Blame the teachers, Blame the teachers!

[MadHound]

Well, our biannual, totally depressing rite of spring came and went yesterday. Our local, rural school district operates a combined middle school/high school facility centrally located in the northern part of the county. It worked well during the sixties and seventies, started getting a bit tight in the eighties, started sprouting those classroom trailers in the nineties, which proliferated to the point that there is no more free ground available to put anything. Meanwhile, the original building is falling apart, regular roof leaks, concrete crumbling, no AC, it really needs some TLC. And it is now overcrowded to the point where between classes, students are literally packed wall to wall in the hall.

Starting ten years ago the local school board floated the idea of a bond to build a new middle school, and to provide money to repair and upgrade the current building. Well, that year, and every year afterwards, the bond issue would get about 55% or so to vote for it. Great, right? Wrong, for bond issues you need a super majority to pass, so thus a minority of people can hold the entire district hostage, just because they don't have kids in school, don't like education, and don't want to increase their taxes.

It's heartbreaking to hear from these teachers. They're powerless, they can't campaign for this issue, they can't speak out about it, they can't run for school board, all they can do is bite their tongue and teach. It's heartbreaking to listen to some of their modest wishes, one English teacher simply wanted to get out of a trailer, not because the trailer itself is starting to fall apart, but in order that he can be out in the hall between classes and actually be more of a part of the school.

So is it any wonder that these schools are flirting with becoming unacceptable schools? Yet the local idiots continue to blame the teachers, many of whom I know personally, many of whom are outstanding teachers. But no, according to the local critics, substandard facilities don't matter, overcrowding doesn't matter, lack of money doesn't matter, all that matters is that supposedly the teachers are failing to do their job.

I continue to see this same attitude in our society, and in our administration. While Obama and Duncan continue to work up plans for more testing and merit pay, sixteen billion dollars slated for new school construction was cut out of the stimulus bill in favor of more tax cuts, all to appease the 'Pugs. NCLB, that curse laid on us by the Bush administration isn't going to be abolished, no, just shined up and "reformed". Charter schools, the first step towards a two tier education system, are being pushed by the current administration. And pundits of all stripes, right, left and center, continue to bash teachers, the ones who have the least say in matters, for failing to do their job.

Is this what you want, a public school system that is driven into the ground because a minority of local yahoos are anti-tax and anti-education? Do you want a two tier education system with publicly funded (via vouchers) private schools at the top, serving the elite while underfunded public schools struggle along trying to do the best they can?

Stop blaming the teachers. Wake up and look around, and especially look in the mirror. Education is the only profession where the public gets to decide how much funding the profession gets, which direction the profession takes, and how much the members of that profession get paid. The largest single reason that our education system is currently going downhill is because all across this country education is chronically underfunded. For a profession that is supposedly the most important one, ranking up there with doctors, we certainly don't expend the money on it in a fashion that reflects that importance. We try to get education on the cheap, and many times education becomes either one of the first casualties during economic downtimes, or worse yet a political football.

So please, stop blaming teachers. Yes, there are a few bad practitioners out there, just as there are in any profession (yet where's the outcry here about bad doctors)? But by an large teachers are simply hanging in there, doing the best that they can in the face of substandard facilities, uncaring parents, a hostile public and vindictive government. The blame for the mess that education is in doesn't lie with the teachers, it lies with you, the American public. It is time for you to step up and start funding education like you really mean the rhetoric that education is job one.

[Double T]

1. Get a screwdriver and some hardware and fix up what you've got. Make it a class project............

where everyone must participate. Paint and rollers wouldn't hurt either. Teachers always think more $$$$$$ is the solution to everything; it isn't. The rest of US are sick of the whining and bitching; do SOMETHING to help yourself and your students make a better environment for learning. When everyone is involved in improving the educational environment, everyone will appreciate it more. Fund raisers can pay for the materials. Jobs for ALL is job one; that's what pays the rest of the financial load for schools.

[madfloridian]

2. No No No Teachers do NOT think that. What an insulting thing to say.

I have not even fully read Madhound's post, but your statement about teachers caught my eye.

America will pay someday for the propaganda the corporations have used against teachers.

It is sorry time when teachers become scapegoats.

[Double T]

6. Teachers in my state, NY, have it all.

It is time to do MORE with less; it can be done if teachers will climb down off their pedestals and get inventive.

[stray cat]

10. NY does seem to be good - $100,000 per year, tenure plus guaranteed pension

[madfloridian]

17. That is just ridiculous.

It is just getting horrible here at DU about teachers.

It is a right wing tactic to spread teacher hate so they can get the schools privatized.

[Double T]

42. No teacher hate here. Teachers need to go above and beyond just like the rest of US subsidizing.....

their paychecks.

[MadHound]

43. Let's see here,

Going above and beyond, I suppose that would mean working eight, nine hours a day at work, doing another two-four hours, unpaid, at home, plus another eight or so on the weekends, paying, out of your own pocket, to advance your learning and mastery of your profession. Something that teachers do all the time.

Sorry, but the fact that you term it as "subsidizing their paychecks" simply shows where you're coming from, and it's not a good place. Teachers earn their paychecks, just like other public employees, yet I don't hear you going on about police, firefighters, or politicians, no, just teachers.

[roody]

67. Are you remodeling your place of work in your off hours?

[Godhumor]

25. There are 400,000 teachers in NY

Many work in inner city or low paying rural communities where there is no money to start with. NYC and surrounding areas pays more, but the cost of living is so high that many teachers commute from NJ due to not being able to afford to live in their district.

Every school district passes its own budget based on funds being made available. To say that the state of NY teachers have it made is pure exaggeration at the highest level.

[RayOfHope]

33. Yet this school isn't in your state. I know what school MadHound is talking about

my father was on the school board 30 years ago, and nearly my entire family has graduated from this particular district.

The district is poor. They had an unexpected expense of completely replacing the gas lines at the high school. The families that attend there are poor. Fundraisers don't do shit, and the certainly can't bring in the type of money to do major school repairs. There are also only so many times something can be repaired, and a new coat of paint can't solve overcrowding.

Plus, Missouri teachers are near the bottom of the US in terms of teacher pay. Your solution of just rolling up our sleeves and getting to work is fine, but its not a fix all for everything.

[Double T]

44. We need to do what we can with what we have to work with, THEN.......

keep doing some more.

[MadHound]

52. I guess you didn't get the point in my OP

This particular school, along with thousands like it across the country, HAVE been doing what they could, with what they have, for years and decades. And yes, they have done some more. This school has literally no more room for classroom trailers, what are they supposed to do now, start parking them by the side of the road? This school district doesn't have the budget to keep up with all the repairs that need to be done because the main building is so old that things are falling apart faster than they can be repaired. Why is this happening? Because a minority of anti-tax, anti-education yahoos like yourself keep voting down the money that is desperately needed to relief these problems.

[olegramps]

98. Why don't you take your anti-union attitute over to the Freeshits board.

[tbyg52]

46. Try saying that about other professions.

What is it about teachers that makes people think they should spend their own money and paint their own schools? Oh, maybe because they do. But they shouldn't have to. Teachers, I believe, are the *only* profession that gets treated this way.

[proud2BlibKansan]

71. Get inventive by holding fundraisers to build new school buildings?

:rofl:

[MadHound]

74. Oh this guy is priceless,

Sadly, he's also representative of anti-education yahoo minority that shot down my local school bond, again. If it was up to fools like him we'd still all be in one room schoolhouses with wood heat and hornbooks.

[Dorian Gray]

94. Off their pedestals?

Come on! My husband works at home on weekends every weekend for 8 hours, and he doesn't get home from school every night until after 6 pm. (That's after getting there at 7 am.)

He greatly appreciates his vacation time, including the week and a half he has off for Easter (Catholic School). But he's certainly not sitting on a pedestal!

[olegramps]

97. Give me a break.

Teachers in New York City teach in some of the worst areas of the city. Most have to commute because they can't afford to even rent a no-bedroom bachelor apartment. Rent for low end crap can run $1,400-$2,500 a month. You have to be a millionaire to rent in Manhattan.

[annabanana]

5. you need boots to have bootstraps. . . n/t

[Double T]

9. Then I would suggest you buy some boots.

[proud2BlibKansan]

73. And I would suggest you hold a fundraiser to buy him some boots

Put me down for $5. I would chip in more but I don't have it made since I don't teach in NY.

[Bigmack]

7. How about bake sales...

and silent auctions and rummage sales?

Yeah... that's an idea!

Let's just have all that shit for the military, and start funding the schools at some basic level.

[Double T]

11. It doesn't take a lot of material to improve a classroom environment.

But I'm sure we need an architect, engineer and interior decorator to help pick out the paint.

[madfloridian]

18. You are going on my list.

of people who are here to push buttons and hurt good people.

I don't have to see your words anymore.

[Double T]

45. Hurting good people??? Hardly.

Stepping up to take care of shortfalls. Absolutely. I don't have a list; I want to hear EVERYONE's ideas and opinions.

[tbyg52]

48. My opinion is

Tell that to doctors, lawyers, reporters, police, firefighters, mail carriers.....

[MadHound]

32. Really?

Do you think that students can whip up lab table tops that are impervious to acids, bases and a dozen other chemicals? Oh, and I suppose that students can build computers and centrifuges too? You're idea of what goes into a classroom is woefully limited and out of date.

[Double T]

47. DONATIONS! DONATIONS! DONATIONS!

Scratch and dent or canceled kitchen cabinets with granite counter tops might work just fine. Donations of computers are only for the asking. Imagination and invention are what is needed.

[MadHound]

51. Ah yes, here you are, advocating that our students have only the *second* best

Kitchen cabinets in the science lab, training the future of our information society on Commodore 64's, ah yes, I can see where you're priorities are:eyes:

Oh, and tell me this, just where can you find the "scratch and dent" centrifuges, glassware or bunsen burners, hmm? Not that you really would want to use them due to safeties sake.

Your notion of how to improve our school system is woefully lacking. Hopefully you're not in any sort of position to carry out your "vision"

[Double T]

64. Wages are stagnant, Jobs are in decline, more than 50% of the population........

is living paycheck to paycheck. Yet ONLY the BEST will be acceptable to you. Let's buy the best and just add it to the debt and deficit. No wonder we are where we are. Modern, state of the art equipment is available through donations.

[MadHound]

69. Sure it is, in quantities large enough to fulfill all the schools' needs in this country?

No, sorry, nowhere near that. And again, when it comes to specialty items, most of it's very rare.

Oh, one other problem in tough economic times, a serious decline in charity. Whoopsy.

[proud2BlibKansan]

76. Excuse me for believing our kids are worthy of the best

Silly me. :eyes:

[Double T]

111. How are you going to pay for the best when WE can no longer even afford the minimum.

Reality check.

[proud2BlibKansan]

112. Reduce the bloated military budget

Another reality check.

[RayOfHope]

34. If only you cared about your fellow citizens as much as your sig line says you care about pets.

[Double T]

65. The pets aren't telling US to give them more $$$$$ we don't have.

The pets are smarter than that!

[Goblinmonger]

58. Seriously, man, my time is full

with trying to do the best job possible teaching my subject matter and to deal with the emotional needs of my students and now you want to toss Home Makeover on my plate, too. Plate's pretty full, Homes.

[MadHound]

59. No, no, no, you don't get it

Double T doesn't want you to remodel your school and teach, he wants you remodel your school instead of teaching. Don't let those little rug rats just sit there mindlessly sucking up knowledge and stuff, no! Put the little buggers to work instead and save the taxpayers some bucks!

[Goblinmonger]

60. Ahhhh

Instead of reading "Tintern Abbey" we could paint a forest scene on the wall. Got it. That should work.

Some people just amaze me.

[MadHound]

61. And don't forget blowing glassware for the science lab you're constructing

Remind the kids not to inhale.

Yeah, some people just amaze me too. For a profession and field that is supposed to be one of this country's most valued, education continues to get the short end of the stick. Instead we get "creative" suggestions like those mentioned above.

[Hannah Bell]

91. if the problem is rotten foundation, leaking roof, bad water system,

dead boiler, you sure as hell need more than a bunch of 6th-graders with paint brushes.

[mopinko]

14. did you forget this?

:sarcasm:

[RubyDuby in GA]

21. And who is going to pay for the screwdrivers and hardware and paint and rollers?

Would that be the same teachers that now have to buy their own supplies for their classrooms because the school systems no longer carries out its most basic functions? Would those endless pockets come from the very teachers that are continually paid a ridiculously low amount to do what is arguably one of the most important professions in our country?

Fundraisers? hahahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Who would attend these fundraisers? The parents that are trying to keep the house from being repossessed? The parents who worry that the new pair of shoes that Jr. desperately needs because he has outgrown the old ones will cut into the small food budget.

I expect this kind of an asshattery statement from the anti-education wingnuts, but not here.

[Double T]

49. Donations by contractors, paint supply stores, Home Depot, Lowe's, etc.

ASK for what you want and someone will likely provide it.

[MadHound]

53. The trouble is, first of all there isn't anybody who will donate enough material to build a school

Secondly, in these tough economic times, donations are down across the board. So much for that idea:eyes:

[Double T]

55. YOU didn't even ask, YOU just assume the answer is no.

[MadHound]

57. You don't think that this hasn't been tried?

You don't think that administrators haven't tried to get donations? You have no clue! Besides, it isn't like Lowes is going to carrying spare computers that they're willing to part with, or centrifuges, or lab grade glassware, or any of the other myriad of things that you suggest will come flowing our way via donations:eyes:

And again, let me ask you this, what kind of message does this send to the students, that their education is so unimportant that it has to live off of charity rather than being supported by all members of the community?

[proud2BlibKansan]

79. We started a fundraiser to build a playground

It costs $100,000.

I think we raised $1000 in one year.

At that rate our kids will have a new playground in 2109.

But you have inspired me. I am going to go garage sale shopping this weekend. A used swingset with a broken slide is better than none!

[AwakeAtLast]

62. Is that how your place of employment was built?

By begging?

Why should I have to go around begging for a decent place to work?

Why should our children have to beg parents for nickels and dimes?

Is this also how you would like our police stations, hospitals, and fire stations to be built?

Amazing.

[proud2BlibKansan]

75. Have you ever even DONE any fundraising?

Obviously not since you seem to think it is something we can do in the spare time we don't have.

Your repulsive and ignorant crap is typical of the haters in the GOP who are destroying our public schools.

[Godhumor]

82. You realize schools, or even teachers who want donations for an after-school club, generally have to

apply for non-profit status, right? Sure you might get some people helping out at bake sales or whatever else, but actual companies making actual donations generally require non-profit status for tax and record keeping purposes. It makes things very frustrating for individual teachers looking to gain access to equipment.

Again, speaking from personal experience. I have "gotten creative" when dealing with underfunded programs or rooms--it doesn't work nearly as easily as you think.

[Godhumor]

22. Make it a class project? That would violate child labor laws ten ways from Sunday

Make it a class project? Schools almost universally will not toy with child labor law by having them involved in maintenance or upkeep of school grounds.

[Obamanaut]

23. And it would detract from the already limited time available for any

individual attention to whatever lessons are being set aside for the project.

[Double T]

50. The children aren't getting paid. Spare me.

What's the difference between painting a wall and painting on construction paper?

[MadHound]

72. Ah, so they're slave labor instead!

Your "solution" just keeps getting better and better. And frankly if you don't realize the difference between painting with a latex based paint using either a brush or a roller and painting on paper with tempra or water colors, then you're simply a bigger idiot than I previously thought you were.

[Godhumor]

77. I'm speaking from experience here

Schools will not organize students to do maintenance of school grounds.

[proud2BlibKansan]

81. Yeah to hell with those damn test scores

Boys and girls, we won't be learning to read today. We need to paint the school. :rofl: You are too fucking much.

[olegramps]

101. I hope that someone adopts you along with your pets.

It is obvious that you need care.

[MadHound]

29. Oh, yeah, like middle school students need to be working the construction trades

Didn't we outlaw child labor a while back?

Oh, and do you honestly think that a bunch of kids can build all the computers needed, all the smart boards needed, a fully functioning science lab, complete with the specialized equipment.

Hate to tell you this, but your notion of what goes into a fully functioning school is horribly outdated. You sound like many of the right wing idiots who write into my local school, thinking that students can get by with personal chalkboards and a one room school house.

And what exactly would the gets learn from building their own facilities? Oh, yeah, that the adults in the community are cheap ass bastards who don't want to fund their own kids' education. What a fine lesson that is:eyes:

[roody]

66. There may be some liability issues with teachers and students

doing the repairs. You know teachers have to spend every minute on academic task, so this will be in their spare time.

[proud2BlibKansan]

70. Did you even bother to read the OP?

Cause surely you aren't so dumb that you think all that is needed to fix this school is a fundraiser.

Good grief.

[kaygore]

85. The problem with many schools is NOT simply a paint job

current structures. Again, paint and a few nails will not address this.

I am saddened at the attitude of many DUers such as yourself regarding teachers. You must have had some very bad experiences as a student.

When post offices are in disrepair, I don't hear people suggesting that the post people spend their off hours fixing the infrastructure. I could cite other similar examples. Why then do we target teachers. Teachers are the most powerless people in the educational process.

[LooseWilly]

88. Get a screwdriver and hardware and... WTF??

... can you say "Lawsuit"?? Can you say "illegal child labor"? Are you out of your mind??? Indentured servitude for the "darling angels" of all those taxpayers?? The entire school district would be bankrupted just by the legal defense fees...

This isn't the 30s. You can't do something that hasn't gone through the bureaucratic process, been vetted against legislative fine print, and been run past the lawyers...

[eridani]

89. Money is certainly the solution to the problem of how to buy paint and hardware

Also to the far more expensive underlying structural problems.

[ulysses]

107. does your job require that you do the building maintenance?

Unless you actually work *on the maintenance crew*, I suspect it doesn't.

[earthside]

3. It is too bad.

This sentence:

"While Obama and Duncan continue to work up plans for more testing and merit pay, sixteen billion dollars slated for new school construction was cut out of the stimulus bill in favor of more tax cuts ..."

More standardized testing and merit pay imply that teachers are not up to the job, that they are not being accountable -- that we have to ride them continuously if we are going to get good results out of them.

The vast, vast majority of teachers are doing great work, yet this whole 'No Child Left Behind' accountability mind-set is turning them into bureaucrats instead of TEACHERS. Clearly the actual problem is with educrat-type administrators and the politicians who view education as just another 'wedge' issue -- that includes liberal and conservative politicians!

Let teachers teach should be the motto ... and then children will learn.

[Hannah Bell]

92. no child left behind is explicitly designed to defund *every* school & label it a * failing* school.

& obama's keeping that piece of trash legislation.

[rurallib]

4. Many states sold state lotteries to the public saying proceeds would

be earmarked for education. Sadly, a corresponding amount was cut from the general budget for education and the sum increase for most schools was 0.
And then republicans want vouchers so they can siphon off what little state money there is for their buddies.
My daughter is a teacher. She is in a pretty good district, but there is till much needed for her to totally do her job.

[mopinko]

15. they did that in illinois, as well.

our state constitution says that the state will provide "the majority" of the funding for the common schools. does that sound like it should be 50% +1? it went all the way to the supreme court, and it was decided that "the majority" really just meant more than anyone else. so, if there are city funds, and county funds, or school taxes, that the state just has to be the biggest of those pots. amazingly stupid.

[MadHound]

30. Yep, that's what they did here in Missouri,

Sold the lotto saying that the proceeds would go to education, didn't tell the voters that they would cut the education budget by the corresponding amount. Now that lotto proceeds are going down, so is the education budget.

[noamnety]

8. I know we disagree on local funding of schools

When local money is used for bond issues, the result is still a two-tiered system, with communities that have a tax base being able to better fund the schools, and communities in poverty-stricken areas being stuck unable to even maintain the overcrowded buildings they have (even when the roofs are caving in, which is the case in some Detroit schools).

I'm in favor of all school funding coming from state and federal dollars on principle, which pressures the richer communities to push law makers to adequately fund ALL schools, not just their local ones. Anything less contributes to the increasing divide.

[mopinko]

16. exactly correct

the divide here in illinois is huge. in chicago, per pupil is about $6k. we have rich suburbs around here where it is $15k. and poor ones where it is $2-3k. in a perfect world that would be exactly reversed.

[MadHound]

35. Actually in many ways I agree with that notion

I'm sick and tired of educational funding being held hostage by a minority of anti-child, anti-education, anti-tax yahoos. It is ruining our education system and strangling school finance. I'm also sick of having anti-education and RW fundy yahoos get elected to school board in order to push their anti-education, anti-science, anti-intellectual agendas. Frankly I think that if you don't have an education degree, you can't be on the school board.

What other profession allows non-professionals decide funding and planning issues? None!

However I don't know if state or federal based funding would be any better. Education would just become a bigger football for them to kick around.

[noamnety]

36. I think it would help.

If the kids in Grosse Pointe had to deal with the same school conditions that the kids in Detroit had to deal with, there'd be some serious priority shifting in government spending.

Instead, we have those local communities putting their effort into making their own schools better and they ignore the Detroit situation (the I-got-mine syndrome).

The inevitable result is that people in Detroit start looking to charters because they know they are getting half the education that the Grosse Pointe kids are getting, if that.

Then the Grosse Pointe people start complaining that the charter folks in Detroit are "elitest" and "too good for public school."

Well, they wouldn't be too good for the schools the Grosse Pointe kids are able to attend.

Whether or not you agree with charters, I'm hoping you can see how local bonds to fund local schools (while ignoring others) is part of the reason the charters are springing up. People keep wanting to address the symptom (those other people in other neighborhoods looking for acceptable schools if none exist), but they aren't willing to address the cause, which is inequitable funding. That would risk affecting their own kids' educational privilege. (See post 27 - some kids are more deserving of being at the good school than other kids.)

Anyone pushing for local funds to raise their school's funding above the state/federal level is fighting for a two-tiered system in which they-get-theirs. When people on are struggling to get the most educational privileges for their own kids, without regard for equity, they lose moral standing if they are complaining about anyone else who is doing the same.

[madmom]

12. What rurallib said is true. Ohio being one that reduced from general funds what went to schools ...

because of the lottery. The district next to mine just got a brand new elementary school. They had 4 local neighborhood schools, now they have combined them into one big district school. They said the other buildings were not suitable, to old,needed to much repair etc., but they have been taken over by parochial schools. Now do parochial schools have a different standard as to what is suitable? Now our district is wanting to "keep up with the Jones". I know I pay high property tax for this area and I pay a school tax. So what am I supposed to use to pay for health care and food. Luckily my car is paid for and so is my house otherwise I wouldn't be able to pay for anything else. My SO and I are both retired and live on a fixed income.Both my kids went to our local school and I've been there many, may times and I do not see where there is a need for a new one.

[demmiblue]

24. Sometimes it is not all about keeping up with the Jones'.

I talked to a family that lives in a school district that decided to build a new school as opposed to renovating an old school. Believe it or not, it would have cost more money to renovate the old school than it would have cost to build a new one.

Regarding the district next to you... building the one school may very well have been be more cost effective than running and maintaining the four schools that already existed. Personally, I don't like the idea of consolidating schools, but some districts have no other option. I would rather see smaller schools that are truly a part of their community. Sadly, funding is a huge issue. Also, just because you or I do not see anything wrong with a school doesn't mean that there are not serious building problems with that school. And, yes, I would think that parochial schools have different standards.

[madmom]

27. I think my biggest problem with our district wanting to build a new school is,

we have a GM plant in our school district. A few years back their taxes were re-evaluated and significantly lowered, even though there have been many improvements. We were asked to take on additional taxes to keep our school district rating above all the others in the area, we agreed to do this. Now, we have open enrollment, from other districts that have lower property tax, and they want us to fund a new school while they don't have to pay any more.We are taking their kids, and they are not bearing any of the expense.I moved to this district because I wanted my kids to go to this school, I pay the taxes, they just write new rules and skip out on paying what's due.:shrug:

[sammytko]

38. parents are fighting that same issue in San antonio

one district wants to consolidate schools. Build newer ones instead of trying to re-hab the ones built in the 30s - more expensive. but the parents want their kids to go to the schools they went to yadda yadda....

[mopinko]

13. that ain't the way arne did it here. and afaik, arne doesn't want more testing

so much as he wants the testing that is done to follow a child from year to year, instead of being just aggregated together for the school. (:hide: which would make it easier to spot bad teachers.)

but arne duncan was part of a huge effort, along with mayor daley, and his first superintendent, paul valles, that repaired and replaced aging schools in chicago. most of our schools were in pretty bad shape when daley got control over the schools. (after decades of mayors passing the buck, putting school boards and committees between themselves and the schools.) new schools and new additions to schools are everywhere now. i keep saying that i want to take the time to do a photo essay of all the new buildings that have been built.
just in my neighborhood, which has quite a reputation for being googoo types, (good government) and actually has one of the few alderman that doesn't rubber stamp whatever the mayor wants, we have one entirely new school, one school was split into 2 campuses, one of which was brand new, and shared a campus with a brand new libraray, two schools that got a new wing that doubled the size of the school, and (:hide:) one math and science charter. there is also a college prep/math and science selective enrollment high school in our region, something that did not really exist before. one of these was built for each of the 5 regions in the city.

'course, we have also been building new libraries, parks, police and fire stations, plus have an aggressive program of sewer replacements. we were riding quite the real estate bubble here. now we are trying to sell off anything we can to fill the budget hole. but....

[jazzjunkysue]

19. I have the same problem in ultra rich Westchester, north of NYC.

This is one of the richest counties in the nation, just 35 minutes north of Herald square. And we've got the same overcrowding, leaking roofs, and a tax pac that holds the rest of the town hostage.

Our real problem is that the parents who have kids in school don't show up to vote. But all the no votes show up, bet your house on it.

Personally, when my daughter went to college, I sold and left, to escape the high taxes. I gave the house over to a young family with kids to educate.

I know many people can't afford to move, but, you also can't afford to have an angry, uneducated population, either.

Someone's got to teach these kids how to live and vote responsibly.

I appreciate how Obama keeps reminding everyone of their responsibility to the future.

[vssmith]

20. Business wants workers that know how to use computers

An employer wants a new worker to know how to use MS Word, Excel etc. If schools are going to teach that they need modern computers and software and a lab. That costs money. It is not a fixer-up project.

[AngryAmish]

26. Why can't the teachers campaign for the bond issue?

That used to happen all the time when I lived in the suburbs.

In fact the local teacher's union was the most powerful source of local power.

[MadHound]

31. I don't know about where you live,

While it may not be a formal rule here, it certainly is an unwritten one. If you campaign for school bond issues, on either side, you're putting your job on the line. In fact if you get involved in politics in any sort of public matter, even writing a letter to the editor, you're putting your job at risk. Teachers are supposed to vote, write their reps and that's all, unless they want to forego their teaching career.

[Robb]

40. A dear, dear friend of mine is a teacher who wanted to run for school board

...in a small rural community. It's OK to do in Colorado, but he was told by his superintendent it would be a bad career move.

So he ran for town council instead. And won.

...He was non-renewed about two weeks after. :(

[JitterbugPerfume]

28. I get sick and tired of the blame the teacher mantra

I have known more than a few very dedicated teachers in my lifetime.

The family has a responsibility for their childrens education . Turn off the TV and video games and for the love of god TALK to your kids .Give them some pride.

On a larger scale , society as a whole should value education more. Education should be a lifelong endeavor because learning can give satisfaction and enrichment of life that is impossible to find elsewhere .

Teachers deserve our respect , and they deserve to be paid according to what other professionals are paid.

[YvonneCa]

37. GREAT post. I agree it is time to stop 'scapegoating' teachers...

...and start fixing our public schools. I value our public schools highly and believe teachers (not just unions...TEACHERS) must have a voice in making them work.

Thank you for your words...from a public school teacher who also knows many, dedicated, hard-working teachers.

[MadHound]

39. You're welcome

This is something that has bothered me my whole life since I come from parents who were teachers. However it's now starting to bother me more since in my middle age I myself have decided to go into teaching(right now I'm in school getting my education degree). Thus, now that's this issue is becoming increasingly personal, I'm getting increasingly outraged.

[tonysam]

41. Yep. It Isn't Teachers Who are the Problem Generally. Corrupt Administrators

are rampant in public education, and if teachers speak out or refuse to carry out illegal requests, they are fired and ruined.

Don't be fooled by "tenure": It is EXTREMELY easy to fire teachers, and once fired, they find it difficult if not impossible to work for other public school districts. "Tenure" allows districts, meaning unscrupulous principals, to start compiling "cases" against those who are targeted, as I was (at 54 I was too old), and because they have unlimited amounts of money, can absolutely destroy teachers.

It has nothing to do with "higher standards" or getting rid of "incompetents." It has to do with the extreme office politics that goes on.

Meanwhile, it is almost IMPOSSIBLE to fire administrators.

[BlooInBloo]

54. "They're powerless" - I agree; that's why I want largely new ones.

[MadHound]

56. You're wanting to toss out all those good teachers, all that experieince out the door

Because they are a politically powerless entity? Really now:wtf: First of all, replacing all those teachers would be damn tough, replacing all that experience impossible, and once you did, the new teachers would be in the same political position, unable to advocate for their profession in the political arena. So what's there to gain by throwing out all the teachers?

[BlooInBloo]

63. :) I don't agree with your "few bad apples" theory.

[MadHound]

68. Then frankly you need to back your ass up with some facts,

Because your notion that the teaching profession is rotten through and through simply isn't born out, either in the classroom, or in peer reviewed studies. So if you've got something to back your opinion up with, show it. Otherwise you're just another anti-education, anti-teacher yahoo creating more obstacles for education.

[Godhumor]

84. How can you possibly say that with a "Union Yes" avatar?

That just doesn't jibe. It's like saying I largely want new auto workers, because a Ford I bought broke down.

[BlooInBloo]

90. It jibes just fine. It's just difficult getting anything remotely abstract across to education major

s.

[Hannah Bell]

93. and that little nasty remark is why the democrats are dead meat & why more & more people say "not a

dime's worth of difference" between the parties.

[ulysses]

108. don't get too riled up by bloo.

There's no substantive discussion to be had there on this topic. He just likes to fling shit and watch people get upset.

[Hannah Bell]

109. my impression was this person is a party activist.

[ulysses]

110. that may be.

I don't know. What you've seen in this thread is generally the tone and extent of his contributions to education threads, though.

[Godhumor]

96. In my state alone there are 400,000 teachers

How can you possibly extrapolate your experiences across the entire spectrum of educators?

[blitzen]

78. I completely agree with everyting you say! n/t

[Norquist Nemesis]

80. Out of curiosity, have you looked into the salaries of the Administrators?

Something I never seem to hear about is the accountability for the superintendents, principals, and various highly paid administration assignments. Where was the Superintendent and principals during these bond elections? Were they fighting for the kids or just looking for more ways to cut? Have their salaries been frozen or cut? What have they been doing to improve the learning environment?

Or are they just complaining about the teachers' union and refusing to facilitate the needs of the educational organization.

I just seems to me that "teachers" (broad brush) are taking all of the blame while the top gets barely a notice.

[proud2BlibKansan]

83. Excellent OP, my friend!

:applause:

[LooseWilly]

86. It's like blaming a UPS driver for not getting the packages through

... when the company won't do any maintenance on the vehicle.

[frustrated_lefty]

87. what nonsense.

[MadHound]

95. And what, exactly, is nonsensical about it

After all, all that I say is true. Our school system IS being driven into the ground because funding depends on getting a super majority of voters. Thus, a minority of anti-education yahoos can hold education hostage. The Obama administration IS accelerating the drive towards a two tier education system, since they are promoting more testing, merit pay, charter schools, and "reforming" NCLB. Teachers ARE the convenient scapegoat when students do poorly, and yet these students do poorly for a number of reasons completely unrelated to the teachers. Do you think that you could obtain a decent education when your school is overcrowded, when the holes in the wall keep you too cold to concentrate, when you haven't but one meal (that morning's free school breakfast) for the past twenty four hours, do you honestly think that you could learn? Yet these are all things that teachers have no control of.

So what, exactly, is so nonsensical about my post? Or are you simply another anti-education yahoo who doesn't want to face the truth of the matter, that the US public talks a good education game, but when it comes to actually doing something, we generally suck.

[NNN0LHI]

99. Do you belong to a teachers union MadHound?

The reason I ask is I have noticed from past posts of yours that you buy your cars from any company that is not union like Honda and other anti-union automakers.

Just curious about this.

Don

[MadHound]

102. Yes, actually I do,

Not to mention that in previous non-teaching jobs I've unionized two plants myself. Now do you really want to hijack my thread on some conversation about union hypocrisy or can we save it for the next auto thread?

[NNN0LHI]

103. Which two plants did you unionize by yourself?

[MadHound]

104. Two MR/DD training centers that I worked at.

Lost my job for successfully unionizing one, damn near lost my job sucessfully organizing the other. Why?

[NNN0LHI]

105. What was the names of these plants? Or training centers?

[MadHound]

106. Excuse me, but giving you that information,

And posting it here would make it entirely too easy for you or anybody else out there to track me down in real life, and frankly I don't need that kind of hassle.

Do you have a point to make with this game of twenty questions? If so, make it and move on.

[dysfunctional press]

100. i blame the parents by FAR.

as for the voters- seniors vote. generally in larger numbers. and they generally HATE tax increases of ANY kind.
we had elections tuesday, and a $170million bond-issue for the local community college was defeated.
had all the students who were eligible to vote showed up and voted- it probably would have passed easily.