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davidswanson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-06-09 02:55 PM
Original message
What's the Real Reason?
The Pentagon is starting to cut weapons programs, and peace groups are bound to cheer.

I don't just mean pseudo-peace groups funded by the makers of OTHER weapons systems (and these do exist, and you should be wary of any campaign obsessed with ending a particular weapon). I mean ordinary peace groups. Because we've been demanding an end to wasteful weapons systems, fraudulent and outdated weapons systems, weapons systems designed for nonexistent enemies. We claimed that those concerns were at least among our real reasons for wanting to cut Pentagon funds.

Well, the Pentagon is about to spend more money than any military ever has in the history of the planet, with less waste, less fraud, and weapons that kill real enemies more effectively. Why aren't we happy?

We've focused our opposition to wars above all on the deaths of U.S. soldiers, but now we're killing foreigners with unmanned drones involving no risk to any Americans, unless in the delayed form of terrorist blowback. So why aren't we pleased?

We've screamed about the foolishness of fighting a war in Iraq when the devil had taken up residence in Afghanistan. And now we're escalating the war in Afghanistan dramatically, while only negligibly scaling back the war in Iraq. Now the devil must be in real danger, so why aren't we thrilled?

We've made a lot of noise about the financial cost of wars and weapons and the supposed need to stop funding wars in order to fund human needs. But our government now invents piles of funding many times the size of any war budget and gives it to Wall Street robber barons, making our whole case against killing people look sort of silly. We could just invent funding for schools and healthcare if we wanted to, and keep the wars going too. Or so it appears.

We've complained that wars make us all less safe, and our own government's experts have agreed. Terrorism is on the rise and our nation's popularity has been scraping bottom around the world. But the attacks of 9-11 and the anthrax attacks have not been repeated. Shouldn't that satisfy us? Why are we STILL not content.

Because, of course, we did not give our real reasons when we gave all those other ones. We did not say that we oppose killing people because they are people. Period. Sometimes we have said that, and there can be a value in strategically adding other arguments for particular audiences. But there is a danger in overshadowing your real reasons, a risk that you may forget them yourself, and that you may get what you claim to want and then find it odious.

I've been arguing in my congressional district that we need single-payer healthcare in order to decrease bureaucracy and create jobs. But there are other ways to do those things, and you can be sure they'll be found before anyone will back single-payer for those purposes. It's good to have rebuttal points to predictable and ill-informed opposition. But we must avoid letting our rebuttal points become our central argument. I want people to have good healthcare because they are people. Period.

Think about what you want, what you really want, what the core reasons are for what you want. The right wing may be better at this because their whole philosophy is designed around the merits of selfishness. But the rest of us have to do it too. And when we burrow down to the bottom of what really motivates us, or should motivate us, we'll find that it's not electing members of a party, it's not creating opportunities to cheer for a political team. It's establishing actual peace and justice for people all over the world.

Working for global peace and justice will look harder than other goals, and may even get you mocked and ridiculed. But what happens if you push for mass-transit as more convenient and they just build more roads and subsidize gas? What happens if you oppose warrantless spying because it's illegal and they legalize it? What happens if you demand an end to torture because it produces faulty intelligence and then somebody claims it doesn't? What happens if you promote fair trade policies by waving flags and in the end produce only attacks on immigrants?

I don't want more efficient weapons, Secretary Gates. In fact, I don't even want YOU working in my government. I know what I really want and I intend to say it. Peace Now. Justice Now. Honesty Now.
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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-06-09 03:07 PM
Response to Original message
1. I think Gates is a pretty straight forward guy, a d I believe him when
he said the different military branches were always looking for weapons to fight future wars and not the war9s0 we;re fighting right now. That's what HE'S funding...the things we need NOW in Afghanistan. I would like Peace too, but we started this mess in Afghan & Iraq, and it's going to cost money & weapons to finish it. I think your best fight would be to fight that we not get involved in any more conflicts! I give Gates credit for concentrating on the current situation!
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davidswanson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-06-09 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. finish?
does that mean everyone dead or something else? please specify.
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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-06-09 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Obama has already instructed the military to plan for an orderly withdrawl
from Iraq, and I would LOVE to see Obama's military capture or kill Osama!

I hate war, but I also think it would be an mistake for everyone to pull out of Afghan now. I say give Obama a chance to get enough moderates there to work with him and show the radical Al Qaida they've lost their power. That will take some time, and if Gates believes spending more $$ on Drones to buy that time, I agree with him.
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davidswanson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-06-09 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. if you believe
the us is leaving iraq can you please call me about a bridge i'm putting on the market?

you want to shoot up people's houses in Afghanistan in hopes of killing a guy in Pakistan under the belief that this will de-radicalize the people being shot at?

again, about that bridge...
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-06-09 03:30 PM
Response to Original message
3. You're right, David.
We hold back because we think it's "bad marketing," and we'll be called bleeding hearts or whateve.

I say the sincerely expressed ideas catch on the best, if they're expressed with confidence as well.
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davidswanson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-06-09 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Ex
actly
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-06-09 04:18 PM
Response to Original message
7. Off to the greatest pages.
Edited on Mon Apr-06-09 04:18 PM by Uncle Joe
Thanks for the thread, davidswanson.:thumbsup:
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-06-09 04:47 PM
Response to Original message
8. k&r
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pacalo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-06-09 04:48 PM
Response to Original message
9. K&R.
After having made it clear to my sister, who supported Bush & whose son is a Marine in Iraq, over the years that I thought Bush's war was wrong, I'm now at a loss for words that it is not only continuing, but at the escalation in Afghanistan.

My feeling is that there are special ops forces who could have accomplished whatever goal our government was seeking. The "why not" is that war is money for the bigwigs & our country is being run by the corporations & military interests.
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Turbineguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-06-09 06:04 PM
Response to Original message
10. The Military is definitely
Edited on Mon Apr-06-09 06:04 PM by Turbineguy
interested in cutting waste. The Navy is interested in reducing manpower requirements and saving fuel.

The major stumbling blocks are command egos and tradition.
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barbtries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-06-09 07:45 PM
Response to Original message
11. excellent read.
some of us aren't actually motivated by pure greed. we respect the lives of more than just ourselves and our group of people. imagine.
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mirrera Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-06-09 08:07 PM
Response to Original message
12. kick
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-06-09 08:30 PM
Response to Original message
13. Our duty
Our service is a service that was handed down to us by the peace seekers that lived before. Not everyone accepts that which has been given us, but everyone enjoys the richness of the life it has provided.

For the most part we live in peace. And mostly we have justice. We did not invent this life of peace and justice, which come hand in hand: You can't have peace without justice and you can't have justice without peace.

Before now, we were the voiceless and there were many who stood up for us and raised their voices for us. Today we reap what they sowed.

So today, we too, now, must speak for the voiceless, living and yet to be alive. Not everyone accepts that calling, but thank gawd some do.

Peace be unto you, David. That way, peace also be unto me, eh?
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-06-09 09:17 PM
Response to Original message
14. Secretary Gates, so very many humans would like to evolve
Do you believe that human beings can grow up, and can become evolved enough to not feel the need to spend treasure, accumulating and inventing ways to obliterate, and destroy, to murder, maim and traumatize?

I do.

you are one of those people who continually say "tomorrow".
Stop holding us back, we need to move on.

There will be no tomorrow, if you can't embrace today.



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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-07-09 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
15. Imagine the effect of spending those trillions of dollars on sending Americans to other
nations to help build green, energy-efficient infrastructure or to help them build sustainable sewer and water systems. Those are the types of programs that would help guarantee America's security in the world.

Thank you, David, for reminding us of the "bottom line" in our quest for peace and justice.

Rec and kick.

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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-07-09 11:01 AM
Response to Original message
16. For You David:
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davidswanson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-07-09 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. whoa dude
can that thing fly? :-)
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