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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-04-09 04:52 PM
Original message
"Please be smarter than the Freepers. "
Lol, I was just making an OP about this same topic, but thought since this Kossack already put a great deal of effort into it...

When we read extraordinary claims that President Obama is flagrantly violating the law, as claimed by an egregious disgrace of a diary on the top of the Recommended List, we need to engage in critical thinking instead of letting our emotions take us for a fool's ride.

~snip~

The diary, channeling the frustrated rantings of has-been regulator William K. Black, accuses the Obama administration of illegal conduct.

Black, who supported the presidential campaign of Barack Obama, excoriated both President Obama, and former President Bush, and their Treasury Secretaries Timothy Geithner and Hank Paulson, respectively, for deliberately and consciously violating the law. Specifically, the Prompt Corrective Action Law, passed after the savings and loan crisis, which mandates that severely undercapitalized banks be promptly put into receivership (i.e., nationalized).


~snip~

Now, it is true that the diarist got this lie from Black himself, and may have been merely negligent in passing it on:

WILLIAM K. BLACK: Well, certainly in the financial sphere, I am. I think, first, the policies are substantively bad. Second, I think they completely lack integrity. Third, they violate the rule of law. This is being done just like Secretary Paulson did it. In violation of the law. We adopted a law after the Savings and Loan crisis, called the Prompt Corrective Action Law. And it requires them to close these institutions. And they're refusing to obey the law.

BILL MOYERS: In other words, they could have closed these banks without nationalizing them?

WILLIAM K. BLACK: Well, you do a receivership. No one -- Ronald Reagan did receiverships. Nobody called it nationalization.

BILL MOYERS: And that's a law?

WILLIAM K. BLACK: That's the law.

BILL MOYERS: So, Paulson could have done this? Geithner could do this?

WILLIAM K. BLACK: Not could. Was mandated—

BILL MOYERS: By the law.

WILLIAM K. BLACK: By the law.


Again, let me repeat. This is a lie.

And quite a lie it is. It is a lie on at least two levels.

First, the Prompt Corrective Action ("PCA") law does not give the FDIC (or OCC or Federal Reserve) the ability to take over any Bank Holding Company ("BHC"). BHC's are regulated and governed by the Federal Reserve, pursuant to The Bank Holding Act of 1956. The PCA applies to insured depository institutions, i.e. the retail bank operation as opposed to the investment bank and bond trading desk.

Amongst the financial institutions that are thus not subject to the PCA are:

JP Morgan Chase
Citigroup
Bank of America
Wells Fargo
HSBC
Goldman Sachs
Morgan Stanley

And, of course, the PCA also does not apply to AIG, which is an insurance company and not involved in banking at all. So, pretty much all of the really big players don't fall under the PCA in the first place. Their commercial banking subsidiaries very well may, but your local Bank of America branch is not at the root of this crisis. We can seize the banking units that aren't the problem, but we can't seize the banking units that are the problem.

Second, the diary is a blatantly inaccurate because it states an impossibility. What? It claims that Obama is breaking the law by not nationalizing a bunch of banks, when the language of the statute explicitly gives the government considerable discretion in deciding whether to do . The PCA does not mandate that the FDIC take over any bank .

Incredibly, the diary in question actually links to and quotes the Prompt Corrective Action Act.

TITLE 12 > CHAPTER 16 > § 1831o

§ 1831o. Prompt corrective action

(d) Provisions applicable to all institutions
(2) Management fees restricted
An insured depository institution shall pay no management fee to any person having control of that institution if, after making the payment, the institution would be undercapitalized.

SNIP

(3) Conservatorship, receivership, or other action required
(A) In general
The appropriate Federal banking agency shall, not later than 90 days after an insured depository institution becomes critically undercapitalized—

(i) appoint a receiver (or, with the concurrence of the Corporation, a conservator) for the institution;

OR

(ii) take such other action as the agency determines, with the concurrence of the Corporation, would better achieve the purpose of this section, after documenting why the action would better achieve that purpose.


~snip~
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/4/4/716470/-Why-cant-people-here-be-smarter-than-Freepers

To recap...

The Prompt Corrective Action law does NOT mandate severely under capitalized banks be put into receivership. The law (Title 12 of the US Code, chapter 16, section 1831o) grants the appropriate banking authority the power to EITHER put a "federally insured depository institution" into receivership OR come up with a plan to keep it solvent. Obama, Geithner and the Administration chose the latter.


This Law concerns "federally insured depository institutions"

AIG is a nondepository financial institution - a financial institution that funds their investment activities from the sale of securities or insurance

According to this article, Geithner recognizes that and the need for more regulation to address this, in terms of putting a major institution under conservatorship, and even points out that AIG is a non-depository financial institution:

Geithner, in prepared testimony before the U.S. House of Representatives Financial Services Committee, said Congress should approve legislation giving the government the ability to step in to put a major institution under conservatorship and avoid a damaging bankruptcy.

"As we have seen with AIG, distress at large, interconnected, non-depository financial institutions can pose systemic risks just as distress at banks can," Geithner said. "The administration proposes legislation to give the U.S. government the same basic set of tools for addressing financial distress at non-banks as it has in the bank context."


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/24/AR2009032401000.html

Lastly, consider this, from a comment at Moyers' blog:

Also note the term "federally insured depository institution." Thanks to Gramm-Leach-Bliley -- which repealed the Glass-Steagall Act and thus allowed banks to get into investment banking and insurance -- entities such as Citicorp and Bank of America (both bank holding companies and not federally insured depsitory institutions) are now so tangled up in financial dealings outside of banking, there is a real question as to whether the law covers them at all. At least, a very credible legal argument could be made that they don't; therefore, had the President done as Mr. Black suggests, there would have been an army of lawyers beating down the doors of every courthouse in America, contesting the action and seeking to enjoin any action the government might make to (in effect) nationalize these institutions. This would only have prolonged the crisis, making things much worse than they are now. And lest you think the President could just take them over anyway, google "Youngstown Sheet & Tube Supreme Court" and see what happened the last time. (And don't even think about eminent domain: The government would still have to compensate the shareholders of these giant corporations, which would prompt long legal battles over what compensation is "just" under the Fifth Amendment to the US Constitution and would probably end us up with about the same dollar figure as we're spending now.)

It appears, Mr. Moyers, you may have been had.

Posted by: John Warne | April 4, 2009 6:25 AM
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/blog/2009/04/sharing_the_blame_for_the_econ.html#comments
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-04-09 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
1. Wow, something tells me that many hidden agendas - MONEY & POWER - are linked to this topic?
:(
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-04-09 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #1
19. My agenda is to try to understand the entirety of this complicated mess
and try to understand the accusations Black made, nothing more. What are you implying exactly?
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Tangerine LaBamba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-04-09 04:57 PM
Response to Original message
2. This is interesting ........
I thought "Where's the Federal Reserve in all of this?" but didn't pay much attention, really. Something about Black's demeanor put me off, which is, I know, subjective and maybe even silly, but I've spent a lifetime with a lot of crazy people on the other side of my desk.

I wonder what will happen now ...............
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OKNancy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-04-09 04:57 PM
Response to Original message
3. Thank you for bringing that over.
It's nice to see some perspective and valid arguments, not just speculation and, well.. hysteria
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-04-09 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Censuring us to be "smarter than Freepers" is hardly what I'd term "perspective"
However, I'm going to listen to the entire interview again and then do a little research of MY OWN before further comment. tks :-)
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-04-09 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. ok, you don't like the title
but the body is quite clear.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-04-09 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. When are you going to stop harassing me cali? I've had enough - leave me be. nt.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-04-09 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. I have an answer for you.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-04-09 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. No, you follow and harass me. I want you to stop. It's immature and wrong. nt.
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-04-09 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #9
27. Stalking is against the rules here, Cali.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-05-09 05:25 AM
Response to Reply #27
40. except I'm not stalking
anyone. I don't follow people from thread to thread. And as often as not, the poster who accused me as such, posts to my comments and on MY threads.

You might want to know what you're talking about before chiming in, dear.
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OKNancy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-04-09 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #5
13. I happen to agree with the title
because there is a lot of knee-jerk reaction going on here. And I've observed the same old people who went half-cocked before Obama are doing the same thing now. Some people are just malcontents.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-04-09 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. You immediately turn people "off" with the title. I'm going to do my own checking
On the one narrow issue that you address, even if you are correct it doesn't negate the crux of Mr. Black's argument. :shrug:
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-05-09 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #17
41. How'd your own checking pan out?
:shrug:

Looking forward to hearing about what you've discovered. :hi:
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Mike 03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-04-09 04:59 PM
Response to Original message
4. This is excellent and accurate.
The PCA does not mandate an agency to do anything. It is essentially a warning system.

A little knowledge can be more dangerous than no knowledge.

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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-04-09 05:06 PM
Response to Original message
8. And their plan to keep the banks solvent? Declare toxic sludge to be 100% pure gold...
And to back that up with fake auctions where the FED (via debt we're responsible for) guarantees 85 cents on the dollar.

Great plan...:eyes:
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-04-09 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. And I see all the usual players are hyping this silly line of attack..
Edited on Sat Apr-04-09 05:14 PM by girl gone mad
to smear Black.

Maybe it's a good sign, though. Maybe they are actually worried that people are starting to realize laws are being broken in this grand theft.
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-04-09 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. And all the double-talk of bank holding companies doesn't release Geithner....
Edited on Sat Apr-04-09 05:23 PM by Junkdrawer
from his responsiblity to insure that banks are meeting their capital reserve requirements.
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-05-09 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #12
43. Call it what you want, but even Sheila C. Bair, Chairman, Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation
explained it; and Geithner wants Congress to give him and the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation clear powers to completely take over institutions such as Citigroup and Bank of America, if that becomes necessary. He's requested receivership proposal for nonbanks:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5395923&mesg_id=5395923

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Mojorabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-04-09 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. I wish I understood all of this better
I was more inclined to believe Black than internet posters on Kos but it has gotten to where I don't know who to trust for accurate info with this economic mess.
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-04-09 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. usual players? smear Black?
I'm just trying to understand it all, girl gone mad, and, after further investigation, Black's accusations against Obama, et al do not seem to pan out. That's all.
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-04-09 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #8
18. As I understand it, no one can appoint a receiver for these huge financial conglomerates.
The inability to take over a BHC is why Geithner is asking Congress for increased authority:

"This proposed legislation would fill a significant void in the current financial services regulatory structure with respect to non-bank financial institutions," Geithner said. "Implementation would be modeled on the resolution authority that the FDIC has under current law with respect to banks."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/24/AR2009032401000.html
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Mojorabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-04-09 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #18
26. Didn't some of these insitutions
apply to become banks last year?
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-04-09 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. I'm not sure, Mojorabbit
Most of this stuff is over my head! Just trying to wade through it all, find the logic amongst the hyperbole, to see how screwn we really are.
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TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-04-09 05:54 PM
Response to Original message
14. Smarter than the freepers is a pretty low bar, isn't?
I mean don't you just have to go one day in a row without pissing on your own shoes before you put them on?
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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-04-09 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #14
32. LOL....
"I mean don't you just have to go one day in a row without pissing on your own shoes"... problem is DU can't seem to manage that. :rofl:
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-04-09 06:35 PM
Response to Original message
20. And make sure to read some of the comments to the diary....
I posted some in this thread which also linked to the same the diary.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5390234&mesg_id=5390234


This is who the KOS poster has called a liar, I do not know the law well enough to make that determination.


http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/04032009/profile.html


"Biography

William K. Black, author of THE BEST WAY TO ROB A BANK IS TO OWN ONE, teached economics and law at the University of Missouri — Kansas City (UMKC). He was the Executive Director of the Institute for Fraud Prevention from 2005-2007. He has taught previously at the LBJ School of Public Affairs at the University of Texas at Austin and at Santa Clara University, where he was also the distinguished scholar in residence for insurance law and a visiting scholar at the Markkula Center for Applied Ethics.

Black was litigation director of the Federal Home Loan Bank Board, deputy director of the FSLIC, SVP and general counsel of the Federal Home Loan Bank of San Francisco, and senior deputy chief counsel, Office of Thrift Supervision. He was deputy director of the National Commission on Financial Institution Reform, Recovery and Enforcement.

Black developed the concept of "control fraud" — frauds in which the CEO or head of state uses the entity as a "weapon." Control frauds cause greater financial losses than all other forms of property crime combined. He recently helped the World Bank develop anti-corruption initiatives and served as an expert for OFHEO in its enforcement action against Fannie Mae's former senior management."









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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-04-09 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. ahh shucks..they wanted us to believe an anonymous poster at daily kos..
Edited on Sat Apr-04-09 06:58 PM by flyarm
and you ruined their party with the Incredible bio of Mr Black..

No party gift for you!!

Some of these people are in such denial that they are delusional.

The only thing I see freeperish is the op..it is the same tactics used by the Bush bunch .......

psssssssssssssss op...we are smarter .........


LETS SEE WHO Obama is hiring and who he has had representing his administration so far, shall we???????


Kissinger..shortly after Obama took office , KISSINGER WAS SENT TO RUSSIA BY OBAMA TO REPRESENT HIS ADMINISTRATION..


lets take a simple look at Geithner and Summers shall we?????



Remarks by National Security Adviser Jones at 45th Munich Conference on Security Policy

Published February 8, 2009
Speaker: James L. Jones


U.S. National Security Adviser Jones ( edit to add: new advisor hired by Obama!!!!) gave these remarks at the 45th Munich Conference on Security Policy at the Hotel Bayerischer Hof on February 8, 2009.

"Thank you for that wonderful tribute to Henry Kissinger yesterday. Congratulations. As the most recent National Security Advisor of the United States, I take my daily orders from Dr. Kissinger, filtered down through General Brent Scowcroft and Sandy Berger, who is also here. We have a chain of command in the National Security Council that exists today.


Source: http://www.cfr.org/publication/18515/remar ... ...


..............................................................


now add this ..to this>>>>>>>>>>>>
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discu ... ...


Oh Goody- Obama attempts to appoint another Goldman Sachs exec who worked with Phil Gramm

I reported back in February on the case of Gary Gensler, the former Goldman Sachs employee and derivatives cheerleader who President Obama nominated to head the Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC). Gensler’s nomination sailed through the Senate Agricultural Committee but Senator Bernie Sanders has placed a hold on the nomination (as has a second senator who is as yet unnamed). A statement from Sanders’s office said:

While Mr. Gensler is clearly an intelligent and knowledgeable person, I cannot support his nomination. Mr. Gensler worked with Sen. Phil Gramm and Alan Greenspan to exempt credit default swaps from regulation, which led to the collapse of A.I.G. and has resulted in the largest taxpayer bailout in U.S. history. He supported Gramm-Leach-Bliley, which allowed banks like Citigroup to become “too big to fail.” He worked to deregulate electronic energy trading, which led to the downfall of Enron and the spike in energy prices. At this moment in our history, we need an independent leader who will help create a new culture in the financial marketplace and move us away from the greed, recklessness and illegal behavior which has caused so much harm to our economy.
http://harpers.org/archive/2009/03/hbc-900 ...

...........................................................

this kissinger:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GThfWVCfjVo ... ://...

"There is a need for a new world order," Kissinger told PBS interviewer Charlie Rose last year, "I think that at the end of this administration, with all its turmoil, and at the beginning of the next, we might actually witness the creation of a new order – because people looking in the abyss, even in the Islamic world, have to conclude that at some point, ordered expectations must return under a different system."

.................................................

This is the Kissinger Obama sent to Russia........representing his administration..

http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/82may/he ...


Kissinger and Nixon in the White House
by Seymour M. Hersh


http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0611-0 ...


and that is just for starters!!


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discu ... ...

Larry Summers and California Energy "crisis" / Enron

During the California energy crisis of 2000, then-Treasury Secretary Larry Summers teamed with Alan Greenspan and Enron executive Kenneth Lay to lecture California Governor Gray Davis on the causes of the crisis, explaining that the problem was excessive government regulation.<8> Under the advice of Kenneth Lay, Summers urged Davis to relax California's environmental standards in order to reassure the markets.




KISSINGER WHO HAS A 40+ YEAR WORKING RELATIONSHIP WITH THE ROCKEFELLER'S, AND HAS WORKED EXTENSIVELY FOR THE SAUDI'S was sent by the Obama administration to Russia shortly after Obama took office...whyyyyyyyyyyy??????????

Geithner..who worked for Kissinger and the CFR

Geithner..who's papa Peter F.Geithner was with the Ford Foundation and Obama's mom just happened to work with him!!

Any wonder why the GM CEO was made to step down..the very day that Ford announced it was opening a plant in Mexico..the znnouncement took place at the Pres of Mexico's palace..and do not miss the very fact that the CEO of Ford said : Mr Mullaly said: "We are convinced the geographic location as well as Mexico's highly qualified labour force and economic stability make this decision the right one for our business."

That would be 4,500 jobs Americans will not get!!


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/742895 ...


A LITTLE DEEPER LOOK ..YOU WILL FIND THIS OUT..


Peter F. Geithner, is the director of the Asia program at the Ford Foundation in New York. During the early 1980s, Peter Geithner oversaw the Ford Foundation's microfinance programs in Indonesia being developed by S. Ann Dunham-Soetoro, President Barack Obama's mother, and they met in person at least once

Geithner's maternal grandfather, Charles F. Moore, was an adviser to President Dwight D. Eisenhower and served as a vice president of Ford Motor Company.



young people..please do some research on Kissinger..the man Obama sent to Russia

shortly after taking office..to represent his "NEW" administration.....

The man who's Nick Name is "THE BUTCHER OF CAMBODIA"

I will help you out a bit here..


KISSINGER.. who GWBUSH named to run the 9/11 coverup commission..he left the commission after families of 9/11 objected so loudly and angrily. ( thanks to the Jersey girls)

Kissinger's Back...As 9/11 Truth-Seeker posted by David Corn on 11/27/2002 @ 4:19pm

http://www.thenation.com/blogs/capitalgame ...


SNIP:
Asking Henry Kissinger to investigate government malfeasance or nonfeasance is akin to asking Slobodan Milosevic to investigate war crimes. Pretty damn akin, since Kissinger has been accused, with cause, of engaging in war crimes of his own. Moreover, he has been a poster-child for the worst excesses of secret government and secret warfare. Yet George W. Bush has named him to head a supposedly independent commission to investigate the nightmarish attacks of September 11, 2001, a commission intended to tell the public what went wrong on and before that day. This is a sick, black-is-white, war-is-peace joke--a cruel insult to the memory of those killed on 9/11 and a screw-you affront to any American who believes the public deserves a full accounting of government actions or lack thereof. It's as if Bush instructed his advisers to come up with the name of the person who literally would be the absolute worst choice for the post and, once they had, said, "sign him up."


SNIP:

Vietnam. Kissinger participated in a GOP plot to undermine the 1968 Paris peace talks in order to assist Richard Nixon's presidential campaign. Once in office, Nixon named Kissinger his national security adviser, and later appointed him secretary of state. As co-architect of Nixon's war in Vietnam, Kissinger oversaw the secret bombing campaign in Cambodia, an arguably illegal operation estimated to have claimed the lives of hundreds of thousands of civilians.


SNIP:

Chile. In the early 1970s, Kissinger oversaw the CIA's extensive covert campaign that assisted coup-plotters, some of whom eventually overthrew the democratically-elected government of Salvador Allende and installed the murderous military dictatorship of Augusto Pinochet. On June 8, 1976, at the height of Pinochet's repression, Kissinger had a meeting with Pinochet and behind closed doors told him that "we are sympathetic to what you are trying to do here," according to minutes of the session (which are quoted in Peter Kornbluh's forthcoming book, The Pinochet File.)

SNIP:

In another lawsuit, filed earlier this month, eleven Chilean human rights victims--including relatives of people murdered after Pinochet's coup--claimed Kissinger knowingly provided practical assistance and encouragement to the Pinochet regime. Kissinger's codefendant in the case is Michael Townley, an American-born Chilean agent who was a leading international terrorist in the mid-1970s. In his most notorious operation, Townley in 1976 planted a car-bomb that killed Orlando Letelier, Allende's ambassador to the United States, and Ronni Moffitt, Letelier's colleague, on Washington's embassy row.



so ask yourself..if Obama is so different..why did he have Kissinger represent his administration in Russia???????????

The very MAN WHO HAS WORKED WITH THE FOLLOWING ADMINSTRATIONS...NIXON, FORD , REAGAN, GH BUSH, AND BUSHY& CHENEY ADMINISTRATION..AND was a constant visitor to the Bush /Cheney WHITE HOUSE and advisor on the Iraq war????????

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

WSJ: Citi's Chief Economist Leaves for Treasury Post


Source: The Wall Street Journal

Citigroup Inc.'s chief economist is leaving the New York company for a job at the U.S. Treasury Department, according to an internal Citigroup memo.

Lewis Alexander, who has been at Citigroup since 1999 and before that worked at the Federal Reserve, will head to Treasury "to work on domestic financial issues," said the Citigroup memo, which was sent Tuesday.

According to a government official, Mr. Alexander will be a counselor to Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner. Mr. Alexander and a Treasury spokesman weren't immediately available to comment Tuesday. A Citigroup spokesman declined to elaborate on the company's memo.
(...)
Mr. Alexander's role as Citigroup's chief economist didn't entail significant management responsibilities. But his optimistic economic forecasts colored executives' views that the U.S. was unlikely to face a prolonged slump.

Read more: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1237327471 ...

anyone have warm fuzzies yet?????????

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

who can make this crap up???????????


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews /... /...

Despite his pariah status with many Left-wingers in Mr Obama's Democratic Party, the president forged relations with Mr Kissinger during his campaign.

The compliment was returned when the 85-year-old veteran of the Nixon and Ford administrations said last month that the young president was in a position to create a "new world order" by shifting US foreign policy away from the hostile stance of the Bush administration.

He publicly supported Mr Obama's notion of unconditional talks with Iran, though not at the presidential level.

Further demonstrating his willingness to work with his opponents on foreign policy issues, Mr Obama turned to two veteran Republicans steeped in Cold War experience to press home his plans.

Shortly after Mr Kissinger's trip, Richard Lugar, a Republican senator from Indiana who has worked on nuclear disarmament issues for 30 years, also visited Moscow. George Schultz, another former secretary of state, has also played a vital role.





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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-04-09 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. At least we know the credentials of one of these people....
:)

Appreciate the links, know most of the info, but not all.









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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-04-09 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. Many comments on this link at "TALK LEFT" DISPUTE THE DIARY AT KOS
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-04-09 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. As best I can tell, the Talk Left post points out the same thing the Kos OP refers to re: banks
From Kos:
"...the PCA also does not apply to AIG, which is an insurance company and not involved in banking at all. So, pretty much all of the really big players don't fall under the PCA in the first place. Their commercial banking subsidiaries very well may, but your local Bank of America branch is not at the root of this crisis. We can seize the banking units that aren't the problem, but we can't seize the banking units that are the problem."

From Talk Left:
"...every bank holding company has a bank that it holds. There is no need to seize the bank holding company, just the bank."

Bank holding companies are not federally insured depository institutions, although the banks they hold may very well be federally insured depository institutions. But, as the Kos diarists points out, it's not the banks that are at the root of the crisis.

Geithner recognizes this as well, and hence his calling for authority to wind down failing non-bank financial firms that threaten the financial system:

"As we have seen with AIG, distress at large, interconnected, non-depository financial institutions can pose systemic risks just as distress at banks can," Geithner said. "The administration proposes legislation to give the U.S. government the same basic set of tools for addressing financial distress at non-banks as it has in the bank context. ... This proposed legislation would fill a significant void in the current financial services regulatory structure with respect to non-bank financial institutions," Geithner said. "Implementation would be modeled on the resolution authority that the FDIC has under current law with respect to banks."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/24/AR2009032401000.html

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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-04-09 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #28
34. keep reading ..picking one or two comments is disingenious, that is why I only posted the link
Edited on Sat Apr-04-09 09:25 PM by flyarm
Yes, well there's a lot left to be (5.00 / 3) (#5)
by inclusiveheart on Sat Apr 04, 2009 at 12:05:29 PM EST

desired in that diary.
Not the least of which is leaving a whole lot of relevant information from the law he cites that limits the extent to which that loop hole he thinks he found can be used. There is a section called "Appointment of receiver required if other action fails to restore capital" addressing his "loop hole" in which a time limit is given in trying alternative methods of stabilizing the banks. He conveniently left that part out and ranted about people being ignorant - cruel trickery. That's why I click on links.


then this:

The cultists are not my target. (5.00 / 3) (#39)
by inclusiveheart on Sat Apr 04, 2009 at 05:38:39 PM EST

It is their prey that I hope to protect.
I don't actually think I know any more than he does, but I do know that the answers are not as simple as he makes them out to be. It is not fair to people to play the games he does with deflection and obfuscation.

Also, if this country really is on the precipice of total economic collapse, the fact that there are no laws to guide us - if there are none - a debatable point - does NOT mean we can't take action - we don't just have to throw up our hands and say "Oh no laws! Just gotta live with it!" That's ridiculous and it is not what the Founding Fathers intended at all when they created our government. We are supposed to be an agile and innovative body, not lead-footed fools carried by the fates.

then this:

and in purely political terms (5.00 / 2) (#44)
by Turkana on Sat Apr 04, 2009 at 06:10:38 PM EST

my great fear is that by coddling the miscreants, obama will fail to repair enough of the damage. and then the republicans might actually have a chance of coming back, in the next election cycles.
the cultists don't realize it, but their inability to think critically and even slightly objectively hurts obama- and us.


and don't miss this part.......

Yes. (5.00 / 2) (#10)
by Romberry on Sat Apr 04, 2009 at 12:45:22 PM EST

Not unlike Freepers.
I used to visit the great orange ghetto on a pretty regular basis. Once the Hallelujah chorus started during the primaries and anyone singing a different tune was treated like a devil, I sort of withdrew and never much went back. Until today.

Is it my imagination or is that place now very much the same sort of intolerant of dissent (or even uncomfortable, inconvenient facts) place as is The Free Republic? I read through the Moyers thread about his interview with WK Black and I quickly lost count of the insults and "STFU" comments directed at anyone who dared to think that there might actually be some problem with Geithner, Summers and (Dog forbid!) Obama on this whole bailout the rich deal.

Insults aimed at Moyers, at William Black, at anyone who was troubled by what they heard in that interview...well...it's a pretty ugly place and it isn't because of the shade of orange. It was like looking into a some weirdly distorted version of reality where Bushbots had morphed into Democrats and taken up the cause of their new Maximum Leader. Whatever else there was among those who seem to be forming the mob, abundant logical thought was not on the list. Geez...


xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

fly adds..

not many kind comments about the Kos diary..

please if you want to pick out one comment..that is disingenious..that is why I didn't post any, I just posted the link..but see ..I can post a few as well.I didn't want to do that//but since you did ..I have put these on here as another example...read them all..
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-04-09 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. I picked what I thought was the major point of the OP you linked to
Edited on Sat Apr-04-09 10:06 PM by Emit
I was not being disingenuous.


As far as what you have highlighted here, I see little substance, frankly, other than opinion and broad assumptions that the Kossacker is an Obamabot, with some grand conspiracy to deceive.

With regard to the comment about the "Appointment of receiver required if other action fails to restore capital" that the Kossack diarist supposedly 'purposefully left out', it doesn't really 'prove' anything against the Kos diarist, because once again we see that "the appropriate Federal banking agency may continue to take such other action as the agency determines to be appropriate in lieu of such appointment if..." :

(C) Appointment of receiver required if other action fails to restore capital

(i) In general Notwithstanding subparagraphs (A) and (B), the appropriate Federal banking agency shall appoint a receiver for the insured depository institution if the institution is critically undercapitalized on average during the calendar quarter beginning 270 days after the date on which the institution became critically undercapitalized.

(ii) Exception Notwithstanding clause (i), the appropriate Federal banking agency may continue to take such other action as the agency determines to be appropriate in lieu of such appointment if—

(I) the agency determines, with the concurrence of the Corporation, that (aa) the insured depository institution has positive net worth, (bb) the insured depository institution has been in substantial compliance with an approved capital restoration plan which requires consistent improvement in the institution’s capital since the date of the approval of the plan, (cc) the insured depository institution is profitable or has an upward trend in earnings the agency projects as sustainable, and (dd) the insured depository institution is reducing the ratio of nonperforming loans to total loans; and

(II) the head of the appropriate Federal banking agency and the Chairperson of the Board of Directors both certify that the institution is viable and not expected to fail.


http://209.85.173.132/search?q=cache:I6zvzgd7M60J:www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/uscode12/usc_sec_12_00001831---o000-.html+Appointment+of+receiver+required+if+other+action+fails+to+restore+capita&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a

And, of course, it's a mute point anyway if, in fact, the Prompt corrective action law does not apply to these non-depository financial institutions.

As to the second guy's/gal's post, yeah, it's not simple.

Look, I don't think this Kossacker is involved in some big conspiracy, and I can assure you I am not. He/she, like me and others, are just trying to figure stuff out. It's a lot of legal mumbo jumbo to wade through.

Flyarm, there's little 'gotcha' in that Talk Left post, other than a lot of opinion and insinuation that the Kossacker wanted to "Pull one over on us!"

From what I've read, Obama, Geithner et al are trying to figure this out - this is the path they've taken and they are not, as Black has accused them, being unlawful. We can disagree with the path they have chosen, but claiming there is illegal conduct on the part of the Obama administration is a bit premature and really doesn't do us any good at this juncture.

With regard to the comment that, "Also, if this country really is on the precipice of total economic collapse, the fact that there are no laws to guide us - if there are none - a debatable point - does NOT mean we can't take action - we don't just have to throw up our hands and say "Oh no laws! Just gotta live with it!" ..."

Um, that's just ridiculous. Questionable elections resulting in 8 years of Bush are excellent examples of how our hands have been tied due to rules or the lack of rules. Obama can't just go in there and do whatever the hell he wants to these companies.

As I noted in the op, according to this article, Geithner recognizes that and the need for more regulation to address this, in terms of putting a major institution under conservatorship:

Geithner, in prepared testimony before the U.S. House of Representatives Financial Services Committee, said Congress should approve legislation giving the government the ability to step in to put a major institution under conservatorship and avoid a damaging bankruptcy.

"As we have seen with AIG, distress at large, interconnected, non-depository financial institutions can pose systemic risks just as distress at banks can," Geithner said. "The administration proposes legislation to give the U.S. government the same basic set of tools for addressing financial distress at non-banks as it has in the bank context."



http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/24/AR2009032401000.html

edit to correct spacing

And to ask you, flyarm, why the tone in your response to me? Why so angry and assuming? What have I done here in my OP or in my discussion on this topic to deserve such tone from you?
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-04-09 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #20
36. One of the links you provide and the discussion following is insightful
and may help to explain the direction Obama et al are attempting to take and why.

http://www.dailykos.com/comments/2009/4/4/101447/8340/115#c115

Quotes Sheila Bair:

While the depository institution could be resolved under existing authorities, the resolution would cause the holding company to fail and its activities would be unwound through the normal corporate bankruptcy process. Without a system that provides for the orderly resolution of activities outside of the depository institution, the failure of a systemically important holding company or non-bank financial entity will create additional instability as claims outside the depository institution become completely illiquid under the current system.

In the case of a bank holding company, the FDIC has the authority to take control of only the failing banking subsidiary, protecting the insured depositors. However, many of the essential services in other portions of the holding company are left outside of the FDIC's control, making it difficult to operate the bank and impossible to continue funding the organization's activities that are outside the bank. In such a situation, where the holding company structure includes many bank and non-bank subsidiaries, taking control of just the bank is not a practical solution.

If a bank holding company or non-bank financial holding company is forced into or chooses to enter bankruptcy for any reason, the following is likely to occur. In a Chapter 11 bankruptcy, there is an automatic stay on most creditor claims, with the exception of specified financial contracts (futures and options contracts and certain types of derivatives) that are subject to termination and netting provisions, creating illiquidity for the affected creditors. The consequences of a large financial firm filing for bankruptcy protection are aptly demonstrated by the Lehman Brothers experience. As a result, neither taking control of the banking subsidiary or a bankruptcy filing of the parent organization is currently a viable means of resolving a large, systemically important financial institution, such as a bank holding company. This has forced the government to improvise actions to address individual situations, making it difficult to address systemic problems in a coordinated manner and raising serious issues of fairness.*
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geckosfeet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-04-09 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
21. I believe that Mr.Black was addressing the more general case of fraud that
Edited on Sat Apr-04-09 06:37 PM by geckosfeet
was perpetrated by AIG and mortgage bundlers.

When institutions commit wholesale systemic fraud I would agree that there is mandate for our elected leaders to act in our interest using whatever methods are at their disposal.
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-04-09 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
23. Good post, K&R. nt
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-04-09 08:27 PM
Response to Original message
30. And I thought the Obama admin. wouldn't stoop to flying monkey tactics...
"The diary, channeling the frustrated rantings of has-been regulator William K. Black"....
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-04-09 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. Do you think the Kos diarist works for the Obama administration?
:shrug:
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-04-09 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. You're right, it could be the banks, but, then again....
that's becoming harder and harder to separate lately...
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-04-09 10:53 PM
Response to Original message
37. Unfortunately, we're all Americans, hence stupid. Correct-ish ideology or not.
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-04-09 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. Well, one thing's for certain that I know
I have been in a room full of economists (I am NOT an economist but my job has required me to work closely with them) and each had their own opinion on any given topic being discussed, and each was very certain that only his/her own opinion was correct. :crazy:
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-04-09 10:58 PM
Response to Original message
38. I still found the interview interesting
I was 90% sure that Mr. Black was exaggerating based on what I know of this situation, but I still found the interview interesting. Put it this way, I wasn't repeating what he said to anybody I know. I would hope that anybody with a reasonable sense of how self-confident a person should be WRT such a complicated subject matter would be able to detect a excess of cockiness on the part of Mr. Black.
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barbtries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-05-09 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
42. just from my reading of your post
it appears that the law does indeed mandate that the institution be put into receivership unless they have documented why they should not do so.

(A) In general
The appropriate Federal banking agency shall, not later than 90 days after an insured depository institution becomes critically undercapitalized—

(i) appoint a receiver (or, with the concurrence of the Corporation, a conservator) for the institution;

OR

(ii) take such other action as the agency determines, with the concurrence of the Corporation, would better achieve the purpose of this section, after documenting why the action would better achieve that purpose.


is that what the "too big to fail" argument is all about? documenting why they should not put the institutions into receivership?

i don't think Mr Black was lying. i do think there is huge, huge corruption going on, and that the taxpayers are the ones being fleeced.
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-05-09 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. According to several sources, the law you quote does not apply to Bank Holding Companies
and Geithner has outlined legislation (receivership proposals) that would give his department the authority to take over nonbank institutions such as American International Group.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5395923&mesg_id=5395923
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