul]

59. That is telling, and the scary part: The media gets to tell the narrative,

even if false, and perceived reality misbehaves. Kucinich the demonized idealist becomes a threat to the status quo.

And the scarier part is the Kucinich stands for rule of law and following the constitution, and by association....

[G_j]

10. Benjamin Rush even wanted a Dept of Peace.. nt

proposed a Peace Department for the first U.S. cabinet, under George Washington.


".As the War-Office of the United States was established in the time of peace, it is equally reasonable that a Peace-Office should be established in the time of war. -- Benjamin Rush

[Mike 03]

11. K and R, by the way. NT

[ixion]

18. Kucinich Rocks

and I'm sticking to that... :woohoo:

[iamthebandfanman]

20. what!? people are putting down a democrat!?

lol

thats what i love about people who bash DK...
they are the same people proclaiming anybody who questions obama is a freeper and not a democrat...


yet ope, there they are bashing a democrat.


oh cruel fate.


hypocrisy aint just a conservative philosophy anymore ;)

[Berry Cool]

29. I don't have to like him JUST because he's a Democrat.

Way too many people worship at his feet who adore his positions on things and completely ignore his warts, of which there are many.

[TreasonousBastard]

21. I agree with most of his positions, BUT...

he's still an asshole and will get none of them even into the debate, much less enacted.

He exists as the voice of the non-insane left, and as such has some importance, but he has absolutely no clue how to get things done.

Ultimately, the questions isn't what is right or wrong about his positions, it's about what's right or wrong about him-- it's fine for him to be the idealist, but if he can't get any of his ideas into the mainstream, then he becomes a clown.

[NeedleCast]

22. I like what Dennis Stands for

I think it's important to have people like DK in government. Don't think all of his ideas are practical though, and I think he's got a tendency to be reactionary.

[Occam Bandage]

23. His principle of voting against strong liberal legislation

if it contains a single section he finds inadequately progressive. The two most egregious are SCHIP because it didn't cover illegal immigrants, and Obama's budget because it included war funding (the inclusion of which was actually a major step towards fuller governmental transparency).

[slipslidingaway]

43. LEGAL immigrants, not illegal and Bush had vowed to veto the

the bill.

http://kucinich.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=75275

Sep 25, 2007

“I cannot support legislation which extends health coverage to some children while openly denying it to other children,” Kucinich said. “This legislation is woefully inadequate: and I will not support it.

“Legal immigrant children deserve the same quality health care as other children receive. It is Congress’ responsibility to address the main difficulties that prevent legal immigrant children from gaining access to health care. Today, we did exactly the opposite.

“HR 676 guarantees full health care coverage for all children. When considering a universal health care proposal, HR 676, the Medicare for All bill, is the only health care plan that addresses three important issues: quality, accessibility, and cost. HR 676 stands alone in an increasingly crowded field of efforts to provide health care coverage to all,” Kucinich said.

Kucinich voted for the original House-passed version of the bill because it contained language to grant health coverage for legal immigrant children. However, in today’s bill, this language was omitted."



Kucinich: “Victory for Health Care for All Children”

SCHIP Authorizes Health Care for Children of Legal Immigrants

http://kucinich.house.gov/NEWS/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=108670

"The House of Representatives today passed legislation that included a provision that would expand the State Children’s Health Insurance Program (SCHIP) to allow states to offer health care to the children of legal immigrants. Congressman Dennis Kucinich (D-OH), who fought for its inclusion in a similar bill in the previous Congress, made the following statement.

“Everyone deserves health care. This bill is a major step in the right direction. Allowing states to choose to give health care to children born outside the US but now here legally is the right thing to do. It’s right for the kids who will get better care and it’s right for the states who save money by moving routine care from the emergency room to the doctor’s office.”

When the provision was omitted from a previous version of an SCHIP reauthorization bill in 2007, Kucinich objected stating, “I cannot support legislation which extends health coverage to some children while openly denying it to other children.”

[geek tragedy]

24. I disagree with his decision to be completely ineffective

by deciding to refuse to find common ground and work with people with whom he disagrees.

That, and he talked about running for President because "an eagle needs a left wing and a right wing."

In other words, because he's a fringe figure who marginalizes himself by refusing to get his hands dirty.

[Berry Cool]

28. He's an ideological purist who would always choose to make the perfect the enemy of the good.

And the only thing that's perfect to begin with is what's perfect in HIS eyes.

There are also people who prefer to close their eyes to his race-baiting past, in which he cheerfully played on the fears of the Eastern European-origin West Siders of the largely African American East Side. It's a very easy way for a white guy to get ahead in Cleveland politics. Promise your fellow whites you will protect them from those other people.

[Occam Bandage]

34. I've heard nothing of a "race-baiting past" regarding DK. nt

[geek tragedy]

39. The article is called "King of Spin"

I can't find the whole thing, but it wasn't pretty.

[tonysam]

32. It's Less His Politics, Which Aren't Realistic and Too Much Grandstanding,

than the guy himself.

Of all of the candidates in both parties that I got to meet and greet with during the Nevada caucuses, Kucinich was the only one I took an instant dislike. All ego, the stereotypical short guy, and he couldn't have cared less about the people who drove in the snow to hear him speak, some of them from California and driving over the Sierra Nevada mountains, and meet with them after he campaigned in Reno. No, appearing on the radio was far more important than giving a shit about taking more than a couple of minutes to talk with would-be supporters. Of course Elizabeth was there, looking at him the way Nancy used to look at Ronnie. There is no accounting for taste, I thought.

Screw him and the horse he rode in on.

[DemBones DemBones]

48. So he should have dumped a scheduled radio interview

to schmooze with you? Got it.

[G_j]

61. I found the opposite

I've met him, and heard him speak. I found him to be quite accessible, and gracious to everyone.
:shrug:


plus I loved his "grandstanding" against Bush and Cheney.

[autorank]

35. Kucinich has been on target on almost every major issue n/t

[tbyg52]

36. So far, not one single thing.

So, in a perfect world, he would be Prez, with the best advisers and strategists in the world, right now.

[leeroysphitz]

37. Now I ain't tryin to put him down.

I'm just tryin to make it real.

[tbyg52]

40. Sometimes "real" sucks. nt

[snot]

42. I gave to Kucinich and will do it again.

As far as I'm aware, he's spoken truth and sense as much or more than any other member of Congress.

[Enthusiast]

52. Me too.

I will donate to Kucinich again.

[readmoreoften]

44. "Unrealistic" is anything that doesn't fill the coffers of Democratic campaigns with corporate dough

Is Single Payer Health Care REALLY "unrealistic" as far as what the people of the US want to prioritize?
Is pulling out of Iraq and not lying to the American public by merely renaming combat troops an IMPOSSIBLE concept? Yeah, I don't think so.
Is not expanding the war into Pakistan and INCREASING troops in Afghanistan something that would horrify Americans? I don't think so.
Is banning naked shorting, hedge funds, and reinstating Glass Steagall something that is "simply a pipe dream?"

I'm pretty fed up with people saying "Ce la vie" to other people having their wives, husbands, and kids blown up without any better explanation than the conceptually bankrupt "permanent war on terror."

Kucinich is one of the few Democrats left that I like. I wish there was someone more mediagenic with the same message (No, I mean someone who actually means it.)

[MadHound]

47. I agree with him on most everything. In fact unlike virtually all other Dems over the past decade

Dennis has been on the right side of the issue virtually all the time. Can't beat a record like that, yet somehow he is unelectable. I think that I know why, the powers that be don't want him as President because he isn't beholden to their interests, thus he would be free to bring about real change in this country, not just faux change, change in name only.

[Echo In Light]

49. It's easy to spot his detractors here - they're usually belligerent A-holes on any issue

Rightward dem types obviously don't like Dennis as he fits the "loony left" ideal that republicans, and their M$M, foster in the public mind.

[NashVegas]

50. Peace Doesn't Come Without Confrontation

Of some sort.

From what I can glean on their website (which isn't much, really), and my experience with the self-identified liberals/lefties who rally around Kuc and institutions that support him, the approach to getting what they want tends to look more like a group of people who attempt to bully others using reason-to-the-point-of-rationalization the same way RWers try to bully using every other kind of intimidation.

Same goal (controlling the population), different approach.

Likewise, I see DK used to shepherd liberals and lefties, again and again, only to see him turn around and deliver his followers votes to whichever clique he's cut a deal with.

We could have had a Democratic President in 2004 if we had nominated Howard Dean. I truly believe that. And I believe that Dennis' candidacy (along with Wes Clark's) was used to attack Dean from the left and split the vote so Kerry could win the primaries.

[cobalt1999]

53. Not much.

He plays the valuable role of the moral voice in congress.

As for doing the hard work of getting others to support a bill, finding compromise solutions, building a few favors, etc., the stuff any successful politician has to do, I'd say he's a failure.

Good to have him out there talking and reminding the others though.

[PeaceNikki]

55. I have issues with his ability to move issues forward in a bipartisan manner

I respect a lot of what he does. I also have serious issues with the manner in which he addresses them and trust issues with him because of his historical (not current) votes on women's issues. I have issues with the timing of his impeachment attempt last year. I take issue with his vigilante-like all-or-nothing attitude.

I don't think he's the ONLY Democratic leader worth a damn. I don't think he's the ONLY one with scruples. I don't think he's comparable to Ghandi. I don't think he should be a "saint". (Yes, I've seen these claims here on DU)

It doesn't mean I am a Republican.
It doesn't mean I am a Bush supporter.
It doesn't mean that I don't want accountability.
It doesn't mean that I support war crimes.

(Yes, I've been accused of these things because I don't worship at DK's feet)

[fascisthunter]

57. I Find most of the Criticism on Dennis is extremely Superficial

it's his populist ideology most don't like but saying so isn't going to win an argument because the man is right to stand up for the average American worker and the Constitution itself. He's a real Democrat...

[LWolf]

58. Absolutely nothing.

He is unique in that I never expected to find a politician I agreed with so completely in my lifetime.

[NikolaC]

60. I Have Liked and Respected Dennis

for a long time. I wish that there were more in public office that were like him. Things that would benefit the people of this country would get done then. It is odd to me how many people are dismissive and critical of Kucinich for his apparent honesty and constant attempts to do the right thing.