Fluoride in drinking water back in the news

[Prometheus Bound]

Canada

Fluoride debate returns to council
Updated: Sun Apr. 05 2009 13:01:28
ctvcalgary.ca

Aldermen are set to start the debate on Calgary's fluoridated drinking water and some say the practice is costing Calgarians too much money.

Estimates to replace the aging equipment that adds the fluoride to the water is the primary concern when it comes to cost.

Calgary started adding fluoride to the water supply in 1989 after 53% of Calgarians voted in favour of the practice.

Since then, there have been 6 plebiscites on the issue and over that time more study has come to light about the health and dental benefits of adding fluoride to drinking water.

On April 6th, five aldermen entered a motion asking that fluoride be removed from Calgary's drinking water in an attempt to save money.

The motion also asked for $750,000 to help low income Calgarians who can't afford regular fluoride treatments at the dentist.

The decades old debate hits the city council table Monday.
http://calgary.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20090405/CGY_fluoride_debate_090405/20090405/?hub=CalgaryHome

April 5, 2009
Flouridation is an issue that won't go away as council gets set to reopen a discussion started 52 years ago
UPDATED: 2009-04-05 02:06:25 MST

Tomorrow, city council will debate whether to take fluoride out of the water, a move pushed by five aldermen.

And one change is interesting. In the past, anti-fluoride forces have been cast by their opponents as radical right-wing nutbars, uninformed wackos and cartoon-like characters obsessed with quirky conspiracy theories. Now those against fluoride include more advocates of a distinctly green tinge, a tougher target for the experts to lampoon.

The five aldermen, the Anti-Fluoridation Five, include people from both sides of the great political divide: Druh Farrell, John Mar and Brian Pincott alongside Jim Stevenson and Andre Chabot. Ric McIver is also on board, so even Dr. No and the latte-lifting Queen of Kensington agree. Wonders never cease.
more: http://calsun.canoe.ca/News/Columnists/2009/04/05/9009171-sun.php

Evidence shows why we shouldn't fluoridate water
Ken Case • Guest Columnist • April 5, 2009
Hardy Limeback is a practicing dentist as well as associate professor and head of preventive dentistry at the University of Toronto, Ontario. He is world-renowned for his expertise and was Canada's leading fluoride authority and promoter of water fluoridation until 1999 at which time he assembled his dental faculty and students. He recalls, "Speaking as the head of preventive dentistry, I told them that I had unintentionally misled my colleagues and my students. For the past 15 years, I had refused to study the toxicology information that is readily available to anyone. Poisoning our children was the furthest thing from my mind. The truth was a bitter pill to swallow. But swallow it I did."

Swallowing is the issue with fluorides. Any benefits of fluoride occur topically — at the tooth's surface — not systemically as was once thought. Limeback is especially concerned about infants' exposure to fluoride and warns that powdered formula must never be reconstituted with fluoridated water.
.....
more: http://www.newsleader.com/article/20090405/OPINION02/904050314

Why Fluoridation Is Not Universally Popular
By Louise McCoy
Epoch Times Staff Mar 14, 2009
Fluoride, a poisonous waste product of the fertilizer and aluminum industries, has been added to water supplies since 1945.

Since water fluoridation has been used to prevent tooth decay, it has met with opposition by those who do not want governments to determine their medication, and by those who know its bad effects. This method of involuntary medication is now being questioned more because of the great information wave and subsequent studies.

Fluorine is so chemically related to iodine that it preempts iodine in the cells like a hatched cuckoo in a bird’s nest.

Iodine is found in the reproductive glands, the thyroid, the pituitary, and the breasts. Doctors in Europe used to “cure” hyperthyroidism with fluoride until the 1970s. <1> Hypothyroidism is now so common that everyone knows people taking thyroid medication.

Since fluoride is not destroyed by heat, it is in processed food and drink made with fluoridated water. It has also become more concentrated in the human body. Only large amounts of iodine (12 to 50 mg per day) can unseat fluoride from its comfortable lodging. The remedy? Eat plenty of seaweed, or get a doctor to prescribe non-radioactive iodine.

John Yiamouyannis, Ph.D. (biochemistry) explained to a small group of us, while on his anti-fluoridation crusade, that fluoride destroys an enzyme that repairs DNA, and, as a result, causes cancer. He wrote the book “Fluoride the Aging Factor: How to Recognize and Avoid the Devastating Effects of Fluoride” explaining the biology of fluoride poisoning.
more: http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/content/view/13680/

Dentists divided on fluoride issue
Updated: Wed Mar. 25 2009 17:15:44
ctvcalgary.ca
....But not all dentists are on board with added fluoride.

Dr. Bob Dickson voted in favour of it in the city's last plebiscite but has changed his mind since then. "It's been one of the biggest scams ever perpetrated," says Dickson.

Dickson says there has been no proof that fluoride in the water supply is effective.

He also says monitoring should be done to see how much fluoride people are actually ingesting.
http://calgary.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20090325/CGY_Dentist_Fluoride_090325/20090325/?hub=CalgaryHome

US

Group Asks City To Remove Fluoride From Water
Plattsburgh Mulling Fluoride Request
....City councilors said they are still gathering information on the topic. It will be some time before they decide whether or not to remove fluoride from the water.
more: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29676290/

Holladay may win right to go without fluoride
Public health » A bill would let users vote on whether to use the additive.
By Robert Gehrke
The Salt Lake Tribune
Posted: 04/02/2009 12:01:00 AM MDT
http://www.sltrib.com/midvalley/ci_12049776

Holmen (WI) Residents Work to Overturn Fluoride Referendum
Posted: April 3, 2009 09:25 PM
If opponents have their way Holmen voters may have to make another decision about their drinking water.

In November 2008, residents in Holmen voted to add flouride to the village's drinking water.
http://www.wkbt.com/Global/story.asp?S=10124454

Group Wants Fluoride Out Of Aiken’s Water
Monday, April 6, 2009
An Aiken group wants something “clean”...their water. The Citizens Alliance For Water Safety says flouride is added to the water without consent…they claim it can be harmful, especially to infants.
http://www.wjbf.com/jbf/news/state_regional/south_carolina/article/group_wants_fluoride_out_of_aikens_water/12357/

UK

Souhampton's anti-fluoride group looks for support at public meeting
1:06pm Friday 3rd April 2009
http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/4264778.Anti_fluoride_group_looks_for_support_at_public_meeting/

Australia

Ballina council does backflip on fluoridation
Rebecca Lollback | 2nd April 2009
THE process to fluoridate the Ballina Shire's water supply has hit its first hurdle.

Three councillors yesterday lodged a rescission motion which will see the matter debated again later this month.

At its March meeting, the council voted 6-4 in favour of fluoridation.

But there has been some backlash from residents about the lack of consultation.
http://www.northernstar.com.au/story/2009/04/02/ballina-council-does-backflip-on-fluoridation/

Warrnambool residents to sue over water fluoridation
Posted Wed Mar 25, 2009 11:18am AEDT

A Warrnambool lawyer says more than 12 people want to sue the Victorian Government for adding fluoride to the city's water supply.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/03/25/2525589.htm

Battle lines drawn on fluoridation
http://www.northernstar.com.au/story/2009/03/25/battle-lines-drawn-in-ballina-on-fluoridation/

India

No safe drinking water, no votes, says Bihar village
April 5th, 2009 - 2:28 pm ICT by IANS
By Imran Khan
Patna, April 5 (IANS) Fed up with official apathy, people of a Bihar village, suffering for decades due to high fluoride content in drinking water, have sent politicians the simple message: no safe drinking water, no votes.

Villagers in Khaira in the Jamui constituency have decided to boycott the April 16 polls and have banned the entry of politicians for campaigning.

“We have decided to boycott elections and will not allow the entry of politicians to draw the attention of officials over the failure to provide fluoride-free drinking water to us,” said Hardeo Prasad, a resident of Khaira, 200 km from here.
http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/politics/no-safe-drinking-water-no-votes-says-bihar-village_100175737.html

Jordan

Amman water fluoridation plan put on hold
29 March 2009
AMMAN - The Jordan Water Company (Miyahuna) has suspended plans to add fluoride to the capital's water after initial studies indicated a variation in existing fluoride levels in Amman's water sources.

....According to the Health Ministry, an estimated 60 to 75 per cent of children suffer from dental diseases, while studies indicate that children under the age of six usually have four decayed teeth.
http://www.zawya.com/Story.cfm/sidZAWYA20090329032035/Amman%20water%20fluoridation%20plan%20put%20on%20hold

[Sebastian Doyle]

1. Can't wait for the lobbyists to show up here and tell us how "safe" flouride is.

"Well of course it's harmless! You brush your teeth with it, don't you??"

Yes, and the toothpaste tube says "don't swallow this toxic shit."

[PCIntern]

2. ...and you know what?

Those people who live in Texas and Colorado who have enormous endemic Fluoride in the water, many ppm...HAVE NO INCREASE IN DISEASES ATTRIBUTED TO FLUORIDATION!

But why let the facts bother anyone here...
The morbidity and mortality associated with non-fluoridation is enormous. But why TF should anyone care, since this is a Bad Science issue right up there along with the anti-circumcision crowd.

And I happen to know what I'm talking about, speaking from professional competence.

[Sebastian Doyle]

4. You're a dentist, right?

So when you clean someone's teeth, or leave the little foam trays in their mouths for a few minutes, you also stick the little vacuum hose in their mouths and/or tell them to spit, right?

Why? Because it's poison. You would no more ask a patient to swallow that than you would the mercury that you use in fillings (if you still do that and haven't moved on to the newer techniques).

As for circumcision.... not that I want to go into side issues, but you brought it up..... aside from those who do so for religious reasons, I don't see it as a requirement. Proper hygiene should be taught as just regular old common sense for all of your body parts.

[KT2000]

5. Sorry but

you better look into the history of any environmentally caused illness. The books are cooked when it comes to investigating such connections. It may interest you to know that the Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry, whose job it is to investigate cluster illnesses has NEVER found any link to environmental cause.
Have you looked at the reseach that supports your statement about TX and CO? Anlyzed the data?
Because when it comes to environmentally caused illness the tricks are many to deny cause.

[PCIntern]

12. Uh-huh.

Sorry, YOU will have to PROVE that there is enormous underlying unreported disease in those states. That's how science works. Until then, this is just propaganda and bad science. And lies.

[KT2000]

14. Bullcrap

cancer is a reported disease and even those numbers are cooked. In most states that is about it. Where are the reporting registries and for what illnesses? Good luck finding them.

[PCIntern]

15. You know,

I've been a practicing dentist for more than thirty years. When I started in this profession, I saw the left-over ravages of non-fluoridation: gross decay, missing teeth, periodontal disease secondary to these two conditions and NOW WE KNOW that coronary artery disease is often caused by masses of dental bacteria breaking off and loding in the artery thus causing thrombosis and a heart attack. As I stated before, the morbidity and mortality of failure to administer fluoride is frighteningly high, not to even begin to speak about quality of life issues and nutrition.

So: 'bullcrap' to you, amateur. You have absolutely no idea whatsoever as to the conswquences of your statements.

[proud2BlibKansan]

18. Thank you

In my family alone, there is evidence supporting the value of fluoride. I have only 3 teeth in my mouth that have never had a cavity. My husband has had cavities in every molar. Yet we have two kids who had fluoride treatments and one has never had a cavity and the other has had only two.

I have gum disease and have regular fluoride treatments that have literally saved my teeth.

I have a family member who almost died from an abscessed tooth. She ended up in ICU and had to have several surgeries. Her tooth flared up when she was overseas and she ignored it until she got home.

I had a much loved and still missed dog who died from a tooth abscess.

Tooth decay is nothing to ignore. Fluoride is a miracle treatment and anyone who denies this or believes the conspiracy theory crap is just ignorant. Or lucky.

[wolfgangmo]

22. A couple of points

First, there are no miracle treatments.

Second, one family does not a statistical universe make.

Third, your anecdotal information is a call for proper dental care and NOT for adding fluoride to our water supplies. All of my family has almost perfect teeth and we never had fluoride in our water. Never. I remove it from my tap water along with chlorine and a few other chemicals because I hate the taste. So does my anecdote trump yours? No it doesn't.

But it does illustrate the theory that people are different. It also support the idea of having some basic dental care as part of universal health care.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

25. "So does my anecdote trump yours?" Actually, yeah, it does.

Because it's supported by scientific facts. While yours is contrary to scientific facts.

You can't taste fluoride at the level present in drinking water.

[proud2BlibKansan]

26. I had good dental care as a child

I realize my family's story proves nothing. But it means something to me. I have three siblings and we all have kids and every single one has kids with fewer cavities than we had as kids.

And like I said, we had good dental care. But we had no fluoride treatments and no fluoride in our water until we were older.

[wolfgangmo]

19. Just a thought here

but how would you feel about universal health care that included some basic dental services IN PLACE OF fluoride in water?

[PCIntern]

27. Not much...

at all whatsoever.

Antifluorodationism is the mark of a anti-humanistic group or individual. The John Birchers used to love this 'debate'. You don't know what you're talking about, so just find another 'cause'...like Hg in tuna...yeah, that oughta keep you busy for years. didja know that there's more free Hg in a can of tuna than in 6 large dental restorations composied of silver amalgam?

[KT2000]

32. You are confused

about the point I made. You made a statement about illness in CO and TX that I happen to know is not supported by accurate data such as enumeration of suspected illnesses pre and post fluoridation.
The lecture you just gave is a non sequitor but i suspect is an emotional issue for you. In addition I never stated my position on fluoride - just the wild statement you made in your post that you called "science" but in fact is not.

[alarimer]

31. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

It is very difficult to prove causality. Most epidemiological studies simply show a correlation and correlation is NOT causality. Ask anyone with even a passing familiarity with statistical inference. The books are NOT cooked. There is simply not a lot of statistical evidence to show links between various substances and disease, most likely because there are a lot of other causes for said diseases, expect those that are biological in origin (viruses, bacteria, etc).

[KT2000]

34. Inadequate testing

of chemicals is the starting point for the futility of finding even correlation. The GAO just added the EPA to their high risk series because "the EPA lacks adequate scientific information on the toxicity of many chemicals found in the environment - as well as on tens of thousands of chemicals used commercially in the US"
go to gao.gov and look up High Risk Series
Also check out the award winning series in the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel: Chemical Fallout/Watchdog Report http://www.jsonline.com Businesses have been successful at dismantling public protections, starting with inadequate (sometimes none) testing.

For example, Rachel Carson warned of the effect certain chemicals have on the human endocrine system in the 1960's. That makes it 70 years that business has successfully held off even vetting their products for such effects.

yes - the books are cooked. Public health officials are up against manufacturers, insurance companies, int'l corporations, government agencies, politicians and the military who want to make sure links are never found. It's about preventing liability.

[kimmerspixelated]

16. I know of at least two in Tejas with thyroid problems!

[depakid]

21. Like a bad penny, this stuff just never goes away...

http://www.audit-commission.gov.uk/reports/accessible.asp?ProdID=2D847593-050A-427d-B31B-C0A4683939AA#sect20

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

8. Wow, fluoride too?

I knew you were into the HFCS and vaccines woo. But not the fluoride bidness.

[proud2BlibKansan]

20. Chemtrails are next.

Just wait. :scared:

[alarimer]

29. It is safe.

Not to mention we have stronger teeth and bones because of it.

PCIntern is right (and he should know better than anyone who is not a dentist).

What is about the left and it's tendency to believe right-wing conspiracy theories? I guess lack of critical thinking skills affects not just the right-wingers.

[WeDidIt]

30. Are yiou an air force colonel

and is your real name Jack D. Ripper?

[Lyric]

33. There is a limit at which almost anything becomes "toxic shit."

Even WATER.

The possibility of an overdose does not negate the health benefits of eating sodium, or magnesium, or potassium, or calcium, or iron, or copper, or fluoride, or anything ELSE that's beneficial in trace amounts but poisonous when taken excessively.

Your logic fails.

[bushmeister0]

3. The revenge of General Jack Ripper! Deny them your essence!

General Jack D. Ripper: Mandrake, do you realize that in addition to fluoridating water, why, there are studies underway to fluoridate salt, flour, fruit juices, soup, sugar, milk... ice cream. Ice cream, Mandrake, children's ice cream.

Group Capt. Lionel Mandrake: Lord, Jack.

General Jack D. Ripper: You know when fluoridation first began?

Group Capt. Lionel Mandrake: I... no, no. I don't, Jack.

General Jack D. Ripper: Nineteen hundred and forty-six. Nineteen forty-six, Mandrake. How does that coincide with your post-war Commie conspiracy, huh? It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hard-core Commie works.

Group Capt. Lionel Mandrake: Uh, Jack, Jack, listen, tell me, tell me, Jack. When did you first... become... well, develop this theory?

General Jack D. Ripper: Well, I, uh... I... I... first became aware of it, Mandrake, during the physical act of love.

Group Capt. Lionel Mandrake: Hmm.

General Jack D. Ripper: Yes, a uh, a profound sense of fatigue... a feeling of emptiness followed. Luckily I... I was able to interpret these feelings correctly. Loss of essence.

Group Capt. Lionel Mandrake: Hmm.

General Jack D. Ripper: I can assure you it has not recurred, Mandrake. Women uh... women sense my power and they seek the life essence. I, uh... I do not avoid women, Mandrake.

Group Capt. Lionel Mandrake: No.

General Jack D. Ripper: But I... I do deny them my essence.

[ThomWV]

10. You beat me to it - the reference that is - you dialog is wonderful

[Johonny]

13. POE

[elocs]

6. Holmen, WI is just 6 miles down the road from me.

It reminds me of the titanic battles fought here in La Crosse to fluoridate the water back in the early 1960s with the shrill cries that it was a communist plot. Dentists in this area would say they could tell just by looking at children's teeth as to whether they lived in a community where there was fluoridated water or not. Not too much problem with cavities in children here anymore, so dentists have really turned to putting braces in every kid's mouth. They put chlorine in the water here too and that's a poison, but I don't think anyone has considered drinking a glass of chlorine any more than they would drink a glass of fluoride.

[Prometheus Bound]

7. Toxic. Industrial. Waste.

I was surprised to see almost all of the 17 comments supportive of the writer's stand as Calgary debates the issue.

Brush away fluoride
By Kevin Brooker, For The Calgary Herald
March 30, 2009

.....This is done in extremely diluted amounts, to be sure. But still, let me tell you how the company's own safety data sheet characterizes the chemical: "Prolonged exposure could result in bone changes, corrosive effect on mucous membranes including ulceration of nose, throat and bronchial tubes, cough, shock, pulmonary edema, Fluorosis, coma and death." Should you need to handle hydrofluorosilicic acid, they advise you to wear a full face shield and acid-resistant clothing and boots.

As Calgary once again dives into the cacophonous dialogue between pro-and anti-fluoridation advocates, I want you to bear this information in mind.

....Somewhere along the line somebody is sure to ask another question. If fluoride is so benign and beneficial, why did the American Dental Association, in 2006, issue a guideline to mothers advising them to use non-fluoridated water in preparing baby formula for the first 12 months?

They will also point to unambiguous remarks like the following, by Dr. J. William Hirzy of the U. S. Environmental Protection Agency, March 26, 2001: "In summary, we hold that fluoridation is an unreasonable risk. That is, the toxicity of fluoride is so great and the purported benefits associated with it are so small--if there are any at all--that requiring every man, woman and child in America to ingest it borders on criminal behaviour on the part of governments."

...it's as good a time as any to commit three simple words to memory:

Toxic. Industrial. Waste.

http://www.calgaryherald.com/Health/Brush+away+fluoride/1442821/story.html

[kimmerspixelated]

17. Touche'!!!!

TOXIC-Period!

[ThomWV]

9. Isn't that the stuff that made Dr. Stranglove destory the world or something like that?

duh ....

[Prometheus Bound]

11. I see the fluoride issue has been well-covered at DU. Some threads:

Are You Drinking the Water? What's Fluoride?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3460192#3460304

Who, in their right mind, would think that we are INGESTING fluoride to prevent cavities?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=222x24933

Fluoride Warning Issued for Infants
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1591056

Fluoride-Gate, naming names at Centers for Disease Control
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=222x30456

Report raises flag on fluoride
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=222x5957

Last week there was a thread here about putting fluoride in the water
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1965869#1965911

Arsenic in my Fluoride? CDC admits Yes
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x405259#412995

Critics raise red flag over fluoride in tap water
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2346808#2347000

[MissB]

23. Dupe

.

[MissB]

24. Cool! I truly want us to return to a time when women's dowrys included

full sets of dentures.

Yes, I am pro-fluoridation. No, I do not believe that the CDC and all other government entities are out to poison me. No, it doesn't bother me that certain fluoride chemicals are produced as a side stream in fertilizer processing plants (um, it's cost effective for them to be in the fluoride chemical business, and the current type of ore mined for fluoride is easily dealt with in their processing plants).

Yes, there is a topical benefit, even to adults. Exposure in water provides the steady benefit that teeth need to stay strong.

Yes, you're not supposed to eat toothpaste. One of the few cases of skeletal fluorosis in the US is from some dude who did just that, many times a day for a long period of time. Luckily, he was stopped and the skeletal fluorosis wasn't irreversible.

No, I'm not a dentist.

[WeDidIt]

28. They want to sap and impurify our precious bodily fluids.

[Prometheus Bound]

35. Dentists and doctors against fluoridation (fluoride promoters starting to be held accountable)

Evidence shows why we shouldn't fluoridate water
April 5, 2009
Hardy Limeback is a practicing dentist as well as associate professor and head of preventive dentistry at the University of Toronto, Ontario. He is world-renowned for his expertise and was Canada's leading fluoride authority and promoter of water fluoridation until 1999 at which time he assembled his dental faculty and students. He recalls, "Speaking as the head of preventive dentistry, I told them that I had unintentionally misled my colleagues and my students. For the past 15 years, I had refused to study the toxicology information that is readily available to anyone. Poisoning our children was the furthest thing from my mind. The truth was a bitter pill to swallow. But swallow it I did."

Swallowing is the issue with fluorides. Any benefits of fluoride occur topically — at the tooth's surface — not systemically as was once thought. Limeback is especially concerned about infants' exposure to fluoride and warns that powdered formula must never be reconstituted with fluoridated water.

Excessive intake of fluoride during tooth development results in dental fluorosis, a condition that the CDC said in 2005 was exhibited by one-third of U.S. children and adolescents aged 6 to 19. Almost 4 percent had moderate to severe fluorosis.

Bill Osmunson, a cosmetic dentist, often treats the white and brown tooth damage caused by fluorides. For 25 years he promoted water fluoridation, but his life was changed when, at the urging of his patients, he re-examined the issue. As he put it, "Looking at the current literature was like a knee in the gut."

Photos taken by Limeback and others can be seen online. The December 2008/January 2009 issue of the Journal of the Canadian Dental Association discusses the difficulty of repairing severely fluorotic teeth.

There is more at stake here than developing teeth. The National Research Council's 2006 report on fluorides stated that diabetics, kidney patients and seniors are "susceptible subpopulations" that are particularly vulnerable to harm from ingested fluorides. .....

Legal organizations are looking at mechanisms for redress against those who have failed to warn of the harmful effects of consuming fluoridated water.

In January, a formal letter of notice went out to the American Diabetes Association outlining the "upcoming tsunami of public outrage and ensuing lawsuits" toward those who have failed to warn of potential harm from fluoridated water.

Those making untrue and misleading statements in support of water fluoridation are starting to be held accountable.

http://www.newsleader.com/article/20090405/OPINION02/904050314