The Cause of Mass Casualty Shootings?

[tekisui]

I truly seek to avoid any flame wars here.

I think that the causes of mass casualty shooting in the US is due to a convergence of factors. I would like to explore the causes, and look to possible solutions. I see at least four factors in play, most recently:

1-Desperate people due to their economic situation.
2-A culture of violence.
3-Easy access to firearms.
4-Lack of quality mental healthcare, and a stigma surrounding it.

I believe the majority of the shootings have occurred due to a combination of two or more of these factors. Please add others to this list.

So, what can be done about it? Numbers 2 and 3 are essentially third rail politics. Violence in culture in the form of television, movies, video games, music are protected 1st amendment rights. Our perpetual wars and returning PTSD veterans are also part of that.

Access to firearms is a protected 2nd amendment right. Efforts to restrict or limit access to guns is politically not viable. And, like prohibition on alcohol or drugs, will do little in effectiveness. Could measures be used to make firearms safer? Maybe. I don't think that is something that shouldn't be pursued, but if someone wants to kill, those measures would not be relevant.

As I see it, and I may be completely wrong(and I am sure someone will be along to tell me I am), mental health is the real issue. There is a stigma to mental healthcare, and it is not universally or easily accessible. We need free, accessible and "noble" mental healthcare. It should be so integrated and acceptable that one could say to a friend or family member, "I think you need some help", without shame. Just as no one is shunned for seeking professional care for cancer or diabetes or AIDS. We should feel no shame in seeking help with our mental states.

There should be mental health clinics in every town, and suicide treatment centers, as well. Places where people can receive emergency assistance in times of need. If one wants to end their life, they should be able to find guidance and be provided an option that will not harm others, after a waiting period. I think if we had quality, free and accessible mental healthcare integrating it into our culture, we could prevent many of these senseless acts.

Please help me develop an honest dialogue of the causes and possible solutions.

[laconicsax]

1. Crowds?

You can't have lots of casualties if you don't have lots of people in the same place.

[tekisui]

2. You have a point, but

I the population and cities make that a factor that can't be controlled.

[RamboLiberal]

3. Yet I know of one spree killer - Richard Baumhammer

who had the best of mental health care & a wealthy family. Since he would voluntarily commit himself he was allowed to purchase a firearm. 9 years ago this month he went on a racist spree killing. five people of various minority ethnicities died that terrible April day in Pittsburgh area. A sixth would, I believe it was just last year, die of his injuries. He was paralyzed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Baumhammers

I think there's also anger issues and a copycat element to these killings. And a perverse desire for that '15 minutes of fame'.

[tekisui]

4. That's interesting,

I have never heard of him. Some people are just beyond help, it seems.

[RamboLiberal]

5. BTW he was another of the RW Racist Whackos

Sadly I had a bit of a personal connection to this one. I was an instructor/student of a different branch of the karate school where the last shooting happened. I knew the instructor at the school and his black belt wife. I had attended their wedding. It was his African-American new student who was killed that day by Baumhammer in what was to be his final victim.

Coincidentally that day fate intervened that I wasn't at the restaurant where the next-to-last shooting took place. I was going to go there for lunch but I was running late and knew they closed at 3, so I went to a different Chinese restaurant. I saw the news trucks heading to the scene on my way back from lunch. I remember hoping that day when I heard of the shooting at the karate school it wasn't one of ours. Unfortunately it was.

[alarimer]

39. That seems to be the common thread to most of these.

You almost never hear of a liberal spree killer. They almost always have ties to KKK-like groups or the American Nazi Party or something. Or they subscribe to right-wing conspiracy theories. And some I guess are apolitical but definitely not progressive by any stretch of the imagination.

And we have blowhards like Rush and Glenn Beck inciting them on the radio and TV. It's hard for me not to see a connection there. "But Rush is just an entertainer". Yeah, right.

[ColbertWatcher]

8. DUPE. n/t

[ColbertWatcher]

9. Re: the 15 minutes. Didn't McVeigh become a quasi-folk hero to the reactionary right? n/t

[wartrace]

6. "Easy" access to firearms?

You used to be able to buy firearms mail order without any paperwork. Guns are no easier to get now than they were 30 years ago, as a matter of fact there are more hoops to jump through now.

[tekisui]

7. Should they be easier to get?

How does access in the US compare to other developed countries?

[wartrace]

15. Other developed countries? I thought we were discussing OUR country.

It is harder now to get guns than in the past so to blame mass shootings on "easy access" is not logical. If easy access were to blame for mass shootings they should be decreasing. Any gun you buy from a dealer today requires a background check, you used to be able to order them through the mail.

[tekisui]

19. They are still relatively easy to access.

Gun shows, pawn shops, etc. Do you think that if they were easier to access, that gun violence would go down? I don't.

[wartrace]

22. I am saying they are NOW less available.

I'm fine with the system we have now, maybe we need to ban private sales? Point being, the INCREASE in mass shootings can not be tied to an INCREASE in the ease of access to guns. If ease of access was the cause we would see a decrease in mass shootings with the Brady bill and other restrictions placed on guns over the years.

[Fumesucker]

18. I was at a flea market Saturday and watched several rifles change hands anonymously..

Firearms are still easy to get if you have cash..

Just buy from an individual at a flea market, yard sale or what have you.

[wartrace]

23. Private sales are not a new development.

Can that be the cause of increased mass shootings?

[Fumesucker]

29. I was replying to a post that said guns were *more* difficult to obtain now..

And pointing out that was not necessarily the case.

[Arugula Latte]

10. Soulless, rootless society?

A mixture of a landscape of strip malls, a materialistic, jingoistic mentality, lack of access to mental health care (as you said), a traditionally rugged, individualistic culture, a diet of crap ... I don't know the answer.

[ColbertWatcher]

11. Probably all of your causes with a touch of hate radio as well.

Don't minimize the influence of hate radio. For a person whose only companion is the reassuring voice on the radio, hearing one's beliefs validated can be quite powerful and persuasive.

[tekisui]

12. You make a good point.

I listen to about as much RW radio as I do Progressive talk. The reason being, I know where the Progressives stand, and where they are going and too often they get on personal tangents. The RWers are nuts. I hear them. They give a veiled call to arms, and say just enough to cover their asses if any violence followed their words. They are vile and disgusting.

[ColbertWatcher]

13. So, the hate radio goes on impersonal tangents!? n/t

[tekisui]

14. The Progressives that come on through my radio,

Ed Shultz and Steph Miller, especially, will get into personal stuff that is of little to no interest. I support them and love them, but will switch over when the fight isn't focused.

The RWers usually stay on point. EVERYTHING, even their personal rants are pointed at hate of the other, or us. Beck is the worst. Limpballs is bad, too. But, limpballs is very careful. You can hear him cal for action, get his audience worked into a frenzy, and like a quick disclaimer say "by any legal means". He's been coached by a lawyer. Beck is a little sloppier. But, he is also delusional and non-specific about anything. Those are the only ones I am familiar with.

[ColbertWatcher]

17. I used the word "impersonal" as a way of saying ...

... that to incite violence against someone is to dehumanize them.

[tekisui]

20. Ahhhh,

yes, indeed. They are most impersonal. It is the never-quite-defined "them" who is ruining our country and to blame for every affliction or suffering that the listener experiences.

[ladym55]

27. Hate radio does influence

Glenn Beck has been calling for a "Bubba Revolution" and saying things like "we surround them." Michele Bachmann was on Hannity claiming we need a little revolution and that our freedoms were being destroyed.

Ann Coulter has suggested poisoning a Supreme Court justice ... Bill O'Reilly thought blowing up the Coit Tower would be okay ...

And right now the right is all about how we are becoming "socialists," "communists," and "Nazis." And given how frightened and uneducated their listeners are, they are vulnerable to all the hate and anger being sent at them daily.

The left are scapegoats. We are "America haters." We threaten "American values" and "our way of life."

I fear we will see more violence. When you combine fear and despair and season it with non-stop hate speech, you have a lethal combination.

[ColbertWatcher]

28. Lest we forget what hate radio did in Rwanda ...

... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rwandan_genocide#Media_Propaganda

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RTLM

[LongTomH]

40. THANK YOU for pointing that out!

We need to be reminded over and over again what this sort of hate speech can do!

[3woodiii]

34. hate in this country

Guns are not the cause of violence. Violence has been around for thousands of years before guns were here. If someone is hellbent on killing lots of people they can find a way to do it. To me it seems as if the Big two parties in Washington want to divide this great nation. And I mean great because if you go anywhere else in the world you know what I mean. I hate that anybody's freedom and liberty are being encroached upon. Yet every day it seems we lose a little more. I dont agree with what everyone else does and thats fine. But last time I checked this was supposed to be a free country. I think the country would be better as a whole if government got a lot smaller, and let people keep more of what they earn. And if we came together more as countrymen rather than fighting over issues. There have been countless people before us that gave their lives to fight for what we have, and we should honor that.

[tekisui]

50. I am horrified by the hate radio.

It is just appalling what they say, how they say it, and what they imply. There is really no purpose but to incite hatred and fear. Those are dangerous emotions to be stocked when economic and mental health is failing.

[TorchTheWitch]

42. hate radio had a LOT to do with the violence in Rwanda

Of course, it was a lot uglier than the sort we have now, but clearly it demonstrates that there is a big connection there. Perpetual dosing of hate speech is dangerous in that it makes what society would normally frown on acceptable. Even our hate radio has gotten much more vicious over the years... and more acceptable over those same years because we are becoming immune to the ugliness of it.

We have long since ceased being a polite society. Society not so long ago used to frown on mannerless loudmouths spewing bile. Look at our talk shows... talking over people to the point of shouting, interupting, putting words in peoples' mouths, etc. is the norm. That used to be the sort of thing we taught our kids was unacceptable behavior, yet now it's on almost all of our talk shows. I can't stand to watch them because of that... watching supposedly learned adults behaving like bratty tantrum throwing children disgusts me. We even have talk shows where it is acceptable to curse almost non-stop at the guests on the show and even get into fist fights with them.

I've only ever watched talk shows on PBS because of the childish vitriol on all the other channels, and just this morning I saw one that is clearly designed to push the show into that same realm. The host was loud, obnoxious, continually interuped everyone and was clearly trying to instigate the type of childish raving behavoir that pollutes all the other talk shows. Thankfully, not one of the guests took that low road. I'm pissed that the only safe haven from ranting crazies, PBS, is trying to become just like the others. If you can't even count on PBS for intelligent discussion anymore, we're more lost than even I realized.

We're fast becoming a society that celebrates the worst sort of behavior... is it any wonder that people have accepted this and behave toward others abominably?

[Mopar151]

16. Some of this is revenge fantasy

Gone very wrong...
And some is just revenge.

And some who "Ain't goi'n down alone!"

[C......N......C]

21. Mental health. Sane people don't don't make conscious decisions

whether or not to kill somebody.

[G_j]

24. culture of violence

We are still killing people in Afghanistan, well, Pakistan to be more exact. There were many thousand people murdered in our name in Iraq. Our media went along with it, and our children got to watch their elders use murder and destruction as a "problem solver", while much of the country waved flags and glorified the violence. We are talking mass causalities, with societal approval.

Not to say that this is the main reason for the recent tragedies, but I do believe it is all connected.

[sendero]

25. I think it is very simple...

... is it stressed out people who become angrier and angrier until they snap.

Like the guy in NY who had apparently lost his job.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but this stuff is going to happen more and more in the coming years as people find themselves unable to support themselves and their kids often through no fault of their own.

Rather than the torches and pitchforks they should be taking to Washington, there will just be a lot of senseless violence.

Yes, it sucks. No, banning guns won't help.

[moondust]

31. And when they snap...

it's just a matter of what kind of tools are available to them to strike out at whomever or whatever. If it's knives available they may grab some knives and go crazy on somebody. If it's baseball bats then they might flip out with a baseball bat. If your environment is littered with deadly weapons then it may be deadly weapons...quick and easy, multiple victims.

[Catherine Vincent]

26. Were there a lot of mass killings during the depression?

[tekisui]

30. I don't know, but am curious.

If I had to guess, I would guess the culture was not as violent. I don't think mass shootings or killings were as common then as they are now.

[JI7]

32. and the wingnut right wing militia "Commies are going to take away..........types"

[tekisui]

33. Yes, since before the election,

and with great increase after the election, people have rushed to by arms and ammo. That doesn't help a tall.

[KT2000]

35. the pressure on men to succeed

Our culture is very competitive and everyone is expected to make a place for themselves in the world. I believe men place a greater importance on their level of achievement. They are measured by "their place" in the world, social status, much more than women.
Some men place unrealistic expectations upon themselves to achieve and are not successful. They embrace racism and prejudice as a way to at least be better than someone else.
They blame others for their lack of success and have nothing left but to make their mark going out in what they imagine to be a blaze of glory.
By the time someone gets to the point of shooting people, their thinking must be very altered by anger.
Influences such as a recent slight, another failure, watching others become more successful, having their hatred stoked by RW media, failures in personal relationships could push someone over the edge.
This is not about suicide, it is about making a mark in the world and stopping what they feel as humiliation.

Anyway, that is what I have put together after reading about these cases. My sister, nephew and grand nephew came within a few feet of being shot in a mall by a guy who had just been dumped by his girlfriend. There were deaths and a man who had been an actor was paralyzed.

[norepubsin08]

36. Add: Republican mindsets and also the NRA

[morgan2]

37. boredom?

[tekisui]

38. Gawd, I hope not.

[aikoaiko]

41. Better mental health care and a stable economy would go a long way to reducing desperation killings

And if we ended the drug war, we'd get rid of a lot more killings.

[tekisui]

43. AM kick.

[NashVegas]

44. 5. Inability to Process Emotional Issues

And that, IMO, is an ever-increasing national virus.

[a la izquierda]

45. K & R

Interesting answers. I can't add anything, because I honestly haven't a clue. But I always like your posts, and am happy this one hasn't been, um, bombarded.

[tekisui]

47. Thanks.

:hi:

I am in a Spanish class, now, so I know what you name means.:)

[a la izquierda]

48. Hehehe

:)
I'm watching a terrible Spanish morning show at the moment. Gawd, they're worse than ours.

[rucky]

46. Attachment to material things.

They see the lives they build crumble, and have convinced themselves there are no alternatives. Some people can't adapt to factors beyond their control, and are faced with losing things they're convinced they need. Killing is the act of them taking control.

If people felt more secure in society (not just economically), but they knew they had places they could go in times of trouble, they may feel more secure. Instead, we don't have enough of these public resources available for people who are suffering, and our society is pretty callous towards people in need. They're too proud to ask for help, and there's too many people who think that if you're failing, you somehow deserve it - including and especially the individual who is failing. I could see how people can easily convince themselves that there is no hope. How an individual gets from that relatable situation to mass killing is beyond me, but I feel that if we focused on taking care of each other, there'd be less of this.

[tekisui]

49. Well said.

I think that the steps from what you describe as a relatable situation into a mass killing come from prolonged desperation, or a triggering event. The straw on the camel's back. The individual sees no way out but to end their life.

Once someone has made a decision to kill themselves, killing another or many others is one small step. I really would like to see a comprehensive and integrated overhaul of the mental health system, including suicide centers. I think a lot could be prevented if one had a place to go in desperation, be helped and monitored. And, after 2 or 3 days the individual still wanted to take their life they could be given a few pills and a safe place to take them.